Conversation 368-005

TapeTape 368StartTuesday, October 17, 1972 at 2:10 PMEndTuesday, October 17, 1972 at 3:00 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.;  Sanchez, Manolo;  Nixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.;  Sanchez, ManoloRecording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On October 17, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:10 pm to 3:00 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 368-005 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 368-5

Date: October 17, 1972
Time: 2:10 pm - 3:00 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Charles W. Colson.

        Campaign charges
           -Corruption
               -Last minute smears

Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 2:10 pm.

        Food

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 3:00 pm.

        Campaign practices
           -Charges
               -Time constraints
               -The White House and President's role
               -George S. McGovern's campaign
               -Washington Post
                   -Benjamin C. Bradlee
                   -October 17, 1972 story
                        -White House allegations

                                     (rev. Oct-06)

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 1m 6s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

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       Issues
           -Colson’s conversations with Paul Hall
               -Corruption
               -McGovern's appearance and voice
                   -Comparison with Adlai E. Stevenson, II
               -Vietnam War
                   -McGovern's policies
                        -McGovern’s trustworthiness
               -The President’s trustworthiness
                   -Maritime agreement
               -Washington Post
               -Appeal to leaders
               -Attacks against Helen Gahagan Douglas
                   -Political tactics

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 22m 17s ]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2

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                                     (rev. Oct-06)

       Issues
           -McGovern’s proposed defense budget
               -Base closures
                     -Utah, California
           -Economic and domestic statements
               -George P. Shultz
               -Eliot L. Richardson
               -John J. Rhodes
               -Taxes, welfare
                     -Probable statements released
                     -John B. Connally
           -Hall's conversation with Colson
           -Amnesty
               -Edwin L. Harper, Robert Teeter
               -John N. Mitchell
                     -Youth vote
           -Busing
               -Unknown person
           -Aid to parochial schools
           -Amnesty
               -Veterans groups
                     -The President’s view
               -The President's October 16, 1972 appearance before prisoner of war [POW]
               families group
                     -Morality

       Alaska
           -Airplane crash
               -The President’s recent conversation with John D. Ehrlichman
               -Will Rogers, Wiley Post
               -[Thomas] Hale Boggs, Nicholas J. Begich
                   -Death proclamations
                   -Congressional seats
                   -Memorial service

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 3m 2s ]

                                     (rev. Oct-06)

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3

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       Issues
           -Watergate
           -Anti-trust suit
               -International Business Machines Corp. [IBM]
                    -Announcement
                    -The President’s view
                         -Ehrlichman
                         -Labor
           -Amnesty, marijuana, abortion, crime
               -Conservatives
               -Social compared to economic issues
                    -1970 comparison
                    -Taxes
                    -Real income
                         -Possibility of an increase
                    -Surrogates
                         -Meeting with the Cabinet
                             -Ehrlichman, Clark MacGregor
                         -Audio-visual clips
                         -Children
                         -Credibility
                             -Reporters
           -Richard G. Kleindienst's call to Colson
               -Timing
               -Washington Post
           -McGovern
           -Amnesty
           -Hall
               -Reports from regional press

       McGovern
          -Campaign strategy
             -Inconsistency
                 -Charges on corruption

                                      (rev. Oct-06)

                        -Intended speech
                        -Advertisements
                    -Vietnam
                -Taxes
                    -Aid to parochial schools

        Issues
            -Taxes
                 -Aid to parochial schools
                     -Concerned Citizens for Non-Public Schools
                          -[Unknown people], Wellington T. Mara
                     -Tax credit
                          -Draft letter
                               -Robert B. Semple, Jr.
                                    -Northeast
                                        -New York
            -H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman’s instruction
            -Statements targeted to different regions
                 -Chicago, Detroit
            -The President's veto of the water bill
                 -Ehrlichman
            -Social Security legislation veto
                 -Budget cost
                 -Retired people
            -Department of Health, Education and Welfare [HEW] appropriation veto
                 -Office of Economic Opportunity
            -Water bill
                 -Ehrlichman
                 -Suburbs
            -Taxes
                 -The President’s credibility
            -Spending-ceiling

Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 2:10 pm.

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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 3m 1s ]

                                        (rev. Oct-06)

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 3:00 pm.

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4

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Colson left at 3:00 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Sir, I want you to go out to Corruption Front today.
We'll be quiet on Corruption Front.
I think we can have a self-example.
Bicyclists there, just waiting out, dropped the other shoe, and they got to where they got to figure it out.
You know, it's the way that all last-minute snares, they pull the brake for the last minute.
They don't have to, but...
... ... ... ...
who had the entire White House, and also just, I think, a period of time, I was aware of all the questions of truth.
But I don't think he's satisfied with the issues he has to deal with personally.
Brad, oh, the postman.
I'm a doctor.
I'm in the post.
They intimidated me when I started this morning.
Of course they did.
They said time will tell.
Our locations are in time.
I said, hold up.
I was still watching the coast.
I said, I was actually watching the coast.
He said, oh, perfect.
He said, how are you doing?
He said, I've been to a lot of countries.
He said, I've been to 42 states.
I said, 42?
I said, what about the Russians?
I said, what issue do you really have?
I said, more than anything else, the government's voice and his voice.
I said, his government's voice?
I said, his lifestyle?
He said, well, he said, just, it's kind of the way he is.
He said, he just, he thought it was the same thing like the first weeks.
He had a little bit of a prissy walk.
I said, a little bit of a prissy walk.
A little bit of a prissy.
And I said, well, what about, you know, I don't know.
And he said, you know, I don't like it.
He said, you know, I don't like it.
He said, you know, I don't like it.
But he said, it was just something that was posted.
And he said, I'm thinking about it.
And I said, I thought it was great.
I thought it was good.
He said, you're not in California.
He said, well, that's not what I thought.
I thought it was helpful.
He said, well, I heard about it.
He said, they were going to read it.
And I said, yeah, I did.
But he's never done anything in the city with me.
And he started doing it in the city with me.
And he said, so even though he may not agree with us, we trust him.
And he said, he said he'd give us an hour and a half period and we'd go.
And he said, you never want us to speak so late in the conversation.
And then God asked us, after a while, he said, can we just trust the man?
And we were like, oh, but hey, he was, he was there.
So I, and he talked to me before he was supposed to be here.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
Well, it's just that, you know, you're in a world that, you know, that's the way it is, really.
And that's how it is.
It's just the way it is.
It's just the way it is.
We are stirring this up every place in the U.S. now.
The local people, just the way it is right now.
Um, for the sake of it, I guess, that's what it was supposed to be.
And I have to just tell you, it's just, it's just difficult.
That's what it took.
I know, I've gone around to go on, uh, all the issues, uh, and that's what it took to do so.
... ... ... ... ... ...
I'm John Rhodes, and we did a state-by-state breakdown of what would happen if I was a customer in this business.
Customers, in that situation.
Taxes would play out in a state-by-state impact.
The state, you know, his provisions passed before they did the tax break in that state.
And it's pretty scary.
It's $2,000 for a family that's getting taxed.
I'm well aware of the number of reports that were put out over there in the state.
It's something to us.
I speak to every editor in the state of the state right now, as well as President.
When he goes to these places, that's the first thing that we get.
His wife, his proposal, he does, you know, put this work out.
So, you know, ladies, the average tax, you know, family report, I think about $2,000 a month.
It's kind of a pattern here, but what we're trying to do is, you know, we've been doing this for a long, long time.
We've been doing this for a long, long time.
We've been doing this for a long, long time.
We've been doing this for a long, long time.
So one issue, he said, is that they wouldn't have to choose Amnesty.
He said, these people don't have to go to Amnesty.
He's never said that way.
He said, that's the reason my husband and I are home.
And Tudor, Tudor also said that.
And that's where all the states have taken us on.
It's too difficult to be a housewife when Amnesty purchased us the yacht.
So just think about the far better experience.
What are they talking about?
And it's wrong.
That's why you didn't answer.
Right.
It just has to be everything.
It's... Oh, I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Well, that was a hell of a commercial for us on Amnesty last night, wasn't it?
We couldn't afford it.
We couldn't afford it.
It was huge.
And, well, at 19, we had to go to the prison for those who had died or who were on prison conditions.
of those who deserve to have them must pay a price for their choice of what you can or you can't.
I put it to the courts that they need the most time.
And we're the highest around, and we're going to be the highest in the world yet.
Almost, he's almost three months old.
He's three months old.
Socially, that's our difference this week.
As far as I can tell, we don't know where he's coming from.
We don't know where he's coming from.
We don't know where he's coming from.
I have to doubt, I ask the reporter, what she was talking about.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know why they posted it.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
He's very far out of what he is, and he seems to listen.
I don't know how many years he's been in prison, but he seems to be the same kind of person that's out there listening to everybody.
Does that carry on?
I don't know.
I didn't, I didn't, well, I asked her the question, I said, well, I should have done it, but I didn't suggest it.
I just felt that approval, and I did, and I told her, you know,
Well, we're not pro-immigrant.
We're pro-immigrant, but I don't believe they've been messing with themselves.
The second part is, uh, I think for the service of the church, you know, as we discussed last week, along the lines we discussed, do not vote for Democrats.
Stop thinking about the amnesty, crime, abortion, crime.
For us, we'll start thinking about the economics.
Is that right?
Yeah.
Remember something, don't go through anything just because of the subject.
Don't let the subject wait too long, I guess.
Just keep people worried and elevated.
That is, though, the tax issue isn't great, unless you need to stand to it and make clear things on the plus side of it.
Especially that they're doing it on the plus side, in case they never do it on the plus side.
That should be everybody's job, you see.
You know, he's so right, though, about the circulation.
You see, that was the thing.
The truck was bugging me about that, too.
The service, the cabin, the place, the practice.
And I saw, I saw Greg and Herb going on the list of issues, and they were not talking about the circulation.
I wouldn't get away with it.
I was going to talk.
I was going to talk.
I was going to talk.
But it's not working.
And there are people who are not doing it.
They're doing great.
They just don't know it.
They're not doing it right.
And they call it.
They're not sending it, of course.
I don't think they're going to do it.
They just don't know it.
A lot of them have kids pushing them.
They don't want to be part of that group.
They don't want to be part of that group.
They don't want to be part of that group.
They don't want to be part of that group.
They don't want to be part of that group.
They don't want to be part of that group.
I don't know how to read it.
So they were, they were all kind of discontent, just a little bit nervous because they couldn't push it, couldn't push it close to the examples.
So every time they streamed live, live videos, they got a gap.
If they don't stream, you already have that, you already have that period.
That's right.
I can tell immediately on the issues of this world, the amnesty that we've got to deal with, and the amnesty that we've got to spread about.
And you know that you're sensitive about it.
You can't get away with it.
You are going to know it.
But this is not going to be the time.
You don't have the time to say that.
Oh, here's a question.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Also, I think that God is giving him advice that he can't make up his mind at the end of time.
Instead, look at him at the end of time.
He bounces back.
Oh, that's great.
When there was this thing called corruption, something like that, he blew it away and ran in a hole, and it was fine.
He was made a bigger deal than any of the others.
He doesn't have anything.
He's got a spirit that comes over his head, and he has to read it.
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
It's not too cold.
I don't need an idea to get on taxis now.
I don't want to leave my country, but that's not all.
I don't want to.
I don't want to, but that's not, except for the, uh, I've got to get on that.
That's important.
Although we've got something to say.
Because, uh, hell, you know,
which is, uh, medicine.
Uh, I've asked that many of them want to send citizens to non-medical centers.
Instead of, like, I'm here, right?
I mean, it's a little rough, isn't it?
All right.
Let's get out of here.
We've got to see what we can do.
We've got to see what we can do.
We've got to see what we can do.
We've got to see what we can do.
We've got to see what we can do.
I asked him how he's going to put his support next to this $200 tax credit.
So if you know what that does on us, there's a lot to do together.
So we'll see.
We can't say for a long time.
But we've heard, uh, if you've heard, actually, in the last place, the second time, it's probably the best way.
Because, uh, you know, it doesn't have to be.
It doesn't, it doesn't have to be.
So that's, that's the right side of that.
Some of it is actually .
But I think what they've got to do is go directly with the statement to somebody and request something.
And I've been working on something now.
I'm getting something out.
I'm going to get it paid.
Frankly, there are things.
I don't know, but I hope, I hope you've got something to say about that.
Because, I don't think you've got anything to say about that.
Of course you can.
Of course you have to realize this.
You can't just, you can't come up with a, you know, you have to realize that you've got something to say.
Well, first of all, I'd like to say thank you very much for having me on the show.
I'm so proud of you for having me on the show.
And that's why I told her, you know, I'm not going to do another one.
You know, the water, you know, I have to do another one.
And it cost $800 million this year and $400 million over the budget last year.
I can't say that.
I don't ever do.
I don't ever do that.
Some of the old folks will cut her off on that one.
They do.
They cut her off.
She's got to take that.
And I'm also going to need to go to the appropriation.
I'm going to need to go to the appropriation.
I'm going to need to go to the appropriation.
I'm going to need to go to the appropriation.
I'm going to need to go to the appropriation.
I think that community will actually have to do it.
I do.
I don't think people are going to change their roles in society.
I don't want that.
And then, you know, it's not easy, but that's why we do it.
That's why we do it.
We're going to do it.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
I'm so excited.
Thank you.
Thank you.