{"conversationCode":"371-019","tapeNumber":371,"conversationNumber":19,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-371-019","startDateTime":"1972-10-23T12:34:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-10-23T13:17:00.000Z","startDate":"23-Oct-1972","startTime":"8:34 AM","endDate":"23-Oct-1972","endTime":"9:17 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haig, Alexander M., Jr.;","description":"On October 23, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 8:34 am to 9:17 am. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 371-019 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 371-19\n\nDate: October 23, 1972\nTime: 8:34 am - 9:17 am\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.\n\n        File of messages between Henry A. Kissinger and the White House\n             -The President’s request\n                 -The President’s schedule\n                     -Nassau\n\n        Vietnam\n            -Peace settlement negotiations\n                -Haig's conversation with Anatoliy F. Dobrynin, October\n                 22, 1972\n                     -Possible additional changes\n                         -Kissinger's Message\n                -Kissinger’s relations with Haig\n                     -Haig’s conversation with the President\n                -Possible bombing halt and reduction of bombing\n                     -The President's telephone call to William P. Rogers, October 22, 1972\n                -1972 election\n                     -Importance for US Foreign Policy\n                         -Soviet Union, the People's Republic China [PRC]\n                -Survival of South Vietnam\n                     -Prospects\n                         -The President’s view\n                     -PRC\n                     -South Korea\n\n         -Taiwan, Republic of China\n         -Japan, Indonesia, Thailand\n    -1972 Election\n         -Appearance of influence\n              -Possible dumping [of Thieu]\n    -Kissinger’s views and efforts\n         -The President's Visit to Soviet Union May 1972\n         -Roger’s comments\n              -The President’s schedule, October 24, 1972\n                  -Photograph session\n    -Kissinger's conversation with Thieu\n    -Kissinger’s possible trip to Hanoi\n    -Haig's conversation with Dobrynin\n         -Possible Paris meeting\n              -Le Duc Tho\n         - Pressure on Thieu\n    -The President's conversation with Rogers\n         - Thieu’s role\n              -Roger’s previous conversation with Haig\n              -U. Alexis Johnson\n              -William H. Sullivan\n    -Roger’s view\n         -PRC\n    -US Casualties\n         -The President’s view\n         -Communist domination of Eastern Europe after World\n          War II\n-Gen. William C. Westmoreland's view\n-Military's view\n-Peace settlement negotiations\n    -Changes in possible settlement\n         -Thieu\n              -North Vietnamese forces in South Vietnam\n    -Possible US announcement of bilateral agreement with North Vietnam\n         -Kissinger\n         -Thieu\n              -Public pressure\n         -1972 Election\n              -Thieu’s leverage\n              -Kissinger’s view\n              -The President’s view\n\n                  -Terms\n                       -Withdrawal if US forces\n                       -Stopping of US bombing, mining\n                       -Prisoners of war [POWs]\n                       -North Vietnamese withdrawal from Cambodia and Laos\n                       -US aid to South Vietnam\n                            -Soviet Union aid to North Vietnam\n    -Duration of War\n        -January 1, 1973\n        -Views of American People\n              -Thieu\n    -Thieu’s role\n        -Haig's conversation with Dobrynin\n        -Newspaper headlines\n        -Thieu’s distrust of Kissinger and communists\n              -Communist strategy\n              -Cease-fire\n                  -Document capture\n    -Post-1972 election\n        -Possible ultimatum to Thieu by the President\n              -Kissinger\n    -Cease-fire\n        -Kissinger\n    -Possible presentation of fait accompli\n    -Haig's conversation with Dobrynin\n        -North Vietnamese actions\n              -Public relations\n    -Negotiation record\n        -The President’s request\n    -Kissinger conversation with Thieu\n-U.S. Military Policy\n    -May 8, 1972 decision to bomb Hanoi and mine Haiphong Harbor\n        -The President's conversation with Kissinger\n        -The President's visit to Soviet Union, May 1972\n              -Possible cancellation of Soviet summit\n                  -John B. Connally's previous views\n                  -North Vietnamese Spring 1972 offensive\n                  -The President’s view\n        -Kissinger’s view\n        -Views of Central Intelligence Agency [CIA], National Security Council\n        [NSC]\n\n            -Kissinger's Views\n            -John Negroponte’s views\n            -Winston Lord's view\n            -Kissinger's views\n                -Cambodia\n                -Compared with the President, Connally\n                -PRC. Soviet Union policy\n            -Bombing and mining\n                -effect on negotiations\n                -Adm. Thomas H. Moorer's views\n                -CIA's views\n                -Effect on North Vietnam\n                     -News stories\n                -Views of the American people\n                     -Connally's view\n                -The President's conversation with H.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman\n    -PRC, Soviet Union\n\nKissinger\n    -The President’s view\n        -Associates\n\nVietnam\n    -Peace settlement negotiations\n        -The President's forthcoming meeting With Rogers\n             -Haig’s possible conversation with Kissinger\n                 -State Department Bureaucracy\n        -Leaks\n             -The President’s view\n                 -State Department\n                 -Hanoi\n             -Kissinger's Views\n                 -State Department\n                 -Secrecy\n        -Marvin L. Kalb\n        -Rogers\n        -Melvin R. Laird\n        -The President's conversation with Rogers October 22, 1972\n             -Korean concerns\n                 -Thieu\n                      -Park Chung Hee\n\n              -Fear of US abandonment\n    -Cease-fire\n         -Psychological importance\n              -Thieu\n              -Victory\n    -Haig's conversation with Kissinger\n         -Timing\n         -North Vietnamese troops in South Vietnam\n         -Thieu’s cooperation\n         -Settlement conditions\n    -North Vietnamese position\n         -1972 election\n         -Polls\n              -Possible release of settlement offer\n              -Haig's conversation with Dobrynin October 22, 1972\n    -McGovern’s campaign\n         -Thieu’s future\n         -Haig's conversation with Charles W. Colson\n    -The President’s schedule, October 22, 1972\n         -Announcement\n              -Rogers\n              -Timing\n    -Laird\n    -Prisoners of war [POWs]\n    -North Vietnamese intentions\n-Possible US bombing halt\n    -Assistance to South Vietnam\n    -The President’s instructions\n    -20th parallel\n    -North Vietnam\n         -Gen. John D. Lavelle\n              -Protective reaction\n                   -The President's orders to Laird\n              -Falsification of records\n              -Targets\n                   -Surface to air missiles [SAMs]\n              -Falsification of records\n              -The President’s instructions\n              -POWs\n         -Mining and Bombing\n              -Cambodia, Laos\n\n                          -POWs\n                          -Cease-fire\n             -Peace settlement negotiations\n                 -Control of territory provisions\n                      -Thieu\n                 -Communist representation in South Vietnamese National Assembly\n                      -Compared to France, Italy\n                 -Thieu\n                      -Possible meeting with the President\n                          -Timing compared with 1972 election\n                          -Congress\n                               -Funding\n\n         Football game\n             -Washington Redskins\n                  -White House television capability\n                  -Comparison with Dallas Cowboys\n                  -Larry Brown\n\nHaig left at 9:17 am.","filename":["371-019a.mp3","371-019b.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Haig, Alexander M., Jr."],"prevCode":"371-018","nextCode":"371-020","transcript":[{"start":3.54,"end":25.67,"text":"The one thing I'd like to do is get a collection of files, messages, and ourselves here so that I can have a feel of the state of the way of all of this.","speaker":null},{"start":25.69,"end":26.65,"text":"I don't have any chat, but I have to discuss it.","speaker":null},{"start":26.67,"end":27.15,"text":"That's why it's perfect.","speaker":null},{"start":30.09,"end":54.06,"text":"He said, I don't need that anymore.","speaker":null},{"start":54.08,"end":55.5,"text":"And in fact, I'm a national, but I just want to have it with this file.","speaker":null},{"start":55.52,"end":56.6,"text":"Or you might need to have it wrapped together with it.","speaker":null},{"start":56.62,"end":57.28,"text":"And I can see the money for that.","speaker":null},{"start":57.3,"end":58.48,"text":"And I just want to have it wrapped together with this file.","speaker":null},{"start":58.51,"end":59.69,"text":"And I just want to have it wrapped together with this file.","speaker":null},{"start":60.59,"end":83.63,"text":"He, uh, he said the big question was, were you going to try to get him to make more changes than just put back up a three-time additional concession so that he could, to the end of the fourth of the fourth.","speaker":null},{"start":83.65,"end":84.31,"text":"And I saw a lot from that answer.","speaker":null},{"start":84.33,"end":84.89,"text":"And it's a good thing I did.","speaker":null},{"start":84.91,"end":86.35,"text":"Because, uh, this morning I heard something that was pretty close to me.","speaker":null},{"start":87.46,"end":105.75,"text":"So the changes you need in agreement are in my view all attainable.","speaker":null},{"start":105.77,"end":107.03,"text":"There's nothing like the magnitude that we've already achieved.","speaker":null},{"start":107.05,"end":107.81,"text":"It will be the most solid we've taken.","speaker":null},{"start":107.83,"end":108.87,"text":"It's like the changes most of the research has made.","speaker":null},{"start":108.89,"end":109.57,"text":"It's going to be our final system.","speaker":null},{"start":109.59,"end":110.36,"text":"And things will take place all around.","speaker":null},{"start":110.38,"end":111,"text":"Yeah, well that's what we need.","speaker":null},{"start":111.02,"end":111.16,"text":"Thanks.","speaker":null},{"start":111.49,"end":135.13,"text":"Now, it doesn't make any sense whether it's true or not, but it's going to be said exactly the same thing.","speaker":null},{"start":135.15,"end":136.61,"text":"So if you go in and ask for other changes, that's the highest of nowhere.","speaker":null},{"start":136.63,"end":137.55,"text":"So that's very difficult to write on a bucket.","speaker":null},{"start":137.57,"end":139.74,"text":"Now, Henry's dad told me, because I've done a couple of classes, that this would be pretty much both people.","speaker":null},{"start":139.75,"end":140.22,"text":"Pretty close, you know.","speaker":null},{"start":140.9,"end":165.83,"text":"I called Rocky West and I'm preparing for the bedroom.","speaker":null},{"start":165.85,"end":166.27,"text":"He's coming to leave.","speaker":null},{"start":166.29,"end":167.57,"text":"And I said, now, if you don't believe me, I'm talking about you.","speaker":null},{"start":172.29,"end":192.47,"text":"Well, we need to do it.","speaker":null},{"start":192.49,"end":192.83,"text":"We need to do it.","speaker":null},{"start":192.85,"end":193.23,"text":"We need to stop it.","speaker":null},{"start":193.25,"end":193.63,"text":"We need to stop it.","speaker":null},{"start":193.65,"end":194.03,"text":"We need to stop it.","speaker":null},{"start":194.05,"end":194.43,"text":"We need to stop it.","speaker":null},{"start":195.59,"end":209.5,"text":"If we do, we'll never forgive ourselves.","speaker":null},{"start":209.52,"end":210.2,"text":"That's the thing that concerns me.","speaker":null},{"start":210.22,"end":212,"text":"You know, Henry, of course, is all tired of the maintenance stuff and so forth and so on.","speaker":null},{"start":212.02,"end":212.21,"text":"I am too.","speaker":null},{"start":212.22,"end":214.71,"text":"And I know, I know that when they play the big game, you know, that Moscow, you see, they get this damn thing on their back.","speaker":null},{"start":214.73,"end":215.19,"text":"I know all the hazards.","speaker":null},{"start":215.17,"end":235.19,"text":"But I also know that we're in an indelible position, a place where we just might make a settlement so we win the election.","speaker":null},{"start":235.21,"end":237.27,"text":"So while that's going to crack, and we may have to do it, the question is whether we're going to do it.","speaker":null},{"start":237.29,"end":239.48,"text":"And in the South, you know, there's a couple of women all over the world who are going to have repercussions.","speaker":null},{"start":239.5,"end":240.96,"text":"That's going to have their stories on us, on the United States, you know.","speaker":null},{"start":241.29,"end":256.2,"text":"We've got to put a call to house manager on everyone.","speaker":null},{"start":256.22,"end":257.96,"text":"This has got to be done in a way that we dare to stop getting on any chance to survive.","speaker":null},{"start":257.98,"end":258.7,"text":"And I just thought I'd ride forever.","speaker":null},{"start":258.72,"end":259.62,"text":"And they've got to survive a reasonable time.","speaker":null},{"start":259.64,"end":261.25,"text":"And I think everybody will say, well, God, I don't want to be in that apartment.","speaker":null},{"start":261.27,"end":261.63,"text":"See what I can do.","speaker":null},{"start":261.65,"end":262.51,"text":"It's the immediate problem that worries me.","speaker":null},{"start":263.13,"end":280.12,"text":"I don't know that South Vietnam can ever survive in the end.","speaker":null},{"start":280.13,"end":282.26,"text":"In fact, if you look at China and all the rest of the states, I don't know that Korea can survive forever.","speaker":null},{"start":282.28,"end":282.62,"text":"Certainly Taiwan.","speaker":null},{"start":282.64,"end":284.62,"text":"I don't know that the whole Southeast Asia forever may not come under whatever we've said about it.","speaker":null},{"start":284.64,"end":286.02,"text":"Under Chinese competition, I mean, we might know that Japan will not.","speaker":null},{"start":286.04,"end":286.61,"text":"In the next year, who knows?","speaker":null},{"start":286.97,"end":306.27,"text":"I don't will.","speaker":null},{"start":306.29,"end":306.91,"text":"The point is, it's got to come.","speaker":null},{"start":306.93,"end":307.23,"text":"It's all a way.","speaker":null},{"start":307.25,"end":307.69,"text":"It's a story of a way.","speaker":null},{"start":307.71,"end":308.81,"text":"And what we've got to do here is a critical thing here.","speaker":null},{"start":308.83,"end":309.68,"text":"And this is where the election team comes.","speaker":null},{"start":309.69,"end":310.19,"text":"And that must not appear.","speaker":null},{"start":310.21,"end":311.08,"text":"And for a single election reason, we don't.","speaker":null},{"start":311.1,"end":312.06,"text":"I don't be concerned at all about the democracy.","speaker":null},{"start":312.08,"end":312.44,"text":"I understand that.","speaker":null},{"start":312.46,"end":313,"text":"I know what it's all about.","speaker":null},{"start":313.5,"end":329.96,"text":"I assure you, sir, and thank God that you never, apparently I was the one that...","speaker":null},{"start":331.03,"end":349.67,"text":"and I just want to prove that you were a good commander and I can't accept the fact that you weren't a good commander.","speaker":null},{"start":349.69,"end":350.25,"text":"What is the matter with you?","speaker":null},{"start":350.27,"end":351.95,"text":"You're out of his mind and he's going to fight everyone because of this idea of his.","speaker":null},{"start":351.98,"end":352.56,"text":"And by God, he gets her life.","speaker":null},{"start":352.57,"end":353.3,"text":"And it was a great occasion for him.","speaker":null},{"start":353.32,"end":353.92,"text":"And it was when he was killed.","speaker":null},{"start":353.94,"end":355.28,"text":"And now he knows there's someone there and he's talking to himself.","speaker":null},{"start":355.3,"end":356.3,"text":"And I don't know why he's fighting because of you.","speaker":null},{"start":356.84,"end":367.16,"text":"We'd yell at them for a yard, and they'd take a look and say, what are you doing?","speaker":null},{"start":367.18,"end":367.72,"text":"And I'd say, is that a hit?","speaker":null},{"start":367.74,"end":368.86,"text":"You know, it's something that takes a lot of confidence.","speaker":null},{"start":368.88,"end":370.13,"text":"And the interesting thing is, the garage is always a constant.","speaker":null},{"start":370.15,"end":370.73,"text":"It's a constant all the time.","speaker":null},{"start":370.93,"end":391.92,"text":"I must be terribly tired and all that.","speaker":null},{"start":391.94,"end":393.24,"text":"See, I said to Bill, I said, no, that's not critical of anything.","speaker":null},{"start":393.26,"end":396.06,"text":"What I'm trying to do is to get him to do what I want, not because I want him to sit away from me, but because I want him to do what I want.","speaker":null},{"start":396.08,"end":396.92,"text":"Actually, I found a place I can marry him.","speaker":null},{"start":396.94,"end":397.64,"text":"And you and I want to have a birth.","speaker":null},{"start":397.66,"end":399.19,"text":"I think we ought to have a lot of issues between marriage and middle school.","speaker":null},{"start":399.21,"end":400.21,"text":"And I hope that we are going to take care of that.","speaker":null},{"start":401.74,"end":423.02,"text":"I don't think we can grab that opportunity.","speaker":null},{"start":423.04,"end":423.56,"text":"I don't know if you agree.","speaker":null},{"start":423.58,"end":424.14,"text":"No, I don't agree with that.","speaker":null},{"start":424.16,"end":425.81,"text":"I think that there is plenty, you know, a part of the service that we're carrying.","speaker":null},{"start":425.83,"end":426.45,"text":"And, uh, we may need to get it.","speaker":null},{"start":426.47,"end":427.15,"text":"We're going to ride right through.","speaker":null},{"start":427.17,"end":428.09,"text":"Uh, you know, that would be the biggest thing.","speaker":null},{"start":428.11,"end":428.67,"text":"And he, he said, we got you.","speaker":null},{"start":428.69,"end":428.89,"text":"Well done.","speaker":null},{"start":428.91,"end":429.11,"text":"Well done.","speaker":null},{"start":429.13,"end":429.77,"text":"He, uh, he didn't give any more.","speaker":null},{"start":429.79,"end":430.51,"text":"But, uh, he promised to take it out.","speaker":null},{"start":430.53,"end":430.63,"text":"Yeah.","speaker":null},{"start":430.65,"end":431.29,"text":"And that's what we're all about.","speaker":null},{"start":431.76,"end":448.33,"text":"We talked about it.","speaker":null},{"start":448.35,"end":448.73,"text":"We talked about it.","speaker":null},{"start":448.75,"end":450.05,"text":"And now we've got a way to figure out what it is that's going on.","speaker":null},{"start":450.07,"end":452.36,"text":"Yes, what we would like to do is, you know, and this I agree with completely, and that's what we would like to do.","speaker":null},{"start":452.38,"end":453.68,"text":"And so I asked the Brits to get another meeting with me in Paris.","speaker":null},{"start":453.7,"end":454.9,"text":"It was like I said, that's what the problem is inside of us.","speaker":null},{"start":455.71,"end":477.08,"text":"Right.","speaker":null},{"start":477.1,"end":479.49,"text":"Right.","speaker":null},{"start":480.31,"end":498.66,"text":"But I also want to go around and say something about Bill.","speaker":null},{"start":498.68,"end":501.08,"text":"I don't want anything out of the State Department to say that she was the boss of the police when he was on the capitol.","speaker":null},{"start":501.1,"end":502.34,"text":"But he was already on that capitol when he was on the capitol.","speaker":null},{"start":502.36,"end":503.26,"text":"I was trying to run him around the other way.","speaker":null},{"start":503.28,"end":504.51,"text":"I said, uh, he said, oh, nobody here knows about me and Alan.","speaker":null},{"start":504.53,"end":505.09,"text":"I said, what about Sullivan?","speaker":null},{"start":505.11,"end":505.85,"text":"She said, well, Sullivan's all right.","speaker":null},{"start":505.87,"end":506.51,"text":"I said, well, do you understand?","speaker":null},{"start":506.53,"end":507.55,"text":"Let's not make it appear that she was the obstacle.","speaker":null},{"start":507.57,"end":508.09,"text":"We've got to play with it.","speaker":null},{"start":508.11,"end":509.15,"text":"We've got to make sure it doesn't matter to anybody.","speaker":null},{"start":509.13,"end":527.44,"text":"So I think I got Taylor to watch me pretty well.","speaker":null},{"start":527.46,"end":528.14,"text":"I think he was well-placed before.","speaker":null},{"start":528.16,"end":529.04,"text":"He came out and said, I think he feels good.","speaker":null},{"start":529.06,"end":529.5,"text":"I think he feels good.","speaker":null},{"start":529.52,"end":530.76,"text":"You know, he will get some crap around the rest of the league.","speaker":null},{"start":530.78,"end":531.76,"text":"But when he looks at the play, it's a good thing.","speaker":null},{"start":531.78,"end":533.07,"text":"He shouldn't be the kind of person to play at David's best time.","speaker":null},{"start":534.17,"end":555.22,"text":"He knows that we can't, you know, we suffer too much.","speaker":null},{"start":555.24,"end":556.08,"text":"There are 55,000 Americans dead out, dead.","speaker":null},{"start":556.1,"end":557.04,"text":"Goddamn, we're not going to let those guys die.","speaker":null},{"start":557.06,"end":557.66,"text":"And they're just pissing away.","speaker":null},{"start":557.68,"end":558.81,"text":"We need Eastern Europe for the goddamn communist actors.","speaker":null},{"start":558.83,"end":559.71,"text":"350,000 Americans were dead in World War II.","speaker":null},{"start":559.73,"end":560.53,"text":"They were fighting the local communists.","speaker":null},{"start":560.55,"end":561.39,"text":"They were fighting the same kind of thing.","speaker":null},{"start":561.41,"end":562.33,"text":"Goddamn it, we are not going to do this again.","speaker":null},{"start":562.35,"end":562.73,"text":"That's my feelings.","speaker":null},{"start":563,"end":583.12,"text":"That's my feeling.","speaker":null},{"start":583.14,"end":584.36,"text":"I don't, I mean, I don't, I don't agree with what's going on.","speaker":null},{"start":584.38,"end":585.25,"text":"We've been fighting for two or three years.","speaker":null},{"start":585.26,"end":586.17,"text":"I don't, part of the problem here is Army.","speaker":null},{"start":586.19,"end":586.73,"text":"Army and Air Force do well.","speaker":null},{"start":586.75,"end":587.07,"text":"And they do too.","speaker":null},{"start":587.09,"end":587.65,"text":"They're sort of a whack guy.","speaker":null},{"start":587.67,"end":588.71,"text":"You know, they just give up all the stuff out there.","speaker":null},{"start":588.73,"end":589.57,"text":"They've got a real war going on out there.","speaker":null},{"start":589.59,"end":590.93,"text":"So, for God's sake, they've got to get that out of their heads too.","speaker":null},{"start":590.95,"end":591.31,"text":"This thing's over.","speaker":null},{"start":591.33,"end":591.53,"text":"It's over.","speaker":null},{"start":591.55,"end":591.75,"text":"It's over.","speaker":null},{"start":591.77,"end":592.09,"text":"Everybody knows.","speaker":null},{"start":592.11,"end":592.31,"text":"It's over.","speaker":null},{"start":592.99,"end":614.75,"text":"It's over a minute before we could have gotten anything turned off.","speaker":null},{"start":614.77,"end":615.67,"text":"And I think we've got the basis for doing it.","speaker":null},{"start":615.7,"end":616.48,"text":"And it's been established for a second.","speaker":null},{"start":616.5,"end":617.48,"text":"And we've got to keep working on this bunch here.","speaker":null},{"start":617.5,"end":618.16,"text":"And I think we've got to do less.","speaker":null},{"start":618.18,"end":618.72,"text":"Nothing else can come back.","speaker":null},{"start":618.74,"end":619.22,"text":"And then the other side.","speaker":null},{"start":619.24,"end":620.1,"text":"And they can do whatever they want with it.","speaker":null},{"start":620.12,"end":621.74,"text":"And they may not accept changes that they think they could help you with tonight.","speaker":null},{"start":621.76,"end":622.06,"text":"Or to this day.","speaker":null},{"start":624.29,"end":643.39,"text":"But there's also a possibility that if we talk about it very long term, we could then","speaker":null},{"start":644.22,"end":664.54,"text":"But at two, I think.","speaker":null},{"start":665.08,"end":686.51,"text":"He's clever enough to know that he's got us over a barrel to an extent.","speaker":null},{"start":686.53,"end":688.76,"text":"I know they've got us over a barrel enough to run, but after the election, Chew has got to look at his options.","speaker":null},{"start":688.78,"end":689.48,"text":"That's why I make a private effort.","speaker":null},{"start":689.5,"end":690.92,"text":"I make a private effort and say, all right, we're going to finish this.","speaker":null},{"start":690.94,"end":691.64,"text":"Then if he says no, oh, I won't go.","speaker":null},{"start":691.66,"end":691.88,"text":"Then we do.","speaker":null},{"start":691.9,"end":692.26,"text":"I perfectly agree.","speaker":null},{"start":692.28,"end":693.68,"text":"The next time we talk about it now, the hemorrhage I get doing it now,","speaker":null},{"start":694.52,"end":706.73,"text":"So I'm going to tell you a little bit, don't mis-spread that.","speaker":null},{"start":706.75,"end":708.21,"text":"If I think he planned to mis-spread that, or what I did, that's not true.","speaker":null},{"start":708.23,"end":709.32,"text":"But he had planned to do this over the very long term.","speaker":null},{"start":709.34,"end":710.88,"text":"In fact, since I went back to my friends, he probably got me to mention that.","speaker":null},{"start":710.9,"end":713.1,"text":"He said, all right, in the case that we have, if he was planning to stir me here, he would not have done that.","speaker":null},{"start":715.84,"end":735.53,"text":"It wasn't anything.","speaker":null},{"start":735.55,"end":737.21,"text":"You know, he's tired, and he's tired, and he doesn't get any communication from it.","speaker":null},{"start":737.23,"end":737.73,"text":"But don't worry about it.","speaker":null},{"start":737.75,"end":738.27,"text":"It's all right over there.","speaker":null},{"start":738.29,"end":738.59,"text":"It's all right.","speaker":null},{"start":738.61,"end":739.67,"text":"It's much, much more important and smaller than that.","speaker":null},{"start":739.7,"end":741.3,"text":"Now, there's another possibility, and I think you're actually very self-created.","speaker":null},{"start":741.32,"end":741.86,"text":"You start to squeeze the...","speaker":null},{"start":744.94,"end":765.09,"text":"And we're trying to work our way through and stop the bombing.","speaker":null},{"start":765.11,"end":765.97,"text":"And we've made a long-term plan to do this.","speaker":null},{"start":765.99,"end":766.85,"text":"And we've made a long-term plan to do this.","speaker":null},{"start":766.87,"end":767.73,"text":"And we've made a 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one.","speaker":null},{"start":794.12,"end":795.64,"text":"And if we would, we would, we would not say that, but we'll be doing a shot.","speaker":null},{"start":795.66,"end":796.48,"text":"Well, our, our, our aid to them would be,","speaker":null},{"start":796.46,"end":818.87,"text":"related to what facilities are submerged in the other side.","speaker":null},{"start":818.89,"end":819.59,"text":"We might put that down in the bank.","speaker":null},{"start":819.61,"end":820.23,"text":"I'd say that it's a heavy task.","speaker":null},{"start":820.25,"end":821.35,"text":"It's got some real work in it, but it is a possibility.","speaker":null},{"start":821.37,"end":823.37,"text":"Now, the board has got to be in there to discuss the end of reporting for a few years and like that.","speaker":null},{"start":823.39,"end":824.29,"text":"Is there going to be another time they can't?","speaker":null},{"start":824.32,"end":825.36,"text":"Otherwise, they'll drag on through the previous one.","speaker":null},{"start":825.38,"end":825.68,"text":"Well, they can.","speaker":null},{"start":826.04,"end":846.29,"text":"There's a kill here.","speaker":null},{"start":846.31,"end":848.97,"text":"I don't give a damn how much you win the election, but if you get killed, if the people don't want it, they can't even fight for you.","speaker":null},{"start":848.99,"end":849.61,"text":"That's what it will affect you.","speaker":null},{"start":849.63,"end":850.05,"text":"You should leave now.","speaker":null},{"start":850.07,"end":850.27,"text":"All right.","speaker":null},{"start":850.29,"end":851.34,"text":"Well, that's, you know, that's where you have to go.","speaker":null},{"start":851.36,"end":851.92,"text":"That's where you have to go.","speaker":null},{"start":851.94,"end":852.5,"text":"That's where you have to go.","speaker":null},{"start":852.52,"end":853.08,"text":"That's where you have to go.","speaker":null},{"start":853.1,"end":853.66,"text":"That's where you have to go.","speaker":null},{"start":853.68,"end":854.24,"text":"That's where you have to go.","speaker":null},{"start":854.26,"end":854.82,"text":"That's where you have to go.","speaker":null},{"start":856.55,"end":873.06,"text":"That's perfectly fine.","speaker":null},{"start":873.08,"end":874.67,"text":"I'm just telling you, you ought to be seeing some of the headlines around here.","speaker":null},{"start":874.69,"end":874.95,"text":"I don't mind.","speaker":null},{"start":874.97,"end":876.43,"text":"Well, I wanted to say that I'd like to explain that the story is not bad.","speaker":null},{"start":876.45,"end":877.87,"text":"In fact, it's one of the many things to consider before you go to work.","speaker":null},{"start":878.29,"end":899.78,"text":"What do you think?","speaker":null},{"start":899.8,"end":900.22,"text":"I don't hear so much.","speaker":null},{"start":900.24,"end":901.24,"text":"Part of the problem is that he doesn't have 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right.","speaker":null},{"start":1111.42,"end":1134.17,"text":"we were going to cancel the summit.","speaker":null},{"start":1134.19,"end":1136.97,"text":"Now, the reason to do that was to say that, uh, that the government was going to cancel the summit, and we were going to cancel the summit.","speaker":null},{"start":1136.99,"end":1139.38,"text":"And, uh, we were going to announce to you that we were going to cancel the summit, and then we started talking to Mike.","speaker":null},{"start":1139.4,"end":1140.28,"text":"Now, I mean, we were settled on that course.","speaker":null},{"start":1140.88,"end":1160.37,"text":"Because of Henry's point of view that we cannot go to Moscow.","speaker":null},{"start":1160.39,"end":1160.73,"text":"He used them too.","speaker":null},{"start":1160.75,"end":1161.8,"text":"He wanted to get Bob high where they can't send him.","speaker":null},{"start":1161.82,"end":1162.42,"text":"Second, we can't go to 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uh,","speaker":null},{"start":1958.54,"end":1971.16,"text":"and I'm getting a little distracted because I don't know how long that I want to play.","speaker":null},{"start":1971.18,"end":1972.02,"text":"I don't know how long that I want to play.","speaker":null},{"start":1972.04,"end":1972.88,"text":"I don't know how long that I want to play.","speaker":null},{"start":1972.91,"end":1973.75,"text":"I don't know how long that I want to play.","speaker":null},{"start":1975.63,"end":2003.92,"text":"we're not going to announce it after we're not going to announce it before we announce it after we don't build up a big picture like I think we'll be a community company that's not a great deal sir that's good now what about players you know they're important to you yeah","speaker":null},{"start":2004.19,"end":2029.22,"text":"Yes, he's been around, and I've been talking to him over the last nine years, one day, and they haven't worked in time.","speaker":null},{"start":2029.24,"end":2030.64,"text":"But I do think, you know, that it works, and I don't know if it works.","speaker":null},{"start":2030.66,"end":2032.94,"text":"Well, you know, I don't want to be pressuring you about this, but I think what we've got to say then is thank you.","speaker":null},{"start":2033.26,"end":2054.35,"text":"All they said, they had not been.","speaker":null},{"start":2054.37,"end":2054.73,"text":"They had not been.","speaker":null},{"start":2054.75,"end":2055.11,"text":"They had not been.","speaker":null},{"start":2055.13,"end":2055.49,"text":"They had not been.","speaker":null},{"start":2055.51,"end":2055.87,"text":"They had not been.","speaker":null},{"start":2055.89,"end":2056.25,"text":"They had not been.","speaker":null},{"start":2056.67,"end":2073.11,"text":"I don't want that to escalate itself.","speaker":null},{"start":2073.09,"end":2088.09,"text":"In the south, we have got to help you.","speaker":null},{"start":2088.11,"end":2088.69,"text":"We've done just the opposite.","speaker":null},{"start":2088.72,"end":2090.26,"text":"We've stepped off the line and said, all right, all right, I've got to do it.","speaker":null},{"start":2090.28,"end":2090.92,"text":"Well, I want to make a question.","speaker":null},{"start":2090.94,"end":2091.36,"text":"That's exactly right.","speaker":null},{"start":2091.38,"end":2091.62,"text":"That's true.","speaker":null},{"start":2091.64,"end":2092.22,"text":"Well, I put the moment on it.","speaker":null},{"start":2092.24,"end":2093.32,"text":"And it's part of this rally that I'm in right now.","speaker":null},{"start":2093.3,"end":2102.87,"text":"There's not going to be any escalators in the south.","speaker":null},{"start":2102.89,"end":2104.58,"text":"There's going to be fragments in the south that are not supposed to be in the south.","speaker":null},{"start":2104.6,"end":2105.34,"text":"The north is going to be an elephant.","speaker":null},{"start":2105.36,"end":2105.7,"text":"So we're waiting.","speaker":null},{"start":2105.72,"end":2106.72,"text":"We're waiting for anything to happen in the south.","speaker":null},{"start":2107.28,"end":2125.63,"text":"Are you waiting?","speaker":null},{"start":2125.65,"end":2126.69,"text":"Because this is one of the biggest problems we have.","speaker":null},{"start":2126.71,"end":2127.67,"text":"So when they said, you know, like, for how long?","speaker":null},{"start":2127.69,"end":2128.31,"text":"For how long does it only mean?","speaker":null},{"start":2128.34,"end":2129.32,"text":"And then we decide how they're going to apply it.","speaker":null},{"start":2129.34,"end":2132.42,"text":"But we're not saying, you know, we're not saying that, you know, that the analysis actually, I believe, they don't want to take that for a couple of days.","speaker":null},{"start":2132.44,"end":2134.7,"text":"I mean, we'll simply say, well, this is a, we've got another period because there's, there's, there's no problem.","speaker":null},{"start":2134.72,"end":2135.66,"text":"So, you know, you can just say, well, you know,","speaker":null},{"start":2137.18,"end":2150.74,"text":"You know what I'm saying?","speaker":null},{"start":2150.76,"end":2153.26,"text":"I will never go along with talking to doctors or reporting about myself or what I've done or what I've done.","speaker":null},{"start":2153.28,"end":2155.54,"text":"I'm not going to be able to pour them a crack at my horseshoe or unless we've got something to do with it.","speaker":null},{"start":2155.56,"end":2155.96,"text":"I don't give a fuck.","speaker":null},{"start":2155.98,"end":2156.24,"text":"I don't mind.","speaker":null},{"start":2156.26,"end":2156.68,"text":"I don't even want to.","speaker":null},{"start":2156.7,"end":2156.91,"text":"Yes, I do.","speaker":null},{"start":2156.92,"end":2157.24,"text":"I don't want to.","speaker":null},{"start":2160.09,"end":2173.91,"text":"That's why I said you need to eat some milk, right?","speaker":null},{"start":2173.93,"end":2175.32,"text":"Otherwise, when all of us got that crank about to go down.","speaker":null},{"start":2175.3,"end":2196.23,"text":"And I feel sorry for the public, because you and I know that we did talk about the protective reaction.","speaker":null},{"start":2196.25,"end":2196.99,"text":"It was very liberal and very liberal.","speaker":null},{"start":2197.01,"end":2198.97,"text":"Remember I said if they sit there and move back in there, you know, you don't have to do it right.","speaker":null},{"start":2198.99,"end":2200.19,"text":"You don't have to wait until you fire, before you fire back.","speaker":null},{"start":2200.21,"end":2200.71,"text":"Remember I told you that.","speaker":null},{"start":2200.73,"end":2202.01,"text":"And I know the federal authorities, they did see that something.","speaker":null},{"start":2202.03,"end":2202.23,"text":"Very good.","speaker":null},{"start":2203.23,"end":2220.2,"text":"He did, and the real bad thing was falsifying the report, and whatever the case was.","speaker":null},{"start":2220.22,"end":2221.46,"text":"There wouldn't be any map at all if we hadn't stopped bombing.","speaker":null},{"start":2221.48,"end":2223.12,"text":"What we were doing was saying, they have the same signs as military targets.","speaker":null},{"start":2223.81,"end":2244.93,"text":"What in the name of God is he talking about?","speaker":null},{"start":2244.95,"end":2245.55,"text":"So what is the real deal here?","speaker":null},{"start":2245.57,"end":2246.11,"text":"That's what he said, never.","speaker":null},{"start":2246.13,"end":2248.95,"text":"He wouldn't have had the equipment, wouldn't have had the pulse by the records unless they'd been ordered out and he weren't bombing the NAR.","speaker":null},{"start":2248.97,"end":2249.15,"text":"Oh, yeah.","speaker":null},{"start":2249.17,"end":2249.49,"text":"See what I mean?","speaker":null},{"start":2249.51,"end":2251.1,"text":"He's got a bomb in the NAR and he can't get up there and get to the NAR center.","speaker":null},{"start":2251.12,"end":2251.9,"text":"Or he could just have to be on the NAR.","speaker":null},{"start":2254.29,"end":2277.75,"text":"that's, you know, they're doing this stuff along with the prisoners.","speaker":null},{"start":2277.77,"end":2278.86,"text":"I would, uh, I would, uh, provide, you know, uh, yeah.","speaker":null},{"start":2278.88,"end":2280.6,"text":"That would be our, our, our, that's, yeah, that's, that's, yeah, all right, all right.","speaker":null},{"start":2280.62,"end":2281.08,"text":"We have the mines, too.","speaker":null},{"start":2281.1,"end":2282.78,"text":"I would, if there were some, uh, insurances, uh, you know, in the house, then, yeah.","speaker":null},{"start":2282.8,"end":2283.2,"text":"The mines, it would,","speaker":null},{"start":2283.5,"end":2301.5,"text":"It seems to me that the idea is that these will be mines and mines for the prisoners.","speaker":null},{"start":2301.52,"end":2302.64,"text":"And some idea that they will be required to work it out.","speaker":null},{"start":2304.86,"end":2331.17,"text":"that's up there.","speaker":null},{"start":2331.19,"end":2331.59,"text":"That's up there now.","speaker":null},{"start":2331.61,"end":2332.01,"text":"That's up there now.","speaker":null},{"start":2332.03,"end":2332.43,"text":"That's up there now.","speaker":null},{"start":2332.45,"end":2332.85,"text":"That's up there now.","speaker":null},{"start":2332.87,"end":2333.27,"text":"That's up there now.","speaker":null},{"start":2333.29,"end":2333.69,"text":"That's up there now.","speaker":null},{"start":2333.71,"end":2334.11,"text":"That's up there now.","speaker":null},{"start":2334.13,"end":2334.53,"text":"That's up there now.","speaker":null},{"start":2335.49,"end":2356.03,"text":"They can't do it themselves.","speaker":null},{"start":2356.05,"end":2357.23,"text":"It's just going to give them a theoretical type of control.","speaker":null},{"start":2357.25,"end":2358.61,"text":"It's going to give them feedback and control on certain territories.","speaker":null},{"start":2358.63,"end":2359.52,"text":"And it's going to keep them motivated there.","speaker":null},{"start":2359.54,"end":2360.52,"text":"They're going to go back up and look for control.","speaker":null},{"start":2360.54,"end":2360.9,"text":"It's pretty crazy.","speaker":null},{"start":2360.92,"end":2361.62,"text":"It's probably lost a lot of ground.","speaker":null},{"start":2371.27,"end":2394.25,"text":"Well, you can take it, but it's time to do it in this moment.","speaker":null},{"start":2394.27,"end":2397.5,"text":"You can't just take that and say, all right, we'll negotiate with you, we'll do, we'll do the reference date, and I can assemble it with whatever your votes are.","speaker":null},{"start":2397.52,"end":2397.78,"text":"That's smart.","speaker":null},{"start":2397.8,"end":2398.22,"text":"You know what I mean?","speaker":null},{"start":2398.24,"end":2398.5,"text":"That's smart.","speaker":null},{"start":2398.52,"end":2398.78,"text":"That's smart.","speaker":null},{"start":2398.8,"end":2399.06,"text":"That's smart.","speaker":null},{"start":2399.08,"end":2399.34,"text":"That's smart.","speaker":null},{"start":2399.36,"end":2399.62,"text":"That's smart.","speaker":null},{"start":2400.14,"end":2415.81,"text":"But it's been a great deal to take even after the election now, but I will thank you, Steve, for coming on.","speaker":null},{"start":2415.83,"end":2418.07,"text":"And as I said, not that I had any desire to do it before the election, I would prefer not to have this election.","speaker":null},{"start":2418.09,"end":2420.83,"text":"I'm not going to do it, but I'll sit and tell the man that I am, and I'll let him do his thing for you, and he'll do what he wants to do.","speaker":null},{"start":2420.81,"end":2445.32,"text":"I don't know.","speaker":null},{"start":2445.34,"end":2445.6,"text":"I don't know.","speaker":null},{"start":2445.62,"end":2445.88,"text":"I don't know.","speaker":null},{"start":2445.9,"end":2446.16,"text":"I don't know.","speaker":null},{"start":2450.24,"end":2459.07,"text":"Where did you see it?","speaker":null},{"start":2459.09,"end":2462.9,"text":"They have that poster in the back.","speaker":null},{"start":2462.92,"end":2468.66,"text":"I said, how do we do that here?","speaker":null},{"start":2468.69,"end":2472.43,"text":"There's nobody else watching.","speaker":null},{"start":2472.45,"end":2474.39,"text":"You know, these things are all out.","speaker":null},{"start":2474.41,"end":2474.73,"text":"They're all out.","speaker":null},{"start":2474.75,"end":2475.91,"text":"Oh, they got them, actually.","speaker":null},{"start":2481.28,"end":2485.51,"text":"Or the second half, the opposite.","speaker":null},{"start":2485.53,"end":2487.41,"text":"The Redskins really understood the team's defense.","speaker":null},{"start":2487.43,"end":2489.1,"text":"They don't have the 3-0 now.","speaker":null},{"start":2489.11,"end":2491.78,"text":"But they just kind of, they were all sort of good.","speaker":null},{"start":2491.8,"end":2494.19,"text":"And that's what I have to say to you.","speaker":null},{"start":2494.21,"end":2494.41,"text":"Good game.","speaker":null}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Alexander Haig met to discuss the status of ongoing Vietnam peace negotiations and strategies for managing South Vietnamese President Nguyen Van Thieu's resistance to a potential settlement. The conversation emphasized the necessity of securing a peace agreement without appearing to abandon South Vietnam, while acknowledging the political importance of finalizing a deal or maintaining steady progress leading up to the 1972 election. Nixon expressed a firm desire to bring the conflict to a close and directed Haig to ensure that State Department bureaucracy or leaks would not undermine the administration's delicate diplomatic efforts.","topics":["Vietnam War","1972 Election","Nguyen Van Thieu","Peace Negotiations","Henry Kissinger","Foreign Policy","Anatoliy Dobrynin"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T17:16:09.908Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","1972-election","nguyen-van-thieu","peace-negotiations","henry-kissinger","foreign-policy","anatoliy-dobrynin"],"audioDurationSec":2497,"audioFiles":[{"file":"371-019a.mp3","bytes":40309027,"durationSec":1679.48,"bitrate":192007,"missing":false},{"file":"371-019b.mp3","bytes":19630079,"durationSec":817.85,"bitrate":192015,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:44.875Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:28.472Z","transcriptGapSeconds":1135,"transcriptGapShare":0.45,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","transcriptTimestampsRepairedAt":"2026-09-18T09:46:04.817Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/371-019a.mp3","https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/371-019b.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/371-019","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/371/conversation-371-019","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). 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