← 375-022376-002 →

Conversation 376-001

TapeTape 376StartTuesday, October 31, 1972 at 4:10 PMEndTuesday, October 31, 1972 at 5:34 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.;  [Unknown person(s)]Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building
AudioNARA Description

On October 31, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 4:10 pm and 5:34 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 376-001 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 378-15/376-1

Date: October 31, 1972
Time: Unknown between 4:10 pm and 5:34 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Charles W. Colson.

[An unknown portion of this conversation was not recorded while the tape was changed.]


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 29m 4s ]


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        Issues
            -Richard M. Scammon’s view
                   -Canada
                       -Welfare
                       -University of Toronto
                       -Economy
                       -Race
                       -Vietnam
                       -Conservatives
            -Vietnam
                -Henry A. Kissinger
                    -"Peace is at hand"
                        -The President’s view
                -Negotiated settlement
                    -Timing
                        -Relative to 1972 election
                        -Interpretation
                                             2
                     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Nov-03)

                              -Colson’s view
                 -Press coverage
                     -News summary
                 -George Meany, Frank E. Fitzsimmons
                     -Unhappiness with the settlement
                 -Colson's recent conversation with Jay Lovestone
                     -Kissinger’s forthcoming meeting with Lovestone
                     -Lovestone’s reaction
                          -Coalition government in South Vietnam
                          -National Council of National Reconciliation and Concord

An unknown person talked with the President at an unknown time between 4:10 pm and 5:34
pm.

[Conversation No. 378-15/376-1A]

        The President's schedule
            -Telephone call

[End of telephone conversation]


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 1m 28s ]


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        Issues
            -Vietnam
            -Corruption
                -Administration handling
                        -Lawsuit
                            -Dwight C. Chapin
                                 -“Wait and see”

        Post-1972 election strategy
                                          3
                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                  Tape Subject Log
                                    (rev. Nov-03)

          -Television [TV] media
              -License renewals
                   -Washington DC, Jacksonville, Miami
                   -Challenges
                       -Federal Communications Commission [FCC] action
                   -FCC
                       -Dean Burch
                            -Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
                            -Primetime access rules
                                 -Statement
                                -National Broadcasting Corporation [NBC], CBS
                                -American Broadcasting Corporation [ABC]
                   Requests to see Colson
              -CBS re-runs
                   -Morning segment
                       -Length
              -William S. Paley
              -New York trip
                   -Significance
                       -Networks
                            -CBS, NBC, ABC,
              -Equal time
              -Mood of the country
                   -Morality
                       -Press, Professors, “Jet Set”
                            -George S. McGovern
              -Feeling toward Administration
                   -Importance of issues


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 2m 58s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 7

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                                              4
                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL MATERIALS STAFF

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Nov-03)

         Campaign practices
            -McGovern and R. Sargent Shriver
                -Italian-Americans
                -Labor leaders
                     -Dayton
                -Walter Cronkite, Jr.
                     -CBS Evening News
                          -Organization of demonstrators, name-calling
                                 -Shriver’s October 29, 172 appearance in Albuquerque
                                 -Eunice (Kennedy) Shriver


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BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8
[Personal returnable]
[Duration: 3m 48s ]


END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 8

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Colson left at 5:34 pm.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Wellfare was the number one issue.
Wellfare, as Gannon said this morning, Gannon teaches at Toronto.
But yeah, it's that rise once a week.
And he said the number one issue is welfare.
He said all you have is the economy.
He said you don't have a race program.
You don't have Vietnam.
He said the only thing you've ever gained is the economy.
And he said the number one issue is welfare.
And that was the big point of contention.
And that's why the consumers made the gains they made.
Well, they adopted it.
They can't figure that out.
I'll say, well, the reason for this is you haven't accepted the term peace.
Peace is a name.
It's a slight overstatement, but it was said in a context that they figured out.
But nevertheless, that's done.
I said, now, the culture of that should be over-promised.
Because we've heard that before.
How do you answer that?
I think you answer it by saying,
before the election.
Unless you can't do the right kind of .
That's right.
As a matter of fact, the week before the election would be the wrong time to do it.
We know that we are going to negotiate a settlement with But we are not going to do it in time for the election.
It's just not going to be put in that position by the Vietnamese.
I just said it.
It's not going to be put in the position of being here during election time.
It's the wrong thing to let it be injected into the domestic economy.
I don't want it to be in the domestic coalition already.
That's the right thing to do.
But you've got enough programs to do it now that you've settled in.
You've got all of them.
Count on this from both sides, right and left-wing.
Somebody in the news, somebody said this morning in the media that Simmons was unhappy with the test.
That's correct.
It's not true, is it?
No.
No, it's not true.
I mean, I talked to Lurston on Sunday.
He said, uh, there was, you know, a scene.
Have you seen me?
No.
I said, have you saw Lurston today?
I have a question.
I talked to Lurston on Sunday.
He said no.
Uh, no, I, uh, no hurry.
I know what we have to do with Vietnam.
That can't be affected.
We've got corruption.
There's nothing more we can do.
I can't say anything.
We can't, much as we might want to have a lawsuit or something like that, we can't go ahead and administer the wrong vote.
You see, the problem in your case, if you sue Jacob, that's what they'll say.
I thought of you're doing it because I think you can handle it on that front.
Let's wait and see.
We'll take a damn hard look right after the election.
I think that's the proper course.
We just want to go right after them and tear their ass off.
After the election, I just figured out the most effective way to do it.
I don't know what it is.
I don't know what it is.
We've got to check every facet of it.
Check every facet of it.
Oh, totally.
Jacksonville, Miami, they have a good board.
They'll have every damn one of them.
They'll be competitive in this.
On the 1st of January of 1970, Jacksonville should be a good, healthy contest.
How do you do the contest, though?
Don't you have to have an organization?
It's not that hard.
They have enemies who are going to encourage them.
The difficulty is that
It's an expensive and tough process to challenge.
The way in which the Commission has ruled it, they're going to get upset about it.
So people don't really want to invest a lot of money to play in the Commission.
But I mean, how can we do much about the Commission?
Well, he reopened the contact and access rules again.
Good.
But he reopened it with a saving sign.
The options before the commission are to relax it, which NBC and CBS want, or tighten it even further, which many of the authorities and ABC want.
So he put it either way.
In other words, it's a marvelous sort of doubtless.
You can put it either way.
That is one very big economic tool that we have in the ground.
But we're just going to hold it.
They keep rolling it down the way it has to be.
They have to see it, and they're going to see it.
They're going to see it after the strike.
That was the thing.
But I don't know.
I don't know whether CBS is going to run that second.
What do you think?
They were.
They announced it the last time.
Today, what they cut in half
I don't know if they use it, but that's it.
That's it.
You told me about it.
Oh, that's kind of sick.
It does have...
I don't expect everything to be done
I'm not religious all the time, and I'm not expecting to do practically anything here and there, but I just want to have our, our, our, I want to have equal time and so on.
They should be equal.
That's all I'm saying.
They should all be.
They're basically liberal.
That's their problem.
You know, we really need to stop being religious assholes in person.
And the professors that were in the factory and the ministers just said,
they stand for is going to be repudiated.
That's what their problem is.
And they, they therefore, therefore, that's, and that's what we're blaming them for.
We're hurting them.
I mean, he's a chicken chip.
I mean, he's a chicken chip.
But that's what they're going to do.
They have to.
They have to.
And the only time he gets cracked now is when he says something that's absolutely outrageous.
and they're not giving him the same people coverage, you know, for about 10 days.
I remember him, he was the Daryl who was doing the dance with the Italians, and he was the one that was in the label with the players, and David was in person.
Now you don't even see Charlotte because I'm trying to find her.
I'm trying to control a little bit from that line of how vicious their campaign can be.
Although, you know, even Crockett mentioned it last night.
They're not picking up the organizing of the demonstrators.
They're not picking up the name calling.
They're picking up the most money on the name calling.
That they are picking up.
They were picked up very negatively.
Sure.
Yes, sir.
It was picked up as a... Well, it was couched in kind of a negative way.
It was extreme.
And it's harshest than most of the swimming states one day or something.
They're beginning to characterize the things.
But even
He is not making any of it.
He sure isn't making any points.
Guinness is not making any points either, though.
I don't know what I'm doing, sir.
See, there's one more, sir.
← 375-022376-002 →