{"conversationCode":"381-019","tapeNumber":381,"conversationNumber":19,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-381-019","startDateTime":"1972-12-18T19:35:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1972-12-18T19:43:00.000Z","startDate":"18-Dec-1972","startTime":"2:35 PM","endDate":"18-Dec-1972","endTime":"2:43 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.; [Unknown person(s)];","description":"On December 18, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, John D. Ehrlichman, and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 2:35 pm and 2:43 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 381-019 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":"5.2","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part II","chronReleaseDate":"2-Dec-2008","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 381-19\n\nDate: December 18, 1972\nTime: Unknown between 2:35 pm and 2:43 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\f                                             -41-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                              Conversation No. 381-21 (cont’d)\n\nThe President met with John D. Ehrlichman.\n\n*****************************************************************\n\nBEGIN WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift 11/01/2019.\nSegment will remain closed.]\n[Personal Returnable]\n[381-019-w001]\n[Duration: 1m 2s]\n\nEND WITHDRAWN ITEM NO. 1\n\n*****************************************************************\n\n       The President’s schedule\n            -Meeting with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman\n                  -Timing\n\n       Second term reorganization\n            -Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]\n                  -Richard G. Kleindienst\n                  -Frank L. Rizzo\n                  -Francis L. Dale [?]\n                        -Ehrlichman’s instruction to William E. Timmons\n            -Narcotics\n                  -White House\n                        -Roy L. Ash\n                        -Myles J. Ambrose\n                        -Ash\n\nAn unknown person entered at an unknown time after 2:35 pm.\n\nEhrlichman left at 2:43 pm.\n\f                                               -42-\n\n                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                              Conversation No. 381-21 (cont’d)","filename":["381-019.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ehrlichman, John D.","[Unknown person(s)]"],"prevCode":"381-018","nextCode":"381-020","transcript":[{"start":0.03,"end":17.84,"text":"I have no answer to the FBI."},{"start":18.32,"end":18.48,"text":"No."},{"start":19,"end":20.71,"text":"This will hold us for a while."},{"start":21.82,"end":24.52,"text":"He was off the lance again."},{"start":24.78,"end":34.47,"text":"I think the fact that he got in and was able to talk to the vehicle pulled him out."},{"start":34.75,"end":36.66,"text":"And let's just work our way through it and see what evolves."},{"start":36.67,"end":39.3,"text":"I've asked Simmons to do a little looking around on the hill to see what sort of sound he gets."},{"start":39.32,"end":42.8,"text":"So many things are still on the ground, but it's too soon for him to be able to do it."},{"start":42.82,"end":43.96,"text":"But I think he's just had to take a step at a time."},{"start":45.85,"end":46.73,"text":"All right, how do you think?"},{"start":48.63,"end":59.44,"text":"that don't help us to get the better out of the White House."},{"start":60.87,"end":63.23,"text":"We've got to be right out and good at it to do it."},{"start":63.25,"end":65.55,"text":"And maybe it doesn't work."},{"start":65.57,"end":67.49,"text":"I thought it had to."},{"start":67.51,"end":67.77,"text":"It has."},{"start":67.79,"end":71.84,"text":"We've got to parse it and re-organize it and bring it all into the White House."},{"start":71.86,"end":72.78,"text":"We'll see what we can do."},{"start":72.8,"end":73.56,"text":"We'll see what we can do."},{"start":73.58,"end":74.64,"text":"We'll see what we can do."},{"start":74.66,"end":75.16,"text":"We'll see what we can do."},{"start":76.04,"end":79.27,"text":"I think that's all good."},{"start":79.45,"end":79.55,"text":"Good."},{"start":79.57,"end":82.24,"text":"I think it's a good idea to get ready to use that."},{"start":82.26,"end":82.44,"text":"Good."},{"start":83.38,"end":83.48,"text":"Good."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and John Ehrlichman discussed the strategic reorganization of the executive branch and federal agencies during the transition into the second term. Key focus areas included leadership prospects for the FBI, specifically regarding Richard Kleindienst and Frank Rizzo, and the consolidation of narcotics oversight within the White House. Ehrlichman confirmed he tasked William Timmons with gauging legislative sentiment as the administration moved to centralize administrative control.","topics":["Executive reorganization","FBI leadership","Narcotics policy","Second term planning","White House administration"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T17:41:30.348Z"},"topicSlugs":["executive-reorganization","fbi-leadership","narcotics-policy","second-term-planning","white-house-administration"],"audioDurationSec":88,"audioFiles":[{"file":"381-019.mp3","bytes":2125329,"durationSec":88.41,"bitrate":192308,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:45.212Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:30.286Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/381-019.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/381-019","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/381/conversation-381-019","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}