Conversation 379-015

TapeTape 379StartWednesday, November 1, 1972 at 10:46 AMEndWednesday, November 1, 1972 at 11:15 AMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.;  Colson, Charles W.;  White House operatorRecording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On November 1, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, Charles W. Colson, and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 10:46 am and 11:15 am. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 379-015 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 379-15

Date: November 1, 1972
Time: Unknown between 10:46 am and 11:15 am
Location: Executive Office Building

The President talked with Henry A. Kissinger.

       The President's forthcoming radio and television speech, “Look to the Future”

       Vietnam, negotiations
            -Status
                  -Public relations [PR]
                        -Ellsworth F. Bunker
                        -George S. McGovern [?]
                        -Right
                                             -20-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. Mar.-08)

                                                               Conversation No. 379-15 (cont’d)

                              -Jay Lovestone

       The President’s forthcoming speech, “Look to the Future”
            -The President’s work with Raymond K. Price, Jr.
                  -Vietnam War
                         -Settlement agreement
                                -1972 election
                                -Progress
                                -Coalition government
            -Completion
                  -Timing
                         -Kissinger’s forthcoming conversation with Price
                         -The President’s role
                         -Kissinger’s forthcoming conversation with Price
                                -Kissinger’s memorandum
                  -Final draft
                         -The President’s work with Kissinger
                  -Kissinger’s health
                  -The President’s schedule
                         -Domestic policy radio speeches
                  -Vietnam War
                         -Nguyen Van Thieu
                         -William F. Buckley, Jr.

       Kissinger’s schedule
             -Dr. William O. Chase

[End of telephone conversation]

Charles W. Colson entered at an unknown time after 10:46 am.

       1972 campaign
            -Violent demonstrators
                  -Demonstrators in Boston
                       -McGovern
                             -The President's recent conversation with Patrick J. Buchanan
                                   -Public relations [PR]
                  -PR
                       -1960 campaign
                       -Press and media relations
                                             -21-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. Mar.-08)

                                                             Conversation No. 379-15 (cont’d)

                              -Colson’s conversation with William S. Paley
                              -Double standard

*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

       1972 campaign
            -Chants
            -Media coverage
                   -Favoritism
                   -McGovern trailing
                   -Media support for demonstrators
            -Public sentiment
            -Polls
                   -San Fernando Valley
                         -Interviews by Oliver Quayle
                         -Middle Class
                         -Democratic leanings
                         -Results
                               -Edmund G. (“Pat”) Brown
                               -McGovern
                                     -Compared to the President
                               -1968 election
                               -Oliver Quayle
                         -Issues
                               -Opposition to McGovern
                                     -Ideology
                                     -Defense
                                     -Welfare
                                     -Taxation
                   -Boston
                         -John F. Collins

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************

The President talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 10:46 am and
11:15 am.
                                           -22-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. Mar.-08)

                                                           Conversation No. 379-15 (cont’d)

[Conversation No. 379-15A]

[See Conversation No. 32-115]

[End of telephone conversation]

       1972 campaign
            -Demonstrators in Boston
                 -Participants
                       -Number
                       -Activities
                             -Car burnings
                 -Press coverage
                       -Boston Globe
                 -Effect on Boston
                       -Compared to San Jose incident, October 29, 1970
                       -Working class
                 -Response
                       -Clark MacGregor statement
                             -Tone
                             -Demands of McGovern
                       -John B. Connally
                             -Recent conversation with Colson
                             -Forthcoming press conference
                                   -Washington, D.C., press corps
                 -Effect
                       -McGovern

*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

       1972 campaign
            -Polls
                   -Point spread
                         -Question
                               -Wording
                               -Outcome
                   -Point spread
                                             -23-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. Mar.-08)

                                                              Conversation No. 379-15 (cont’d)

                  -Independents
            -Vietnam War
                  -Impact
                  -McGovern
                  -Media strategy
                         -Networks
                         -Peace settlement
                         -“Firm hand”
                         -Cease-fire
                         -Freedom in South Vietnam
            -McGovern
                  -John B. Connally
                  -Pressure from the President’s campaign
                  -The President’s supporters
                  -Sympathy from public
                         -News summary
                  -Attacks on the President
            -Counterattack strategy
                  -McGovern’s purpose
                  -Number of attacks
                  -Radio speeches
                         -Advantages
                               -Price
                               -National and local coverage
                         -Radio, television [TV]
                  -Polls
                         -Albert E. Sindlinger
                         -Louis P. Harris
                  -Clark MacGregor
                  -The President’s allies
                  -McGovern
                         -National and local press
                         -Colson’s telephone call to Boston

[End of segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************

Colson talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 10:46 am and 11:15
am
                                            -24-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. Mar.-08)

                                                        Conversation No. 379-15 (cont’d)

[Conversation No. 379-15B]

[See Conversation Nos. 32-116 and 32-117]

[End of telephone conversation]

*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]]

       1972 campaign
            -Hecklers in Boston
                 -Public response
                 -Irish Americans
                        -Collins
                 -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
                 -McGovern
                        -Vulnerability

[End of segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************

       1972 campaign in Boston
            -Hecklers
                 -Response
                       -McGovern
                       -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
                             -Hecklers
                             -Mrs. Nixon
                                   -McGovern
                             -Car burnings
                       -Press and media relations
                 -Hugh W. Sloan, Jr.
                       -Watergate
                       -Leo Cherne

*****************************************************************
                                              -25-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. Mar.-08)

                                                          Conversation No. 379-15 (cont’d)

[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

       1972 campaign
            -Busing issue
                  -Collins
                  -Connecticut
                  -Paul Hall
            -Vietnam War issue
                  -Antiwar opposition
            -McGovern campaign
            -Voters
                  -Boston
                  -Radio speech

The White House operator talked with Colson at an unknown time between 10:46 am and 11:15
am.

[Conversation No. 379 – 15C]

[Conversation No. 32-118]

[End of telephone conversation]

       1972 campaign
            -Demonstrators in Boston
                 -Collins
                 -Mrs. Nixon
                       -Apology
                 -Democrats for Nixon

       The President’s schedule

[End of segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************

Colson left at 11:15 am.
                                             -26-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. Mar.-08)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hi, Henry.
I'm just working on my radio speech, but I went up today and the report this morning was that the ballpark was in a state of, in a state of, in a state of flood.
I saw that.
But I wonder if maybe a line should go out for this.
Yeah, that was very well done.
You think that'll hold the right ones, huh?
Got that impression on the left arm.
Yeah, I was worried.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, we're going to work it out.
Now, I am working with Christ.
I worked with him a lot last night.
I think it's a Vietnam thing.
I think it's, I'm trying to get it set in a way that the area that we're issuing is primarily going to be issued in America, so they're not going to make a bad settlement because of the election.
And that's what they're going to do.
I've got to say, I'm not certain.
I'm not certain with regard to .
OK. Now, before we finish, now, that'll be about 4 o'clock or 4.30.
I don't know.
OK.
So I'm happy before 3.
I don't know.
We've already done something great.
I don't want to talk too much about it.
That's what we did, but I'll do the final work on it myself.
If you didn't, then you can't talk to me like that.
But it's all worked out now.
But if you and I will work on the final thing, and build up the speech, I'll do it.
I'll talk to you about it.
All right, how you doing?
Fine, fine.
I don't plan to do it unless you have some, because I'm very ill.
But that's the greatest thing.
Yeah, you can come in, because that's out there for you.
Well, I'm going to help you.
I'm sure you're something that you've got to run for in policy.
Well, that's another call, isn't it?
All right.
All right.
No one else here.
Ah, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Is it?
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
You know, some of that will help us, too.
Also, you know, I think that...
Buckley, everybody with me?
Good.
Okay.
Just keep rolling.
Okay.
Good.
All right.
Well, sir.
I was wrong to put on some of the government for tonight's meeting.
I just don't understand what the hell is the problem.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
I guess the biggest issue right now is their people.
They are for these fuckers.
That's it.
That's right.
That's it.
They are for Chuck.
The best thing that should be a deal is to know that it's funny.
That's common.
That's great.
Now, for our people to read, because it is the essence of the campaign.
I'm just, I'm sure that I'm telling the truth right now.
Probably, it's an interview, but I always will.
District of San Fernando, I think, the middle class, you know, are very different.
Free San Fernando, the only person selected by the Senate, is a very important person.
And I know the dollar, but I find it, well, maybe, you know,
It's a mix, though.
It's a higher, upper middle income.
If you're not really upper middle, it's about $50,000.
Their houses check cost.
They're not bad.
and the people are proud to tell them that they've got a little house and so forth and so forth and so forth and so forth and so forth and so forth and so forth and so forth and so forth and so forth and so forth
But the results in the precincts were made since 69, held in 31, which is 5-2 on the side of 16.
It was a precinct that was in an area that was narrowly carried by the U.S. You know, the area is 69, 31.
But what's the impact?
This is the whole point of this campaign.
People will get, they're just going to understand it was mostly coming from all the accordions today.
There are 24 races of democracies that definitely decided Mr. Nixon, apart from provisional complaints about Mr. McGovern's inconsistency.
The basic reason is highly alarming.
While all of the progress needed to come to the one, to the one, Mr. President made the big business of the White House.
They imposed, too, on McGovern's defense of welfare and taxation policy.
I have a cop.
Was there a farmer mayor down in Collinburg, Boston, who ran this road?
Not a person.
I don't know.
I don't get pissed off very often.
Not that.
There's only 500 people out there.
It wasn't a crime.
They burned a car, didn't they, or took over a car?
I don't know.
I don't know, but in every office before, there's a meeting in every office.
And let's say, for example, the price was horrible in Boston, you're in a small town.
that was working with us people, just the hardest thing, the hardest thing, right?
The only thing that helped us was the greatest,
you can't go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
It doesn't seem like the police will be closed until 6151.
6151.
It doesn't say who you want.
It doesn't say who you want.
It says who you want to be present.
After all, that's what we want to come out with.
And that's what we're doing.
And I guess that we're down to 54.
Now we're 53.
We want to be more than that.
We're going to 32.
We're still big.
We're going to be better.
We're going to be better.
I mean, the, uh, what you call the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh,
You were pointed out to certain people.
That's right.
He did not.
He did.
But that ought to come back some.
Well, I should be crediting right now that we can somehow hold it.
Yes, sir.
It was all right.
I read earlier this time.
No, the way it came off, that was a good, basic learning.
But on the other hand, it was still a little difficult.
Yeah.
.
.
.
.
There's a line that is developing for county and county government, and again, it's one that, if you're a faculty, if you're in sports, you will have a firm hand, a very important hand, a strong hand in dealing with this world.
And there's a tough challenge there.
We know that it was a long period of time, but we really don't see as far as it goes.
I think you can do that for a second.
They should know how to block him out.
They've got plenty of time.
I like to show the time.
I don't know what you're talking about.
Oh, I see.
I didn't hear it.
I said, I'm still working.
No, no, no.
What do you think about the...
I don't feel it's overkill.
I think that I can keep the pressure right on.
I'd be able to keep it active and still cut it.
And the money isn't really going to keep the pressure on.
It's true.
The reason you keep the pressure on us, of course, is that so you can put on us, well, the pressure, but also because there are people who want you to be present when they want you to be present, and some people rely on you, so they don't have to worry about any of those people.
I know there's been a bit of a summary, some said that you've gotten involved with the government for a long time, and I was like, you know, I think this is what we're very excited to do.
I have this idea that if you can't get this out of your stride,
pressure.
He was starting to relax now.
And to hold the other thing.
Now he's sitting on the real left, right?
He's really touching.
He's crushing.
What is the tactic?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
.
.
.
.
.
.
The other question, we have asked for the schedule of the bill going forward, national and local.
That's where my days have been going.
Half of those four, a couple of four o'clock, turn around and then it's the weekend.
That's where I've been.
The internationals can't have it yet.
Although a few of them are.
I guess a little later on today.
I think they're going to win because it just kind of has people right up to their head.
I mean, it's going to stop you.
There's no point in still holding fire.
Well, the only way you can do it is if you kind of have a goal and you've got it.
I understand.
I didn't want to keep you behind, so I don't mind.
I know our people, but I think a regular group is probably great, but there's a bunch of people that I think that there's a tendency for them to think that they're going to spend time with each other.
We've all got our campaign to run by taking them out of the bar.
What do you think?
I agree.
Oh, wow.
Wow, I understand.
This is totally a racist strategy.
The only thing we can do is we've got to break it.
We've got to break it down.
I believe in it.
I didn't know what he was talking about.
I didn't know what he was talking about.
I didn't know what he was talking about.
I didn't know what he was talking about.
I didn't know what he was talking about.
If you don't get it, we're just going to go for a P-A-D-1.
And then if I get into it, just to throw a...
That's the old Irish.
Hey, what?
I guess a lot of people really didn't respond to it.
They're happy they can.
They said, look, I don't want to talk to you.
I don't want to talk to you.
I don't want to talk to you.
I don't want to talk to you.
I don't want to talk to you.
I've actually spoken to Seth about it.
He's a good human being.
I've never seen him.
I've read it.
Come on, let's fix you up.
You know, you notice that I have a problem in busing.
Do you notice that at school, is there?
Or do you think probably it's because of the signage?
Why do you think that that is?
I think it is.
I always think that it is because of the signage.
I think it is because of the signage.
I think it is.
Wow, that's what it is.
The way we do it, we don't have to be in line.
You know something, I didn't realize it, but it's really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really,
they're beginning to say a little bit about the issues with the people.
The other thing we didn't have the law ready to come to, basically, on the east of the Rwanda, part of the Rwanda, and they didn't, they didn't answer enough civil law, and that's what we're trying to do with what we have.
Again, what you said, and that's what we're trying to do.
That's a very, very good idea.
But the more that you can order,
Okay.
Okay.
... ... ... ... ...
Thank you.
I agree.
I agree.
This is what that house is.
It's going to be in a square.
But they say the same thing as the school said to go through all of those things.
That's why they're staying close to each other.
They're going to have it.
They're going to have it.
They're going to have it.
They're going to have it.
They're going to have it.
They're going to have it.
They're going to have it.
They're going to have it.
They're going to have it.
I'm sorry.
They won't be discussing it up in the kind of Western argument, but in the square, we saw a person, or an East person, and a white guy, they just thought it was a good idea.
Thank you.