Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 356 › Conversation 356-001
Nixon, White & Brock on 1972 Presidential Campaign and Cabinet Reorganization
Monday, September 18, 1972 · 5:35 PM–6:55 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 16 min
AI Summary
President Nixon met with Theodore H. White, William Brock, and Kenneth Rietz to discuss the administration's political image, domestic policy achievements, and strategy for a potential second term. The participants analyzed how to effectively convey the President's record on issues like China, foreign policy, and drug control to the public. Additionally, Nixon and H.R. Haldeman strategized a major post-election Cabinet reorganization, emphasizing the need to replace existing secretaries with loyal agents who would strictly implement White House policy and control their respective departments.
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Transcript (AI-generated)
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These are .
Oh, you've seen much of this.
All right.
And India, Cambodia.
There's a Greek tourist in the 13th century.
And this is where I grew up.
And that was Eisenhower, yes.
I can't believe you know, because I don't know if I'm going to get back to you.
We'll see you.
We'll see you at 5 o'clock.
Well, I'm sure you're going to be glad.
I am.
Sit down.
I'm here.
Paul, I'm in here.
Mr. Haldeman.
Yes, sir.
Let me get this table over here.
Underlay a plot.
Yes, sir.
All right.
Before we... All right.
You've got your watch.
Yeah.
That's not going to save anything.
Which is that I want?
It's not.
But a wonderful guy.
Thank you.
What I would do is I would
It's a nice thing to wear sometimes for eating.
You can see it's gold and you can wear it for, you know, a tuxedo or something.
Bring them with a coffee or tea or iced tea or iced coffee or a Coca-Cola or a Pepsi.
I love them.
I guess I have a, I just have a hot tea just in case.
Any problem?
Any problem with the party?
No problem.
Bill Brock, he's such an honest guy.
Rather, to me, rather enlightening than he would have said it.
I know that he's a great man.
He's a brother of mine.
He's a great man.
He's a great man.
He's a great man.
He's a great man.
He's a great man.
He's a great man.
He's a great man.
I think the China thing was the one thing that seemed proper at all.
No question.
Which is going to show you why it's so important for us to keep this happening up and around the center.
That's right.
It was.
It wasn't apparent in the polls.
No, but it happened in people's minds.
It wasn't a front-level thing.
It happened that we sensed them coming back, and then came AA, and then came Russia, and whap, it just started.
It's very different this year than before.
You know, you want to pick on them.
And they've been characterized as, they've tried, they've been very successful in trying to make people think that they've seen you, you know.
In fact, that's what they've done in television.
That was it.
Well, it sure was.
There's nothing powdery about it.
Well, but you know you've got some hope.
You've got some people like that who are kind of sure that this guy in some ways reaches this.
Because they all are.
They're all treated with violence and reaches too.
But that's all right.
So you can't become an advocate of racism.
You'll have all hell broke loose.
If we can get some guns like that, maybe we can.
That's what we've got to do, though.
We've got to get somebody to say you're responsible.
Buy your plan, not get it done.
And then expect results.
The mistake we made is we said last time we had to do it in the White House, and we can't do it.
People won't take it from the White House.
You know, I think one of the...
I'd like to have a little bit of a
Our week is going, but what we're pushing is this drug stuff and permissiveness.
So let's see if we can tie something to that.
Does that mean that we can bring some drugs?
We'll have some come up on Wednesday.
I think you've got to spend a little time with them.
They can come up.
Let them come up and have a swim.
or you don't think it's pretty sure before we know it
And I just don't want this to slide into that.
When I wrote, he was asking for guidance on that.
He is, one of the things that worries me is that everybody's saying, you know, we've got the campaign, and November 7th, and then we'll take a vacation and stuff.
I can see that this period has been less critical by the way than the period afterwards now.
Well, yeah.
For a few people, at least, I think you're going to have to really get some...
But I think we ought to start thinking about post-election.
Exactly.
You know, what do we do on the next morning?
Maybe that's the time you do.
Maybe you have a dramatic announcement.
Maybe you call a cabinet meeting.
They all resign.
You thank them all very much.
You give them all cold watches.
And that sets the tone.
Then everybody else resigns.
come out of the, how do you reappoint them?
If you want to.
You move into different jobs in most cases, which I think you ought to do anyway.
I don't think very many ought to stay where they are.
I agree.
Even in the second level types, where we've got really good people.
Well, I mean, the big one is, I don't know about you, but there's going to be exceptions.
I don't know.
That's what you're on, because it requires some talent.
I don't know whether, but I'm not sure.
Maybe Schultz, you look at this, I think you want to view the state as an era that you don't want to hold in cap.
You want, you've got to stay, whatever, you've got to take the heart of the people that you don't want, get them the hell out.
a guy like John Boeke is a nice guy and all that.
You've got to get, I think you've got to get in on it.
Boeke's got to go.
Rodney's got to go.
And of course, Laird has to go.
Rogers has to go.
I think the money is going to go.
Don't you?
I think so.
I think he wants to.
I don't think he's got any problem with that.
No, Mark?
I think they both ought to know.
Don't you?
Certainly, I think Peterson showed up.
I didn't have anything to do with it.
I'm sorry.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Everybody you bring in, they've got to be voting back to the opposite of what everybody was voting for before.
They're not going to have the free hand to run their own department.
Hire everybody they want.
They are your agents.
They're going to be working with you, with your staff.
Out of the places that you run, they're going to be staffed with people.
We've got some good people in mind.
We've been around here for four years and we know the problems now.
We've got to
We've got to follow that Harlow theory of getting our guy in those five key spots in every department, every agency.
That's where we can use some of Reese's guns.
Take some of these 40-year-old, 35-year-old lawyers.
We've got our public information type guys and all that.
Put them in and make them a people who are playing our game.
Your job is to build your department.
Your job is to control your department.
The main thrust of our program is that if you cut back about 80% of what your department is, if you cut back 40%, if you cut back 30%, it's a different kind of charge, whether you can or you can't.
go right out and check on it.
There must be ways to do it.
There just must be ways to do it.
What you do is you change the objectives.
I know.
That's the thing we've got to get.
We've got to get early, really, equipment on this.
You also want to remember, Mr. Torrenhall's memory is not as small as that.
I mean, he doesn't take his turn to do this.
I should have won.
I really should have won.
Yes.
No, I shouldn't have three.
It also seems to feel that they are not going to work on this one issue.
I think they are, and I've worked on it.
I've worked on it.
I've worked on it.
I've worked on it.
I've worked on it.
I've worked on it.
Okay.
Okay.
Thank you.
NARA Description
On September 18, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Theodore H. White, William Brock, Oliver F. ("Ollie") Atkins, Kenneth C. Rietz, White House photographer, and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:35 pm to 6:55 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 356-001 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 356-1
Date: September 18, 1972
Time: 5:34 pm - 6:55 pm
Location: Executive Office Building
The President met with Theodore H. White, William E. Brock, III, and Kenneth C. Rietz; the
White House photographer [Oliver F. (“Ollie”) Atkins] was present at the beginning of the
meeting.
Introductions
Presidential gifts in the Executive Office Building [EOB] office
-Vietnam
-India
-Cambodia
-Afghanistan
Dwight D. Eisenhower’s desk
Atkins [?] left at an unknown time before 6:55 pm.
Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 5:34 pm.
The President’s schedule
-H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
Sanchez left at an unknown time before 6:55 pm.
Atkins [?] entered at an unknown time after 5:34 pm.
Wristwatch
[Photograph session]
Wristwatch
-Presidential seal
-Attire
Refreshments
Haldeman entered at an unknown time after 5:34 pm.
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 1h 4m 15s ]
Brock et al., except Haldeman, left at 6:35 pm.
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
*****************************************************************
White
-The President’s domestic policies
Brock
-The President’s view
Public relations
-Domestic policies
-Environment
-Revenue sharing
-Welfare reform
-Trip to the People's Republic of China [PRC]
-Henry A. Kissinger announcement
-Poll
-The President's foreign policies
-May 8, 1972 decision
-Soviet Union
The President’s schedule
-Rietz
Government reorganization
-Cabinet officers
-Haldeman’s view
-Relationship with White House
-Central Intelligence Agency [CIA]
-Camp David
-John D. Ehrlichman’s role
-Drug abuse, permissiveness
-The President's schedule
-Meetings
-Programs
-Policies for future
-Haldeman’s view
*****************************************************************
BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 1m 40s ]
END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
*****************************************************************
Cabinet
-Post-election
-Announcement of meeting
-Resignation of Cabinet
-Timing
-Gifts
-Different jobs
-George P. Shultz
-Treasury Department
-John A. Volpe
-George W. Romney
-Melvin R. Laird
-William P. Rogers
-Richard G. Kleindienst
-Rogers C.B. Morton
-Peter G. Peterson
-New members
-Haldeman’s view
-Opposites of previous members
-Previous four years experience
-Bryce N. Harlow's thesis
-White House role
-Staffing
-Rietz
-Various types of career people
-Cabinet officers’ role
-Previous programs
-Laird
-Defense budget
-Ehrlichman
-National Security Council [NSC]
-Kissinger
-Staff
-Defense and State Departments
-Various employment positions
-Waste
The President’s schedule
-Congressional relations
Charles W. Colson
-Issue
Haldeman left at 6:55 pm.Also recorded on September 18, 1972
- 781-030 4:19 PM · 8 min — President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House from 4:19 pm to 4:25 pm.
- 781-031 4:30 PM · 3 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, and Stephen B. Bull met in the Oval Office of the White House at 4:30 pm.
- 781-032 4:31 PM · 27 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Theodore H. White, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:31 pm and 5:30 pm.
- 782-001 4:31 PM · 9 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Theodore H. White, Stephen B. Bull, and Manolo Sanchez met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 4:31 pm and 5:30 pm.
- 782-002 5:30 PM · 26 sec — United States Secret Service agents and unknown person(s) met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:30 pm and 11:59 pm.
- 356-002 6:56 PM · 57 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 6:56 pm to 6:57 pm.
- 356-003 6:57 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander P. Butterfield met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 6:57 pm to 6:58 pm.
- 356-004 6:58 PM · 7 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 6:58 pm and 7:14 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 356-001, September 18, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/356-001 (accessed October 1, 2026).