{"conversationCode":"366-003","tapeNumber":366,"conversationNumber":3,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-366-003","startDateTime":"1972-10-10T18:40:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-10-10T19:37:00.000Z","startDate":"10-Oct-1972","startTime":"2:40 PM","endDate":"10-Oct-1972","endTime":"3:37 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.; Acker, Marjorie P.; [Unknown person(s)];","description":"On October 10, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, Marjorie P. Acker, and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:40 pm to 3:37 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 366-003 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 366-3\n\nDate: October 10, 1972\nTime: 2:40 pm - 3:37 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with Charles W. Colson.\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 8m 17s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n        1972 campaign\n            -Vietnam War\n                  -George S. McGovern’s forthcoming speech\n                  -Settlement prospects\n                       -Effect on McGovern's campaign\n                  -Response to McGovern\n                  -Congress\n                  -William P. Rogers\n                  -Henry A. Kissinger\n                  -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew’s recent speech\n                       -McGovern speech\n                       -Press coverage\n            -Illinois\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2\n[Personal returnable]\n\n[Duration:   2m 22s   ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n        1972 campaign\n            -Robert J. Dole's recommendations\n                -Economic issues\n                      -Upcoming speeches from surrogates\n                      -High prices, inflation, tax increases, increased spending\n                -Vietnam\n                      -McGovern's position characterized\n                          -Debate\n            -The President’s recent breakfast meeting\n                -John D. Ehrlichman, Clark MacGregor\n                -Surrogates\n            -Wisconsin\n            -Rhode Island\n                -Ehrlichman\n                -Brooklyn, Queens\n                -Philadelphia\n                -Cuyahoga County\n                      -Cleveland\n                -Ethnics, labor unions\n                -Bridgeport, Connecticut\n                -Illinois\n                -Pittsburgh\n            -Amnesty\n            -Permissiveness\n            -Abortion\n                -Catholics\n                -Rhode Island\n                      -McGovern\n                -William F. (“Billy”) Graham\n                -View of the Momon Church\n                -Catholic issue\n                -Permissiveness\n                      -Promiscuity\n\n                         -Venereal disease\n                 -Conservatives\n                 -Colson’s view\n                 -The President’s view\n                     -Position of doctors characterized\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 4m 50s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n        1972 campaign\n            -Amnesty, welfare\n                 -Unions\n            -Permissiveness\n            -Lifestyle of McGovern supporters\n                 -Photographs\n                 -George Meany\n                     -Gay liberation group\n                          -Handouts\n                              -Roman S. Hruska comment\n            -Strategy on use of issues\n                 -Hugh Scott\n                     -McGovern’s issue advertisements\n                          -Responses\n                              -Veterans\n                              -Vietnam\n\nMarjorie P. Acker [?] entered at an unknown time after 2:40 pm.\n\n        Tennis\n           -Shelley A. (Scarney) Buchanan\n           -Patrick J. Buchanan\n\nAcker left at an unknown time before 3:37 pm.\n\n        1972 campaign\n            -Economy\n                -Herbert K. Stein’s forthcoming appearance at New York\n                 Society of Security Analysts\n                     -Attack on McGovern\n                     -McGovern’s recent appearance\n                     -Inflation\n                     -Prices\n                          -Wage and price controls\n                               -Duration\n                                    -Lyndon B. Johnson\n                -Prices\n                     -Wage and price controls\n                          -McGovern’s program\n                               -Effect\n                                    -Taxes\n            -Media and press relations\n                -News summary\n                     -Patrick J. Buchanan\n                     -Lyndon K. (“Mort”) Allin\n                -Establishment\n                -Time, News Week\n                     -Buchanan\n                     -Name calling\n                -News magazines focus\n                     -Welfare\n            -Garment workers\n                -Anti-semitism\n                     -Louis P. Harris\n                     -Italians, Poles, Russians\n            -Foreign policy issues\n                -McGovern campaign\n                     -Harris’s view\n                          -Incompetence\n                          -Soviet Union\n                          -People’s Republic of China [PRC]\n                          -Harris poll\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 21m 16s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n       1972 campaign\n           -Tone\n               -Attack mode\n               -The President’s recent breakfast meeting\n                   -Attack mode\n                   -MacGregor\n                   -Cabinet and White House staff\n                       -Honesty\n                            -Response to corruption charges\n\n       Press relations\n           -Watergate\n                -Washington Post\n                     -Story, October 12, 1972\n                         -Sabotage of Edmund S. Muskie campaign\n                              -John B. Connally\n                         -Committee to Re-Elect the President [CRP]\n\n       Issues\n           -1972 campaign\n               -Miami Herald\n                   -McGovern\n           -Vietnam\n\n       1972 campaign\n           -McGovern's schedule\n               -Chicago\n                   -Aldermen\n               -Detroit\n\n                     -[Roman S. Gribbs]\n                     -Democrats for Nixon\n                          -Mrs. Gribbs\n                     -Italian parade\n\nAn unknown person entered at an unknown time after 2:40 pm.\n\n        Connally\n\nColson and the unknown person left at 3:37 pm.","filename":["366-003.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Colson, Charles W.","Acker, Marjorie P.","[Unknown person(s)]"],"prevCode":"366-002","nextCode":"366-004","transcript":[{"start":10.19,"end":24.79,"text":"I don't know what's going to happen."},{"start":24.81,"end":27.99,"text":"Either one, either way, though."},{"start":28.57,"end":31.86,"text":"Let's suppose we get a deal."},{"start":33.1,"end":33.4,"text":"He's down, too."},{"start":33.42,"end":35.18,"text":"So let's suppose we don't get a deal."},{"start":35.2,"end":35.54,"text":"He's a scapegoat."},{"start":35.56,"end":36.68,"text":"If you don't believe me, you've got to make me one, too."},{"start":36.7,"end":37.46,"text":"I hope you like what you're saying."},{"start":70.65,"end":84.78,"text":"Okay."},{"start":84.8,"end":86.89,"text":"I need you to notice that I'm telling you right in front of you, I'm trying to speak to the other party."},{"start":86.91,"end":87.55,"text":"Who has heard it first from you?"},{"start":209.5,"end":210.35,"text":"I hear you."},{"start":323.9,"end":328.74,"text":"all these little kids going around and promiscuous relations."},{"start":329.06,"end":339.69,"text":"And then you get the category, and then you try to see if the abortion permits free promiscuous relations with other people."},{"start":339.71,"end":342.42,"text":"And that is the perfect promise of promiscuity."},{"start":342.44,"end":342.68,"text":"Right."},{"start":342.9,"end":345.64,"text":"Yes, it is perfect."},{"start":345.82,"end":346.28,"text":"It is perfect."},{"start":346.3,"end":347.06,"text":"That's why I hadn't thought of that."},{"start":347.08,"end":347.52,"text":"I suppose there isn't"},{"start":357.29,"end":361.72,"text":"As a matter of fact, you know, the discovery of the cure was for syphilis."},{"start":361.74,"end":366.8,"text":"It greatly increased the risk of syphilis."},{"start":366.82,"end":367.78,"text":"Sure."},{"start":367.8,"end":368.42,"text":"Sure."},{"start":368.9,"end":369.69,"text":"People used to be scared of that."},{"start":369.71,"end":371.79,"text":"You know, they'd hit the clock or, you know, or whatever they get."},{"start":371.81,"end":373.55,"text":"Or they'd crash, et cetera."},{"start":373.57,"end":374.63,"text":"Now they're not afraid."},{"start":374.91,"end":376.83,"text":"They're willing to go to the doctor, to the shop."},{"start":376.85,"end":378.78,"text":"So they go to the horror houses or anything, right?"},{"start":378.8,"end":379.64,"text":"They go in to the church."},{"start":394.1,"end":396.99,"text":"I might as well be"},{"start":420.67,"end":444.21,"text":"But I do it on the basis of making it goddamn hard to do."},{"start":444.23,"end":445.23,"text":"In other words, China's making a lot of big money."},{"start":445.25,"end":446.38,"text":"Where they want to have a beer, have a beer, and a drum."},{"start":446.39,"end":446.72,"text":"The drum's good."},{"start":446.74,"end":447.2,"text":"No, that's really good."},{"start":447.22,"end":448,"text":"He gives you two examples, and he says,"},{"start":465.26,"end":465.92,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":576.26,"end":577.89,"text":"What do you mean?"},{"start":579.88,"end":580.44,"text":"No, I can't."},{"start":580.6,"end":584.82,"text":"I'm sorry."},{"start":584.89,"end":586.82,"text":"You can't?"},{"start":586.94,"end":587.28,"text":"No."},{"start":645.99,"end":654.66,"text":"I don't want to get into the position where we are or where we're frozen and we keep crumbling."},{"start":654.72,"end":656.85,"text":"That's the problem I have."},{"start":656.87,"end":657.31,"text":"But we can attack him."},{"start":657.33,"end":660.17,"text":"We're removing him as soon as we can."},{"start":660.19,"end":660.41,"text":"Exactly."},{"start":660.43,"end":664.54,"text":"He says he's going to remove him today because the developers don't have to do it."},{"start":664.66,"end":665.72,"text":"We can attack him for that."},{"start":665.74,"end":668.01,"text":"Just so you don't get me frozen in the other room."},{"start":668.03,"end":668.49,"text":"You see what I mean?"},{"start":686.52,"end":694.49,"text":"I've already decided to give up on you."},{"start":754.78,"end":758.06,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":876.92,"end":881.53,"text":"The country is..."},{"start":881.79,"end":891.99,"text":"Listen, the polls have always been anti-Semitic."},{"start":892,"end":895.91,"text":"And so are the Russians."},{"start":950.06,"end":963.99,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1043.7,"end":1044.51,"text":"I'll shut up."},{"start":1285.15,"end":1301.47,"text":"... ..."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Charles Colson met to discuss campaign strategy for the 1972 election, focusing heavily on methods to discredit Democratic opponent George McGovern. They evaluated the political impact of Vietnam War peace settlement prospects, economic concerns like inflation, and social issues such as amnesty and abortion to appeal to specific voting blocs, including Catholics and labor unions. Furthermore, the discussion covered the administration's defensive stance regarding early reports of Watergate-related campaign sabotage and the need for a more aggressive posture in press relations.","topics":["1972 presidential campaign","George McGovern","Watergate","Vietnam War","Political strategy","Campaign messaging"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T17:03:25.453Z"},"topicSlugs":["1972-presidential-campaign","george-mcgovern","watergate","vietnam-war","political-strategy","campaign-messaging"],"audioDurationSec":1366,"audioFiles":[{"file":"366-003.mp3","bytes":32776358,"durationSec":1365.63,"bitrate":192007,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:44.874Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:27.589Z","transcriptGapSeconds":40,"transcriptGapShare":0.03,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/366-003.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/366-003","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/366/conversation-366-003","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}