Conversation 390-001

TapeTape 390StartThursday, November 2, 1972 at 12:04 PMEndThursday, November 2, 1972 at 12:16 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Kissinger, Henry A.;  Pappas, Thomas A.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On November 2, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, and Thomas A. Pappas met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 12:04 pm to 12:16 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 390-001 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 390-1

Date: November 2, 1972
Time: 12:04 pm- 12:16 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Henry A. Kissinger.

       Vietnam Negotiations
             -Press relations
                  -Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
                         -Marvin L. Kalb
                         -Walter L. Cronkite, Jr.
                         -Kissinger’s possible backgrounder
                               -Ronald Ziegler’s view
                               -Procedure
                                      -Quotations
            -Emissary to Nguyen Van Thieu
                  -Candidates
                         -John B. Connally
                               -[David] Kenneth Rush
                         -Ability to take instructions
                         -Hawkishness
                         -Democratic affiliation
                         -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                               -Letter Delivery
                         -Melvin R. Laird
                         -Toughness

Thomas A. Pappas talked with the President between 12:07 pm and 12:09 pm.

[Conversation No. 390-1A]

[See Conversation No. 32-148]

[End of telephone conversation]

       Vietnam negotiations
                                -2-

               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                          (rev. Mar.-08)

                                                  Conversation No. 390-1 (cont’d)

-Connally as emissary to Thieu
      -Trip timing
             -Haig
                    -Letter delivery
             -North Vietnamese talks with Kissinger
 -Message to Theiu
      -Ellsworth F. Bunker
      -Gen. Creighton W. Abrams, Jr.
      -Public statements about the President
             -Trust, confidence
                    -Possible formal protest
                          -Bunker
                    -Choice
      -Haig’s role
             -Settlement agreement
             -Letter delivery
                    -Timing
-Connally as US emissary to Thieu
      -Trip
             -Ultimatum
             -Announcement
                    -Leak
      -Xuan Thuy statement
      -“Message to Garcia”
-Xuan Thuy statement
      -Settlement agreement
-Timing
      -1972 election
             -Announcement
 -US bombing
      -Effect
      -Timing
      -Northern South Vietnam
 -North Vietnamese
      -1972 election
 -Thieu's stance
      -Rationale
             -South Vietnam’s viability
             -Population, geography
                    -Vietcong [VC]
                                     -3-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                               (rev. Mar.-08)

                                                       Conversation No. 390-1 (cont’d)

     -North Vietnamese forces
           -Troop withdrawals
                 -Antiaircraft units
                 -Number of divisions
                       -325th and 711th divisions
                 -Announcement
                       -Timing
                              -Settlement agreement
           -Size of force in South Vietnam
                 -Reinforcements
                 -Laos, Cambodia
           -Thieu
     -Thieu
           -US option
           -Last conversation with Kissinger
                 -Tone
           -Public support in South Vietnam
                 -Press and media coverage
     -Peace terms
           -Publication
                 -Timing
                        -New York Times, Washington Post
           -Kissinger’s forthcoming backgrounder
           -The President’s May 8, 1972 proposals
           -Hubert H. Humphrey
                 -Statement
                 -Possible telephone call from Kissinger
                 -Statement
                        -News summary
                        -The President’s appreciation for bipartisanship
                        -Prospects for success in 1968 or 1969 compared to 1972
     -1972 election
           -Possible victory margin
     -Opponents’ complaints
           -Peace terms
                 -Quality
                        -Polls

The President’s schedule
     -Kissinger’s schedule
                                             -4-

                               NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                       (rev. Mar.-08)

                                                            Conversation No. 390-1 (cont’d)

                    -Health
                    -Trip to California
                    -Campaign trips
                          -Duration
                          -California
                          -North Carolina
                          -New Mexico
                          -Chicago
                          -Oklahoma City
                    -Ziegler's statement
                          -Vietnam

Kissinger left at 12:16 p.m.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

I thought I might have to send you back down a little bit more closely.
I can't get away with it for three times now.
No, I know.
But I'd hold it with me.
I'd hold it with me.
The whole room.
But honestly, I would have to hold it on to the dark for good.
This is what I know.
This is what I'm thinking.
So she thinks if I tell her I'm not going to get any other tickets, uh, I can still go back away and she'll ask me whether to do a smokey.
I think you're right, though, for them all.
I think she's been doing it so well.
And, uh, she'll do it without a quotation, but without a quotation.
And she'll say, man, I'm sorry.
And I'll say, I've done some thinking and development about, uh, who ought to go out there and, um, come.
I think you're the next.
No, I thought that you... No, that's not it.
The reason, the reason I, let me say that I'm convinced that we can do this, is we don't have anybody in the government that I trust enough.
I mean, it's the second possible brush to prove my knowledge.
How will they construct it?
I mean, we don't.
We need a man who's true to what we're going to need.
We don't need a television hall.
We don't need a Democrat.
He has no political action in mind.
I mean, in terms of, somebody's got to go out there and put down a month to pay him for it.
Well, I thought what it would be the next week would be for Hayes to go bring in a letter from you, and then Conway could go and let me have the next round of negotiations to see that that would be.
And they did it now, and it was perfect.
You can't really put anybody else in this league, in this kind of thing, because he's a strong kind of person.
He will have no action, right?
Larry, first of all, Larry played us on the end.
And the comedy we showed, I hope the building is going to be good.
And he also, you know, he's very, very confident.
Hello?
Tom, I want you to know that my wife just thought we put on a great dinner.
She said it was one of the best rallies they ever had.
And I said, well, that's what I expected from you.
You said it was an honorable show, but right on the heart of an involvement.
Yeah.
And as part of those, as part of those, I figured I'd stay off too much, you know.
Yeah.
It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.
They were just nasty looking people.
Burned cars and flash cars.
Fine, fine, fine.
We're just fine.
How are you feeling?
Fine.
Well, we've got four more days.
You keep riding.
Thank you.
I know.
I know you do.
Bye, Tom.
Thank you.
What I think is next week's date is just going to happen on that day.
Is it?
Because I know we have nothing to do with it.
Then, after my next job, there's no reason for me to say we have a date.
Is there anything that you can do?
Is there anything that you can do?
Is there anything that you can do?
Is there anything that you can do?
Is there anything that you can do?
Is there anything that you can do?
And, uh, and I thought that that was good, and I didn't want to go off the line that you had said that the outcome of it was good.
Yeah.
But, uh, well, it's a strange, strange thing.
It is a fine analysis that it is, but it's a strange thing.
Of course, the passion has no choice, but the crisis is choice that we have.
I think you,
And then I think we just have to accommodate it.
We won't mention it to anybody else.
I don't want to be a challenge.
Well, if you want to hear again today, I already have a message for Garcia.
I want to make sure that anyone out there who's in contact with us, whether it's a major or minor moment, whether it's the United States, the United States, the United States, and each time and so forth, I would take what they may have before and how to do it.
that makes how they made it through the country, yes.
Is it true?
Yes, I think so.
Actually, I think it's incredible what I've seen in those folks.
I think the better part of it would be if some were announced and they played that game and had the best of all moments.
You can work it out.
... ... ... ... ... ...
And then I thought the next Wednesday, it would be just, uh, uh, in common, not so today, I don't know, actually, but after the election, all of a sudden, I'll get back.
I'll be okay.
I'm not worried about it at all.
I guarantee that within two weeks of the election, I'm going to have it up and tested.
The process will be, uh,
against you, and that's the whole point of Jews are convinced.
And everybody else is convinced.
It's softly a contract, a viable contract, when you see it.
It's a pressure point, but it's part of the population.
It's an argument that we see, and that's where it brings you back into the moment.
So that's how it is.
The issue will have good hope if I get some of their forces out.
They've already withdrawn in the last week.
They've had the exact opposite of what we need.
And our intention is that we withdraw the 326th Division of the Government of the United States.
I guarantee, by the time the agreement is made, three or four divisions will have left.
And we didn't say that.
But the order we can make, and we shouldn't make, before the agreement is signed,
So what would be left there would be about $100,000 in support.
That's the last sentence for me.
That's $100,000 against the mayor, against the governor of Michigan.
And no right to reinforce, no right to replace.
Of course, I would love to have everybody to be part of the board of directors.
Of course.
It didn't say he was doing that sound then, I could understand.
But what about the song?
He first played that.
And it used to be that right now, the great majority of the songs are on that.
and I keep going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
Ten days ago, Mr. President, if you had said that you would stay an office in the Senate, that would exactly be a trap decision.
If you had put out the peace terms, which we've seen in the highest proposals, this would be your time in Washington.
I'm going to point out tomorrow.
And that's what comes through.
If I didn't manage to be there, I would tell them to pack this bag out.
So that would be, like, uh, effective.
But it shows that anyway, if I'm 60 percent, you wouldn't have to be 70.
I mean, it would help us to identify ourselves with the values of our decisions.
The decisions now, because the terms are better than most of the decisions I've ever done.
I understand.
Bullshit.
Bullshit.
But they all want that, I think, to be true.
They don't really know what to attack them.
They decide that after most of the decisions.
There's one.
They say there's one.
They have to be able to prove
Well, I mean, you're feeling all right, aren't you?
You're going with me to California, aren't you?
Yes, but I think that's important.
I wondered if you might even consider .
Oh, wait a minute.
The telephonic, you'll see one day.
You'll see North Carolina and New Mexico.
But tomorrow, you'll just stay here.
You'll be here.
But I'll be sure that you knew.
Alive.