{"conversationCode":"369-013","tapeNumber":369,"conversationNumber":13,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-369-013","startDateTime":"1972-10-18T22:16:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-10-18T22:51:00.000Z","startDate":"18-Oct-1972","startTime":"6:16 PM","endDate":"18-Oct-1972","endTime":"6:51 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.;","description":"On October 18, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles W. Colson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 6:16 pm to 6:51 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 369-013 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 369-13\n\nDate: October 18, 1972\nTime: 6:16 pm - 6:51 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President talked with Charles W. Colson.\n\n[See Conversation No. 31-124; four items have been withdrawn]","filename":["369-013.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Colson, Charles W."],"prevCode":"369-012","nextCode":"369-014","transcript":[{"start":0.47,"end":10.26,"text":"So, so, what have you got to report before I talk to the leaders in a couple of minutes?"},{"start":10.28,"end":14.19,"text":"The assholes are supposed to call me, but I've been waiting here for an hour."},{"start":14.71,"end":19.74,"text":"And now they were supposed to have coffee at 4 o'clock."},{"start":20.7,"end":27.11,"text":"And they knocked it off by 30 in the morning."},{"start":27.13,"end":30.2,"text":"So they didn't want to have a break or something."},{"start":30.22,"end":32.9,"text":"And they didn't serve it anyway."},{"start":32.92,"end":36.71,"text":"It's the worst."},{"start":36.73,"end":38.93,"text":"It's the most irresponsible Congress to bring it in."},{"start":41.63,"end":45.64,"text":"But it isn't particularly mine."},{"start":45.66,"end":48.65,"text":"I don't think it's going to be particularly helpful to us."},{"start":48.67,"end":53.02,"text":"I will if it will help, but I don't want to mobilize, frankly, Connery's friends."},{"start":53.6,"end":54.86,"text":"That's the problem I have."},{"start":74.03,"end":90.28,"text":"Well, we're going to do as much as we can, but I won't do it."},{"start":90.3,"end":98.87,"text":"I'm going to have to... Yeah, yeah."},{"start":105.47,"end":115.16,"text":"I think it's so confusing, though, to the public."},{"start":115.18,"end":117.86,"text":"It's not going to get through."},{"start":117.88,"end":122.07,"text":"We ought to be able to do a little on our side."},{"start":122.29,"end":122.73,"text":"But we'll play along."},{"start":122.85,"end":124.43,"text":"We should have the right to make those protections."},{"start":124.45,"end":127.14,"text":"Yet I don't want to say they're going to be attached."},{"start":136.47,"end":143.39,"text":"That's the line."},{"start":159.31,"end":159.63,"text":"That's the line."},{"start":159.65,"end":159.97,"text":"That's the line."},{"start":159.99,"end":160.31,"text":"That's the line."},{"start":160.33,"end":160.65,"text":"That's the line."},{"start":160.67,"end":162.09,"text":"That's the line."},{"start":162.28,"end":163.64,"text":"That's the line."},{"start":166.03,"end":170.76,"text":"Thank you for what I said about the work they had done."},{"start":197.69,"end":217.52,"text":"You know, we had an interesting thing on that with John Hurt when he was talking about that."},{"start":217.99,"end":236.5,"text":"and yesterday was the event that John Conlon and all of these have had to play with."},{"start":236.52,"end":240.53,"text":"And one of the messages he raised was one about the earth, which, of course, Don has been telling us, but he doesn't mean this for himself."},{"start":240.55,"end":241.33,"text":"I mean, it's a part of the economy."},{"start":241.31,"end":246.24,"text":"And what I said was very good."},{"start":247.08,"end":248.06,"text":"It was important."},{"start":248.08,"end":249.88,"text":"And of course, Holland, of course, you know, he was very lucky."},{"start":250.03,"end":250.57,"text":"Erwin had a very good view."},{"start":250.59,"end":251.27,"text":"He had a very good view of this."},{"start":251.29,"end":253.83,"text":"And not that he suffered, but his people are."},{"start":253.85,"end":260.6,"text":"And also, for Christ's sake, the best thing that happened was what he said about amnesty."},{"start":260.62,"end":266.05,"text":"And what he said about, we're not going to leave a few of us to the mercy of our enemies."},{"start":266.03,"end":272.14,"text":"And that amnesty line, believe me, we just don't realize how powerful that is."},{"start":272.17,"end":277.52,"text":"Our surrogates aren't missing out on that, are they?"},{"start":277.54,"end":277.72,"text":"Are they?"},{"start":277.74,"end":277.84,"text":"Okay."},{"start":277.86,"end":282.79,"text":"But the way I use it on that thing, that really puts that place apart."},{"start":283.73,"end":286.23,"text":"And many really get the point of it."},{"start":304.39,"end":322.07,"text":"Doug, politically, is one of the smartest fellows in this country."},{"start":322.09,"end":324.27,"text":"Oh, I know."},{"start":324.35,"end":326.59,"text":"Oh, I think he's great."},{"start":326.61,"end":328.05,"text":"They tell you the Monday night, you know, even though, so forth."},{"start":328.07,"end":329.21,"text":"I'm getting an atmosphere of that."},{"start":329.24,"end":331.58,"text":"I'm getting a bit of a feel that he's the person to where I don't know anybody."},{"start":332,"end":354.24,"text":"So those facts make the difference between me and the governor, without ever mentioning the governor."},{"start":354.26,"end":355.24,"text":"Don't you agree?"},{"start":355.26,"end":356.78,"text":"Revenue sharing."},{"start":356.92,"end":357.68,"text":"We're going to do that."},{"start":357.7,"end":358.32,"text":"Everybody thinks that's great."},{"start":358.34,"end":358.7,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":358.92,"end":361.12,"text":"I think it's just fine, and it'll be a nice little picture show, but nobody gives a goddamn about it."},{"start":371.16,"end":378.95,"text":"You'll follow up, if you will, on the tax thing."},{"start":378.97,"end":392.77,"text":"And I, as I said, I'm going to take the amendment and Schultz and Wagner and what they can't say prior to going into up-directed."},{"start":392.79,"end":395.13,"text":"And then we'll weed that story out."},{"start":395.15,"end":396.51,"text":"I'm going to take all the bills."},{"start":396.53,"end":398.01,"text":"I'm going to veto bills all next week."},{"start":398.04,"end":398.84,"text":"I'm going to veto the AGW appropriation."},{"start":398.86,"end":398.98,"text":"And..."},{"start":410.26,"end":414.39,"text":"Right."},{"start":414.41,"end":414.83,"text":"Right."},{"start":415.73,"end":433.45,"text":"Well, I know about all that argument."},{"start":433.47,"end":435.5,"text":"Well, any of that."},{"start":435.58,"end":439.12,"text":"Well, they should, but..."},{"start":439.78,"end":448.63,"text":"of a miserable congress."},{"start":450.09,"end":453.73,"text":"I'm glad I don't have them call me that."},{"start":453.75,"end":460.06,"text":"Well, they're rather nice, but good in a personal sense."},{"start":460.08,"end":465.49,"text":"But, God, they haven't stood up for the country."},{"start":465.51,"end":465.85,"text":"Well, sure, sure."},{"start":465.87,"end":468.23,"text":"Well, they don't think what they don't like, and, you know, what to say."},{"start":469.68,"end":470.51,"text":"Bye."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Charles Colson discuss legislative strategy and political messaging shortly before a meeting with Congressional leaders. Nixon expresses frustration with the current Congress, labeling it irresponsible, and outlines a plan to actively veto pending appropriation bills to demonstrate strength. They further evaluate campaign themes, specifically emphasizing the effectiveness of a firm stance against amnesty as a wedge issue to differentiate Nixon from his political opponents.","topics":["Congressional relations","Presidential vetoes","Amnesty","Political campaigning","Legislative strategy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T17:09:55.632Z"},"topicSlugs":["congressional-relations","presidential-vetoes","amnesty","political-campaigning","legislative-strategy"],"audioDurationSec":483,"audioFiles":[{"file":"369-013.mp3","bytes":11600247,"durationSec":483.27,"bitrate":192030,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:44.875Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/369-013.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/369-013","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/369/conversation-369-013","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}