Conversation 395-025

TapeTape 395StartFriday, January 12, 1973 at 9:23 AMEndFriday, January 12, 1973 at 10:30 AMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Ziegler, Ronald L.;  Haldeman, H. R. ("Bob");  Woods, Rose MaryRecording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On January 12, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Ronald L. Ziegler, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, and Rose Mary Woods met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 9:23 am and 10:30 am. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 395-025 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 395-25

Date: January 12, 1973
Time: Unknown between 9:23 am and 10:30 am
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Ronald L. Ziegler and H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman.

       Haldeman

       Henry A. Kissinger

       White House
            -US Army
            -West Wing
            -East Wing staff

       National Football League [NFL]

       The President's schedule
            -Kissinger
            -Florida
            -Timing
            -Kissinger's schedule
                  -Effect
            -Meetings
            -Return from Florida
            -Peoples Republic of China [PRC] acrobats
                  -Press coverage
            -Kissinger
                  -House in Florida
            -Effect of others' schedules
                  -Kissinger
                  -Cabinet
                  -William P. Rogers
                  -Press

       Vietnam settlement
            -Announcements
                                      -27-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                (rev. Dec.-09)

                                                      Conversation No. 395-25 (cont’d)

           -Conversation with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
           -Bombing halt
           -Timing
           -Haig trip
     -Briefings
           -Col. Richard T. Kennedy
           -Haig
           -Kennedy
                 -Content of agreement
                 -Signing
                 -Timing
                 -Kissinger’s meeting with the President
                 -Rogers
                 -Laird
           -Kissinger
                 -Briefing for Charles H. Percy
                 -Rogers
     -Announcements
           -Bombing halt
           -Haig’s trip
                 -Saigon
           -The President’s decision
           -Further public statements

The President's schedule in Florida
     -Telephone calls
           -Rogers
           -Laird
           -Ziegler’s response
           -Access to the President
           -Spiro T. Agnew
     -Haig
           -Schedule

Vietnam settlement
     -Announcement
           -Ellsworth F. Bunker
           -Content
           -Timing
           -Kennedy
                                 -28-

      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                            (rev. Dec.-09)

                                                  Conversation No. 395-25 (cont’d)

      -Ziegler
      -1973 Inauguration
      -Congress
      -Content
             -Haig’s schedule
             -Kissinger’s trip to Paris
             -The President’s briefing for Congress
      -Kissinger
      -Nguyen Van Thieu
      -Content
             -Kissinger’s trip to Paris
                   -Purpose
             -Questions
             -Thieu’s actions
             -Final agreement
                   -Kissinger
      -Thieu’s actions
             -Effect on announcement
             -Timing
      -Bunker
      -Thieu
             -Kissinger
             -Signing
             -North Vietnamese
      -Announcement
             -Ziegler
-Press relations
      -Government of South Vietnam
      -Cease-fire
      -Prisoners of War [POWs]
      -Congress
-Thieu’s response
-The President’s response
-Timing
-Report to Congress
-Image of the administration
-Announcement
      -Timing
      -1973 Inauguration
      -New York Times, Washington Post
                                      -29-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                  (rev. Dec.-09)

                                                   Conversation No. 395-25 (cont’d)

     -Press relations
            -Compared to Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty Agreement [SALT]
            -Compared to 1972 Moscow Summit
            -John V. Scali
            -Hugh S. Sidey [?]
            -[Arnold] Eric Sevareid
            -Robert Pierpoint
            -John W. Chancellor
            -Murrey Marder
            -James B. (“Scotty”) Reston
            -Ziegler's expectations
            -Past experience
            -Scali
            -Response to bombing
                  -Chancellor
                  -Howard K. Smith
                  -Richard Wilson
                  -Story on bombing halt
                        -Scali, Wilson
           -White House
           -Signals

The President's schedule
     -Florida Trip
     -Ziegler's statement
           -Work on 1973 Inauguration
           -State of the Union
           -Budget
           -Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger
           -The President’s birthday

Vietnam settlement
     -Paris talks
           -Kissinger
     -Thieu [?]
     -Congress [?]
     -Bombing
           -Public opinion
                  -Right-wing
                  -Polls
                                                -30-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                          (rev. Dec.-09)

                                                              Conversation No. 395-25 (cont’d)

             -Press relations
                   -The President's briefing of Congressional leaders
                   -Agreement
                          -Public statement
                                -The President's objective
                                -Congress

       Congressional relations
            -George P. Shultz
            -Responsibility
            -Wage and price controls
            -Corporation
            -Shultz

Ziegler left at 10:00 am.

       Press relations
             -Need for staff members' secrecy
                    -Wives, children, secretaries, aids
             -Stephen B. Bull
             -Alexander P. Butterfield
             -Leaks
             -White House staff [?]
                    -Concern

       Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI]
            -L. Patrick Gray [?]
            -Cartha Deloach
            -Director
                  -J. Edgar Hoover
                  -The President's term
                         -Survival
                  -Requirements
                  -Mitchell
                  -Political affiliation
                  -Gray
                  -Requirements
                  -Mitchell, John B. Connally
            -Dwayne Andreas
            -Lyndon B. Johnson
                                          -31-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. Dec.-09)

                                                          Conversation No. 395-25 (cont’d)

            -Blackmail
            -Deloach
                 -Bugging
            -Mitchell

      Watergate
           -John J. Sirica
                  -Sentencing
                  -Bail for burglars
                        -Mitchell's Response
           -E. Howard Hunt
                  -Conduct
                  -Implication of others
           -Sirica
                  -Instructions to grand jury
                  -Evidence at trail
           -Democratic Party National headquarters
           -1972 campaign
           -Justice Department
                  -American Bar Association [?]
                  -Responsibilities

      Second term reorganization
           -Red Cross
           -Postal Rate Commission
                 -Gordon L. Allott
           -1972 campaign
                 -George S. McGovern
           -Jack Miller

The President talked with Rose Mary Woods[?] at an unknown time between 10:00 am and
10:30 am.

[Conversation No. 395-25A]

      The President's schedule
           -Meeting with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman

      Item to be delivered
                                             -32-

                       NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. Dec.-09)

                                                            Conversation No. 395-25 (cont’d)

*******************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

       Ties
              -Courier

[End of telephone conversation]

              -Size
              -Style

[End of segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*******************************************************************

       The President's schedule

       Gift calendar
             -Purpose
             -Press
             -Message

The President left at an unknown time before 10:30 am.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

What he was saying is that, uh, on the, is that, uh, that, uh, that, uh, General Haig will be returning on, uh, on the front.
don't blame them on something that went into the video.
And we'll refer to the president.
Dr. Fisher will be returning to Paris on the 23rd to continue the negotiations on several of the sections.
Thank you for your time.
Why don't you return to Paris?
The president's been on his report for a long time.
He's got a serious problem.
Do you have a question?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, I wouldn't say that.
Don't say that about me.
we can say that, uh, complete negotiations on some of the, uh, complete negotiations on some of the technical details of the hearing.
Does this mean that this is the last meeting, gentlemen?
It depends on what the details are.
It depends on the attitude of the other side.
You got any questions?
Thank you.
But Henry was going back to make the grave this week, which is wrong, another thing.
He would go back and also have his line on it, which is a really long summary of it.
But you see what I mean, Kyle?
Sure, I think that answers Henry's problem.
It answers the problem.
And it's going to be even if you agree to go.
I'm not going to go.
I'm just going to go.
Until this does that, that is an issue.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Well, of course.
Of course, if he does, he wants to cut back.
That's what's going to happen.
That's what's going to happen.
If you want to make a joint announcement on the 18th, then they make a joint announcement.
You understand?
And I don't make an announcement on the 18th on the 13th.
I cannot make an announcement on the 18th on the 13th and then go on on the 23rd.
I don't know.
That's what you should do.
That's what you should do.
You should only do an academic joint announcement after the next edition.
There's one piece.
They're all set.
I mean, there's hundreds, if not thousands, of letters in this book.
It's a huge piece.
So you see, it says, so, in two, three years, we will very much want to have it.
We need to have it.
We need to have it.
But before Henry goes to the third science, we've got that one piece.
Of course, that's what he owes you.
That's what he's going to be asking you.
What happened then?
He said, even that is handled physically.
I said, even that?
He goes on and on.
He doesn't drink enough that you can go out.
.
.
.
.
.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I don't understand.
Many of them go wrong at this point.
Many of them go wrong, and after the third is perhaps they can come back.
uh, because that is kind of the purpose of it, so it's not that hard to get, uh, to the country, trying to bring a problem on the earth, and you, yourself, and the society, and then reverse it to the government, so they don't, or they just, uh, immediately, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know,
... ... ... ... ... ... ...
It's not what it is, sir.
It's not what it is, sir.
But I suppose it is, sir.
You're still there, aren't you?
We did it just for the sake of getting up to the wire.
I'm glad you're still here.
You're being a basis.
but if you come next to a place that you're not going to be able to do that, nothing should be done.
You're definitely not going to be able to do that.
You're definitely not going to be able to do that.
You're definitely not going to be able to do that.
But don't worry.
You're not going to be able to do that.
These problems and threats are often so strong
All right.
All right.
All right.
Thank you.
They don't want them to come off.
They don't want them to come off.
And they wish against both of us to come off.
They don't want to.
His last call, his last assignment.
Okay, they're incredibly good for Moscow, so we've learned a little bit about them here, but...
Okay, if that's the motivation, then they've got to leave this part.
He's come up right now and said he's got a great group of members.
First of all, because he knows that's the one that's going to have school.
And secondly, because it's listening on the record for this group to do it.
He is so generous about it.
Ron, you're welcome on the question.
I don't know.
And another guy in the field where he's going.
He's going to talk about how long he's going to be there.
Apparently he's going to.
I think that he's going to.
I think that he's going to.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
uh... uh... uh...
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
They've got to take it out and put it up.
They've got to take it out and put it up.
They've got to take it out and put it up.
They've got to take it out and put it up.
They've got to take it out and put it up.
They've got to take it out and put it up.
They've got to take it out and put it up.
... ... ... ... ...
.
.
.
.
Thank you.
I personally don't think that's what we should be doing.
I think that's what we should be doing.
I don't think that's what we should be doing.
I don't think that's what we should be doing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
.
.
.
.
.
Now, the plan that told me to go was at the center.
And I was going to say to him, he was going along.
I was saying to him, what's he going there for?
He was waiting for me to talk to him.
I don't know.
I don't want to do that.
But I also want to be certain that there is a place that I can ask for help.
So that's the way it's going to work.
And then at the end of the day, I'm going to hold you in the moment.
And then I'm going to try to get your attention.
And then I'm going to try to get your attention.
And then I'm going to try to get your attention.
And then I'm going to try to get your attention.
... ... ...
You know that, don't you?
It's an irony.
It puts you out.
And it's funny.
It's a good thing.
It's a good thing.
It's a good thing.
It's a good thing.
It's a good thing.
It's a good thing.
It's a good thing.
It's a good thing.
I'm going to do something.
I'm going to do something.
I'm going to do something.
I'm going to do something.
I'm going to do something.
Everybody's ready to get outside, except the rabbit, you know, the mom, the daughter.
But even those parents, even though they can't go that way, if you push it up, the mom is going to say, just make the hole.
I don't think you're going to have no matter what.
They pray that we live in a better future, and they pray that we live in a better future.
They pray that we live in a better future.
They pray that we live in a better future.
They pray that we live in a better future.
I don't know if you've got that.
Okay.
Okay.
... ... ... ... ...
I'm very, very, very, very, very, very, very,
It is the same discussion.
The discussion in which we get paid is destroying the chance for achieving peace.
The effect is on us.
The effect is on us.
Therefore, if you hear this,
... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ...
Thank you.
Thank you.
And the responsibility.
Because the credit is down.
I didn't expect them to do it.
The way it surprised me, I'm saying, I didn't expect them to do it.
Dave Parkinson was not here at all.
He was just passing stuff.
He was just passing paint darts.
Whenever I was in here, I was straight past him.
I said, why are you looking for that?
He said, yesterday afternoon, he handed me a board.
I said, I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
But are you going, because it's not done yet, to get out and stand up?
You don't just stand here that you're important.
Let's get outside and get some support and some backing.
For a change?
For a change, yeah.
So you don't just support it in here.
You don't want to support it.
That's right.
I'm very concerned.
I'm very concerned.
I'm very concerned.
I'm very concerned.
All right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I said, are you?
I said, well, we're working on it.
I said, we're working on it.
I said, we're working on it.
I said, we're working on it.
I said, we're working on it.
I said, we're working on it.
I said, we're working on it.
I said, we're working on it.
I said, we're working on it.
You should tell your wife, nothing.
You should tell your kids, nothing.
You should tell everyone, nothing.
You should tell your secretary, nothing.
You should tell your aide, nothing.
Just kind of stay home and do a goddamn thing.
Alex doesn't know anything.
But you've got to write about what you can tell your wife and kids and other things that are sort of only the same stories after the fact.
That's the thing that you don't care if it gets out or you want it out.
It doesn't matter if it doesn't get out.
But it's interesting.
There's plenty of interesting things that are really helpful in the events of the series.
And it is very nice.
It's very useful, especially for your wife.
just because they aren't fully seen as efficient and concerned about what they can and can't say.
But whenever these boys come to me, they say, well, you just don't want to try that.
Well, you don't like this at all?
And then you're like,
Thank you.
Thank you.
I have come across a week of cedars that are pulled out in those streets, in those streets.
I've been well-tested now.
I know that it's a long day.
I know that I've been well-tested.
I think that he, I mean, quite frankly, here's a place where he's going to, where he's going to hold that job.
He's going to hold that job, having a life of life.
And at the end of our time, if we do not survive, he's going to die.
He might be dead, but we're all going to die one day.
But we didn't think the guy needed to go on.
I don't expect him to come.
My idea is that there's a whole bunch of people in there.
There's all the Larry and Donald and the rest of them.
That's one of the FBI guys.
That's one of the guys.
That's one of the records.
He's a woman.
He's a man.
He's a little old.
But, you see, John has been in the country.
He's been in the country for the last 20 years.
And he should have been.
Who's John?
That's it, though.
You're not going to get hurt.
Realistically, you know, we're replaced.
You're replaced by us.
And then our president, he is about to be here at the Capitol.
And the Republicans probably won't be here.
And he's got a chance to put the president together.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
I think that's it.
Thank you very much.
Thank you.
I hate the men that I walk through the crossroads of.
I don't know anybody else that's got to be so close to me.
I don't value it.
I hate, for example, the patient.
I don't like the person.
I don't like the person.
I hate the patient.
I don't like the person.
I don't like the person.
Special and common objections.
One point that I would like to say to the mayor, there's no problem with that.
I'm going to do what I can do.
I'm going to do the right thing.
Dwayne Anderson, I'm going to do something that's very good.
I'm going to do something that's very good.
I'm going to do something that's very good.
The other point is, I was going to get a minority, but I did it.
I was going to get a minority, but I did it.
... ... ... ... ... ... ...
Thank you.
What is it?
I'm going to scoop up a lot of it.
And as far as you know, it's one of the, uh, I don't know if you know, but I think, I don't know if you know, but I think, I don't know if you know, but I think, I don't know if you know,
realized, or suspected, if I'm not wrong, that he was thinking exactly what was happening, and he was sort of, you know, across the years, making it a little more difficult to take those things.
And so he's the one that made it as hard as possible.
So as we watched the fight, we started to take the lesson now.
And, uh, and on the run, uh, uh, the way he dealt with it,
... ... ... ... ...
Which, like John said, was all psychological.
It was calculated by everybody else out of the ballpark.
It was so much.
It was the rebound of the ballpark.
It was a nice ballpark.
Right?
Well, anyway, it was a good conversation.
We were talking about it.
It was a good conversation.
... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
Thank you very much.
uh... uh... uh... uh...
I was just a kid when I was in high school, and I was told about it, and I was like, here's something, here's one of those.
So I found that it was a favorite to me, and I was like, there it is.
There it is.
I helped them with that, and I said, I'm going to have somebody do it for me.
And I said, yeah, I'm going to do it for you.
And I said, yeah, I'm going to do it for you.
And I said, yeah, I'm going to do it for you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
.
.
.
.
.
Thank you.
... ... ... ... ...
Thank you.
Thank you.
First, he's a great person to be around.
He's been playing a lot.
He hasn't been in that camp yet, but he's a student there.
He's been a great friend of mine.
And I've known him for a long time.
What are you talking about?
Thank you for the interview.
Yes, sir.
He's a great person to be around.
He's a very nice person.
He's positive.
He's got a lot of stuff to say.
He's a great person to be around.
He's a great person to be around.
I don't know
I have a feeling that
.
.
.
.
Yup.
Just about finished.
But you know how to do this.
Why don't you bring it over there, I'll be serious for sure.
I need you to find a time to just...
Well, if they don't, I just brought down the courier, and I'll pick up the gun.
I only find I want to buy a couple of things.
Yeah, they don't make that much money.
All right, I'm going to bring all those places.
I'm going to buy a couple of letters.
All right.
I don't know.
Yes, sir.
Okay.
I wanted to ask you about .
put it back on your thousand days.
Thank you.
That was really a very nice gift that you could give to a viewer or an audience.
Which is a simple gift of your date book.
It would be a book like this.
It would have your signature on the side.
It would then have a calendar.
It would be very useful.
It would show the date, but then it would show the number of days remaining.
And rather than using the thousand days, use the 14.
Because the thousand days ties back to Canada, and we don't want to get back from this.
It starts January 20th, and then it goes through.
I wonder if we borrow one year.
I like the four years.
If you're going to go to publicity on it, why say that?
And then we were going to put a little note in for you on the first page that says, every day, each moment in history is a fleeting time, precious and unique.
The presidential term, which begins today, consists of 1,461 days.
No more, no less.
Each can be a day of strengthening, renewal, or a memory of history, and a definite convention of the American experience.
Fourteen hundred and sixty-one days are but a short interval before the stream of misery, but if we strive together, we will make the most of the challenge of the opportunity of each of these days' officers.
They can stand out as great days for America and great moments in the history of mankind.
That's good.
The only thing that I would add, and that's something that I've given several times to people,
Every day.
Every single day.
Don't let a day go by.
Don't let a day go by without doing something.
Don't let a day go by without doing something.
All of that is beautiful poetry, and it's good.
But I mean, let it every day come.
I just want to take my words and put that on there.
Somebody can figure it out.
That's the thing.
That's the person.
There's the day.
And every day comes.
There you are.
There you come.
Yeah.