Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 374-016
Date: Friday, October 27, 1972 at 9:55 AM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Colson, Charles W.; Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob"); Kissinger, Henry A.
Recording device: Old Executive Office Building
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/374-016

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:10] When I read the Revenue Summary this morning, I try to really balance it all out.
[0:36] I concede that when I got to Manhattan, I had given a lot of instructions about what to write.
[0:39] That's on for Tucker.
[0:55] Sir, it's a threat.
[0:57] It's a thing that's got to be done.
[0:59] That's the first thing we haven't thought of.
[1:00] I don't think any of us have ever thought of it.
[1:01] I don't.
[1:01] Plus, we've got 10 of them.
[1:02] Jeez.
[1:02] Records.
[1:02] Pick the shit out of him about this.
[1:03] Pick the shit out of him.
[1:04] Don't pick that out of him.
[1:04] Pick him and pick Schreiber.
[1:05] Schreiber's saying, this is the most paramoral thing that ever happened to him.
[1:07] Take McGovern.
[1:11] McGovern was going to turn over if it was going to beg for our veto election.
[1:18] We've got an agreement.
[1:21] McGovern was going to disarm the South Vietnamese.
[1:23] We're arguing that they can defend their own freedom against the communist aggression.
[1:26] McGovern was going to impose the communism to a coalition government.
[1:30] Agreed to it throughout the years.
[1:31] We have got the right to defend and choose their own future.
[1:33] To hell with them.
[1:33] Think we could kick the hell out of them.
[1:35] McGovern was going to get out, period, in 90 days.
[1:36] We're getting out in 60 days.
[1:38] Do you understand?
[1:41] That's the line that I use, which I must say is .
[1:52] all of the gobbledygook that is put out, Henry did a magnificent job, a great job, but Scali is so right, you've got to always point Henry in the direction of two or three lines, and this is not a coalition government.
[2:14] And that's why last night, I must say, when I went, the morning of Joseph, they got up and I said, it's peace with honor, not peace with signer.
[2:18] And that'll get true to the end.
[2:18] God, does anybody understand that that's all people can definitely do their job, that they're blessed, that they're blessed.
[2:24] That's really what it's all about, you know, just because of all the details and so forth.
[2:35] That's Joe Kraft.
[2:36] I said, Bob, I really ring after the day on the post because he's had a moderate call.
[2:41] He said, well, did they talk to Hague and not to me?
[2:45] I said, no, Henry, this is an order.
[2:46] Nobody in your office is to return any call to the Washington Post between now and the election.
[2:49] No one, nobody.
[2:49] And I gave him a little light.
[2:52] I said, however, you can talk to the Times.
[2:53] The Times can't do this, but the Post can.
[3:03] they said that Al said he was looking I'm sure he did nobody had talked to that's fine nobody had talked to Collin and Collin had returned to Collin that's fine but Kelly had called I told Hickory to go call him I had that question before I told him to tell me that
[3:32] They're there.
[3:39] They're there.
[3:48] It's probably in that way.
[3:56] It's probably in that way.
[3:57] It's probably in that way.
[3:57] It's probably in that way.
[3:58] It's probably in that way.
[3:59] It's probably in that way.
[3:59] It's probably in that way.
[4:00] It's probably in that way.
[4:01] I'm sorry.
[4:21] Many people have been that way.
[4:21] Wilson's been turning him over.
[4:22] He's very present for his first time.
[4:23] The fight is.
[4:23] So what's he going to do?
[4:24] He's got to choose.
[4:24] He's got to choose.
[4:24] He's got to choose.
[4:29] I can't even survive well.
[4:38] But anyway, let me say, Chuck, I only raised these bold names all for the purpose of being sure.
[4:42] The boys are making records of what these assholes were saying.
[4:50] They all must be reminded, I want a hell of a piece from things they wish they hadn't said.
[4:56] I remember reading it over to Appalachian.
[4:58] I did it six crises out of my own memory.
[5:02] And it bugged the shit out of Rex, for example.
[5:06] You know, I caught him on a letter to Rex where he said, I don't like no attention.
[5:10] about the fact that we're burning their ass.
[5:31] We have got to burn, you know, everything.
[5:33] I still think what we've got to do is do an hour television special that puts the people versus the individuals versus themselves and the things that we may have said and, you know, what Dan Rather said was going to happen and what happened.
[5:38] How do we do that?
[5:47] You mean you buy time?
[5:51] Yes.
[5:51] After the election?
[5:53] Yeah.
[5:53] We don't, but actors in the media does.
[5:54] Right.
[5:54] We don't want to say, we don't want to cut into this during the campaign.
[5:56] We don't want to politicize it, but the American people deserve to know.
[5:58] They don't know how to oppose it.
[5:58] Right.
[5:58] Right.
[5:59] Right.
[5:59] And now, and then mail it to everybody, and put out tapes to everybody, and try to date up to 30.
[6:08] And then, as of tonight, the White House will announce that such and such has happened.
[6:25] Thank you, Mr. President.
[6:26] Mr. President, am I in the media?
[6:27] Is this?
[6:27] The governor who worked on the campaign, today for the first time in the campaign, he will defend the Senate.
[6:50] You know, something they want to do right now is this.
[6:51] This poor man has been gaffed at it.
[6:52] You hear his face all the time.
[6:52] He doesn't really own his people.
[6:53] He's really been right.
[6:54] I mean, he's really been decent to try to end this war.
[6:55] That's right.
[6:55] He's got to get back to that.
[6:56] He won't get back to that.
[6:56] I've seen this war.
[6:57] I know this is more of a public, but I was getting plenty of data this morning.
[7:10] All of a sudden, the Rutgers pulled out from a 2-5, 6-8-4-4-5.
[7:13] That was a sputter of action.
[7:14] Well, I should tell you about this.
[7:15] This brought us to the wheel of fate.
[7:16] If you say we're a guy who got shot by his own arrows, and it'll be, it won't be political resentment against us.
[7:19] I don't believe it.
[7:19] I don't believe it.
[7:21] But I think it does affect their strategy to this extent.
[7:42] We've got to be very careful how we do that.
[7:43] So that we don't build a separate base.
[7:44] is that his proposals were a center and ours were an honor.
[8:07] I think that has to be done.
[8:08] Yeah, I agree with that.
[8:08] I would like to tell everybody to see him first scream as he did last night on television.
[8:10] A little more so that people would be able to verify what I would want them to say.
[8:12] But what Brad and I, tell us, Mr. Nixon, why do you think that was more of a win?
[8:13] Because that's what's up.
[8:15] ... ... ... ... ...
[8:36] I tried to say it to them that day.
[8:55] I mean, they should have done it four years ago, but they said, well, this is the same.
[8:57] This is going to be like Bill Lyon.
[8:57] Remember that our Forest Service was going to get us on the team that was going to get us on the team that was going to get us on the team that was going to get us on the team.
[9:05] I'm going to go ahead and talk about one of the things she said, the list of what should not be ticked away and whether we can leave that consistent.
[9:30] I don't know.
[9:30] I didn't listen to her.
[9:30] I didn't listen to her.
[9:31] I didn't listen to her.
[9:31] Well, my only point is that I'm old.
[9:32] I haven't believed in what we've done in a long time.
[9:33] I do think
[9:34] Don't have everybody talking about Watergate because it's really funny.
[9:56] And don't have any prologue stuff.
[9:57] I know you don't necessarily agree with this, but this guy is critical of you.
[9:59] Definitely.
[9:59] Okay, I'd like to do that.
[9:59] I believe in you.
[10:00] I believe in you.
[10:00] A good part of my life, let me get out of the way.
[10:01] Just a little bit more before we get started on running us over.
[10:02] All right, I'll stop you.
[10:03] And of course, at any time.
[10:04] that he gets desperate and takes the Shrugger woman and gets raspy and says, it'd be, as the cannon lights up, the only way you could really take on a Shrugger, it'd be a hell of a lot better to throw him on the go than not to take him on.
[10:24] Throw him on the go.
[10:25] Yeah.
[10:25] And let him get gone.
[10:25] Look, they didn't, see what I, what I'm not saying, what I did, don't say this to people.
[10:28] The government has the sense, any sense of decency to allow stuff to go to war.
[10:30] That is the quickest way to get into war.
[10:31] I had, I'll tell you that way, I, uh, Ziegler was the only one that pumped this.
[10:33] I didn't race with anybody else because I had a very, very subtle line in my front last night.
[10:55] Very subtle.
[10:56] I said, I know, I don't want to be in this party.
[10:57] At the end of the last days, we did this campaign.
[10:58] This is no time to be talking in a better way about our importance.
[11:06] That was a real thing on the way out.
[11:24] So I said, I want to talk about it in the future, and I stayed productive.
[11:26] See, that's how I deal with all that stuff.
[11:27] What I want people to do is come out and really scream in a very unappealing way.
[11:29] about, you know, that all of the allies have been asking, why did you do this?
[11:52] Why did you kill the 20,000 people that let him be the one who sat in South Korea?
[11:54] That just kind of blows up.
[11:55] I think it was the right thing to do, right?
[11:56] I think it was the right thing to do, right?
[11:57] I think it was the right thing to do, right?
[11:58] I agree with that.
[12:02] I didn't realize it.
[12:05] He should be ready.
[12:06] But he's the one that should be used.
[12:08] If McGovern does pop on back, he's got his balls on him, too.
[12:17] Bill would be great.
[12:18] I think Bill should do a press conference.
[12:22] Bill never sounds good.
[12:23] He's lucky to stay.
[12:25] And he's been treated for the rest of this program.
[12:27] with one of the small bands that continually tried to set the negotiations to that point.
[12:35] And now we're having to say that we cannot say this
[12:37] Come on, let's get together and support the President's quest for peace.
[12:49] That's what I think we want.
[12:52] I think the way the statement of the President is important.
[12:55] Mr. Dole, I had yesterday's call with him about drugs.
[12:56] I know that there was.
[12:57] We wanted to talk about the truck.
[12:58] We wanted that.
[12:58] The way he had it.
[13:00] The way he had it.
[13:01] I see your strategy.
[13:01] Mr. Dole did that.
[13:02] it's a very skilled one, so it's not going to make any difference, it's going to be a nice, not always a nice, it's going to be a nice one, but if you have any efficiency, you can shut out the staff working on it, because the president had to rely on police to do that.
[13:21] Now that will make the government, got to be able to just, you know, get somewhere where it's going to, you know, it's going to be a good government.
[13:37] I'm not saying they've been hopeful, but I think that it's just a little reaction from people, but it makes sense.
[13:55] A bitter reaction to good traditions, though.
[13:56] But that's what happens.
[13:56] For example, last night in Boston, I had a question along here, did these protests have a part of the government saying, we've done this, and we're going to do it one more day, and stop it today?
[14:00] That's what we'll get a lot of, definitely.
[14:06] we just had to get back up and get rid of these people we could have helped lead them but it was to look out for kids it's all over for the next few years
[14:41] plan after January.
[14:53] So you're talking about a prolonged need to have the water before August.
[15:11] .
[15:30] .
[15:31] The other thing that's overriding is that it cuts out all of the other engines.
[15:56] The main thing is that it's a little off.
[15:57] In fact, I recently posted a new expose on your spoke about it, too.
[15:59] So there it goes.
[16:25] That was, I don't know, did I put a twirl dot next to the noggin?
[16:44] I think that's like, I don't know, I think people are getting the right weather and working on this stuff, I mean, it's better than picking up a twirl dot.
[16:47] Uh, we did twirl dot next to the noggin, but we decided to bite back, you know, to get it back in there.
[16:50] And, those, some of it is just, this is, some of it is just,
[16:52] Democrats have a position in the world to do the right thing.
[17:09] But how do you do it if you're a Democrat and you can't do the right thing?
[17:11] Most people ask me the very question.
[17:11] The next thing is, this is a long piece of work.
[17:12] People are arguing about doing the right thing.
[17:13] They don't have to.
[17:14] Everybody heard about it.
[17:14] So most people can't do the right thing.
[17:18] it bears off my thoughts but I don't think we have much of a public reaction I don't think we have much of a public reaction I don't think we have much of a public reaction I don't think we have much of a public reaction I don't think we have much of a public reaction
[17:39] is that what's the issue focused on our issue and stops the erosion that might have taken place by some development by a successful idea or issue.
[17:54] That's exactly right.
[17:54] That's the biggest, you know, technical issue.
[17:55] I agree.
[17:56] Well, and also, it must be, there ain't no way that we can't
[17:57] and it has to be above 60% we've got to get we've got 57 where you're going to end up that's going to be like a road impact I guess it depends on if it's a good center or a good center there's still a lot of Democrats who go back to those Democrats of course I know there's a lot of Democrats who go back to those Democrats I know that's who's supposed to be that center is a bank but there's a bank Paris is a bank that's exactly where it's supposed to be a press, a hub site, an artist public
[18:27] joy, pride, appreciation, and support.
[18:49] That's it.
[18:49] That's it.
[18:50] That's the point.
[18:50] What does that mean?
[18:50] People can't let that happen.
[18:51] What does that mean?
[18:51] People can't let that happen.
[18:52] Not at all.
[18:52] People are voting against George Floyd.
[18:53] I think that's the wrong issue.
[18:54] It's for the blessing.
[18:54] It's for the atmosphere.
[18:55] with the exception that we have the value
[19:24] of avoiding the opportunity for the government to make some of the erosion.
[19:48] My theory is based on economic corruption.
[19:49] My theory basically is that we cannot go above basically what I call the 60% as a minority market.
[19:53] Second, that's about where we are.
[20:06] And I think we can hold that at the present time.
[20:10] But the other point is that, what could we do?
[20:12] We wrote that for people in the last.
[20:12] We aren't thinking about this issue rather than ours.
[20:13] And that's where we're not bored and settled.
[20:15] or he'd have a chance to have a free run on it but it has to be settled it's got to have that and the other thing is very heavily on this all the next week every move on you said at the end of the day what do you want people to ask me what do I want people to ask me about I said Vietnam
[20:45] If there is one thing you want to make sure about, I do this to you now.
[21:05] And that's what we're going to be doing.
[21:06] Because that's the only thing we're going to be hearing about.
[21:07] There was a little slug in the U.S. that had more emotional contact, more emotional knowledge than anything I've said in a long time.
[21:10] Back in the day, that's what I think.
[21:11] That's what I think.
[21:11] That's what I think.
[21:11] That's what I think.
[21:12] That's what I think.
[21:12] That's what I think.
[21:13] And I wanted that in the first place.
[21:36] I don't want to be there, but I'm not.
[21:37] I don't want to be there, but I'm not.
[21:38] I'm not.
[21:38] I'm not.
[21:38] I'm not.
[21:38] I'm not.
[21:38] I'm not.
[21:39] I'm not.
[21:39] I'm not.
[21:39] I'm not.
[21:39] I'm not.
[21:39] I'm not.
[21:40] I'm not.
[21:40] I'm not.
[21:40] I'm not.
[21:40] I'm not.
[21:40] I'm not.
[21:42] They want to be best out there now.
[22:03] They want to back proud of them, proud of who they are.
[22:04] Unless it happened a month ago, I'd be worried so much too much.
[22:05] If it had happened this week, with our engineering, I'd be scared to death.
[22:07] But the way it happened was just 10%.
[22:08] It's something that we're going to do.
[22:08] We're going to force it out.
[22:10] it does not make us susceptible to deterrence.
[22:28] Well, he's dealt with all the points I want to make.
[22:31] Most of the points, most of the important questions I know I've said already, I hope will benefit the witnesses yet, because I've been allowed to do it.
[22:34] I've got to do it.
[22:35] That's better than having a same old accident.
[22:56] And now, he carries it off to say that he believes in a novel kind of crime.
[22:57] Now he has to go to the Senate and get an economic policy.
[22:58] So I think the Vietnam War will be over.
[22:59] That issue is going on.
[23:00] So I don't think we will ever be able to go through that.
[23:01] And then the rest of the other issues, I know they're cold.
[23:02] But I know it's our place to go.
[23:08] that they don't have
[23:35] And we did it that hard to get out of the kitchen.
[23:56] We did it that hard.
[23:57] We did it that hard.
[23:57] We did it that hard.
[23:58] We did it that hard.
[23:58] We did it that hard.
[24:06] That's the kind of stuff that he says for you.
[24:27] There's just no way.
[24:27] You know.
[24:27] Bob, when I call, everything seems difficult.
[24:28] Bob?
[24:28] Bob, hold on a second here.
[24:38] Henry, did you get caught?
[25:04] I don't think so.
[25:04] No.
[25:04] Is he?
[25:04] I think he is.
[25:05] Let's move to the other camera now.
[25:05] I'm good.
[25:05] Good.
[25:06] Alright.
[25:06] Okay.
[25:06] Okay.
[25:06] Great.
[25:22] Please let me be sure you're good.
[25:23] We've got egg over six today.
[25:24] Great.
[25:24] Uh, how about, uh, if David can't see that?
[25:25] That's fine.
[25:25] Okay.
[25:25] Good.
[25:25] Yeah.
[25:25] Did they copy out anything?
[25:26] Yeah, that.
[25:56] Yeah, as you said to us, not only have I visited the city of Texas, it's just a great, very enthusiastic city, and I can't help but say that all of the instances we've heard, so we've got everything we could have gotten.
[26:21] Good.
[26:21] Good.
[26:21] Good.
[26:21] Good.
[26:22] Good.
[26:22] Good.
[26:22] Good.
[26:22] Good.
[26:33] Thank you.