Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 381 › Conversation 381-019

Nixon & Ehrlichman on Executive reorganization and FBI leadership

Monday, December 18, 1972 · 2:35 PM–2:43 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 1 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.; [Unknown person(s)]Conversation381-019 on Tape 381StartMonday, December 18, 1972 at 2:35 PMEndMonday, December 18, 1972 at 2:43 PMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 381-019 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discussed the strategic reorganization of the executive branch and federal agencies during the transition into the second term. Key focus areas included leadership prospects for the FBI, specifically regarding Richard Kleindienst and Frank Rizzo, and the consolidation of narcotics oversight within the White House. Ehrlichman confirmed he tasked William Timmons with gauging legislative sentiment as the administration moved to centralize administrative control.

Audio

Download MP3 · 2.0 MB

Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

Download transcript (.txt) · JSON data

· Click a timestamp to play from that point; the page address then links to that moment (e.g. #t=125).
I have no answer to the FBI.
No.
This will hold us for a while.
He was off the lance again.
I think the fact that he got in and was able to talk to the vehicle pulled him out.
And let's just work our way through it and see what evolves.
I've asked Simmons to do a little looking around on the hill to see what sort of sound he gets.
So many things are still on the ground, but it's too soon for him to be able to do it.
But I think he's just had to take a step at a time.
All right, how do you think?
that don't help us to get the better out of the White House.
We've got to be right out and good at it to do it.
And maybe it doesn't work.
I thought it had to.
It has.
We've got to parse it and re-organize it and bring it all into the White House.
We'll see what we can do.
We'll see what we can do.
We'll see what we can do.
We'll see what we can do.
I think that's all good.
Good.
I think it's a good idea to get ready to use that.
Good.
Good.

NARA Description

On December 18, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:35 pm and 2:43 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 381-019 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 381-19

Date: December 18, 1972
Time: Unknown between 2:35 pm and 2:43 pm
Location: Executive Office Building
                                             -41-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                              Conversation No. 381-21 (cont’d)

The President met with John D. Ehrlichman.

*****************************************************************

BEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1
[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 11/01/2019.
Segment will remain closed.]
[Personal Returnable]
[381-019-w001]
[Duration: 1m 2s]

END WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1

*****************************************************************

       The President’s schedule
            -Meeting with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
                  -Timing

       Second term reorganization
            -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
                  -Richard G. Kleindienst
                  -Frank L. Rizzo
                  -Francis L. Dale [?]
                        -Ehrlichman’s instruction to William E. Timmons
            -Narcotics
                  -White House
                        -Roy L. Ash
                        -Myles J. Ambrose
                        -Ash

An unknown person entered at an unknown time after 2:35 pm.

Ehrlichman left at 2:43 pm.
                                               -42-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                                              Conversation No. 381-21 (cont’d)

Also recorded on December 18, 1972

  • 034-129 1:18 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 1:18 pm and 2:45 pm.
  • 381-014 1:18 PM · 28 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 1:18 pm and 1:20 pm.
  • 381-015 1:20 PM · 21 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, and David C. Hoopes met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:20 pm to 1:40 pm.
  • 381-016 1:43 PM · 10 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 1:43 pm.
  • 381-017 1:43 PM · 23 min — President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:43 pm to 2:05 pm.
  • 381-018 2:06 PM · 33 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Richard G. Kleindienst, John D. Ehrlichman, and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:06 pm to 2:35 pm.
  • 381-020 2:43 PM · 27 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:43 pm and 2:45 pm.
  • 381-021 2:45 PM · 2 hr 27 min — President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, Marjorie P. Acker, Henry A. Kissinger, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, John D. Ehrlichman, and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:45 pm to 5:50 pm.

All 29 conversations from December 18, 1972 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 381-019, December 18, 1972. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/381-019 (accessed October 5, 2026).