Conversation 371-009

TapeTape 371StartFriday, October 20, 1972 at 10:04 AMEndFriday, October 20, 1972 at 10:35 AMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haig, Alexander M., Jr.;  Westmoreland, William (Gen.)Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On October 20, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., and Gen. William Westmoreland met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 10:04 am to 10:35 am. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 371-009 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 371-9

                                        (rev. Oct-06)

Date: October 20, 1972
Time: 10:04 am - 10:35 am
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Alexander M. Haig, Jr. and Gen. William C. Westmoreland.

        Vietnam
            -Peace settlement negotiations
                -Haig's previous conversation with Westmoreland
                -Message from Henry A. Kissinger
                          -Gen. Nguyen Van Thieu's concerns
                               -North Vietnamese forces in South Vietnam
                               -Possible cease-fire violations
                               -Tripartite committee
                                   -Coalition government
                     -Political aspects
                          -The President's conversation with Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.
                          -National Council of National Reconciliation and Concord
                     -US public support
                     -Thieu
                     -Prisoners of War [POWs]
                -Military Dispositions
                     -Timing
                          -Cease-fire
                     -A-5’s
                -Soviet Union
                -Thieu
                -The People's Republic of China [PRC]
                -May 8, 1972 bombing of Hanoi and mining of Haiphong Harbor
                -Analysis of conditions
                     -Thieu
                     -Cease-fire
                     -Possible publicizing of settlement terms
                -1972 Election
                -Westmoreland’s view
                     -Military situation
                     -POWs
                     -Political problems for South Vietnam
                          -Sovereignty
                          -Thieu

                 (rev. Oct-06)

-Withdrawal of North Vietnamese forces
-Sovereignty of South Vietnam
    -Vietcong
    -Provisions of agreement
          -Thieu
    -Military realities
          -Saigon
          -Vietcong
    -Vietnamization
-South Vietnamese Air Force
-Thieu’s intentions
    -Westmorland’s suspicions
-Sovereignty of South Vietnam
-Possible secret agreement
    -Possible bombing resumption
          -South Vietnamese Air Force
    -Withdrawal of North Vietnamese forces
-North Vietnamese POWs
-Bombing
-Additional military aid
-Withdrawal of military forces
-Sovereignty of South Vietnam
-US position
-Political realities
    -1972 election
          -Timing
-Control mechanisms of agreement
    -The President’s view
    -Cambodia, Laos
-Cambodia
    -US pressure on Lon Nol
    -Possible Military Action
    -The President’s view
-Laos
-Negotiations
-South Vietnamese morale
    -Thieu's Relations with US
-Thieu
    -The President’s view
          -Ngo Dinh Diem
    -South Vietnamese political stability

                                       (rev. Oct-06)

                     -Negotiations
                         -North Vietnamese message
                             -US Response

        Westmoreland's forthcoming speech in Dallas
           -Possible meeting with Lyndon B. Johnson
               -The President’s view

Westmoreland and Haig left at 10:35 am.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

they still like you know what is the situation
and how long they needed to include their needs.
They included their days on set time.
Henry's makes it easier and more amenable to understand those who are very concerned about their own safety.
He's forcing themselves into the recognition that we were wrong.
The ability to prevent cheating in a ceasefire situation, I think, is what's important.
The force of some of the folks adhering, not the enemy, not, not, you know, not.
And, yes, they're much less concerned about the, you know, the three-part commitment that some of the folks put up.
I think, you know, that's pretty good.
And it's not always that, you know, that...
That's not me.
That is, that's security.
Security.
Security.
I went over.
This is what, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
Thank you.
Okay, well, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
uh...
I think we've come down to about two.
We're going to settle that out of the way.
Yes, and we are adding 400 aircraft for it.
It was four to seven now.
We bought four of these.
We bought 400 aircraft.
And that's a nice amount of money.
That's a nice amount of money.
The Colt A5 is $135,000.
It's a big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big, big.
We also talk to light.
We talk to light.
We talk to light.
We talk to light.
We talk to light.
So we are consulting, so we've got a lot of scope and I think that's another factor that we should probably consider when it comes to the timing of the election.
We'll be there and they will help us on this.
You know, they want us to, you know, they're a group of persons who need to be there to do their thing.
They're a group of people who respect other people's goals.
They want us to do a lot of things.
At the present time, they might realize that they're not as important as they used to be.
They're much better on the theater than they used to be.
They're better people than they used to be.
They want to play with us.
They want to play with us.
They want to play with us.
They want to play with us.
They want to play with us.
They want to play with us.
They want to play with us.
I'm not talking about culture.
I'm not talking about the word.
I'm talking about the fact that we can do things the way that they would like, and that they don't have to do it here.
I'm not talking about that.
I'm not being honest with you.
I'm talking about this.
I'm not saying that God made us to do this.
We have been going through this place.
We've got to be honest with Christ.
We've got to be honest with Jesus.
We've got to be honest with Christ.
and they come up and down there and knock on the door.
I do that all the time.
I don't think they ever do.
Not for a while.
At the window, if they're comfortable, not to say, not to say if they do, if they do, they can't do it.
I mean, there's no, there's no restraint as far as the strength of the plan.
You've got to tell them, just as slowly as you can.
They break that door too very hard.
The other .
The other point is that the .
um, who's treating them.
They're both, um, I don't know, not too good.
But, you know, they're tired.
They're not going to be treated.
They're going to be out there.
People don't know what we're doing.
Their courage is the last thing we're going to do.
We've got to know what we're doing.
We've got to know what we're doing.
We've got to know what we're doing.
We've got to know what we're doing.
Or, it requires a different form of another person.
To me, it comes down to another type of event that they will come up with.
They will come up with a lot of new things, and a lot of new things.
And a lot of people are going to come up with new things.
And I get it.
It's very interesting.
Thank you.
which in effect means that the patient may encourage that we try to re-inspire the prevention and health of all of the patients and we have to have the return of all of the patients before and if we're not going to be able to do that, then we're not going to be able to do that.
Right?
And this is the goal of the patient.
We have to make it even.
We will be able to go to the hospital and be able to say that the patient is ready for the re-inspiring.
That's the way I see it.
No?
That is what I would ask you to do.
... ... ... ... ...
There we are, there's our stuff.
Well, let's start from that end.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Well, I feel we've got a whole bunch.
and I feel that it's going to be very effective for the future and we should very likely get an opportunity for a recession in the future.
But I don't think that's going to be very good.
We are not.
We've got a lot of fun fires and we've got fun.
No, no, it's very good.
It's just...
This proposition that they put forth is attractive except that I think it has to do with the fact that it has to do with the most services that the United States has ever made.
It has to do with the level of evidence.
uh, through, uh, through the office.
And I'm sure it was a very distinctive issue, and I, uh, I agree with the Chief of Police on that as well.
It seems to me that we should press for the State Department to, to accept the North Vietnam and the South Vietnam.
We realize that there's still Vietnam and South Vietnam, but this is the South Vietnamese problem, not at all the Asian problem.
and some concession by the field that he will attempt to arraign the political agreement with the indigenous communists in the south.
However, we must realize that space is all important.
And, uh, as far as the sound is concerned, and the noise is concerned.
And as far as the oxygen is going home, we've got the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
So it may be that I, I'll have to start to agree with that.
I know it's a mighty thing to have to agree with that.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
uh... uh... uh... uh... uh...
The Marquardt Company is a smart home and takes care of their own business and we help them to construct their country.
And South Vietnam is considered a sovereign country and it controls its sovereign territory.
If death was to come to that problem, I am sure you would agree, to try to work up some consolidation with the East Front.
But it's already an issue, which I think is a big problem.
Well, I agree with you.
What is the answer on that?
Well, the fact that the language is really the first issue.
Well, in the case of true size, we'll work it out.
uh... uh... uh... uh... uh...
whether you can do it in college or do it in college.
Well, I don't know.
I mean, I can't help but agree.
It's my private life.
I realize I had a lot of problems, but it's just me.
It's just a lot of problems.
It's just me.
It's just me.
It's just me.
It's just me.
the non-government government in Vietnam.
Correct.
Now, we can carry that to the extreme to the point where there's going to be a non-government government in Saigon itself, where the rest of the territory is controlled by the con-government.
And the point is, is to have a, I think, to interpret it by name.
A non-government government means a non-government government over the territory of South Vietnam.
uh, I don't know if this is typical or not, but, uh, if you, uh, want to go ahead and watch them, they're great, but my memory is, uh, comes from my, you know, both of those actions.
How, uh, we've got, we've still got, uh, uh, the organization was a success, uh, uh, uh, but we did a lot of, uh, I mean, the Air Force was nothing to, you know, not.
So, we were friends, we did a lot of things, uh, without the enemy's Air Force.
I think we were also friends.
Now, with all the traditional planes over there, this is the first captain I've ever seen.
But, yes, yes, we could roll on it.
Uh, uh, two more to lift it on, this time around.
Uh, and the engine doesn't break on it.
I am absolutely confident that they will, uh, agree to other concessions that will, uh, extend it.
full requirements, which will provide for, in my power level, long-term security.
Now I'm suspicious of, and very recently, the Sunnys, and it looks like they did the last communication.
Are they, I'm not going to call that right now, are they helping with this, right?
I'm not too sure if they are.
I don't have a lot of emotion about that.
I don't know.
I feel that there are some lack of other activities that we have to be very careful to do and to start blocking.
So I would come down on feel hard, feel hard in delivery.
uh... uh... uh... uh... uh...
some secret agreement that they provide the police of an agreement between us and those North Vietnamese troops will march home.
Now, I was advised that the North Vietnamese personnel chief that was on in North Vietnam, that was the North Vietnamese personnel chief that was on in Vietnam, was here.
the bombing of Vietnam.
The additional military aid was not given to them.
The military forces would be withdrawn.
In turn, the Gulf would have sovereignty over that territory.
And the Gulf of Vietnam would be able to
working through whatever conditions they want to set out to try to develop a political situation that would be cognizant of the Vietnam.
And I am, I compliment that we at Oregon have made a strong position of strength.
I agree with that.
I've been frightened about the end result of this.
And I, frankly, I, I, I couldn't do it any less.
It was a dangerous thing.
I'm sure the people served.
It was a great sacrifice.
Your political position, I say, your political position, uh, on the legal election is never strong.
I'd rather, I'd rather, I'd rather have the election.
That's the route I'm in, seriously.
I don't think that's a good one.
Well, I think it was a good one.
I think it was a good one.
So that is the problem.
I didn't move.
I didn't move for a variety of reasons.
I don't know what the problem is now.
Well, again, I don't think it was a good one.
I don't think it was a good one.
I think it was a good one.
... ... ... ... ... ... ...
The other client is free.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Well, he did report me a position, and I accepted his position, that he and I, and his military forces, and the police, and the officers, or Vietnam, were to throw out hostiles that are, uh, uh, endangering the peace, uh, in the Japanese territory.
And, uh, I, uh, I, uh, I totally agreed with his position, and I did not.
Now, there's a great tendency, of course, to control in terms of self-definition.
I really think we both have that in common, too.
And, of course, Campogia and McDonald's are also doing a good job.
I wouldn't worry as much if McDonald's were out, though, if what they say is not really going to be acceptable.
But I think if you have the atmosphere of being
some positions that if they do not do what they say they want to do, which are going to do something that would be inevitable for the ISF.
As far as capabilities in charge, I don't know.
I don't know.
That's the situation.
I would suspect that there may have been a lot of issues with the technology.
A lot of issues, you know, with all the AMAs and all the other programs and all the AMAs that are taking advantage of the job territory in Cambodia.
Now, I would hate to see it.
But all of our strengths in Cambodia, I think we're going to have to continue to be very long-term.
And we have no intention of doing that.
But we've got to do more.
We've got to do more.
We've got to do more.
We've got to do more.
Well, I'm glad that we did it.
We did it.
We did it.
We did it.
We did it.
We did it.
We did it.
We did it.
But, uh,
Oh, we're good then.
Yeah, man.
It was just, uh, we should keep them in mind.
But I take care of them.
So, in summary, Mr. President, I think we owe a whole new lot.
And we deliver it.
And I appreciate it.
We appreciate it.
Thank you.
And, uh, uh, we did two sessions with him.
It was one of the eight sessions that I had with him 24 times.
And, uh, such, uh, end result was being, uh, involved in, uh, I'm not sure, but, uh, with every man.
And, uh, involved in, I guess, a couple of, uh, you know, come along with it.
Yeah.
And, uh, let me make one final point.
The psychological situation, uh, in South Carolina is very important.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
You know, uh, a lot of people, uh, a lot of people, uh,
I don't know.
That is a tremendous level of what I am not into in the world of art or philosophy.
I don't want to get into that.
I'm not into that at all.
But I didn't find anything to do with it.
We went out of our way to create some questions.
And I'm kind of careful with whatever people find interesting.
I know Q probably better than anyone.
And he's a very proud man.
But there's nobody who seems to like Q.
He had a great son.
He was the only leader.
He's a hell of a leader.
He might have been there for a week to replace him.
But he had come out with him.
He stood up against the pressure.
He said, you know what I want?
He is going to be the leader in the fight for many years to come.
But, if he comes out of it, he's a hard worker, he's a good man, and he is a tough, brave man.
Well, my idea is that we're going to need to put our faith in him, so it's a questionable, affordable opportunity.
And then, of course, we have to be in line.
So, I'm not going to stay ahead.
I'm not going to stay ahead.
I'm going to stay ahead.
I'm going to stay ahead.
... ... ... ...
and he won't know part of it.
And I come back to the ruling on any point.
He should not be a part of it, too, in agreeing with the comments that I made in the first election, which the comments were expressing to have it to do.
and I don't like to believe in that.
To hear them about that, you know, it was fresh and fresh to me.
You know what I mean?
And I think the purpose of those, I think it would be effective.
Short range and long range.
Because it's going to play in the hands of, you know, for the moment, for the fact that they're not actually going to...
Thank you.
I think I want to share a question.
I've done a few things about the connection to death and certainly the connection to the present time.
But I would like to ask you, in regards to, I would like to ask you, in regards to the conference, whether you would like to make it as long-term or as long as you can, whether you would like to make it as long-term or as long as you can,
I feel like we should, for example, let's say, well, I'll call that gallery, but the problem is we have those numbers.
I mean, I don't know why I'm saying this, but I didn't know how to do that.
And I shared this with my wife.
And I know how to do this.
And she said to me, I'm like, how is it possible?
There you go.
It's possible.
It's possible.
My hair now, so it goes on the side.