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Conversation 390-012

TapeTape 390StartThursday, November 2, 1972 at 5:12 PMEndThursday, November 2, 1972 at 5:30 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.;  White House operator;  Nixon, Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan);  Nixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.;  White House operator;  Nixon, Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan)Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building
AudioNARA Description

On November 2, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, White House operator, and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:12 pm to 5:30 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 390-012 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 390-12

Date: November 2, 1972
Time: 5:12 pm - 5:30 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Charles W. Colson.

       1972 campaign
            -Hecklers in Boston
                 -Response
                        -Press relations
                               -Ronald L. Ziegler
                               -Double standard
                               -Violence
                               -Deprivation of speaker's rights
                        -Unknown person
                               -Colson’s conversation with George Gordon [?]
                               -Ziegler
                               -Robert J. Dole
                               -Herbert G. Klein
                 -Media and press coverage
                        -Boston
                        -Nassau rally
                        -Liberty Island
                        -San Francisco
                        -Liberty Island
                        -Washington Post and New York Times
                              -George S. McGovern
                 -Public reaction
                        -Colson’s recent conversation with John F. Collins
                               -Cab driver’s view
                               -Boston Herald Traveler, Boston Globe
                                     -Bostonians’ view of Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
                                     -Apology
                 -Reaction of McGovern supporters
                 -McGovern’s response
                        -Television [TV] interview
                        -Washington Post
                                        - 10 -

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                  (rev. Mar.-08)

                                                       Conversation No. 390-12 (cont’d)

               -McGovern’s campaign
                    -Possible “bomb”
               -Response
                    -Colson’s schedule
                          -Denver
                    -Dennis Davis [?]
                          -Speech to College Republicans
                                -Mrs. Nixon

*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

          -The President’s campaign
                -Error
                -Democratic convention
          -Minnesota
          -Wisconsin
          -South Dakota
          -West Virginia
          -Minnesota
          -Wisconsin
                -McGovern’s chances
          -Hecklers in Boston
                -Compared to Chicago
                -Public reaction
          -John B. Connally
                -Departure from Democratic Party
                -Henry A. Wallace, Harry S. Truman
                      -McGovern
                      -Franklin D. Roosevelt
                      -American people
                            -Goals in election
          -Hecklers in Boston
                -Media coverage
                      -Mrs. Nixon

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************
                                         - 11 -

                        NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                   (rev. Mar.-08)

                                                         Conversation No. 390-12 (cont’d)

                -Response
                     -The President’s forthcoming conversation with H.R. (“Bob”)
                     Haldeman
                -Media coverage
                     -Wires
                            -Accusations that McGovern encouraging demonstrations against
                            First Family and surrogates
                            -Ziegler quotation
                                  -Mrs. Nixon
                     -Klein
                     -Dole
                     -Agnew
                -Number
                -Impact
                     -Collins’ view
                            -TV advertisement
                                  -Mrs. Nixon
                -McGovern
                -Hecklers
                     -Jerry Rubin
                -McGovern
                     -Possible public statement

*****************************************************************
[Begin item reviewed under deed of gift]

          -Samuel Lubell interviews
               -New Majority
               -The President’s speech, “Look to the Future”
                    -Revisions
                    -Quotation
                    -Appeal for support
                            -Middle America
               -Support for the President
                    -New areas
                            -Jews
                    -Economic issues
                    -Taxes
                                             - 12 -

                             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                       (rev. Mar.-08)

                                                           Conversation No. 390-12 (cont’d)

                        -Democrats
                        -Losses
                               -New majority
                               -Republicans
                                    -Lack of enthusiasm
                                    -Liberals
                        -Italian-Americans
                        -Labor
                        -Catholics
            -Voting
                  -Candidates
                  -Maryland
                  -Illinois
                  -New York
                  -Ticket splitting
                         -Albert E. Sindlinger polls
                              -Projections
                              -Democrats
                              -Voting patterns
                                     -New York

The President talked with White House operator at an unknown time between 5:12 pm and 5:29
pm.

[Conversation No. 390-12A]

[See Conversation No. 32-151]

       1972 campaign
            -Connally
                 -Compared to the President

The President talked with Mrs. Nixon between 5:29 pm and 5:31 pm.

[Conversation No. 390-12B]

[See conversation No. 32-152]

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
****************************************************************
                                             - 13 -

                            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY

                                       (rev. Mar.-08)

                                                               Conversation No. 390-12 (cont’d)

Colson left at 5:30 pm.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Well, sir, there was a, there was a very strong need to do the, uh, little, uh, quite a bit of that.
He sure did.
He kind of did.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I just don't know.
It's quite true.
Of course it is.
I don't know any part of it.
That's right.
Well, that's correct.
Well, it is part of it.
This is why we're here.
This is why we're here.
This is what it is.
Well, I don't know if you can believe it or not, but you're probably sitting in this room and you're sleeping on the right side of the bed.
And Craig says, what the hell is this?
I think this is violence.
I think this is violence.
It's sharp-edged violence.
I would trust this to just run through me.
It's going to be just fine.
Well, I had a very hard day.
You know, at 8, I told you, you were going to regret it.
And I said, you know, I'm going to risk having to do it.
And I missed it.
See, but it is very hard.
I think the Boston episode, and I think the TV last night was great.
It got us a little attention.
It was great.
It was great.
My son said that he got no credit, for example, out of that accident.
We got cut out of it every hour.
We got cut out of it every hour.
And if you didn't let me out, they should drag me out.
Well, they did let me out.
Yeah, they dragged me out.
But that was today's post.
It was interesting.
Today's post, today's video conference, both of our students, the administration and the board of trustees,
.
.
.
He said, I need to make it out.
And I said, yes.
He said, no.
He said, well, yeah, I'm in here, man.
He said, it wasn't that often that those kids do this.
And I said, no.
And I said, it's a topic of conversation.
He said, no.
He said, my important thing to you is both.
I was going to talk to you.
I'm both.
One thing is that the program I would have to do with the greatest, the greatest, the people of Boston, the greatest president of the Supreme
... ... ... ...
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I had one in my house, and I was just sitting in the back, sitting in the yard with this guy, and I was like, what's up with the matter?
And I stayed, and I stayed, and I stayed, and I stayed, and I stayed, and I stayed, and I stayed, and I stayed, and I stayed, and I stayed, and I stayed, and I stayed, and I stayed,
.
.
.
.
Well, we made our entrance there.
I'm glad we got there.
We got to the residence.
It's the same company we had at the school.
We thought we were going to have a different kind of connection, but we would have had a chance in Minnesota.
So I'm from Wisconsin.
Nobody told me we went south.
Nobody told me we went west again.
We know we're going to get west again.
We know we're going to get west again.
We know we're going to get south again.
We can't mess with Minnesota.
Minnesota, yeah.
We can't mess with Minnesota.
We can't mess with Wisconsin.
I don't see any, I don't think, I don't know, like, I don't think I know.
I can't believe you.
I don't think I know.
I don't think I know.
I don't think I know.
I don't think I know.
I don't think I know.
.
.
.
.
.
But he was so quick.
He was there.
My brother said to him, we don't know if he's in the Algarve party.
He said, what's the Algarve party?
What was his party?
And I'm wondering.
I said, I don't know.
I said, I don't know.
I said, I don't know.
I said, I don't know.
I said, I don't know.
I said, I don't know.
I said, I don't know.
I said, I don't know.
Well, I was working through an old character development project.
And I thought, well, he said, well, my brother was his friend.
And he'd always try to call on him.
And then he said, well, he said, well, Frank knows what he's doing.
And I thought, well, Frank knows what he's doing.
And I thought, well, Frank knows what he's doing.
And I thought, well, Frank knows what he's doing.
And I thought, well, Frank knows what he's doing.
And then at the end, he gave that line to me, and he said, I have a question for you.
I have a question for you.
I have a question for you.
I have a question for you.
I said that he was pretty good, as good as I've ever seen him.
He said, well, I felt that.
He said, well, you know, he's not quite as good as I thought he was, but he said he had a hell of a career.
He's a great player.
I said, well, let's split mine up and call him right now.
He said, all right.
He said, well, let's call him now.
He said, well, I'm going to raise your hand.
He said, well, you know, we're going to close down on this weekend.
He said, well, you know, we're going to close down on this weekend.
He said, well, you know,
Great, great guy.
.
.
.
.
.
I don't see that.
I don't know how that happened.
I don't know why it happened.
I don't know why it happened.
but I kind of bore with it when I see someone who said that the first lady in the church was out to see the widow.
Specifically, I shouldn't have sent her to that person's place.
That's not a person in the widow.
And that's fine.
It's normal.
But the chair, when it comes to pay, the pay is certainly flat.
That's what the church is supposed to do.
That's a really silly thought to have done.
I just think people see 7,500 people out in front of us, and they think they're not there.
Yeah.
No, I got where people are.
And that's the kind of people you've got for it.
I asked a girl in school, did you ever want that radio?
I told her you didn't want it.
I just, that's, I don't even know.
I mean, that's the, that's what it is.
That's what it is.
the approach he was at that time.
The government, they just, you know, they just go with the way that it's supposed to be.
It's too much of a...
It's too much of a...
It's too much of a...
It's too much of a...
It's too much of a...
It's too much of a...
It's too much of a...
It's too much of a...
It's too much of a...
So Bill, as I said, is flying around, as it is.
Next to Mike, is what I was saying.
During, you know, well, the last flight.
And, uh, and he's flying by the way.
I'm like, he's done this interview, he's been flying by the way.
Uh, he gives his conclusion.
And he said, you know, he jumped up.
Well, he jumped up to the back.
.
.
.
.
.
um
I don't know if it's a basic question, but just to be clear, the Catholics and Catholics, the Catholics, the whole of America itself, and the rest of the world, they're not just the way they are in this world.
I'd like to point to one of these.
That special kind of food is done just in that country.
It's still in the country, but it's not in the business.
It's in some of the Jewish foods, which in fact is traditional food, right?
But there are areas where it's very easy to lose.
The vote has changed for a very long reason.
They're likely to produce less than ships.
It's economic.
They don't pay a little more price.
They're capturing that, and they will hire taxes.
That's very hard.
That's great.
They're likely to produce less than ships, along with many of those who are switching to a racial group.
Still, they will last for years.
I think, frankly, we can afford to give up some of the results.
See my point?
There's no majority, and I think we're going to lose some of them.
You know, let's face it.
We've got to face the fact that some of them will be to the round.
I don't have a lot of confidence, but they know it.
I think that's the first thing.
The next four years is going to be good.
It's going to shift.
I think those people are going to be able to move forward.
The way they want to move forward is we're going to be able to flourish.
That is what I'm saying.
The way I run a lot of polls, I think that there's quite a few jobs recognized in the world, and here I've heard that some of those candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates, candidates,
Now, this is what's really at the end of the day.
I think a lot of people really know that is that we are going to have to, we've got to do something.
And we're not going to have to do anything.
We're going to have to do something.
We're going to have to do something.
We're going to have to do something.
We're going to have to do something.
We're going to have to do something.
He doesn't show any dramatic shift at his point of time.
There's still anything to do about the dramatic shift, but the menstrual period, I feel with my sister, the delivery.
The delivery, the posture of the baby, is six by four.
Six by four.
That's higher than the other ten times we've done it.
But I mean, including the walkway, in the 60 miles, the 60 miles.
He said it's a ranch.
It's a lot of Democrats in it.
He said it's a ranch.
It's a lot of Democrats in it.
I know.
He doesn't have anything to do with it.
Mr. Jackson, please.
Well, I love that comment.
I know he's very much about his best.
There ain't nobody in his league.
Nobody.
No, that's true.
He's honest.
He knows where he is working.
He knows where he's working.
But I, he doesn't have anything to do with it.
The difference that I have and I have is someone who needs a way to recover.
I have a hard way to recover.
So I think it is a good thing.
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