Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 383-001
Date: Thursday, December 14, 1972 at 2:30 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.; Haig, Alexander M., Jr.; Bull, Stephen B.; Getty, Jean Paul
Recording device: Old Executive Office Building
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/383-001

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:07] Because the formal proposal to come to the May Blast was accepted on May 8th.
[0:17] They had accepted our proposal.
[0:22] They had accepted the proposal, which you had adjourned, so we had no reason to suppose that we could not bring him along.
[0:29] Second, the things we wanted to fix were, if they were in good faith, easily fixed.
[0:32] And we assumed that they had to be in good faith having gone this far.
[0:34] The President said repeatedly he would sign the treaty.
[0:43] Stopping the bomb in the north of the 20th parallel on the 23rd.
[0:51] Why don't you put that in?
[0:53] So wait, so...
[0:54] The demonstration is a good thing.
[0:56] Just to show how far you can stop the bomb.
[0:58] It was an easy matter if they were willing to honor the spirit of what we had at least before.
[1:05] It became insoluble if they wanted to use it as a substitute for doing what, for who he is the president introduced it to.
[1:09] Now, since then, what have they done?
[1:23] are trying to interpret every provision in such a way not that it would present peace.
[2:03] I just called to wish you a happy heathen birthday.
[2:08] And I... Well, we remember our visit there, and we came to see you, and I...
[2:37] have a great life to look back on and a great life to look forward to.
[2:52] We've still got a few problems, but we'll work them out.
[3:18] ... ... ... ... ...
[4:13] I've made it very clear, Mr. President, this past Thursday, the point you made this morning, here it takes a speech because the National Defense Committee sent it, and it's basically a dollar to the bottom.
[4:33] It's nothing to me.
[4:33] Now, imagine the dollar.
[4:34] You risk your whole political future in that.
[4:36] In retrospect, it all looks easy, but if the Senate doesn't know enough, as there was a 50-50 chance that it might, Michael, obviously, you might have lost the election.
[4:43] So, uh, you went right on the line.
[4:49] You could have flushed him a hundred times.
[4:52] All you had to do was follow the advice of your advisor.
[4:56] All you had to do was not increase your voice.
[4:58] You'd be dead.
[4:58] I think it should be a very cold, wetter, or eukaryotic.
[5:02] Better cold.
[5:03] Or do you want it?
[5:03] Good.
[5:04] Circulation.
[5:07] Now, will you prepare better now or work on it a little?
[5:11] I think it should be cold and just safe.
[5:15] I really think that the only
[5:48] You don't think it will really fly.
[5:56] And then, you said they have to fly those fighters, the fighters that have to fly it.
[6:04] They get to the point where they're not going to be able to record it.
[6:06] I think it's good enough so it's actually not going to fly out.
[6:08] I think it's a little bit more than they can fly.
[6:11] Okay.
[6:12] Now that, have we ever put 60-150 meters over an hour before?
[6:16] No.
[6:16] We had that at 30.
[6:17] That's one mission.
[6:22] What mission?
[6:24] IPHON.
[6:24] In the middle of the airfield.
[6:26] We had one mission of T-55 in IPHON in 10 minutes.
[6:30] It shook them up more than any other mission we undertook.
[6:35] And the targets?
[6:50] Yeah.
[6:55] Yeah.
[7:03] Yeah.
[7:09] Yeah.
[7:13] Yeah.
[7:18] Can I do that to George?
[7:29] Huh?
[7:29] And George.
[7:31] And the bucket.
[7:32] Now, just the fact that you're going magically with people is good.
[7:36] They have told their population that they're going to eat you.
[7:43] They're playing chicken with us.
[7:45] That guy is on his last legs because they think they can do less of all this.
[7:48] and they can grab together to take it back to very close to October 26th.
[7:54] Then when we do this, they're going to scream from the roof, and they'll tear us down, and they'll bring you down to death.
[8:02] So I think now is the time, Mr. President.
[8:07] There's one flaw in that, which we gave last week.
[8:11] We said the U.S. will respect the integrity and so forth.
[8:13] We should now
[8:16] It's a minor point.
[8:21] It doesn't make any operational difference.
[8:26] But you cannot let them...
[8:27] The letter backed off this proposition that we should forget the language and just go ahead and sign it.
[8:34] No, but you're not going to let me do that.
[8:51] But Rodgers will be more complex.
[8:56] Rodgers will not fight you.
[9:04] Rodgers will not defend you.
[9:09] You've got to say it's important policy in the United States.
[9:12] And Rodgers will usually try to get away, but that's not how he's tried for four years.
[9:14] What do you think he should do with Rodgers?
[9:15] I don't want to get in with Rodgers.
[9:17] Do you agree with that, Al?
[9:18] Why do I, if I get anything?
[9:23] He won't fight.
[9:24] He'll be on the board.
[9:25] Why'd he do it?
[9:25] Why didn't he just board his car?
[9:28] We should have done this.
[9:30] We should have done it.
[9:31] All right.
[9:31] All right.
[9:32] He's done it.
[9:32] He just did it.
[9:33] He agrees with himself.
[10:11] I think Hanoi, as it was, end of November, they were ready to case against a lot of concessions.
[10:48] They have nothing they can do to improve their situation.
[10:57] And if they think you're going to pay them for six months, and if their mind stays in court, they're going to be finished as a functioning society.
[11:11] All right.
[11:11] What's your name?
[11:12] My name's .
[11:13] I don't know about you, but you've done anything good.
[11:28] You've spent a better experience than I've ever done.
[11:30] What are you going to tell me, Frank?
[11:33] I'll be very, very honest, though.
[11:34] I won't force you to know that, but I want to tell you something.
[11:35] I know you're going to be forced to.
[11:37] But, hey, I know when you're going to be fast on the highway, it makes it impossible to put you in the middle of people's faces.
[11:44] Simply, as you quoted for us, we have something that we should do and judge what we're going to do.
[11:58] Let's say, why don't you say it?
[11:59] I'll tell you the truth.
[12:00] I'm very grateful for your actions.
[12:04] You realize how it really is.
[12:14] He has to take the matter into his own hands, and he wants you to take no one to each another.
[12:29] I don't think we should do that, Mr. President, because he's our coach, and he must have the model.
[12:35] We don't want him to throw us a concession.
[12:36] It's not us who's doing it.
[12:37] We should just say, we'll have to do it.
[12:38] Mr. President, I'll just say, the president doesn't plan to do it.
[12:39] We're just going to have to do it.
[12:41] Just remember that.
[12:46] I just want you both to just leave this one, that whatever happens, the Brezhnev relationship, the president considers it most important to do nothing.
[13:02] He wants to retain that relationship.
[13:03] When the big event put up next year, it's going to be the Brezhnev-Lewis relationship.
[13:08] We have this problem, Henry.
[13:12] The Brezhnev visit.
[13:13] So it's scheduled for May.
[13:14] So at that time, it was still bombing, but if you just thought it might be enough.
[13:23] My God.
[13:26] Mr. President, if you do it thoroughly, it will be enough.
[13:29] It cannot last.
[13:29] It will not last.
[13:31] That's what you're talking about, eh?
[13:32] It's going to get closer than that.
[13:33] Now, what do you think?
[13:33] It's going to be perfect.
[13:40] President Bush had gone as far as they did.
[13:46] And they are heading towards a settlement.
[13:47] They're getting their little ocean friends in to change for a settlement.
[13:52] And now that that's sustained, they can pull a poultry ploy up.
[13:55] And, I mean, some of the things they did last week, they told us they chose to be fired in ours if we gave them a concession on the treaty.
[14:07] We gave them the concession, so they chose to not hand that in.
[14:09] I say, well, I'm not sure of the name, but I understand that if they pay for that, you have to pull out the civilian employees.
[14:20] And some people, you know, just tell me, and they will be fired and out.
[14:28] This company has got that thing to us.
[14:29] Uh-huh.
[14:30] So they are saying, they are saying, they are saying, I'm serious right now, I can use it as a system, right, eventually.
[14:35] I mean, you've never done it.
[14:42] You're never going to do it if you turn back.
[14:52] Realize it.
[14:55] Realize it.
[15:06] I think Mr. President would be a stronger president.
[15:17] But I'm not convinced he's going to still run for office.
[15:21] I want the right kind of people.
[15:22] You see, Sager has seen this very clearly.
[15:24] He says that much better than the
[15:40] On the other hand, I want you to be sure to couch this in terms.
[15:50] All is not lost.
[15:52] We're hopeful.
[15:53] We're ready.
[15:54] But, uh, please, I will say this, but the fact is, we could have been in a week.
[15:59] But it would not last.
[16:00] No, but we could have been at the wrong time of season week.
[16:04] Right.
[16:04] We could have been at the easy time of season week, but it is their will to carry out these assumptions on which our agreement was made.
[16:13] They don't care about it.
[16:23] It's just an example.
[16:26] Exactly, yeah.
[16:34] I think the idea is very good.
[16:42] They now put out a condition which does not give back our prisoners of war.
[16:52] Therefore, today, when the POW thing goes, I want Ron, I want something that bears it.
[17:00] Ron puts tremendous weight on the fact that we are doing this because we are trying to
[17:07] Here is what Sullivan said about the DOW protocol.
[17:14] He gave it only to be in text.
[17:18] We expect to receive an English language text of this order when we meet a ship tomorrow.
[17:23] We will transmit it to you through this channel.
[17:45] Yeah.
[17:47] Yeah.
[17:52] Yeah.
[18:01] Yeah.
[18:12] Good morning.
[18:14] Good morning.
[18:15] Good morning.