{"conversationCode":"378-004","tapeNumber":378,"conversationNumber":4,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-378-004","startDateTime":"1972-10-31T14:55:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-10-31T16:00:00.000Z","startDate":"31-Oct-1972","startTime":"9:55 AM","endDate":"31-Oct-1972","endTime":"11:00 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.; Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\"); [Unknown person(s)]; Butterfield, Alexander P.; Bull, Stephen B.;","description":"On October 31, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, H. R. (\"Bob\") Haldeman, unknown person(s), Alexander P. Butterfield, and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 9:55 am to 11:00 am. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 378-004 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":4,"chronRelease":"Fourth Chronological Release","chronReleaseDate":"10-Dec-2003","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 378-4\n\nDate: October 31, 1972\n\nTime: 9:55 am - 11:00 am\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with Ronald L. Ziegler.\n\n        Vietnam settlement\n            -Ziegler’s forthcoming press conference\n                -Viet Cong [VC] statement\n                -Henry A. Kissinger\n                -Quality of settlement\n                -Progress\n                -Details of agreement\n                     -Importance\n                     -1962 Laotian agreement\n                          -Kissinger\n                -Quality of agreement\n                     -Importance\n                     -Condition set by the administration\n                -Coalition government\n                     -Sine Qua Non condition\n                -Deadlines\n                     -October 31, 1972\n                     -November 7, 1972\n                -Details of agreement\n                     -Laotian agreement in 1962\n                     -1968 bombing halt\n                -Coalition government election commission\n                     -De facto, de jure status\n                     -Kissinger\n                          -Laotian agreement\n                     -Self determination\n                          -Election\n                              -Electoral commission\n                              -Communists\n                -North Vietnamese\n                     -Negotiation progress\n                          -US statements\n                -Consultation with Saigon\n                     -Kissinger\n                     -Partnership\n                          -Veto\n                -Settlement timing\n\n                      -1972 election\n                  -Quality of agreement\n                  -Sine Qua Non condition\n                      -Kissinger\n\nH.R. (“Bob”) Haldeman entered at 10:03 am.\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 14m 48s ]\n\nZiegler left at 10:17 am.\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 2\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nZiegler entered at 10:19 am.\n\n         Signing of final bill of 92nd Congress\n             -Scheduling\n                 -Oval Office\n                 -The President's meeting with Nelson A. Rockefeller\n\n         The President’s schedule\n             -Rockefeller\n                 -Photograph session\n\nZiegler left at 10:20 am.\n\n         Campaign practices\n            -Press coverage of the President’s assistance to Congressional\n             candidates\n                -Endorsement letters\n                -Photographs\n                -Television [TV] spots\n                -Candidate endorsements\n\n                 -Campaign contributions\n                     -Clark MacGregor\n                     -Transfer of funds\n                 -MacGregor\n                 -John N. Mitchell\n                 -Kevin P. Phillips\n                 -Films\n                 -Buildup\n                 -Radio\n                 -U.S. News and World Report\n                 -Telephone calls\n                 -Robert J. Dole\n                 -Phillips\n                     -News summary\n                 -News summary\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 3m 33s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 3\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nHaldeman talked with an unknown person at an unknown time between\n10:20 am and 10:50 am.\n\n[Conversation No. 378-4A]\n\n        John B. Connally's schedule\n\n[End of telephone conversation]\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4\n\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 11m 36s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 4\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n        The President’s schedule\n            -Chicago\n                -Security considerations\n                     -Demonstrators\n                     -Comparisons to 1968 Democratic National Convention\n\n        Record of administration\n           -Public relations\n           -Amnesty\n           -US News and World Report\n                -1972 election\n           -White paper\n                -Distribution\n                    -Hugh Sidey\n                         -John D. Ehrlichman\n                         -Editors\n                -Buying broadcast time\n                    -Radio\n                         -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew\n                              -George S. McGovern\n\n        Watergate\n           -Possible libel suit\n                -Charles W. Colson\n                -Problems\n                    -Chapin\n                -Chapin\n\n        Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]\n            -Political use\n                 -Time article\n                      -News summary\n                      -Ehrlichman’s statement, October 30, 1972\n\n                         -Crime information in localities\n                         -Justice Department\n                              -Inquiry from Domestic Council staff\n                         -Property of inquiry\n                              -Handling by Justice Department\n                     -The President’s view\n                         -Analogy to bugging of Democratic National Committee\n                         -Domestic Council\n                              -Edwin L. Harper\n                     -Domestic Council\n                         -Geoffrey C. Shepard\n                     -Ehrlichman’s statement\n                         -Analogy to inquiries made of Agriculture and Transportation [sic]\n                           Departments\n\n        Watergate\n           -Haldeman, Chapin, Colson\n           -Chapin\n           -Donald H. Segretti\n\n        Issues\n            -Vietnam, corruption\n                -Administration polls\n                -Democratic advertisements\n                    -Effect\n                         -Colson\n            -The President’s forthcoming trip to Chicago\n            -Vietnam\n                -Press relations\n                    -Hanoi\n                    -Thieu\n                    -Kissinger\n                         -Left and right\n            -Administration poll\n\nHaldeman talked with an unknown person at an unknown time between\n10:20 am and 10:50 am.\n\n[Conversation No. 378-4B]\n\n        Request\n\n[End of telephone conversation]\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 3m 29s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 5\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nAlexander P. Butterfield entered at 10:50 am.\n\n         White House staff\n            -Size\n                -Ehrlichman’s staff [Domestic Council]\n                     -Speeches\n                          -Work\n                -Meetings\n\n         The president’s schedule\n             -Rockefeller meetings\n                  -Connally\n             -Bill signing\n             -Chicago\n                  -Possible delay\n                       -Media reaction\n\nButterfield left at 10:52 am.\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6\n[Personal returnable]\n[Duration: 7m 6s ]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 6\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nStephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 10:52 am.\n\n        The President's schedule\n            -Rockefeller\n                -Connally\n            -Chicago\n                -Delay\n\nBull and Haldeman left at 11:00 am.","filename":["378-004.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ziegler, Ronald L.","Haldeman, H. R. (\"Bob\")","[Unknown person(s)]","Butterfield, Alexander P.","Bull, Stephen B."],"prevCode":"378-003","nextCode":"378-005","transcript":[{"start":29.58,"end":47.47,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":63.41,"end":66.93,"text":"and while the general mother has been"},{"start":109.65,"end":118.39,"text":"We don't want that."},{"start":121.27,"end":124.06,"text":"We want a agreement that will last, a peace that will last."},{"start":124.08,"end":125.4,"text":"And that's why it's very important that we have to deal with that."},{"start":125.42,"end":127.48,"text":"Now, first, what is that?"},{"start":127.5,"end":129.05,"text":"Well, there is one condition."},{"start":129.07,"end":129.47,"text":"It's non-negotiable."},{"start":129.49,"end":130.23,"text":"One non-negotiable condition."},{"start":130.25,"end":130.85,"text":"There can be no commentary."},{"start":175.8,"end":186.4,"text":"our primary objective is the right kind of integration the election and we are not going to allow any"},{"start":213.4,"end":220.25,"text":"For example, the Laotian agreement in 1962."},{"start":222.83,"end":225.96,"text":"And the bombing halt in 1968."},{"start":225.98,"end":226.96,"text":"And the bombing halt in 1968."},{"start":226.98,"end":230.23,"text":"In which the details were not adequately nailed up."},{"start":245,"end":246.96,"text":"principles."},{"start":246.97,"end":250.17,"text":"The details are vitally important in this one."},{"start":288.68,"end":289.58,"text":"Target cleared up."},{"start":318.07,"end":319.29,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":367.28,"end":396.21,"text":"."},{"start":396.23,"end":396.25,"text":"."},{"start":396.27,"end":396.29,"text":"."},{"start":396.31,"end":396.33,"text":"."},{"start":396.35,"end":396.37,"text":"."},{"start":396.39,"end":396.41,"text":"."},{"start":429.01,"end":449.8,"text":"They are a full partner."},{"start":449.82,"end":450.74,"text":"They have a people and all that kind of stuff."},{"start":450.76,"end":451.28,"text":"And we're working on that."},{"start":451.3,"end":452.08,"text":"We're working on the government itself."},{"start":452.1,"end":452.88,"text":"And that's something along those lines."},{"start":452.9,"end":453.69,"text":"And the idea that we're not going to..."},{"start":457.12,"end":462.41,"text":"last, not one that has amputations in it."},{"start":462.69,"end":467.62,"text":"One with amputations here, that third, it must be one."},{"start":467.64,"end":471.65,"text":"And that's right, it must be further."},{"start":471.67,"end":472.45,"text":"But above everything else,"},{"start":501.88,"end":527.92,"text":"."},{"start":527.94,"end":527.96,"text":"."},{"start":527.98,"end":528,"text":"."},{"start":528.02,"end":528.04,"text":"."},{"start":528.06,"end":528.08,"text":"."},{"start":528.1,"end":528.12,"text":"."},{"start":540.17,"end":568.38,"text":"... ... ... ... ..."},{"start":571.4,"end":596.84,"text":"We cannot, under the law, we cannot transfer funds."},{"start":620.81,"end":621.31,"text":"."},{"start":621.33,"end":621.45,"text":"."},{"start":621.47,"end":649.74,"text":"."},{"start":653.16,"end":656.27,"text":"Okay."},{"start":656.71,"end":672.96,"text":"Okay."},{"start":683.94,"end":694.68,"text":"and uh"},{"start":726.11,"end":738.69,"text":"All right."},{"start":779.64,"end":780.07,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":846.53,"end":853.35,"text":"Okay."},{"start":853.37,"end":853.47,"text":"Okay."},{"start":875.47,"end":889.99,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":913.56,"end":914.71,"text":"I would do that."},{"start":966.26,"end":968.89,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":999.05,"end":1005.88,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1024.07,"end":1048.34,"text":"uh..."},{"start":1061.65,"end":1076.05,"text":"When I saw it, I thought it was a goddamn screw-up."},{"start":1076.07,"end":1076.69,"text":"I didn't even want to raise it."},{"start":1076.71,"end":1077.71,"text":"But, you know, it wasn't practically the only one."},{"start":1077.73,"end":1078.26,"text":"It wasn't the name of God."},{"start":1078.28,"end":1079.1,"text":"It's like talking to a Democrat in there."},{"start":1079.12,"end":1079.64,"text":"It wasn't the name of God."},{"start":1079.66,"end":1080.88,"text":"It kind of looked like the National Council of Other Parties."},{"start":1080.9,"end":1081.48,"text":"It wasn't the same injection."},{"start":1081.5,"end":1081.94,"text":"It was stupid, though."},{"start":1081.96,"end":1082.16,"text":"It wasn't."},{"start":1120.5,"end":1122.15,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1156.68,"end":1179.34,"text":"Right."},{"start":1202.8,"end":1218.54,"text":"the only thing that I'm concerned about"},{"start":1270.7,"end":1271.11,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1302.68,"end":1330.68,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1401.26,"end":1402.16,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":1489.79,"end":1491.31,"text":"."},{"start":1491.33,"end":1492.49,"text":"."},{"start":1492.51,"end":1513.69,"text":"."},{"start":1519.67,"end":1522.36,"text":"There I go."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with his senior staff, including H.R. Haldeman and Ronald Ziegler, to discuss the ongoing negotiations for a Vietnam peace settlement, emphasizing the necessity of a durable agreement that avoids the pitfalls of previous accords. The discussion also covered campaign strategy, including the management of candidate endorsements and media relations, as well as the political fallout from the Watergate scandal. Additionally, the President reviewed his upcoming schedule, which included meetings with Nelson Rockefeller and security concerns regarding a planned trip to Chicago.","topics":["Vietnam War","Watergate","1972 Election","Campaign Strategy","Henry Kissinger","Foreign Policy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T17:32:25.385Z"},"topicSlugs":["vietnam-war","watergate","1972-election","campaign-strategy","henry-kissinger","foreign-policy"],"audioDurationSec":1525,"audioFiles":[{"file":"378-004.mp3","bytes":36610715,"durationSec":1525.37,"bitrate":192009,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:44.876Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:29.711Z","transcriptGapSeconds":304,"transcriptGapShare":0.2,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/378-004.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/378-004","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/378/conversation-378-004","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}