{"conversationCode":"360-005","tapeNumber":360,"conversationNumber":5,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-360-005","startDateTime":"1972-09-08T18:13:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-09-08T19:01:00.000Z","startDate":"8-Sep-1972","startTime":"2:13 PM","endDate":"8-Sep-1972","endTime":"3:01 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.; Bull, Stephen B.;","description":"On September 8, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:13 pm to 3:01 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 360-005 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 360-5\n\nDate: September 8, 1972\nTime: 2:13 pm - 3:01 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\n                                         (rev. Oct-06)\n\nThe President met with Charles W. Colson.\n\n         The President's schedule\n          -Meeting with Cabinet and Republican Congressional leaders, September 12, 1972\n          -H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman\n          -Poll figures\n          -George P. Shultz\n          -Vietnam War\n          -Tone\n          -Economic issue\n\n         Michael J. Mansfield’s possible trip to the People’s Republic of China [PRC]\n          -Henry A. Kissinger's conversation with Mansfield\n          -Administration position\n          -Administration statements\n                   -Colson’s view\n                       -Lyndon B. Johnson\n                       -Demonstrators\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 3m 10s     ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n         Vietnam War\n          -Leak\n                  -William J. Porter\n                  -Colson’s efforts\n                  -Joseph W. Alsop\n                  -Abram Chayes\n\n                                          (rev. Oct-06)\n\n                        -Possible statement\n                    -Robert J. Dole\n\n          Economic issues\n            -Herbert Stein speech\n                     -Network coverage\n            -Food prices\n                     -Earl L. Butz\n          -Presentation\n            -Peter G. Peterson\n                     -New York City\n                     -Thomas R. Shepherd, Jr.\n            -Herbert G. Klein\n            -Robert H. Finch\n            -Richard A. Moore\n          -McGovern’s policies\n            -Taxes and spending\n            -Lifestyle\n            -Welfare proposal\n                     -Congress\n                     -Income levels\n                     -Administration response\n                         -The president’s instructions\n            -Richard Dougherty’s staement\n\nStephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 2:13 pm.\n\n          The President's schedule\n           -Camp David\n           -Folder\n           -Forthcoming meeting\n                    -Maurice H. Stans\n\nBull left at an unknown time before 3:01 pm.\n\n          Issues\n            -John G. Tower\n            -Charles H. Percy\n            -Polls\n            -Vietnam War\n                    -Percy\n\n                             (rev. Oct-06)\n\n               -McGovern\n          -Support by American people\n          -Poll\n               -Louis P. Harris profile\n          -The President's May 8, 1972 decision to mine Haiphong\n           harbor\n               -The president’s view\n-Watergate\n -The President’s view\n -1701 Pennsylvania Avenue\n          -Surveillance\n               -Leak\n -Dole’s forthcoming press conference\n          -Announcement\n          -Speechwriters\n               -The President’s instructions to Colson\n                   -“Cover-up” charge\n          -Patrick J. Buchanan\n               -Style\n\nUS-Soviet Union grain deal\n -Announcement\n          -Butz\n               -Forthcoming press conference\n          -McGovern\n          -1964\n               -George Meany\n -Public relations\n          -McGovern\n -Butz\n          -Colson’s view\n          -The President’s view\n          -Possible comments on Clarence D. Palmby\n\nJames R. (“Jimmy”) Hoffa\n  -Planned trip to Hanoi\n          -Passport\n          -[William L. Taub]\n          -Colson’s recent telephone conversation with Frank E. Fitzsimmons\n          -William P. Rogers’s recent telephone calls to Meany and Fitzsimmons\n\n                             (rev. Oct-06)\n\n1972 campaign finances\n -McGovern\n         -Henry Kimmelman\n              -The President’s view\n -John B. Connally\n -Alleged violations\n         -Maurice Stans\n         -Media\n              -John Ehrlichman’s conversation with the President\n              -Butz\n         -Investigation\n              -General Accounting Office [GAO]\n              -International Telephone and Telegraph [ITT]\n\n1972 New Hampshire campaign\n -Vietnam War\n         -Wesley Powell\n             -Possible White House visit\n             -Thomas J. McIntyre\n -Louis C. Wyman\n -Thomas J. McIntyre\n -McGovern\n -Wyman\n         -William Loeb\n -McIntyre\n         -McGovern\n -Loeb\n\nEdward M. Kennedy\n -Amanda Burden\n -Source of information\n -Chappaquiddick\n -R. Sargent Shriver\n -Edmund S. Muskie\n         -National Inquirer magazine\n\nLouis P. Harris poll\n -Monday magazine\n -Shriver\n\n                             (rev. Oct-06)\n\n1972 campaign practices\n -Charges\n          -The President's conduct of the Vietnam War\n          -McGovern’s campaign\n -Poll data\n          -Charts\n -The President's campaign role\n -Presidential candidates\n          -Minimum vote percentage\n -Stans and John N. Mitchell\n          -Invitation to forthcoming meeting\n -Powell\n          -Role\n\n         -Issues\n              -Vietnam\n              -Busing\n              -National defense\n              -Portsmouth, New Hampshire\n                  -Military bases\n                      -McGovern\n                          -George H. Gallup\n\n1972 New Hampshire campaign\n -Robert C. Hill\n\nThe President's schedule\n -1972 campaign\n          -The President’s view\n          -Colson’s view\n               -Media and press coverage\n                   -National Broadcasting Company [NBC]\n          -Colson's conversation with an unknown person\n               -Congressional candidacy\n\nVice President Spiro T. Agnew\n -Press conference\n          -Surrogates\n\n1972 campaign\n -US-Israel policy\n\n                                        (rev. Oct-06)\n\n            -1972 campaign issue\n                    -Jews\n            -McGovern campaign\n                    -Organizational discussion\n                        -Gordon Weil\n                             -Pacifism\n            -Polls\n                    -Gallup and Louis P. Harris polls\n            -Eugene J. McCarthy\n\n          Instructions\n\nColson left at 3:01 pm.","filename":["360-005.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Colson, Charles W.","Bull, Stephen B.","Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Colson, Charles W.","Bull, Stephen B."],"prevCode":"360-004","nextCode":"360-006","transcript":[{"start":0.3,"end":21.68,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":28.65,"end":51.66,"text":"."},{"start":51.68,"end":51.7,"text":"."},{"start":51.72,"end":51.74,"text":"."},{"start":57.1,"end":83,"text":"."},{"start":83.02,"end":83.04,"text":"."},{"start":83.06,"end":83.2,"text":"."},{"start":84.12,"end":84.14,"text":"."},{"start":84.69,"end":110.85,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":115.78,"end":139.39,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":151.21,"end":171.91,"text":"I was wondering in that connection ."},{"start":181.2,"end":207.89,"text":"."},{"start":207.91,"end":207.93,"text":"."},{"start":207.95,"end":207.97,"text":"."},{"start":227.3,"end":255.81,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":256.31,"end":286,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":287.65,"end":316.14,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":329.77,"end":344,"text":"Yes."},{"start":361.48,"end":374.24,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":376.8,"end":405.32,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":405.96,"end":433.84,"text":"... ... ... ... ..."},{"start":434.19,"end":464.12,"text":"."},{"start":464.14,"end":464.16,"text":"."},{"start":464.18,"end":464.2,"text":"."},{"start":464.51,"end":487.74,"text":"."},{"start":487.76,"end":487.9,"text":"."},{"start":487.92,"end":494.41,"text":"."},{"start":494.43,"end":494.45,"text":"."},{"start":494.47,"end":494.49,"text":"."},{"start":498.67,"end":528.39,"text":"."},{"start":528.41,"end":528.43,"text":"."},{"start":528.45,"end":528.47,"text":"."},{"start":528.49,"end":528.51,"text":"."},{"start":532.13,"end":557.92,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":558.76,"end":575.86,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":583.33,"end":605.42,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":609.62,"end":630.55,"text":"Well, I'll just put a report."},{"start":632.03,"end":651.58,"text":"All right."},{"start":651.6,"end":652.1,"text":"Well, they have something"},{"start":660.67,"end":688.77,"text":"They're realizing, too, these guys are bringing things up a little bit, except for the person who's going to have a lot of fun."},{"start":688.79,"end":689.87,"text":"If I were the person who's going to have a lot of fun,"},{"start":690.52,"end":712.68,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":713.03,"end":737.37,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":739.17,"end":760.24,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":761.8,"end":789.36,"text":"That's why on that profile"},{"start":789.53,"end":816.21,"text":"Well, you're"},{"start":816.82,"end":841.74,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":846.65,"end":872.93,"text":"Okay."},{"start":876.01,"end":905.41,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":907,"end":935.8,"text":"That does it."},{"start":937.44,"end":945.35,"text":"Don't do it under this."},{"start":948.75,"end":957.21,"text":"We'll have one get out."},{"start":957.23,"end":957.75,"text":"We can't do it under this."},{"start":957.77,"end":958.17,"text":"It isn't really new."},{"start":958.19,"end":958.65,"text":"Don't do it under that."},{"start":958.67,"end":959.33,"text":"You've got to get the same thing."},{"start":959.35,"end":960.23,"text":"No longer snagging me to help you with this."},{"start":960.25,"end":961.05,"text":"I'm getting into some colorful language."},{"start":961.07,"end":961.61,"text":"This is the most difficult."},{"start":961.63,"end":961.95,"text":"It's covered up."},{"start":961.97,"end":962.31,"text":"Massive cover-up."},{"start":962.53,"end":987.85,"text":"to get the writers to think this through a lot better."},{"start":987.87,"end":991.56,"text":"Let's get the writers to work on that in order to make it more colorful."},{"start":992.6,"end":1021.75,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1022.72,"end":1049.75,"text":"."},{"start":1049.77,"end":1049.79,"text":"."},{"start":1049.81,"end":1049.83,"text":"."},{"start":1055.24,"end":1084.56,"text":"Whoa, that'd be great."},{"start":1090.21,"end":1103.37,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1130.64,"end":1139.87,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1192.76,"end":1220.92,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1229.96,"end":1254.99,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1264.1,"end":1291.19,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1291.54,"end":1320.69,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1353.04,"end":1375.5,"text":"."},{"start":1375.52,"end":1375.54,"text":"."},{"start":1375.56,"end":1375.58,"text":"."},{"start":1383.75,"end":1413.28,"text":"."},{"start":1413.65,"end":1442.87,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":1442.89,"end":1442.91,"text":"."},{"start":1449.46,"end":1475.94,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1478.87,"end":1507.55,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1509.53,"end":1533.82,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1563.23,"end":1584.87,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1585.4,"end":1607.68,"text":"I agree."},{"start":1613.01,"end":1641.32,"text":"."},{"start":1641.34,"end":1641.36,"text":"."},{"start":1641.38,"end":1641.4,"text":"."},{"start":1643.3,"end":1668.62,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1671.89,"end":1688.63,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1713.6,"end":1732.22,"text":"Four days."},{"start":1732.24,"end":1732.44,"text":"Four days."},{"start":1743.18,"end":1764.7,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1773.91,"end":1784.24,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1802.8,"end":1819.01,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1833.47,"end":1853.92,"text":"Well, it doesn't."},{"start":1858.58,"end":1881.65,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1899.26,"end":1919.87,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1940.61,"end":1967,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1972.35,"end":1999.43,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":2007.21,"end":2027.23,"text":"Oh, that is one line I'm watching."},{"start":2037.28,"end":2065.5,"text":"Oh yeah."},{"start":2065.52,"end":2066.24,"text":"Don't use such language against him."},{"start":2066.26,"end":2066.38,"text":"Smear."},{"start":2067.45,"end":2086.03,"text":"."},{"start":2086.05,"end":2086.07,"text":"."},{"start":2086.09,"end":2086.11,"text":"."},{"start":2095.72,"end":2122.55,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":2147.85,"end":2172.07,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":2184.06,"end":2211.77,"text":"It was our ."},{"start":2212.26,"end":2242.02,"text":"."},{"start":2242.04,"end":2242.06,"text":"."},{"start":2242.08,"end":2242.1,"text":"."},{"start":2242.52,"end":2263.58,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":2265.03,"end":2294.91,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":2294.93,"end":2294.95,"text":"."},{"start":2295.96,"end":2322.98,"text":"All right."},{"start":2323.63,"end":2349.27,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":2349.39,"end":2378.37,"text":"."},{"start":2378.39,"end":2378.41,"text":"."},{"start":2378.43,"end":2378.45,"text":"."},{"start":2378.82,"end":2407.52,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":2410.96,"end":2438.4,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":2439.06,"end":2461.14,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":2469.77,"end":2498.77,"text":"I can't tell all these ."},{"start":2499.44,"end":2526.47,"text":"All right."},{"start":2530.39,"end":2554.59,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":2598.14,"end":2619,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":2623.49,"end":2630.09,"text":"Thank you."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Charles Colson met to discuss campaign strategy and political messaging for the upcoming 1972 election. They reviewed polling data, economic issues, and strategies to counter George McGovern, while also addressing ongoing concerns regarding Watergate and the Vietnam War. A key outcome included the President instructing his speechwriters to develop more effective, aggressive responses to political attacks and allegations of a 'cover-up.'","topics":["1972 Presidential Campaign","Watergate","Vietnam War","Political Strategy","George McGovern","Economic Policy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T16:51:50.909Z"},"topicSlugs":["1972-presidential-campaign","watergate","vietnam-war","political-strategy","george-mcgovern","economic-policy"],"audioDurationSec":2639,"audioFiles":[{"file":"360-005.mp3","bytes":63325830,"durationSec":2638.51,"bitrate":192005,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:44.539Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/360-005.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/360-005","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/360/conversation-360-005","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}