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Conversation 395-013

TapeTape 395StartWednesday, January 10, 1973 at 4:11 PMEndWednesday, January 10, 1973 at 4:30 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob")Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building
AI Summary

President Nixon and H.R. Haldeman met to coordinate staffing decisions for the second-term administration and address controversial federal hiring quotas. Nixon expressed strong opposition to existing executive orders mandating university hiring quotas, directing that they be changed to avoid alienating academic and public opinion. Additionally, the pair reviewed personnel placements for various agencies, including the Justice Department and the Office of Emergency Preparedness, while briefly touching on the status of Vietnam peace negotiations.

White House reorganizationHiring quotasCivil rightsExecutive ordersPersonnel appointmentsVietnam peace negotiations
AudioNARA Description

On January 10, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 4:11 pm and 4:30 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 395-013 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 395-13

Date: January 10, 1973
Time: Unknown between 4:11 pm and 4:30 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.
                                       -8-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                 (rev. Dec.-09)

                                                   Conversation No. 395-13 (cont’d)

The President's schedule
     -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
     -John D. Ehrlichman
           -Haldeman's call

Second term reorganization
     -Justice Department
            -Kenneth R. Cole, Jr. [?]
            -James O. Eastland
            -J. Stanley Pottinger
                   -The President's acquaintance

Quotas
     -Controversy
     -Civil rights community
     -Universities
           -Professors
                  -Opposition
           -Executive Order
                  -The President’s opposition
                  -University of California
                        -Hiring
                        -Blacks
                  -Ehrlichman’s recommendation
                        -Pottinger
                  -Change
                  -Origin
                        -1972 campaign
                        -The President’s role

Second term reorganization
     -Department of Health, Education and Welfare [HEW]
           -Elliot L. Richardson
           -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger

Vietnam settlement
     -State Department
     -Prospects
     -Henry A. Kissinger’s schedule
                                    -9-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               (rev. Dec.-09)

                                                      Conversation No. 395-13 (cont’d)

          -Trip to Hanoi
          -Meeting with the President at Camp David
     -Announcement
          -1973 Inauguration
          -Benefits
          -Haig
          -Kissinger’s attendance
     -Agreement
          -Initialing
                 -Kissinger
          -Announcement by the President
                 -Timing

Second-term reorganization
     -Ehrlichman's concerns
     -Donald A. Webster
     -Lewis Engman
     -Webster
           -Job offers
                 -Justice Department
                 -Office of Emergency Preparedness [OEP]
           -Experience
           -Charles W. Colson
           -Possible jobs
                 -Central Intelligence Agency [CIA]
                 -OEP
                 -Colson
     -Engman
           -Ehrlichman
           -Age
           -Civil rights position
                 -Pottinger

Vietnam settlement
     -Saigon
     -Nguyen Van Thieu [?]

Second term reorganization
     -Haldeman's forthcoming talk with Colson
     -Webster
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                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                        (rev. Dec.-09)

                                                             Conversation No. 395-13 (cont’d)

                   -OEP
                          -National Security Council [NSC]
                          -Lyndon B. Johnson
                          -Price Daniel
                                -Political work

Haldeman left at an unknown time before 4:30 pm.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

I was on his way out and I wanted to talk to him.
I talked to him.
He said about the appointment.
Yup.
Especially the justice one, because he feels it.
Well, let him sit down and talk to him.
He can't do that.
I can.
Because he had to do it today.
He had to set up.
He's concerned about, because he's been asking about justice combinations in a package with the rest of the room.
The right number is not quite as important in my study.
I don't know if you know what I'm talking about.
I just, you know, I want to do it.
I just don't wait and see.
But there's no argument about it.
You know, I don't, I'm not arguing.
I don't want to ask.
I've seen it a couple of times.
I've seen a couple of interesting questions.
I've seen it a couple of times.
I've seen it a couple of times.
I've seen it a couple of times.
I've seen it a couple of times.
He said, sure, you'll send a signal to about 200 professors.
It's not the civil rights field that's upset.
It's not our races.
It's only the academics.
And they're upset because of this quarter of the universities which we're driving against.
I know, but I'm against it.
I mean, I don't know why we are campaigning for such a system.
I don't care.
I just thought they were making a name for the University of California.
It's true about it.
It's kind of sick there.
They have to hire all the black secretaries this year, I've heard.
Well, now, that order is going to be changed.
John changed the order.
At John's point, he said, if you want to send the right signal, change the executive order.
Don't keep Pops here.
I don't know if Pops here is a guy who was carrying out an order.
It's not going to happen.
Well, why don't you get a hold of John and tell him that I have the order changed?
I think that's going to be a highly, highly, highly big deal.
I don't know why in the hell we ever issued such an order.
That's one of the things that struck by when I was busy in the campaign.
But you see what it is.
And that's the reason.
I mean, six months ago, what I mean is that we would campaign for the real money.
Why is it the kind of thing where I have to defend myself for whatever reason?
I don't even know whether it's some order to...
I would never sign a court opinion if I'd ever known I was signing.
See?
I've never got a hold of the court.
I've never had one.
Let's get off before they kick.
Let's see if we can.
If you're lying to me...
I'm not going to put it on there.
And it's a good thing.
And it's a good thing.
We've got a pretty good America.
We've got a pretty good America.
We've got a pretty good America.
That's fine.
You can go to Hannah.
I asked her if I could give one back.
You can give a follow-up, are you?
A follow-up, are you?
The ones I gave him, I can't think of.
I have a purchase.
$2.
That's correct.
Apparently, that's good.
I don't know.
You know, the way it is, you know, you don't see it, but it doesn't get registered in your name.
Well, instead of fighting the White House, it's not just discipline.
It's not the police.
Well, that still isn't going to happen.
Yeah.
I don't know if that's...
If it was any good, we'd have to resolve it more than that.
I don't know if it was for aid, but we'll have to see.
More than any aid?
An aid?
Yeah.
I don't see any reason for having to be here.
The whole point is, the point is that there's a difference between what was really wrong.
Before I was saying this,
.
.
.
Look, I don't want John to be worried about anything.
Let me stay on the web street.
uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
The more I think about it, I think we could do much to the old people.
I know this isn't a topic, but it's a good one.
Because as I recall, he had a similar experience.
And I think that's a good question for him.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
But I remember this one time, I guess it was just a question of the day.
I don't know if that's a good answer.
But we could see this was the final shot.
And I said, let me tell you this, let me tell you this, let me tell you this, let me tell you this,
Anybody that I put in that position, they will destroy it.
You know, it's a case of success.
I think I've got to find my successor.
I've got to work.
You know, I've got to work.
And of course, I've got to work.
I've got to work.
I've got to work.
I've got to work.
I've got to work.
.
.
.
.
.
Thank you.
You know, I think that's really something.
I guess it's really just a question.
You know, you said, what do you call it?
Don't you know what you call it?
I just the National Security Council job.
And I just think that I think you could make me at the White House, basically.
But I'm also going to have to control the fact that Johnson's going to have a lot of political stress.
That's what we have to deal with.
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