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Conversation 365-007

TapeTape 365StartFriday, October 13, 1972 at 12:45 PMEndFriday, October 13, 1972 at 3:00 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building
AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson met to discuss campaign strategy, media relations, and their ongoing antagonism toward the press and political opponents. The conversation focused on discrediting Democratic tactics and the perceived bias of major news outlets like The Washington Post and The New York Times, which Nixon deemed hostile to his administration. They also evaluated the political impact of George McGovern's campaign, the Vietnam War, and potential economic issues, while strategizing on how to manipulate media coverage and public perception ahead of the upcoming election.

Campaign StrategyPress RelationsMedia BiasVietnam WarPolitical SabotageGeorge McGovern
AudioNARA Description

On October 13, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 12:45 pm and 3:00 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 365-007 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 365-7

Date: October 13, 1972
Time: 12:45 pm - unknown before 3:00 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Charles W. Colson.

        The President's schedule
            -October 13, 1972 meeting with Claire (Hodgson) Ruth, Ralph Branca, Bobby
            Thompson
                -Sports celebrities
                     -Joe Namath
                     -Tom Seaver
                     -Black athletes
                          -R. Sargent Shriver
                          -Buttons
                               -Ivan Bell
                -Harry O'Donnell
                     -Press secretary for Thomas E. Dewey
                          -Nelson A. Rockefeller

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration:    5m 1s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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        Campaign practices
           -Republican response
               -Barry M. Goldwater

                                    (rev. Oct-06)

              -Media response
                  -[Arnold] Eric Sevareid
              -Sabotage
                  -Colson’s conversation with Dole

          -Democrats tactics characterized
             -Dick Tuck
                 -Patrick J. Buchanan
                      -Violent demonstrations against the President
                           -San Francisco
                      -Destruction of Phoenix campaign headquarters
                       office
                      -Washington Post and Washington Star
             -Press coverage
                 -Washington Post
                      -Story about Robert Mardian
                           -Justice Department link
                 -News summary
                 -Representation of the US
                 -The President's substitution of the White House
                  news summary
                 -Washington Star
                      -Kenneth W. Clawson theory
                      -Black liberals
                 -Access to the White House
                      -Carroll Kilpatrick
                           -Ronald L. Ziegler
                      -New York Times
                           -Robert B. Semple, Jr.
                           -Edward Dale
                      -Actions in the Pentagon Papers case
                      -Henry A. Kissinger

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 3m 33s ]

                                     (rev. Oct-06)

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

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       Vietnam War
           -George S. McGovern's October 10, 1972, speech and proposals
               -Washington Star article
           -Negotiations
               -J. William Fulbright

       Campaign practices
          -McGovern's campaign
          -Audio tape ban by McGovern [at University of Minnesota,
           October 12, 1972
              -McGovern’s Vietnam speech
                   -Colson’s talk with [Wendell B. Colson, III]
                       -Princeton University
                   -Radio program
                   -Veracity
              -Source
                   -Colson’s view
                       -Harvard College student
                   -Unknown person
                   -Radio interview
                       -Relationship with Colson
                            -1960
                       -Colson’s view
              -Anonymous telephone call
                   -Network coverage
                       -“Double standard”
              -McGovern
                   -John D. Ehrlichman

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 7m 14s ]

                                      (rev. Oct-06)

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

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       Issues
           -Unknown man
           -Vietnam War
               -McGovern's positions characterized
           -Espionage
           -The economy
               -Consumer confidence
                    -Alfred E. Sindlinger
               -Stock market
                    -As reflection of nation's attitude
                        -Polls
               -Gross National Product [GNP] figures
                    -Possible apprehension by the public
                        -Election
           -Vietnam War
           -National defense
           -Welfare
               -Costs
                    -$1000 per person proposal
                    -Marvin L. Kalb story
               -Effectiveness as issue
                    -Democrats

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 13m 24s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

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                                       (rev. Oct-06)

Colson left at an unknown time before 3:00 pm.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Yeah, hey, Bruce.
Hey, Bruce.
I'm Bobby Thompson.
God, you know, we've really gotten support from that supporting sportsman.
Oh, that he is.
The sportsman, basically, is a pedigree.
That's right.
That's right.
interesting lifestyle you know i mean they're you know they're square most of them aren't they oh you've got a demon we had some big bucks kind of dull
Uh, there's no, I don't think that, uh, there's no good advice for the president, particularly to, uh, to bring, uh, that kind of extreme reaction.
Harry O'Connor was, uh, you know, he was, he was doing his best, you know, he was one of the great pros of all-time rock and roll.
He was doing his best, and he was happy to say, he's been rockin' all this year.
I'm talking about the order of the door, but it's defensive, you know what I'm saying?
Every, every opening crack, every opening mark is running into this one.
I'm not for surrender.
Actually, it's for surrender.
I'm not going to believe that.
But I just think, I really think he's messed it up.
This whole, this whole crack.
having them.
This is sick.
They're going to leave that kind of a legacy that they don't want.
I mean, they're going to separate it from the economy.
They ought to be working on it.
They didn't want to make us look bad.
But I don't know.
We'll run back to the election.
We'll be done.
They leave the sabotage business in a way of also building up another line on the part of the liberal
That is the one that he stole from Creston.
Well, we had really got to get back out of the corn factory.
And I was always getting out there, very cool, wherever they were.
And you just figured it was impossible.
No, I just talked to Bob Wilk.
And I asked Bob Wilk and Creston.
And they had four points in the deal.
And I just called him and said, God, you have to try it.
See what happens.
There was a good reason.
It's making my great wish happen.
Well, Bob's good at this.
The point being, number one, you see about it.
Number two, we haven't done this.
Number three, this is the way in which the Democrats are covering up for their own good.
Their own candidates did it to each other.
They were on a priority.
And their own staff did it to each other.
And let's follow a single standard.
and you're gonna read it, and then, what I've always said is that, but let's get, get out what TikTok did, listen, he did every one of these goddamn things, you know, deified, get, you can't talk, but he was a fine article, deified, well, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they,
They did that in San Francisco, Chuck.
That's right.
That's why Justin said that.
That's the one to throw back.
He goes more far away when they try to actually put this in play in those kind of states.
Oregon was in a violent demonstration.
People were very briskly drawn.
In 1947, they burned the Phoenix Headquarters.
You can hear that.
The printing industry tickets were around.
It was just fantastic.
But I cannot say, it's the Washington Post and the Amistad who would appreciate that.
And they got Marty and some of the crisis forces down in Ashford.
The Post started a story and he asked for information to the Justice Department of the People Act and he got the Justice Department of the People Act.
That's the story.
I read through some of it and asked for some of it.
I'll read through those later when the election comes.
Don't read this.
Don't.
I never intend to read it after the election.
Never.
Never.
They've lost the ring.
The reason is that I don't think they represent the country.
They have nothing to say that I don't think is worth saying.
I'm going to read the new summary.
I'm supposed to go straight to hell.
I'm not going to have it in that house.
I'm not going to go.
Of course I'm going to do it.
Here.
The sections.
Do you think it'll be any better?
Yeah, it is better.
But it's playing to the blacks' lips.
Yeah, yeah.
But they're more responsible.
They wouldn't go to the store, but the postman would.
He thinks that'll help.
But it'll hurt the post, and therefore... That's what I mean.
I don't mean help the store.
It'll help to destroy the post.
It'll hurt the post.
Well, we will do it.
Of course, they're the problem, aren't you?
My fellow at Carrollville, Patrick, he's so nice.
You know, he's one of Ziegler's closest friends.
Ziegler hates to turn him off.
That's exactly my point.
The same with Bobby Semple.
Semple's a nice guy, but God damn it, he works for the New York Times.
Right?
Same with Ed Dale.
I do think we don't do it anymore.
I'm going to follow the same policy for the New York Times.
It's not a good thing.
When it goes on the Pentagon Papers thing, they've lost me.
That's forever.
That's the destroyer of this country.
They're bad.
They're bad.
But they're not as bad.
They're bad enough for me.
They don't care if I enter it.
They're wishing me good things.
Well, it's been so good.
And they had to find a way to get back to taking the speech, because if that didn't turn out to be an emergency, then they really have lost it.
Then they really know they've lost it.
So it was very important to spread that speech.
Very important for that speech.
I think pretty well what Greg was saying.
I didn't know.
Totally.
I don't think I said it.
I don't.
I wouldn't give him an answer.
In many respects, he lost ground, because he was rather introverted than hysterical, or just or strict.
Many friends of the left, because of his doings here, said that Fulbright said that he proposed a mistake on the spot, because some of his subjects had left the negotiation, but I suppose Fulbright said that he was under great pressure to leave, because of his presence in Fulbright, who recognizes that this guy is a mean, mean, anti-war, Fulbright saying,
Now, where does he support solidifying the hard core?
Maybe they've got a chance at all.
I talked to my son last night in prison.
He said, no, just check out.
He said, they just turned this election off.
And he said, I don't think that question.
I can't go to New Jersey.
I can't go to New Jersey.
I can't go to New Jersey.
I can't go to New Jersey.
I can't go to New Jersey.
and so that in regard to this
I don't think there is one.
I think this is funny.
The reason I think it's funny is that I don't have the patience.
The reason I think it's funny is that it's too professional.
That doesn't sound like a, you know, I'll tell you what it is.
It's a hard challenge to rehearse that very well.
and did it in conjunction with the story of the running of the Senate.
Well, this guy is real terrible.
I brought him in 1960.
He has quite a problem.
He's a total glutton.
And what does this guy say?
He says he had his call, didn't say his name, nothing.
And has been asking for the guy to come forward and say,
I don't know if he doesn't.
The networks should not run a little bit more.
I know, but that's the problem.
If they run it, I swear to God, that's greedy.
If they had an anonymous call, would they run an anonymous thing for us?
I don't know.
I don't understand.
Because we haven't done it in a long time.
I mean, yeah, but...
Thank you for watching.
The entire agency has said that it doesn't want anything to do with us.
The only thing that I can say is that it doesn't want anything to do with us.
More of us just need representation of the nation and the people.
And I don't think that's the only thing that's important to this president.
He doesn't want us.
I don't think that's the reason that I've been here.
I don't think that's the only reason.
The next thing I said was that I never had to give up.
But I have to go to the right place, and I have to go to the right place, and I have to go to the right place, and I have to go to the right place, and I have to go to the right place, and I have to go to the right place, and I have to go to the right place.
The next was how I handled it.
You know, the answer to that is, you know, I think a lot of times there's a conversation, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, like,
I'm not just going to choose water.
I'm going to choose water.
I'm going to choose water.
I'm going to choose water.
and it took a little bit of a trip to pick up the fish and put it in the garden.
It was a little bit of a challenge.
But hopefully, when she actually did it, it was fairly pretty good.
It was crazy.
But it was not my fault, actually.
I was dying at the end of the day.
And most of all, I just didn't know that it was an official connection.
I just didn't know that people would ever end up
The idea of a federal government is just not practical.
If they've got any land brands, they're talking now.
You know what?
Yeah.
I'm not going to talk.
I'm not going to talk.
I'm not going to talk.
I'm not going to talk.
I'm not going to talk.
I'm not going to talk.
I'm not going to talk.
I'm not going to talk.
I'm not going to talk.
The welfare costs that we should be saving for the program are $6,500, $4,000, $1,000, $1,000, $1,000.
For example, in the state, the numbers for the state are $1,000, $1,000, $1,000, $1,000, $1,000, $1,000, $1,000, $1,000.
Thank you.
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