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Conversation 389-018

TapeTape 389StartSaturday, November 4, 1972 at 11:02 AMEndSaturday, November 4, 1972 at 11:40 AMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob");  Colson, Charles W.;  Ziegler, Ronald L.;  Hibbard, Henry;  Bull, Stephen B.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building
AudioNARA Description

On November 4, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, Charles W. Colson, Ronald L. Ziegler, Henry Hibbard, and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 11:02 am and 11:40 am. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 389-018 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 389-18

Date: November 4, 1972
Time: Unknown between 11:02 am and 11:40 am
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

       Press relations
             -Ronald L. Ziegler
                    -Judgment

       The President’s schedule
            -Charles W. Colson
                  -Arrival

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[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

       1972 campaign
            -Telephone calls
                  -Value
            -George S. McGovern
                  -Vietnam settlement
                        -Statement
                                             -21-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                        (rev. Feb.-08)

                                                           Conversation No. 389-18 (cont’d)

                              -Sense of desperation
             -Charles W. Colson
                  -Comments on campaign
             -Local campaigns
                  -Governors

Colson and Ziegler entered at 11:05 am.

The President talked with Henry Hibbard between 11:04 am and 11:06 am.

[Conversation No. 389-18A]

[See Conversation No. 33-33]

[End of telephone conversation]

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
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Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown after 11:06 am.

       John B. Connally’s [?] schedule
            -Cincinnati
                  -1972 campaign

       The President’s schedule

Bull left at an unknown before 11:15 am.

*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

       1972 campaign
            -Vice President Spiro T. Agnew
                  -Tough statement
                        -Release
                        -Press conference
                                          -22-

                NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. Feb.-08)

                                                           Conversation No. 389-18 (cont’d)

                           -Arrangements
                           -Media coverage
                     -Topics of discussion
                           -Demonstrators
                -Meeting with Ziegler

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************

     1972 campaign
          -McGovern speech in Chicago, November 3, 1972
               -Response
                    -Desperation
                    -Sabotage
                    -Vietnam negotiations
                          -Progress
                    -Desperation, irresponsibility
                          -Effect on McGovern’s candidacy
                    -Negotiations
                          -Effect of McGovern’s comments on Hanoi
                                -Peace with surrender
                                      -Compared with peace with honor
                                            -Choice for American people in 1968 and 1972
                    -Statement by Agnew
                          -McGovern’s irresponsibility
                          -Praise for Hubert H. Humphrey’s stand on issue

*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

                      -Publicity
                -Public reacation
                      -New England
                -McGovern’s credibility
                      -Accusations against the President
                            -Television [TV]
                            -Vietnam negotiations
                                                -23-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                          (rev. Feb.-08)

                                                              Conversation No. 389-18 (cont’d)

                                       -Political benefits
                   -Response
                        -Ziegler
                        -Agnew
                        -The President
                        -Press

Ziegler and Colson left at 11:15 am.

             -Agnew
                  -Role
                         -Problems
                                -Colson’s handling
                                -Haldeman’s handling
             -McGovern speech in Chicago
                   -Response
                         -William P. Rogers
             -The President’s trips
                   -Chicago
                   -Oklahoma
                   -Mark I. Goode
                         -Arrangements
                         -William H. Carruthers
                   -Chicago
                         -Problems
                         -Publicity
                                -TV
                         -Arrangements
             -Agnew
                   -Crowds
                   -Public relations work
                         -Effectiveness
             -Clark MacGregor
                   -Morale
                   -Statements
                         -Attorney General
                                -Richard G. Kleindienst’s replacement

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
                                           -24-

                 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. Feb.-08)

                                                           Conversation No. 389-18 (cont’d)

*****************************************************************

     Second term reorganization
          -Clark MacGregor
                -New job
                      -[United Aircraft Corp]
                            -Conservatism
                            -Title
                                   -Vice President
                            -Location
                                   -Washington, DC
                -Duties
                      -Travel
                            -Compared to Ronald W. Reagan [job at General Electric]
                            -Explanation of relationship of business and government to
                              students
                      -Expense account
                      -New establishment
                            -“Georgetown salon”
                            -[Barbara Porter (Spicer) MacGregor]
                            -Thomas W. Braden
                                   -Henry A. Kissinger
                -Possible judicial appointment
                -Attitude
                      -White House staff

      White House staff
           -Attitudes
                 -Complainers, leakers
           -Unknown person
                 -Internal memorandum
                       -Writing
                             -Timing
                       -Leak

*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
                                            -25-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. Feb.-08)

                                                             Conversation No. 389-18 (cont’d)

       1972 campaign
            -Letter to the President
                  -Murray M. Chotiner
                  -California
            -Crowds
                  -Ohio
            -MacGregor
            -McGovern
                  -Press coverage
            -James J. Kilpatrick, Jr.
                  -Column

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************

Haldeman left at an unknown time before 11:40 am.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

.
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I wouldn't get to a point where it would start to go off.
I think we basically just spent the fourth box of dollars.
And I think we may be looking at the retailer to go a little bit closer.
I don't think he's saying very much.
Now what he's saying is that you should be able to keep that ball as long as possible.
And we know that his credibility is very, very low.
A lot of times you can do that.
The campaign director said, stay right out of what we are going to do.
Well, I'm going to say, if I'm sitting in all of these, I'm going to get the shit wrong.
And the name of the governor is going to work.
And I'm going to get my job done.
It's not bothering me.
Well, they don't need to do it.
I'm going to be watching nothing.
Nothing.
I'm going to get my job done.
I'm going to get my job done.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hello?
Yeah, I just wanted to tell you that there's a bunch of ladies that I know that I'm still fighting with a heart attack.
all for you, as I do in any case in my letter.
I wish you the very best, and I can't thank you enough for the days with the fellow people of Montana.
I'd like to appreciate the fact that they've always supported me, and I so appreciate their support again, and that I think that what you stand for is a feat with honor, not a record by an animal or a feat with strength.
Good.
You're moving.
You're moving up on my hope.
Because we just wish you the very best.
I know that's what we expected.
I've been amused.
I've been very amused, of course, to the...
I wish we could.
As a matter of fact, let me tell you, I've tried to work out to see if I ever went up that far, but there's just something going on in all directions.
There are reasons I didn't go there, you know, as we like to put it together.
and I'm there to spare all the way.
And you tell that to the press.
Thank you.
The President's coming to town tonight, so this could result in something else.
No, we don't.
I don't know.
Yeah, they've been shot.
I'll be out in a minute.
It's a great good thing.
You can send everyone whatever you want to the police prison.
The prison is willing.
but a very tough thing to do.
And it was actually, I didn't want to embarrass anybody, but still, I didn't want to do it.
And the only way they decided that we could do this, and they didn't, they had a partner, and the only way, not that I stopped, but I called in the person who was in the office, and he said, you know, I've been here for a while, so I didn't let them know.
Now he will do that to you.
He will do that to you.
He will do that to you.
He will do that to you.
He will do that to you.
On the ground.
On the ground.
On the ground.
There was no event set in New Jersey.
All right, but he talked to you, and we're trying to set one up.
They need to work, and it can't be done in the best, you know, in the best versions, you know?
No one allows it right now.
Yeah, we don't even have a computer in New Jersey that we can bring in.
It just happens.
There's nothing there.
There's nothing else that you can take over.
If you try to go for an important statement at this point, it would be a bad business.
Yeah, yeah.
The way to do this is to make maximum use of the office of the vice president and give us a deadline for the vice president.
Without that deadline, we're done.
We're good.
We're effective.
We're effective and careful.
No matter what you do, you have to do that.
That's what you do.
You have to do it.
You have to do it.
You have to do it.
You have to do it.
You have to do it.
You don't think you should have questions.
I agree.
I agree.
I agree.
I agree.
I agree.
We've done it all the time.
We've done it all the time.
We've done it all the time.
We've done it all the time.
We've done it all the time.
We've done it all the time.
We've done it all the time.
We've done it all the time.
The plan is going to fail right now.
In fact, this is out of my sight.
I mean, these negotiations, which are now moving forward in some sense, that's pretty desperate.
Desperate, but they're not doing it.
They're not doing it.
They're not doing it.
They're not doing it.
So they're irresponsible.
They're disqualified.
Then I go on to say what he is trying to do.
and the President of the United States of America.
He's got to get to the other end of the United States of America, and then the American people will have a great kind of lead.
And I think that there's a big, there's a big, there's a massive gravity
This country stands for peace without our not being free.
Let's get out of the way for a second.
The first thing we want to do today is to ask you a question.
The first thing we want to do today is to ask you a question.
The first thing we want to do today is to ask you a question.
The first thing we want to do today is to ask you a question.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's probably what we should be following up on.
It was very quick, it was very tough, and it was very well done, but it didn't get into visibility at all.
The question, the problem here is the question, does it help?
I think, I would look at this one, but it's more struggling on a very high point.
I think that's what we did.
For all the people who are doing this, I intend to create it myself.
I intend, in other words, to take this job and give it a hand.
Alright, let's do the first question.
Right, let's do the first question.
Number one, the credibility is really bad.
How many people believe in this story?
Why do you think that's part of it?
Do you think that's a good answer?
Do you think you can struggle with it?
I don't wonder if people believe something about it.
I don't think that's a good answer.
There's a lot of this around here.
All right, you may have your roll.
You were called to come to the procedure, though.
The line was quite off.
I put out a statement.
I'll read it for the press.
There's no reason to do it.
We need to wait.
So what?
There's no reason to do it?
There's one.
No, I have a problem.
I have a problem.
I have a problem.
I have a problem.
Well, we have a real problem here.
I mean, we've got a lot of work to do.
Some of the guys are working on something, as well as the truck.
That's exactly what I'm saying.
We're allowed to go ahead and adjust as well as we can.
I mean, the work is going on, but we've got to go ahead and adjust.
And just roll it on.
That's what we want to do.
That's why I stress on call.
When you say it's a present order, and you hear this, it's not all good.
I don't want to have to say that.
I mean, it's better for the vice-director to want to do it, and he should.
We're just switching over to him.
Good morning.
Good morning.
It is your plane.
Roger, do you want to ask your questions, or ask mine?
But he didn't work in Chicago or Oklahoma.
His Chicago did not go to Oklahoma.
It doesn't matter who it was.
It doesn't matter who lived in Chicago because of the nature of the man.
But the problem there was the positioning of, they had all of the machinery that was all around them just set up long.
They were down, so we can kind of let them go and hang them up because that's the problem.
And a hanger, specifically a hanger is apparently the worst structure material.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
and sound systems.
I'm back over again today with the latest support from drivers.
I hope you know that this is the best chance.
I'm very, very happy with it.
We're outside.
We're outside.
We're outside.
I think they were pretty good on that.
I think they were pretty good.
Oh yeah, I think I got it to the microphone.
We'll stop that.
The last night they were not as effective.
The reason they're not as effective.
The reason they're not as effective.
The reason they're not as effective.
The reason they're not as effective.
It's a burger.
It's a big guy.
He's biting it a lot.
He's biting it a lot.
The only thing that's perfectly fair to the community is the farmers being advised to be there in the summer of 1996.
If you're in the state, you know that planting is very different.
It's not going to have that in consideration.
So, early on in planting, we stayed in the office for about a year.
You didn't know you had to report something like that.
Anyway, Park's plans to go outside.
He's got an offer.
But she was out.
And I think that's where Park went today.
He was a very big conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative, conservative.
That is good.
And, you know, that's what it is.
There's the man that's calling the estate money.
He's calling the estate money.
He has a cold, another expensive house.
And he sees Washington.
And he sees this thing that our new establishment is building.
He can start.
He doesn't do it now.
Come on.
We'll have the money to do it.
And he'll pay his wife.
It is Sunday night covers instead of Christmas on break, Sunday night covers.
Okay, we'll tell our people.
What's the timing of the program?
We'll have it set up.
All right, we have that report for Christmas on break.
But what you do, you drop it on your history.
You've got another part of the record on the line.
And all the rest of it is Sunday night covers.
And that builds his thing on this specifically.
He's all excited about that trade.
So I just want you to know, because I know you brought me the first thing you shared about what you were about to do.
And I want you to do it.
And then you said maybe later on, if the president probably wanted to consider it on the bench, you could have put it in that.
That's the thing.
You put it in that.
Good.
Thank you, Adam.
Wonderful, Adam.
Which most of our people have done.
They're really good.
Yes.
Beautiful.
Beautiful.
I don't know what it was.
I mean, it probably was.
Like, I don't know how safe that might have been.
There was an internal memo he wrote eight months ago.
I don't know what they did on that.
I don't know, but I think it might have been.
What the hell is that?
I don't know.
You know, I was thinking about
Well, I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
He never mentioned a crowd figure.
They have done this before.
They have done this before.
They have done this before.
They have done this before.
They have done this before.
They have done this before.
They have done this before.
I was wondering what the hell is going on with the, uh, with the, uh, with the other kill packers?
I thought it was Paul.
Where, how, where, where, where, where, where, where, where.
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