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Conversation 392-001

TapeTape 392StartMonday, December 18, 1972 at 4:13 PMEndMonday, December 18, 1972 at 5:50 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob");  Ehrlichman, John D.;  Bull, Stephen B.;  [Unknown person(s)];  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building
AudioNARA Description

On December 18, 1972, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, John D. Ehrlichman, Stephen B. Bull, unknown person(s), and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 4:13 pm and 5:50 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 392-001 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 392-1

Date: December 18, 1972
Time: Unknown between 4:13 pm and 5:50 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and John D. Ehrlichman.

[This recording began while the meeting was in progress.]

       Press relations
             -Ronald L. Ziegler’s briefings
                    -Mistakes
                    -Henry A. Kissinger
                    -Herbert G. Klein
             -Kissinger’s briefings
                    -Preparation
                          -Ziegler
                                -Memoranda
                    -Points
             -Ziegler’s briefing
                    -Vietnam negotiations
                          -Saigon and Hanoi
                                -Prolonging talks and war
                                      -Kissinger’s briefing

       Second term reorganization
            -Julie Nixon Eisenhower

       Press relations
             -Unknown woman reporter
                    -Life
                    -Conversation with Ziegler [?]
                          -Washington Post
                               -Interviews
             -Helen Smith
             -Washington Post
                                       -2-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                 (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                         Conversation No 392-1 (cont’d)

           -The President’s conversation with Julie Nixon Eisenhower
                 -Philadelphia Bulletin
           -Press pool
                 -Washington Star
                 -White House social events
                       -Cabinet
                 -Timing
                       -Helen Thomas
                             -Press room
                                   -Washington Star
     -Ziegler

Second term reorganization
     -Julie Nixon Eisenhower
            -Job duties
                  -Thomas

Kissinger’s press relations
      -James B. (“Scotty”) Reston
            -Vietnam negotiations
                  -Denial of conversation
                         -Telephone
      -John F. Osborne
      -Nicholas P. Thimmesch
            -Executive
      -Kissinger’s sensitivity
            -Kissinger’s conversation with Ehrlichman
      -The President’s conversation with Kissinger
            -Enemies
                  -Respect
      -Kissinger’s sensitivity
            -Foreign policy
                  -The President’s trips to the People’s Republic of China [PRC] and the
                   Soviet Union
            -Personal terms

Vietnam negotiations
     -Charles W. Colson’s view
          -North Vietnam’s strategy
                                 -3-

      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                           (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                   Conversation No 392-1 (cont’d)

            -South Vietnam
                  -Cut off of US aid
            -Kissinger
                  -Vulnerability
                  -Settlement agreement
            -Nguyen Van Thieu
            -Kissinger
                  -Vulnerability
                  -Settlement agreement
                  -Resignation
-Kissinger
      -Mistakes
            -[Oriana Fallaci] interview
            -“Peace is at hand” comment
      -“Peace is at hand”
            -Hanoi’s publishing of peace terms
            -1972 election
                   -Difficulty with North Vietnam, Thieu
                   -Continuation of talks
                         -1972 election
                   -The President’s address, “Look to the Future”
      -Need for reassurance
            -The President’s conversation with Haldeman
      -Emotions
      -Foreign policy
            -First term
-The President’s credibility
      -Public opinion
            -Midwest, Far West, South
-Kissinger
      -Press relations
      -Public mail
            -Telegrams
                   -Cambodia
      -Press relations
      -Joseph C. Kraft, Peter Lisagor
            -Readership
                   -The President
                         -Law firm
                                       -4-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                 (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                      Conversation No 392-1 (cont’d)

            -Rowland Evans and Robert D. Novak
                  -Readership
                        -Congress
            -Reston, Kraft
            -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
                  -Departure
                  -Return
                        -Kissinger’s resignation
                  -Home
                        -Arlington
      -The President’s credibility
      -Kissinger’s credibility
            -Compared to George S. McGovern’s and Hanoi’s credibilities
      -Kissinger’s press relations
            -Newsweek
            -New York Times
            -US bombing of North Vietnam
                  -Kissinger’s telephone call to Ehrlichman
                        -Purpose
                               -White House staff unity
                        -Kissinger’s resignation
                  -Kissinger’s sensitivity

Kissinger
      -Intelligence
             -Compared to William P. Rogers
                  -Intelligence Quotients [IQs]
                  -Tactics, strategy
      -Nelson A. Rockefeller

Budget
     -New York Times article by Eileen Shanahan
          -Spending limitation
                -Congressional relations
                      -Plan of Allen J. Ellender
                             -Vote
     -Congressional relations
          -Reform
                -Credit
                                               -5-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                         (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                            Conversation No 392-1 (cont’d)

                         -Vote
             -The President’s credibility
             -1972 election
                   -Effect of campaign
             -Vietnam negotiations

       Saul Pett
             -Book [The Instant It Happened]
                   -Associated Press [AP]
             -Possible meeting with the President

Stephen B. Bull entered at an unknown time after 4:13 pm.

       The President’s schedule
            -Pett
            -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon

       Package
            -Delivery to Map Room
                  -Mrs. Nixon

       The President’s schedule

Bull left at an unknown time before 5:50 pm.

Ehrlichman talked with an unknown person at an unknown time between 4:13 pm and 5:50 pm.

[Conversation No. 392-1A]

       Package
            Delivery to Map Room
                 -Emil (“Bus”) Mosbacher, Jr. [?]

[End of telephone conversation]

       The President’s schedule
            -1972 election
            -California
                                              -6-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                        (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                               Conversation No 392-1 (cont’d)

       Vietnam negotiations
            -US bombing of North Vietnam
                 -Kissinger
                 -Congressional relations

       Kissinger’s press relations
             -Kissinger’s conversation with Ehrlichman
                   -White House staff unity
             -Fallaci interview
                   -Effect
                          -Compared to “Peace is at hand”
                   -Tape recording
                          -Haig

       Press relations
             -Experience
             -Trust
             -Osborne, Thimmesch
             -Los Angeles Times
             -AP
             -United Press International [UPI]
             -AP
             -Osborne
             -Hugh S. Sidey
             -John P. (“Jack”) Sutherland of US News and World Report
             -Frank Cormier
                    -Tape recorder
             -Washington Post
                    -Katharine L. Graham’s telephone call to Ehrlichman
                    -Press pool
                          -Exclusives
                    -White House social events
             -New York Times
             -Washington Post
             -Washington Star
             -Kansas City Star

The President talked with Kissinger at an unknown time between 4:13 pm and 5:50 pm.
                                                -7-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                        (rev. Aug.-08)

                                                         Conversation No 392-1 (cont’d)

[Conversation No. 392-1B]

       Kissinger’s schedule

       Vietnam War
            -US bombing of North Vietnam
                 -Report
                      -Timing

       Washington Special Action Group [WSAG]

[End of telephone conversation]

       Kissinger
             -Conversation with the President

Haldeman and Ehrlichman left at 5:50 pm.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

... ... ... ... ...
Thank you.
... ... ... ... ... ...
I said that we started with both Saigon, and I was concerned that neither Saigon or Canada can be by providing the peace negotiations, and neither can be by providing the deliverance.
Thank you.
... ... ... ...
But you don't even have the Washington Post.
You don't have the Washington Star President.
And every fool knows another fool.
This is not the government of Washington.
This is the government of America.
It's just not the government of America.
And they are as well.
And traditionally, the Washington Post covers the social media.
So it should make the point that it's been traditionally happening in its own social events that they have been attending.
So it's correct.
This has been a whole different approach.
Uh, to all this, it's just a good conversion coverage.
Couldn't make it close to where it was ahead of time.
They, uh, they do want to see the health of this girl.
Of course, she's got some problems.
She's got a germ.
She can't even have it.
You know, she's got a little, she's got a, she's got a, she's got a, she's got a, she's got a, she's got a, she's got a, she's got a, she's got a, she's got a, she's got a,
... ... ... ... ...
And she gets back to him.
She goes up to him, and she brought him back with her.
And we brought him back.
... ... ... ... ... ...
Thank you.
I'm sorry he came out and shot me.
I'm sorry.
You know, we're all here.
I don't ever hate that.
I'm not going to tell you.
I hate all these people that I've met.
I don't know.
I don't consider the press a horrible thing.
It's a horrible thing.
It's not good enough.
But there are some that are good at doing that.
They're destroyed.
And they're not destroyed.
You don't do the knife.
That's why you don't see a husband.
And that's why you don't see a brother.
And that's why you lose your chance for an ass.
But there are the lessons.
You can do a half-ass sometimes.
I'm very careful sometimes.
He was carrying, he was carrying, he was carrying, he was carrying, he was carrying, he was carrying.
You can see it now.
It's a big question, pushing it up and down.
You can see it either way.
Either way, it's a bit of a stretch.
You try to do it in the eye.
But either way, you're going to see it all the time.
It's impressive.
It's like, you know, it's a bad dream.
Or if you destroy it.
Or if on the other hand, he's unable to make it.
I don't know.
I don't know.
We're out of take-back.
But at that time, at that time, he was a strong man.
At that time, he knew that he was being a hero.
He knew he was being a hero.
At that time, you see, what we had, we had to bring it up in the United States.
That was why it was very hard for me to understand what he was saying.
And that's why I put it back on my ears.
You know, because she grabbed it.
And that's how I did it.
That's how I did it.
That's how I did it.
That's how I did it.
The truth.
The truth.
How do you find that out?
Well, I said, you know, this year, once you get out around the country, you're the one that people want to talk about.
They want to know all about you.
And you're going to be respected.
And you get out in the west, in the far west, in the south.
And if you're working hard and trying to do something here, there's nothing I can do to help you.
There's nothing I can do to help you.
But everybody does that job.
I wrote a question that was really good.
He said he had 25 paragraphs.
He counts as many.
I've got 25 paragraphs, so it's not as many as I have on the business.
But he said, you know, it's all right.
It's all right.
It's all right.
It's all right.
But that's the rest.
You know, what I want to do, you can't worry about it.
Whatever it is, you can't worry about it at all.
Sure, you've got to agree that sometimes they have an idea that's good.
They arrest them.
It's a very wonderful, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,
They were right before, from years ago.
I'm sure that now, much of their children, they know how to do a show.
They're going to have to go back right to the Congress, 90% of the time, sure.
They're right to not be straight.
But that's what they're ready to try.
They're trying to do the best you can do with that.
And from the moment that you rise, you let them think that they're great, that you've been made into a part of this government.
And they won't hardly do that.
They're hardly a part of that.
That's your fault.
Your fault.
That's your fault.
That's your fault.
That's your fault.
That's your fault.
That's your fault.
That's your fault.
That's your fault.
That's your fault.
That's your fault.
That's your fault.
They had a nice house out there on the left, and a house in the middle of the road.
And that was a nice thing to do, to sit around and play at.
We had a famous tribe in the desert.
They all lived on deserts, and the fighters, the strength of the U.S. was really pretty marvelous.
... ... ... ...
Anticipation.
Well, he told me, I don't know what he's going to do.
He doesn't know because he's a Christian.
And there's a lot of times that some people are just screaming, complaining, losing their time.
Inevitably, what the Christ did in the faithful, and there's going to be more.
There's going to be more than just robbing and loitering.
But what they haven't done, they haven't done.
The purpose of this call was to make sure the White House met with all standing children
But all of them triggered a lot of, you know, I can't get out of it at all, but personally, it's been quite a bit.
They do make it a problem, which has a result, and I don't know.
But again, he has an artistry, but at least in there, he's a certified John.
John Christian Perry, I believe, is around here, so he's...
He says, I would imagine highlighting the limits of the IQ of those who fall in the midst of depression.
Brian is a very honest and very, very, very, very smart guy.
He's smarter than each of you.
But the difference in terms of, frankly, everything is profound, and he has a profound understanding of it.
We're living in a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,
Everybody had to go into something.
Birds and other things.
They were far off.
They were in the system.
That's not what we were going to stop.
We were going to go.
All we had to do was push.
All we had to do was push.
All we had to do was not stretch.
That was the last thing we could do.
Why was it that much?
Whatever it is.
We were stretching.
We were stretching.
We were stretching.
We were stretching.
We were stretching.
.
.
.
.
.
.
In any event, you are getting measures or credits for forcing the immigration reform to happen in your state.
Goodbye.
They can't go for it.
They can't go against it.
So it's going to be a big deal.
Thank you.
... ... ... ...
Thank you.
I've got to run back, right?
Good.
Any questions?
Any other questions?
Thank you.
Instead of the movie, I'll run it for the movie.
If you remember me, thank you.
Oh, sure.
But I think it's good to have that.
That's a good one.
Well, you're going to cut loose as much as you can, Mr. Archibald.
Actually, I don't have to keep my...
I have to keep my... Not about that, but...
I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
He said, did she make a ticket for you?
And I said, yes.
He said, I didn't say that.
He said, she's better than me.
Yeah.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
that I didn't say, like, you know, we did say, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
Thank you.
Thank you.
AAP, where are you?
Yeah, those are all worth nothing.
You may have a, you know, 25%, 30% rate.
You can't.
You've got to write it later when you want to write it again.
You've got to, I've heard, you've got to write it again.
You've got to write it very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,
You know you're
I had a phone call last night with Mrs. Grant.
I picked up my phone and there she was.
She said, I love you so much.
She said, you know what was terrifying?
I said, okay.
I just want to say I love you so much.
I love you so much.
And I can't wait to talk to you in front of the White House.
I don't know if they got the full report, but they should be able to do this.
I haven't actually received it.
As a matter of fact, there's a vibration that we can't settle.
It's not a big issue.
We can select a significant group of three million, you know, that are hired by the government.
They have a special right to do it.
You know, it's the same thing.
It's the same way.
It's the same as doing it in New York.
I've heard it before.
It's the same.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Mr. President,
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