On April 19, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman talked on the telephone from 9:37 pm to 9:53 pm. The White House Telephone taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 038-126 of the White House Tapes.
Transcript (AI-Generated)This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.
Hello?
Yes, sir.
Bob?
Yes, sir.
Oh, hi.
I talked to the two boys here.
Couple of characters, aren't they?
They really are, but it was very interesting.
I see.
They only had a half hour with the U.S. attorneys.
Yeah.
They had a short session.
Apparently those guys had a busy day.
They had Hunter there and all this breaking on the... Yeah.
What is that?
Have we ever found out what the hell it is?
No.
I don't know if anybody knows or not, but nobody seems to have any idea what it is.
Ehrlichman had some input on it that it was offered to Silbert at some point, and he didn't want it, which has put him in a very awkward position, which is he's denouncing the whole story as preposterous.
What is this, eight cases of stuff that was carried out of the White House?
Is that what it is?
That's what they say, out of Hunt's, it was the contents of Hunt's desk.
Eight cases?
Six cases, I guess.
Oh, that's what it is.
Six cartons.
Carried to where?
To an apartment?
It was taken to some place where it was stored.
This guy's a lawyer who's telling this story.
client stored it for the summer and then returned it to the committee to re-elect just before the election.
Which is a weird story.
They have it now then.
They have the material.
They don't.
I don't know where the material is.
What this guy's doing apparently is as all this stuff is coming out, this guy's scared he's going to get hung on an obstruction of justice thing and so he's going in and finally noticed that
He knew about this.
Who is the guy, Bob?
Is he somebody that worked for the committee?
It's a lawyer.
I don't know who his client is.
That's what I meant.
It was a client.
I don't know.
I have no idea who his client is.
He won't say.
That's very strange.
Wilson doesn't really know.
I don't know.
John Erwin talked to Colson about it, so he may have more of a reading on it.
There's another one of those things.
I'll run all the way through with John.
We have another one that we're going to cover the story tomorrow.
There's an associate of John Dean's who is seeking to make John Dean's version of this whole thing public.
that Dean, in his testimony before the grand jury, will implicate people above and below himself, and will state that Haldeman engineered a cover-up to hide the involvement of presidential aides in the operation.
And that one close associate said that Dean is prepared to tell whatever role he might have played in the Watergate case came as a result of orders from superiors in the White House.
the allegations Dean had no advanced knowledge of the bugging, that the truth is long and broad and it goes up and down, higher and lower, and that you can't make a case that this was just Mitchell and Dean.
Dean will welcome the opportunity to tell his side to the grand jury.
He's not going to go down in flames for the activities of others.
I called the White House for comment on that.
Oh, boy.
Tried to reach me, I guess, for comment.
Yeah.
Let's see.
got it.
He called, he tried to reach Dean and finally got through to him.
He's having his calls screened by Fielding and he's hiding in a hotel somewhere.
Then Dean called him back and Ron gave him this story and Dean said his first comment was, oh fuck.
And then he said, I have a pretty good suspicion who it is and he's got things scrambled.
I never mentioned Haldeman.
I just said higher up apparently.
And he said,
And Ron said, well, why don't you call the post?
And the story's not true before they run.
And he said, well, Ron, there's some fact and some fiction in it.
And I can't call them and deny it.
And he said to Ron, why don't you call the post and say that they can't run the story unless Dean confirms it and Dean hasn't confirmed it?
Ron said, that's ridiculous, John, and you know it.
They won't hold on that.
He suggested that Dean F. Fielding call the post and handle it.
And Dean said, well, maybe I can do that.
I want you to know I'm not playing games.
This is a phishing-type story, and they're just trying to smoke something out.
A little later, Dean called Ron back just a minute ago, as a matter of fact.
And he said, I can't call the post, but why don't you, Ron, call the guy from the post and say that you have talked with me, and that at no time did I say that Haldeman was involved.
Well.
So Ron's going to try that, but he's afraid that Dean cleverly waited until 9.30 to tell him that so that it would be too late to change the story.
This is, Bob, these are the things we sort of expect this, don't we?
Sure.
The Dean thing.
We'll just stand firm on it.
That's all.
Don't you agree?
What the hell else are we going to do?
I don't think we want to take more of a lying down than we have to.
I agree.
I agree.
I don't know what the hell to do with Dean.
That's the problem.
Isn't that it?
He's obviously got other people playing his game that are tougher than he intends to.
His lawyer, probably, huh?
Who is it?
His lawyer, yeah.
His associates up and down, huh?
What was he referring to?
Merrimackman and you, and who's down?
Wilson, of course.
Or it could be people over at the committee, or, you know, LaRue and...
fellows, I asked them their judgment, and they said that whatever it's worth, I mean, they don't buy the garment theory.
You know.
Are they taking any action now?
Might, yes.
On resigning, they said, well, just have to, of course, with all this, they said that they just it would be a
of guilt, that's what they'd say.
Well, I think you're right.
That's the point.
So we're going to have to fight it out.
The point is that what you do is to let them run their story and then their stories and so forth and so on.
But then you have to play it, as they say, day by day.
And the U.S. Attorney is
choice, whether he's going to indict or put you on a list of non-indictable people.
Or nothing at all, which is what they think he's going to do.
At this moment, yeah.
They don't think he's got corroboration, but if he doesn't, why, that's...
They probably told you they find this whole procedure highly irregular.
Yeah, they do.
But they say it's done.
It's irregular, but it's done.
It's really an interesting gun.
Yeah, it sure is.
I like them both.
They both say they have, I don't think they've seen these stories, but I mean, they're going to be affected by stories that come out.
I told them, I said, you're going to have a hell of a lot of stories here.
It's going to be blasting off.
And I think you've got to expect more of it, don't you?
Yep.
We just batten down the hatches and take it.
Isn't that right?
I'm not sure how we've got to get the legal part perfected.
And then we've got to move on to public.
We can't just hunker down and take it for...
I agree.
I agree.
They, of course, ruled.
I didn't talk to them about what do they think about your making a state matter or something or that sort of thing.
They're worried about it, but they see that they're not close to it at this point.
I think there's
You know, we can probably convince them that that's not a bad idea.
They've gone over my statement.
I've given it to them.
They don't have much trouble with it except in a couple areas.
Right, right.
Incidentally, are you and John going to Florida?
I don't know.
We were planning to.
The thing with them, we're trying to figure it out whether we should or not.
It may be that we ought not to be gone this weekend.
Oh, to work with your attorney?
Yeah.
Probably so.
Probably so.
But do what you want.
You're certainly welcome.
That's very nice.
Nice hell.
It's just whatever you want, you know, here.
We were concerned about appearance if we don't go or if I don't, but I don't really think that matters much, especially because it's Easter.
No, it's Easter.
You're going to stay with your family.
No, I hadn't thought about it.
We can just say you're going down to spend Easter with your family, and we're spending Easter with our families.
That's right.
It's a family deal, sure.
don't go, what we might do if it's okay is go up to Camp David.
Right.
For a day or two.
Excellent idea.
We've got reporters camping on the door here now.
Go up to Camp David, Bob.
We'll see.
Incidentally, I have a cabinet tomorrow.
Be sure to be there.
Yes, sir.
Don't worry.
Don't worry.
We're going to be right there.
I'll just state out what, you know,
I have my own conviction, which I think I should to the cabinet.
You have your own conviction about you're going to follow this through, but don't support anybody.
Don't say you stand by us or anything.
Why not?
I just think you should.
There's so many weird bounces in this.
If one of us gets a bad bounce at some point and has to do something, then to your face.
I say that we've
I'm not going to mention any names.
As I said publicly, I will say privately to you, there's going to be no cover-up in this.
Our record on this investigation is going to prove that we've done everything we could in the proper fashion, respecting both the need to prosecute and the need to protect.
And rather than say that I stand by Ehrlichman and Holloman, that's what I would say.
Because, see, the thing is, nobody yet has a word about, really, about Ehrlichman, and they're now all saying that there is no evidence on me.
Well, that's right.
That's Dean, though.
That's right.
And that's Dean, and it may not go out.
I mean, the Post would use it, don't you think?
I don't know.
They may not.
I'm telling you what.
It's a dangerous thing.
There's a lot of rough games being played here.
There's a lot of rough games being played here.
They may be afraid of the libel.
We come out better playing a strong game than we do a weak game all the way along.
But I don't think in that that you as president should now endorse anybody.
I guess you're right.
Because in the first place, if you say... First of all, first of all... That's what I say about Mitchell.
What do you say about Mitchell?
What do you say about Dean?
That's right.
More suspicion on Dean now.
You're going to say you stand by me, but not by him.
That's right.
And if I say that, then Dean says, what the hell, why don't I stand by him?
You could say, I'm not going to mention any names, but I would caution any of you to come to any conclusions about any individuals.
Yeah, that's right.
Because there are a lot of loose charges here, as well as some valid ones.
That's right.
And until they're properly sorted out, it would be very wise for everybody to keep his mouth shut.
That's right.
And his mind open.
That's good, Bob.
That's good.
This thing about this stuff and hot stuff that was discarded, I don't know what.
It's incredible.
This thing is so freaking bizarre that it's gone.
But you say Silbert, what does he say about it?
I didn't hear that.
Well, I guess he got from Colson saying that the material was offered to Silbert at some point.
They said they'd give it to him, and he said he didn't want it.
puts him in a very sticky wicket now that it's known that he exists.
So he has said this story that this lawyer had it, or that this lawyer's client had it for all through the summer is preposterous.
It's kind of a stupid thing for him to say.
There's no point in saying anything.
He overreacted, I guess, to this.
And lawyers may have told you when they talked this over today, they said he was very uptight and very formal and obviously sort of harassed.
They know Silbert very well, though.
They know...
But Silbert, yeah, they only met him once.
The lawyer says that he offered to Silbert.
Is that the story?
No.
Colson says.
So Colson obviously must know something about this.
I think, John, I didn't get the full feel on this because John came in at the end of the meeting with... And Colson was offered to Silbert.
Yeah.
who was worried about the safe, as I recall, too.
Who may have told somebody, you know, for heaven's sake, get over there and
We've got to be careful not to draw a conclusion.
That's right.
We just really don't know.
We don't know.
That's right.
It would be awful unfair to somebody.
That's right.
I couldn't agree more.
That's right.
We're not going to do that.
Well, it's certainly the difficult one here to figure out is Dean, isn't it?
Sure.
Goddamn him.
I don't know what...
He's totally distorted in his own mind now.
Yeah.
Consequently, I guess, very dangerous.
Yeah.
Okay, we'll just have to see.
That's right, thank you.