Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 371-019 Date: Monday, October 23, 1972 at 8:34 AM Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haig, Alexander M., Jr. Recording device: Old Executive Office Building Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/371-019 This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative. [0:03] The one thing I'd like to do is get a collection of files, messages, and ourselves here so that I can have a feel of the state of the way of all of this. [0:25] I don't have any chat, but I have to discuss it. [0:26] That's why it's perfect. [0:30] He said, I don't need that anymore. [0:54] And in fact, I'm a national, but I just want to have it with this file. [0:55] Or you might need to have it wrapped together with it. [0:56] And I can see the money for that. [0:57] And I just want to have it wrapped together with this file. [0:58] And I just want to have it wrapped together with this file. [1:00] He, uh, he said the big question was, were you going to try to get him to make more changes than just put back up a three-time additional concession so that he could, to the end of the fourth of the fourth. [1:23] And I saw a lot from that answer. [1:24] And it's a good thing I did. [1:24] Because, uh, this morning I heard something that was pretty close to me. [1:27] So the changes you need in agreement are in my view all attainable. [1:45] There's nothing like the magnitude that we've already achieved. [1:47] It will be the most solid we've taken. [1:47] It's like the changes most of the research has made. [1:48] It's going to be our final system. [1:49] And things will take place all around. [1:50] Yeah, well that's what we need. [1:51] Thanks. [1:51] Now, it doesn't make any sense whether it's true or not, but it's going to be said exactly the same thing. [2:15] So if you go in and ask for other changes, that's the highest of nowhere. [2:16] So that's very difficult to write on a bucket. [2:17] Now, Henry's dad told me, because I've done a couple of classes, that this would be pretty much both people. [2:19] Pretty close, you know. [2:20] I called Rocky West and I'm preparing for the bedroom. [2:45] He's coming to leave. [2:46] And I said, now, if you don't believe me, I'm talking about you. [2:52] Well, we need to do it. [3:12] We need to do it. [3:12] We need to stop it. [3:13] We need to stop it. [3:13] We need to stop it. [3:14] We need to stop it. [3:15] If we do, we'll never forgive ourselves. [3:29] That's the thing that concerns me. [3:30] You know, Henry, of course, is all tired of the maintenance stuff and so forth and so on. [3:32] I am too. [3:32] And I know, I know that when they play the big game, you know, that Moscow, you see, they get this damn thing on their back. [3:34] I know all the hazards. [3:35] But I also know that we're in an indelible position, a place where we just might make a settlement so we win the election. [3:55] So while that's going to crack, and we may have to do it, the question is whether we're going to do it. [3:57] And in the South, you know, there's a couple of women all over the world who are going to have repercussions. [3:59] That's going to have their stories on us, on the United States, you know. [4:01] We've got to put a call to house manager on everyone. [4:16] This has got to be done in a way that we dare to stop getting on any chance to survive. [4:17] And I just thought I'd ride forever. [4:18] And they've got to survive a reasonable time. [4:19] And I think everybody will say, well, God, I don't want to be in that apartment. [4:21] See what I can do. [4:21] It's the immediate problem that worries me. [4:23] I don't know that South Vietnam can ever survive in the end. [4:40] In fact, if you look at China and all the rest of the states, I don't know that Korea can survive forever. [4:42] Certainly Taiwan. [4:42] I don't know that the whole Southeast Asia forever may not come under whatever we've said about it. [4:44] Under Chinese competition, I mean, we might know that Japan will not. [4:46] In the next year, who knows? [4:46] I don't will. [5:06] The point is, it's got to come. [5:06] It's all a way. [5:07] It's a story of a way. [5:07] And what we've got to do here is a critical thing here. [5:08] And this is where the election team comes. [5:09] And that must not appear. [5:10] And for a single election reason, we don't. [5:11] I don't be concerned at all about the democracy. [5:12] I understand that. [5:12] I know what it's all about. [5:13] I assure you, sir, and thank God that you never, apparently I was the one that... [5:31] and I just want to prove that you were a good commander and I can't accept the fact that you weren't a good commander. [5:49] What is the matter with you? [5:50] You're out of his mind and he's going to fight everyone because of this idea of his. [5:51] And by God, he gets her life. [5:52] And it was a great occasion for him. [5:53] And it was when he was killed. [5:53] And now he knows there's someone there and he's talking to himself. [5:55] And I don't know why he's fighting because of you. [5:56] We'd yell at them for a yard, and they'd take a look and say, what are you doing? [6:07] And I'd say, is that a hit? [6:07] You know, it's something that takes a lot of confidence. [6:08] And the interesting thing is, the garage is always a constant. [6:10] It's a constant all the time. [6:10] I must be terribly tired and all that. [6:31] See, I said to Bill, I said, no, that's not critical of anything. [6:33] What I'm trying to do is to get him to do what I want, not because I want him to sit away from me, but because I want him to do what I want. [6:36] Actually, I found a place I can marry him. [6:36] And you and I want to have a birth. [6:37] I think we ought to have a lot of issues between marriage and middle school. [6:39] And I hope that we are going to take care of that. [6:41] I don't think we can grab that opportunity. [7:03] I don't know if you agree. [7:03] No, I don't agree with that. [7:04] I think that there is plenty, you know, a part of the service that we're carrying. [7:05] And, uh, we may need to get it. [7:06] We're going to ride right through. [7:07] Uh, you know, that would be the biggest thing. [7:08] And he, he said, we got you. [7:08] Well done. [7:08] Well done. [7:09] He, uh, he didn't give any more. [7:09] But, uh, he promised to take it out. [7:10] Yeah. [7:10] And that's what we're all about. [7:11] We talked about it. [7:28] We talked about it. [7:28] And now we've got a way to figure out what it is that's going on. [7:30] Yes, what we would like to do is, you know, and this I agree with completely, and that's what we would like to do. [7:32] And so I asked the Brits to get another meeting with me in Paris. [7:33] It was like I said, that's what the problem is inside of us. [7:35] Right. [7:57] Right. [8:00] But I also want to go around and say something about Bill. [8:18] I don't want anything out of the State Department to say that she was the boss of the police when he was on the capitol. [8:21] But he was already on that capitol when he was on the capitol. [8:22] I was trying to run him around the other way. [8:23] I said, uh, he said, oh, nobody here knows about me and Alan. [8:24] I said, what about Sullivan? [8:25] She said, well, Sullivan's all right. [8:25] I said, well, do you understand? [8:26] Let's not make it appear that she was the obstacle. [8:27] We've got to play with it. [8:28] We've got to make sure it doesn't matter to anybody. [8:29] So I think I got Taylor to watch me pretty well. [8:47] I think he was well-placed before. [8:48] He came out and said, I think he feels good. [8:49] I think he feels good. [8:49] You know, he will get some crap around the rest of the league. [8:50] But when he looks at the play, it's a good thing. [8:51] He shouldn't be the kind of person to play at David's best time. [8:54] He knows that we can't, you know, we suffer too much. [9:15] There are 55,000 Americans dead out, dead. [9:16] Goddamn, we're not going to let those guys die. [9:17] And they're just pissing away. [9:17] We need Eastern Europe for the goddamn communist actors. [9:18] 350,000 Americans were dead in World War II. [9:19] They were fighting the local communists. [9:20] They were fighting the same kind of thing. [9:21] Goddamn it, we are not going to do this again. [9:22] That's my feelings. [9:23] That's my feeling. [9:43] I don't, I mean, I don't, I don't agree with what's going on. [9:44] We've been fighting for two or three years. [9:45] I don't, part of the problem here is Army. [9:46] Army and Air Force do well. [9:46] And they do too. [9:47] They're sort of a whack guy. [9:47] You know, they just give up all the stuff out there. [9:48] They've got a real war going on out there. [9:49] So, for God's sake, they've got to get that out of their heads too. [9:50] This thing's over. [9:51] It's over. [9:51] It's over. [9:51] Everybody knows. [9:52] It's over. [9:52] It's over a minute before we could have gotten anything turned off. [10:14] And I think we've got the basis for doing it. [10:15] And it's been established for a second. [10:16] And we've got to keep working on this bunch here. [10:17] And I think we've got to do less. [10:18] Nothing else can come back. [10:18] And then the other side. [10:19] And they can do whatever they want with it. [10:20] And they may not accept changes that they think they could help you with tonight. [10:21] Or to this day. [10:24] But there's also a possibility that if we talk about it very long term, we could then [10:44] But at two, I think. [11:05] He's clever enough to know that he's got us over a barrel to an extent. [11:26] I know they've got us over a barrel enough to run, but after the election, Chew has got to look at his options. [11:28] That's why I make a private effort. [11:29] I make a private effort and say, all right, we're going to finish this. [11:30] Then if he says no, oh, I won't go. [11:31] Then we do. [11:31] I perfectly agree. [11:32] The next time we talk about it now, the hemorrhage I get doing it now, [11:34] So I'm going to tell you a little bit, don't mis-spread that. [11:46] If I think he planned to mis-spread that, or what I did, that's not true. [11:48] But he had planned to do this over the very long term. [11:49] In fact, since I went back to my friends, he probably got me to mention that. [11:50] He said, all right, in the case that we have, if he was planning to stir me here, he would not have done that. [11:55] It wasn't anything. [12:15] You know, he's tired, and he's tired, and he doesn't get any communication from it. [12:17] But don't worry about it. [12:17] It's all right over there. [12:18] It's all right. [12:18] It's much, much more important and smaller than that. [12:19] Now, there's another possibility, and I think you're actually very self-created. [12:21] You start to squeeze the... [12:24] And we're trying to work our way through and stop the bombing. [12:45] And we've made a long-term plan to do this. [12:45] And we've made a long-term plan to do this. [12:46] And we've made a long-term plan to do this. [12:47] And we've made a long-term plan to do this. [12:48] And we've made a long-term plan to do this. [12:49] And we've made a long-term plan to do this. [12:51] We'll stop the monitoring of the mines. [13:09] We'll get back on our feet. [13:09] They will agree. [13:10] They have to agree, however you got it. [13:10] But actually, you know, it's all mixed up. [13:11] They've got to get it in front of their moms. [13:12] And as far as this problem is concerned, it's two to one. [13:14] And if we would, we would, we would not say that, but we'll be doing a shot. [13:15] Well, our, our, our aid to them would be, [13:16] related to what facilities are submerged in the other side. [13:38] We might put that down in the bank. [13:39] I'd say that it's a heavy task. [13:40] It's got some real work in it, but it is a possibility. [13:41] Now, the board has got to be in there to discuss the end of reporting for a few years and like that. [13:43] Is there going to be another time they can't? [13:44] Otherwise, they'll drag on through the previous one. [13:45] Well, they can. [13:46] There's a kill here. [14:06] I don't give a damn how much you win the election, but if you get killed, if the people don't want it, they can't even fight for you. [14:08] That's what it will affect you. [14:09] You should leave now. [14:10] All right. [14:10] Well, that's, you know, that's where you have to go. [14:11] That's where you have to go. [14:11] That's where you have to go. [14:12] That's where you have to go. [14:13] That's where you have to go. [14:13] That's where you have to go. [14:14] That's where you have to go. [14:16] That's perfectly fine. [14:33] I'm just telling you, you ought to be seeing some of the headlines around here. [14:34] I don't mind. [14:34] Well, I wanted to say that I'd like to explain that the story is not bad. [14:36] In fact, it's one of the many things to consider before you go to work. [14:38] What do you think? [14:59] I don't hear so much. [15:00] Part of the problem is that he doesn't have money. [15:01] He doesn't have money. [15:01] He probably doesn't have any of it. [15:02] But the other side has been plotting this strategy for six months. [15:03] They're coming up with this inspiring idea. [15:04] We've checked all our documents that they have. [15:05] All of a sudden, you can't see their ability. [15:06] They've had these viral games. [15:07] And they have a chance to swallow that patient. [15:09] So, the way you mentioned that, and the other thing is, when you're starting to do it like this, there's still things that you can't figure out, you know, where I must be the man to go. [15:31] Now, that's what they've done. [15:32] You know, you do it once, but you will see what my idea is. [15:33] And I say, oh, that's not what you're going to do. [15:34] Here's what I plan, but if you don't want to go along with it, you're not going to do it well. [15:36] I understand that. [15:36] Sorry, everyone. [15:37] Thank you very much. [15:37] but we cannot relive any longer the kind of country we live in. [15:56] Now that's a good point. [15:56] I agree with you on that, but I don't think that's the way to do it. [15:58] I think it was the right thing to do. [15:58] Dan had all this time. [15:59] He's got plans. [15:59] That's the way the person is planning. [16:00] And so he makes it feel bad. [16:01] He'll be, he'll be psyched a lot easier if we're ready, right? [16:02] We need to just, we need to move to that point. [16:03] That's the way it is right now. [16:05] And I felt the way that he put it, like, in the presentation, that they were complete. [16:24] And then, right on the day before every scene, what he's saying is, you know, it's not like a facade. [16:26] It's not like any of those events. [16:26] It really is. [16:27] It is some truth to the fact that North Vietnam does play an impossible public relations position by their analysis. [16:32] And get to the end of it. [16:59] And then you get to the end of that article. [17:00] And then you get to the end of that article. [17:01] And then you get to the end of that article. [17:03] I'm sorry, I don't care what the report is. [17:16] Oh, I mean, I don't want all of that. [17:33] I just need to know somewhat of the interchange of what he's talking to, uh, the L.A. Supreme Court. [17:35] I just need to know where they are and how this dialogue develops. [17:38] I think what happened here is that Henry saw the thing grow, and I think, frankly, that a lot of people do not want to sit down for a few minutes. [18:00] Let me point out something. [18:01] It's very hard for us to deal with, I guess, when we make a bad decision, and sometimes somebody else is more responsible for the decision. [18:06] I mean, I talked to him on his phone, and he pretty much discussed it with my instructor. [18:23] And he advised him, and the decision was made. [18:24] And that's right. [18:31] we were going to cancel the summit. [18:54] Now, the reason to do that was to say that, uh, that the government was going to cancel the summit, and we were going to cancel the summit. [18:56] And, uh, we were going to announce to you that we were going to cancel the summit, and then we started talking to Mike. [18:59] Now, I mean, we were settled on that course. [19:00] Because of Henry's point of view that we cannot go to Moscow. [19:20] He used them too. [19:20] He wanted to get Bob high where they can't send him. [19:21] Second, we can't go to Moscow. [19:22] Well, the Soviet man can't either. [19:23] And so I said, no. [19:27] Got to come to Thomas in my way to contact him. [19:40] Got to come to Thomas in my way to contact him. [19:41] I don't think that's what he said. [19:42] Well, first, you can't unload your floor. [19:42] You can't come to Thomas in my way to contact him. [19:43] You can't come to Thomas. [19:52] If they do, it's fine. [20:15] If they don't, it's fine. [20:16] If they do, it's fine. [20:16] If they do, it's fine. [20:19] And it wouldn't have happened. [20:38] That would have. [20:39] It must have come. [20:39] It must have come. [20:40] You know, I don't remember, but we all saw other agency things going on. [20:41] It was going everywhere. [20:41] It wasn't one. [20:42] Right up until Saturday night, when we went up to the people that were going to tell us, you know, it was pretty worse than that. [20:45] All three of them were peacemakers. [20:50] And two of the three said they had to do it. [20:51] And then we said, all right. [28:00] and they, to be out, the reason that's important is that I thought it did not cost $100,000 to celebrate, but it was worth it. [28:19] They didn't have to do it, so we've done that. [28:20] There's some stuff that I don't want to take too seriously. [28:22] It wasn't like they did it. [28:22] They kind of act as if they're the one that they want. [28:23] That's today's mentality. [28:24] Now we're back at it, and if the team is correctly on it, I think the people will pay. [28:25] They'll pay for it. [28:26] And I know we've got to be able to recover this. [28:27] I don't know what the hell is wrong with the Army and the rest of it. [28:45] It's real. [28:45] It's not a theoretical problem. [28:46] It's easy to go down the source path. [28:47] The backlash has been underneath that for a while. [28:48] So we've got to get it clustered around, and fix it back, and it works on the problem. [28:50] And I think we've got to play around with it. [28:50] And when we get to be in some area, [28:52] That's when we were in a month or two, or six months, and we got a good sound. [29:11] We were in a stable for seven days, and we were in work place. [29:12] I remember that, and I'm telling everybody that it was this compulsive time skip, in which we had said, in our time skip, our history had passed for a moment, and I told them that. [29:16] I told them there were three things our history had been about. [29:17] One was the pace in it. [29:18] The second was the fact that there were no shortages in that future. [29:36] The south end had to recover if they had gotten the money to sell it. [29:38] And the third is that he hadn't gotten too long for it. [29:39] And the chances of doing so were slim. [29:40] So that's exactly why I went on a route to the south of Brady. [29:41] Oh, he raised it. [29:41] He raised it. [29:42] Then they just bristled something awful. [29:42] But... [29:43] Let's look at their eyes now, first. [29:57] So at first they don't have to compete with us, as they don't. [30:13] They don't. [30:13] We're fortunate. [30:13] I don't think in the election, I don't understand it. [30:15] I don't think that there's an argument on it. [30:15] It's just that they were the oldest so-called people before. [30:17] They were the 25th one. [30:17] Because, you know, they're smart enough to know that. [30:18] The second one. [30:19] So what are they going to do? [30:19] They know they're going to face us after the election. [30:20] And that's what they're going to do. [30:22] The fight that we have to do, we have to do on our side, is this. [30:43] We talk about Jesus saying, they blow. [30:44] Well, that's pretty much what we're talking about. [30:45] But if they blow, we fight to get the goddamn fish home. [30:46] And that's something they're in the mind. [30:47] I mean, that's not, no, no, no, no, no, no. [30:48] That's something that must cross their mind. [30:49] So I'm just very clear, they'll break the law this time. [30:51] I said, you know, I said, if they go in on public collecting now, I said, you know, if they don't force the president and make that kind of thing, then they're only going to escalate the military competition and make the lease more miserable. [31:40] One of the cranes, he did it to me. [31:55] He did something to me. [31:56] I think this one's returning to the truck. [31:56] He's desperate. [31:57] I spoke to him, and he said, you know, I don't know what I'm going to do. [31:58] I don't know what I'm going to do. [31:59] I don't know what I'm going to do. [32:00] I don't know. [32:00] I don't know. [32:16] Well that's, that's where you came in, that's where the, uh, the, uh, uh, the, uh, the, uh, [32:38] and I'm getting a little distracted because I don't know how long that I want to play. [32:51] I don't know how long that I want to play. [32:52] I don't know how long that I want to play. [32:52] I don't know how long that I want to play. [32:55] we're not going to announce it after we're not going to announce it before we announce it after we don't build up a big picture like I think we'll be a community company that's not a great deal sir that's good now what about players you know they're important to you yeah [33:24] Yes, he's been around, and I've been talking to him over the last nine years, one day, and they haven't worked in time. [33:49] But I do think, you know, that it works, and I don't know if it works. [33:50] Well, you know, I don't want to be pressuring you about this, but I think what we've got to say then is thank you. [33:53] All they said, they had not been. [34:14] They had not been. [34:14] They had not been. [34:15] They had not been. [34:15] They had not been. [34:15] They had not been. [34:16] I don't want that to escalate itself. [34:33] In the south, we have got to help you. [34:48] We've done just the opposite. [34:48] We've stepped off the line and said, all right, all right, I've got to do it. [34:50] Well, I want to make a question. [34:50] That's exactly right. [34:51] That's true. [34:51] Well, I put the moment on it. [34:52] And it's part of this rally that I'm in right now. [34:53] There's not going to be any escalators in the south. [35:02] There's going to be fragments in the south that are not supposed to be in the south. [35:04] The north is going to be an elephant. [35:05] So we're waiting. [35:05] We're waiting for anything to happen in the south. [35:07] Are you waiting? [35:25] Because this is one of the biggest problems we have. [35:26] So when they said, you know, like, for how long? [35:27] For how long does it only mean? [35:28] And then we decide how they're going to apply it. [35:29] But we're not saying, you know, we're not saying that, you know, that the analysis actually, I believe, they don't want to take that for a couple of days. [35:32] I mean, we'll simply say, well, this is a, we've got another period because there's, there's, there's no problem. [35:34] So, you know, you can just say, well, you know, [35:37] You know what I'm saying? [35:50] I will never go along with talking to doctors or reporting about myself or what I've done or what I've done. [35:53] I'm not going to be able to pour them a crack at my horseshoe or unless we've got something to do with it. [35:55] I don't give a fuck. [35:55] I don't mind. [35:56] I don't even want to. [35:56] Yes, I do. [35:56] I don't want to. [36:00] That's why I said you need to eat some milk, right? [36:13] Otherwise, when all of us got that crank about to go down. [36:15] And I feel sorry for the public, because you and I know that we did talk about the protective reaction. [36:36] It was very liberal and very liberal. [36:37] Remember I said if they sit there and move back in there, you know, you don't have to do it right. [36:38] You don't have to wait until you fire, before you fire back. [36:40] Remember I told you that. [36:40] And I know the federal authorities, they did see that something. [36:42] Very good. [36:43] He did, and the real bad thing was falsifying the report, and whatever the case was. [37:00] There wouldn't be any map at all if we hadn't stopped bombing. [37:01] What we were doing was saying, they have the same signs as military targets. [37:03] What in the name of God is he talking about? [37:24] So what is the real deal here? [37:25] That's what he said, never. [37:26] He wouldn't have had the equipment, wouldn't have had the pulse by the records unless they'd been ordered out and he weren't bombing the NAR. [37:28] Oh, yeah. [37:29] See what I mean? [37:29] He's got a bomb in the NAR and he can't get up there and get to the NAR center. [37:31] Or he could just have to be on the NAR. [37:34] that's, you know, they're doing this stuff along with the prisoners. [37:57] I would, uh, I would, uh, provide, you know, uh, yeah. [37:58] That would be our, our, our, that's, yeah, that's, that's, yeah, all right, all right. [38:00] We have the mines, too. [38:01] I would, if there were some, uh, insurances, uh, you know, in the house, then, yeah. [38:02] The mines, it would, [38:03] It seems to me that the idea is that these will be mines and mines for the prisoners. [38:21] And some idea that they will be required to work it out. [38:24] that's up there. [38:51] That's up there now. [38:51] That's up there now. [38:52] That's up there now. [38:52] That's up there now. [38:52] That's up there now. [38:53] That's up there now. [38:53] That's up there now. [38:54] That's up there now. [38:55] They can't do it themselves. [39:16] It's just going to give them a theoretical type of control. [39:17] It's going to give them feedback and control on certain territories. [39:18] And it's going to keep them motivated there. [39:19] They're going to go back up and look for control. [39:20] It's pretty crazy. [39:20] It's probably lost a lot of ground. [39:31] Well, you can take it, but it's time to do it in this moment. [39:54] You can't just take that and say, all right, we'll negotiate with you, we'll do, we'll do the reference date, and I can assemble it with whatever your votes are. [39:57] That's smart. [39:57] You know what I mean? [39:58] That's smart. [39:58] That's smart. [39:58] That's smart. [39:59] That's smart. [39:59] That's smart. [40:00] But it's been a great deal to take even after the election now, but I will thank you, Steve, for coming on. [40:15] And as I said, not that I had any desire to do it before the election, I would prefer not to have this election. [40:18] I'm not going to do it, but I'll sit and tell the man that I am, and I'll let him do his thing for you, and he'll do what he wants to do. [40:20] I don't know. [40:45] I don't know. [40:45] I don't know. [40:45] I don't know. [40:50] Where did you see it? [40:59] They have that poster in the back. [41:02] I said, how do we do that here? [41:08] There's nobody else watching. [41:12] You know, these things are all out. [41:14] They're all out. [41:14] Oh, they got them, actually. [41:21] Or the second half, the opposite. [41:25] The Redskins really understood the team's defense. [41:27] They don't have the 3-0 now. [41:29] But they just kind of, they were all sort of good. [41:31] And that's what I have to say to you. [41:34] Good game.