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Conversation 385-014

TapeTape 385StartMonday, December 11, 1972 at 5:14 PMEndMonday, December 11, 1972 at 5:37 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.;  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob");  Haig, Alexander M., Jr.;  Eisenhower, Julie NixonRecording deviceOld Executive Office Building
AudioNARA Description

On December 11, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., and Julie Nixon Eisenhower met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:14 pm to 5:37 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 385-014 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 385-14

Date: December 11, 1972
Time: 5:14 pm - 5:37 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Charles W. Colson.

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[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

       The President’s foot

       Republican Party
             -George H. W. Bush
             -Harry S. Dent
                     -Statement
                                             -16-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. July-08)

                                                           Conversation No. 385-14 (cont’d)

              -Gerald R. Ford
              -Robert J. Dole
              -Clark MacGregor
              -Public relations [PR]
              -Dole
                     -Speech
              -Bush
                     -Republican National Committee [RNC] Chairman
                              -Appointment
                                     -Public reaction
                                             -Wire services
                     -Popularity
                     -Dole
                              -Temperment
              -John B. Connally
                     -Democratic National Committee [DNC] Chairman
                              -Robert S. Strauss
                     -Democratic Party
                              -Presidential nomination
                     -Third party
                              -Constituency
                                     -Independents, Republicans
                              -“Nixon Party”
                              -Republican Party name
                                     -Connotations
                                             -Big business
                                             -Minority party
                                             -Elitism
                                             -Elderly
                                                     -Youth
                              -Switching parties
                              -Republican Independent Party

H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman entered at 5:20 pm.

                             -James B. (“Scotty”) Reston
              -Public statements
                     -Dent
                     -Ford
                     -Hugh Scott
                                              -17-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                        (rev. July-08)

                                                            Conversation No. 385-14 (cont’d)

                     -MacGregor
                     -John N. Mitchell
                            -Press coverage
                     -Dole
              -PR
                    -Cabinet change
                    -Party change
              -Connally
                    -New coalition
                            -Harry F. Byrd, Jr.
                    -Timing
                    -Strauss

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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Alexander M. Haig, Jr. talked with the President between 5:21 pm and 5:29 pm.

[Conversation No. 385-14A]

[See Conversation No. 34-45]

[End of telephone conversation]

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[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

       Republican Party
             -PR
                     -Opposition
                     -Ford
                     -Secretary of State
                     -Scott

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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                                             -18-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. July-08)

                                                            Conversation No. 385-14 (cont’d)

       Second term reorganization
             -Peter J. Brennan
                     -Under Secretary of Labor
                            -Work with John D. Ehrlichman
                                    -Labor policy
                            -Commerce Department
                                    -George P. Shultz
                            -The President’s decisions
                            -Shultz
                            -J[ames] Curtis Counts
                                    -Shultz’s and Colson’s view
                                    -Loyalty
                                    -Labor support
                                    -Issues
                                    -Conversation with Colson
                                            -New York
                                            -Issues
                                                     -Business
                                    -Interest in job

Julie Nixon Eisenhower entered at 5:30 pm.

       The President's schedule

Julie Nixon Eisenhower left at an unknown time before 5:35 pm.

       Second term reorganization
             -Under Secretary of Labor
             -Brennan
                     -Colson’s conversation with Shultz
             -Michael J. Farrell
                     -Retention

Colson left at 5:35 pm.

       Second term reorganization
             -Farrell
                     -Frederic V. Malek
             -John E. Nidecker
                     -John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts
                                             -19-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                        (rev. July-08)

                                                              Conversation No. 385-14 (cont’d)

                             -Managerial staff
              -Farrell
                      -Conversation with Haldeman
                      -[Patrick H. Price]
              -Under Secretary of Labor
                      -Counts
                              -Brennan
                                     -Jews
                              -Loyalty
                              -Qualifications
                              -[Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service]

Haldeman left at an unknown time before 5:37 pm.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Yes, sir.
I'll check all right.
All right.
What is the, I wondered if you had been able to spare a few, of course, two Republicans who were afraid to push this announcement and so forth and so forth?
We've been out for some days.
Yes, sir.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Dean.
You know, I had to, I had to asshole with them.
I didn't have enough time to say it and speak it out.
I guess the first good thing that's really been said by a Republican since the election is that they're here again.
And I'm rather curious, why did nobody else vote in that election?
The Charity Board didn't.
The old McGregor, he's been gone.
We've missed him.
You know, you know that.
He shouldn't have been operating this much now.
McGregor, McGregor just re-opened his, his drive and also,
He was the one that was there.
He was the one that sat in for advice.
So we didn't have anybody ready to put our side across.
No one told Michael that he gave two speeches that I asked him to give and wrote.
Yeah.
It would very help me if I had a speech and I could work with the press that I had.
Well, Bob and everything had it.
Bob and everything had it.
We're good.
We're good.
All right.
The reactions on Bush were just something to watch.
We're very good.
We're good.
The majority of the subcontractors in the field.
George Bush is the man who was the middle man in the field.
We had a very good response to him.
When he was on the field, he was the man of growth.
And he's a nice guy, and he'll be able to do what he loves.
But it's good to be able to go out and challenge him.
But I'll try to figure out what's in that category.
It just kind of turns sour at times.
It's very low-beating temperamentalism.
I think the bush changes.
I was a bush.
Bush would work with us all the time.
We did that for a week and a half.
Yes, we will.
And there was a kind of investment.
And I did it.
Yeah, I did it for a week and a half.
Well, I had a strong feeling that he was making it up.
And I said, I'd like to see you when you come to this room, John.
And I said, what about it?
And he said, no, we, I said, we need to have an argument.
He said, we want to have an argument.
He said, that's going to take quite a bit of time.
And I said, well, I've just been assessing it.
What can we do?
I think it's going to take a little bit of time.
And I was to tell, describe such a challenge to him.
And he said, why?
And I said, I don't want to know what it was.
What if I was going to be arrested?
And he said, that's not something you can do.
And I said, you have no chance.
And he said, absolutely, you have no chance.
And I said to him, well, you don't have to deal with Russians.
It's just that every day you see them in the whole city.
It's just that every day counts.
He said, I'm not getting rid of you, so I'm going to work for you.
I said, well, I'm going to work for you.
That's what we're trying to do.
It's a combination of both.
Yeah, it is.
I'd love to see that.
It's the best you can do.
It's the best you can do.
It's the best you can do.
That's really important.
It has the sound of big business.
It has the sound of minority party.
It has the sound of hedonism.
It has the sound of old farts.
It really does.
It doesn't track all young people.
Young Republicans are usually considered reclusive.
Rarely is it a fellow thing.
And it is unfortunate because there are a lot of good Republicans.
They're the best people I know.
I know all about them.
But I had a very distinct view of the county.
It was a lot more important to have him in the program.
You know, he's kind of very vocal about it.
He's very vocal about it.
And he's kind of come up with a lot of things in a way that I was going to expose to him.
And that movie was an argument.
It was not an argument.
by what you see to do with the system and what it's not.
But it's just becoming more and more public.
I think it's starting to be a great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great
Yeah.
The only good statement made by a Republican since the election is that I just think he's one of the best.
What have they seen in the evidence?
We've seen it from Ford.
We've seen it from Scott.
We've seen it from Scott.
We've seen it from the leaders.
We've seen it from McGregor to the left.
Of course, we've seen it from Mitchell to the right.
So forth.
Right.
But it didn't rule on it.
Yeah.
The bill had a couple of things to do with that.
It was a new program.
It was a new program.
It was a new program.
Plus, the bill can't afford that.
But they did a good job.
The story ran fine, but it still says it's not.
Well, let's see that we can better remember, better push this.
I just wonder if we kind of, you know, have to go with the capital change.
I mean, the party change.
I mean, that's how it is.
Why did she put the two together?
Very perfect.
Bob Conley can't wait too long.
He can't wait too long.
He can't wait too long.
But I think that's just why he is waiting for his shared power.
He's got to do it in a manner of principle.
So they didn't want to have a party, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
All right.
All right.
Oh, .
.
.
.
I think that's a good idea.
I think that's a good idea.
I think that's a good idea.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you.
to get through to the board when we didn't have any options.
That's one of the aspects of getting to the board when you can't get through to the board when you can't get to the board when you don't have any options.
So, uh, if you could, uh, say to the board, and say to the board,
Why does he do this out of the first place?
But after a while, they don't pay attention to it.
Well, that's all I wanted to cover.
I wanted to make sure .
On the track and .
We're running into the same situation.
I want to get command.
I want to get command.
I want to get command.
I want to get command.
I want to get command.
I want to get command.
.
.
.
.
.
Chuck, the apartment on Brennan, for example, I'm just encouraging you to be sure that if you have a secretary level, you've got somebody that can work directly with her.
See if there are other ones who might have one hell of a spot in that situation.
You can't let those people work with another.
I'm not referring to the big place about labor policy.
I'm referring to the labor policy.
I'm not referring to the labor policy.
Congress has a whole bag full of shelves and fritzes and things where we should never get up to be on a certain undersecretary level.
That'll have to be somebody that's brain-developed to be discussing it with the machinery over here.
Rather than having a subject that is discussion-related, I don't want things to be made or any level of narrative
involved in political policy is very important.
I'll make a big decision about this thing.
There's so much trouble over there.
I don't know what we're going to do.
I don't know what we're going to do.
I don't know what we're going to do.
I don't know what we're going to do.
I don't know what we're going to do.
And I believe that Schultz strongly believed that, and I'm just glad for that.
I appreciate the compliment.
Brad, because he had all these other issues, and I should probably thank you for that.
And Kirk Thomas, who he had guided to the Hill as well.
And I'm just glad he's there, and he's here.
And I believe he's strong, and I think we should all thank Schultz.
Schultz, I think, is the best person.
George, I think, is the best person.
... ... ... ... ... ...
.
.
.
.
.
Hi, what's going on?
Hi, Doug.
We'll be touching about an hour.
Yeah, that's fine.
We'll work on that.
I'm just worried about the resources coming.
I know we still should be sure to come all the way .
Yeah, I do too.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
He wanted to move over to work with the Kennedy Center, which would be a bad thing to do.
He has a great interest in that, apparently.
That wouldn't be better than to get our guy over there.
Sure.
Manage your little staff somewhere.
So do I.
And if he wants to do that, give us somebody over there.
They have a problem.
We'll see.
A little bit of a lowly workout.
Yeah, nothing.
But then I told Mike that, you know, I had said from what he had said earlier that he wanted to change.
He said, no, he didn't.
He just wanted to be sure it was understood.
He was willing to change.
He didn't want to create any problems.
But Mike just didn't work for it.
That's how it is.
All right.
He pulled the back of himself out with a big guy.
His second guy left.
So we get a...
I don't know if you guys... Nope.
All right.
That'll be set.
Right.
All right.
So there's no problem.
I've got no problem.
You might do a lot worse over there than .
That's my opinion.
You won't.
You will have to see the department.
Apparently, Brendan has that.
He wants to get all the news out and all that.
Let Brendan do that and get it administrated.
assistant secretary to do the work on that one.
Kurt, do the day-to-day labor department substance.
It's a different approach than we're doing on some departments, but that's all right.
The advantage is he's totally your guy.
Sure is.
And there's nobody else in the labor view after that is.
I mean, he'll sit in those meetings, probably our patient, the patient plus the host.
Again, he has the credentials and the weight and challenges.
qualifications.
What a good market we're on.
So, you know, that was our first government for the high ground, not for the department, because we wanted to do a less regulated accounts job, which now they don't seem to think is a good idea.
But that doesn't matter.
It still counts in the department.
Okay.
← 385-013385-015 →