Conversation 397-005

TapeTape 397StartFriday, January 19, 1973 at 9:35 AMEndFriday, January 19, 1973 at 10:55 AMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Price, Raymond K., Jr.;  Kissinger, Henry A.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On January 19, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Raymond K. Price, Jr., and Henry A. Kissinger met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 9:35 am to 10:55 am. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 397-005 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 397-5

Date: January 19, 1973
Time: 9:35 am - 10:55 am
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Raymond K. Price, Jr.

       President's Inaugural speech
             -Past accomplishments
                    -Peking, Moscow, Vietnam
             -Wording
                    -Revisions
             -Great powers' relations
             -Vietnam references
             -Bold initiatives
             -Vietnam
             -Wording
                    -New directions
             -Vietnam
             -Peking, Moscow, Vietnam
             -Saigon
             -New relationships
                    -People’s Republic of China [PRC]
                    -Soviet Union
             -Wording
                    -Development of new policies
             -Vietnam references
             -Foreign policy in general
                    -Change
             -Peking, Moscow
                                              -4-

                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                        (rev. Jan.-09)

                                                          Conversation No. 397-5 (cont’d)

             -Vietnam War
             -New initiatives
             -Great powers' relationships
             -1972 accomplishments
                   -Wording
                          -World War II
                   -Peking and Moscow trips
                          -New relationships
                          -Wording
             -Revisions
                   -Paternalism reference
                          -Wording
                               -Self help
                   -Style
                          -Simplicity
                   -Liberty reference
                          -Government references
                          -Wording

Henry A. Kissinger entered at 10:05 am.

       Kissinger's schedule
             -Paris
             -Meeting with Price

       President's Inaugural speech
             -Review of foreign policy portions
             -Wording
                    -Tone
                    -John F. Kennedy's Inaugural speech
             -Portions for Kissinger's review
                    -Domestic issues

       President's schedule
             -Meeting with Price

Price left at 10:12 am.

       Price's work
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           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                (rev. Jan.-09)

                                                    Conversation No. 397-5 (cont’d)

     -Quality

Florida trip
      -Weather

Vietnam settlement
     -Status
     -Barry M. Goldwater, John C. Stennis
     -Prospects
           -President's Inaugural speech
     -Nguyen Van Thieu
     -Kissinger's statement
           -Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
     -Ending the war
           -Thieu
                  -Resignation
     -Compared to October 1972 agreements
           -North Vietnamese text
     -Public statements
           -Press reaction
           -Changes since October 1972
                  -[First name unknown] Leeks [?]
                  -Michael J. “Mike” Mansfield
                         -Concessions
           -Impasse
                  -North Vietnamese position
                         -Prisoners of War [POWs]
           -December 1972 bombing
                  -Effects
           -Breakthrough
                  -Press response
     -Thieu
           -Haig's schedule

President's schedule
      -Meeting with Haig
      -Inaugural activities
             -Inaugural speech
             -Swearing-in ceremony
                                     -6-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                (rev. Jan.-09)

                                                      Conversation No. 397-5 (cont’d)

          -Parade
          -Balls
          -Worship service
          -Family reception
     -Cease-fire announcement
          -President's preparation

Vietnam settlement
     -Cease-fire announcement
           -Thieu
                  -Press coverage
                  -National assembly
                  -Changes to agreement
                  -Ellsworth F. Bunker
     -Possible trip to Saigon
           -Spiro T. Agnew
     -Bombing

Agnew
    -Relationships with President
    -Role of Vice President
          -Clinton Rossiter's book
                 -President's work as Vice President under Dwight D. Eisenhower
                       -1958
                       -Caracas
                       -Moscow trip
                       -Nikita Khrushchev
                       -Eisenhower's heart attack
    -Interests
          -Travel
                 -William P. Rogers
                 -Possible results
          -Iranian oil companies
          -Peoples Republic of China [PRC] trip
          -Moscow trip
    -Possible trips
          -Southeast Asia
          -Saigon
          -Moscow
                               -7-

     NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                         (rev. Jan.-09)

                                               Conversation No. 397-5 (cont’d)

             -Pre-negotiations
      -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman, John N. Mitchell
-President's travels under Eisenhower
      -Korea
             -Message
             -Negotiations
      -Trip around world
             -John Foster Dulles
      -Eisenhower's attitude
             -Franklin D. Roosevelt
             -Harry S. Truman
      -State Department preparations
      -North Vietnam, South Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Afghanistan
      -Results
             -Compared to Agnew
      -Inauguration of Arturo Frondizi
             -Dulles
      -Ghana
             -State Department
      -Central America in 1955
      -Latin America in 1958
             -Initiative
      -Soviet Union
             -Initiative
                    -Dulles, Christian A. Herter
-Trips
      -Purpose
-Role of negotiator
      -Kissinger
      -Agnew
             -Press conferences
-Possible action by President
-Possible trip
      -Southeast Asia, India
      -Cambodia, Laos, South Vietnam
      -Thailand
      -Indonesia
      -Southeast Asia
                                     -8-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                               (rev. Jan.-09)

                                                     Conversation No. 397-5 (cont’d)

Vietnam settlement
     -Kissinger's schedule
           -President's announcement
                  -Timing
                  -Preparation
                         -Press questions
     -Agreement
     -Haldeman
     -Thieu
     -Press statements
     -Thieu's position
           -Haig
     -Press relations
           -Columbia Broadcast System [CBS]
           -Coverage
                  -Withdrawal for Prisoners of War [POWs]
                  -History books
     -Haig’s trip to Saigon
     -Possible Thieu meeting
           -Concessions
           -Sale option
           -Agnew
           -President
                  -Travel
     -Announcement
           -Timing
     -Kissinger's schedule
     -Possible announcement by the President
           -Thieu's position
                  -Rejection
     -President's attitude
     -Possible signing and initialing
           -Follow-up
           -Kissinger’s role
           -Anatoliy F. Dobrynin
           -State Department
           -Haig
     -Thieu
           -National assembly
                                            -9-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. Jan.-09)

                                                            Conversation No. 397-5 (cont’d)

             -Haig
             -Goldwater, Stennis
                   -Congressional support
                        -Announcement
                        -Unanimous agreement

       Kissinger's schedule
             -Meeting with Price
                   -Timing
             -Meeting with friends
             -Meeting with Price
             -Meeting with Marshall Green and U. Alexis Johnson
                   -Possible follow-up with President
                         -Message
             -Meeting with Price
                   -Timing

Kissinger left at 10:55 am.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

We do that every second.
Thank you.
What I had is when we came down further, the first thing we found out was that we were in a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,
I think it tracks pretty well this past year.
Well, because of our, let's see, because of our older nations, that might be the problem with our older nations this past year.
Otherwise, they may just think that the statue of Jesus Christ comes from the cross.
The cross of our Lord.
The cross of our Lord.
The cross of our Lord.
I know, I know, it's both.
Both.
The cross of our Lord.
Thank you.
I wanted to just say that maybe we could take a breath of water.
You see, thinking in a hostile way, as we do in Latin America and Vietnam, there's only the stoppers.
But we all know that
... ... ... ... ... ...
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
As a result,
We want to use the word both because of our...
So Chinese will be king of Moscow.
in 1972.
I think that was it.
I think that's what I want to say.
But this is because of our in developing a new relationship.
Thank you.
See what I mean?
That's all.
I don't want any.
I know it starts.
Thank you.
But I think you could do it maybe better.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I think that's the only thing.
The bottom of page five, in terms of the liberty grade, I think that's something there.
What makes a sentence like, what will government do for me?
What can I say?
What makes that sense?
Deliver better or only just to have it stick out there rather than to lead into it in a different way.
And it may be that you can do that on your own.
There may be a lead in with a badge.
Your office parents, I understand.
How are they?
How are they doing?
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
When we finish, I'd like to have Wade grapple with your office for 15 minutes and look at this draft of the court policy part.
I'm just saying, Ray, come over here and I'll show you the parks.
It's not for the board to be the same, let alone any of you.
I said, I'm the only one who knew I was going to do this.
I'm crazy about it.
I said, it's here.
I said, it's here.
This is stuff that I've worked on very deeply.
Which I'm really trying to stay.
Well, some of this is great mission, but it's just better than this.
Some of it's Christ.
Some of it's Christ.
Some of it's Christ.
Now, this is a scrap.
You've worked on this.
It feels like as soon as you get something like this, it's like a spot.
And if you can, find a way to say, let us, you know, make that a slight, a quick shot, a shot, a shot, so that it stands out very starkly.
And we call it the Kenley thing, you know, of speech.
So, that's kind of natural.
That's kind of natural.
That's kind of natural.
That's kind of natural.
It was put out there.
It's a day.
Bye-bye-bye.
Oh, I didn't see that.
All right.
Well, I'll call this one.
It's not.
I'll call this one.
As a matter of fact, I picked it up right here.
Let me get the field.
So I don't know.
You're right.
You're right.
I think in order to gather this judgment on this part, you ought to go over that last part.
Go over it and get ready.
Let me say the only thing we're going to do now is to just share something on this so that people can take that out.
There's nothing else.
And I'll call you as soon as I can.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I was going to go loud.
I don't care about that.
The reason I don't have any left in me is because I don't have any left in me.
But all the men who are also in that group, you know, it's another power play that the White House has got to explain.
Well, Henry, the only thing that we have to recognize is the knowledge that I was given.
And I'm going to go forward and turn our girl with this straight up.
There's not going to be a line that we're ending the work, because suppose we have to end it, but I mean, we still have to do anything.
And what we've done this week, you know, it's like the nail on the report.
We've been talking to everybody about it.
We've been talking to everybody.
That's all I say.
That's my...
You can't stand up here and let this son of a bitch just whine and all the rest of that.
Well, the point that you made long ago, if you can trust me, you will always know something.
You'll be all right.
There came a time, before we were absolutely beaten, when we had the shot, where you said, I can't believe it.
... ... ... ... ...
He was willing to step down a year ago.
He was willing to step down in January.
He was willing to step down in May.
And now, we compare the terms to be ourselves with the things that we've got.
We've got a hell of a lot more than what we thought.
And that, like I said, is what I'm going to do.
And this, of course, we're being held to our respect.
Even if we compare our real things with the things that we've got.
That's the only place that we can ever see.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you.
When you went back in December, they backed off of it, either of everything.
And, uh, you know what I mean, that they wouldn't give you them if they got it on foot, which is why we were on foot.
And that's my point.
You see, you see, I, when I told the ladies, I said, for ten days, I said, for ten days, and then finally it was in the name of the man's bill.
Uh, he said, well, why didn't you make a concession?
Why didn't you do this or that?
And why didn't you make concessions as fast as they put up with the man's?
And my point is, it's the whole thing that's going to be breached in the total.
They were not ready to negotiate.
They were not willing to.
And he makes the brief prospect of the war of our prisoners.
In terms of the briefings, what we can say is what can be said in respect to what can be said after the 20th century times.
Because we don't want to have any signs that it wasn't the 20th century.
This is no time, I understand.
I know that you can't take them all.
But what I can say, though, I think that the main thing is that you don't want to get on that whole bonnet business and the rest of the table.
I think maybe you just handle that by yourself.
The situation is different.
I'm not going to comment upon that fact sheet.
I think you're on to the question.
... ... ... ...
Thank you.
Thank you.
Coming back to June.
Hey, it's not going to stay here.
We've got a friend who's on his way back.
So, we're just going to put it on the way.
Hey, it's on his way.
So, again, we're going to put it on the way.
So, we're just going to put it on the way.
You couldn't see me anyway.
.
.
.
That's what we're doing.
I think it's my view on the announcement.
I think we just have to try to plug it through.
Rather than calling on it, I'm just going to say it.
I'm just going to say it.
It closed.
I saw the papers.
said here this morning.
Well, he is going through all the trials and tribulations.
If you let him, if you let him die, if you put him in grace, so, you know, Jesus is the brother of God.
So,
And that isn't so bad.
That would just be a direct image to me.
Another thing they did today
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Thank you.
He was, to me, surprising because he was honest.
But he spoke rather highly of us.
I did the campaign in 1954.
I went to Iraq so I could draw that frame.
That's what I had to do.
I went to Moscow.
I was the guy that had to talk to Khrushchev the first time.
That's what he said to me the next time.
All those years, all those years, nobody, even my most vicious friends, would say that I ever reached for power or ever got talking about it.
You know, you're hard on people.
They try to say that, but they don't.
They try to say that.
And it is, and it is, I think.
You see what I went through when I was three years old.
The heartache I was having was horrible.
But he also had the really honest, good guy on him.
He was sitting around on the fucking hill, just out of position.
And then the other one, the person who was going to do it, was the worst.
In fact, he was going to be free.
He was going to be out of his mind.
And, so he came up with what I thought was the most interesting thing.
He said he was going to take these jobs.
Thank you.
I just want to warn you about this.
I just want to warn you about this.
I just want to warn you about this.
I just want to warn you about this.
I just want to warn you about this.
I just want to warn you about this.
Then the other thing he wants to do is to settle the eventual income.
Well, you know, I have to say that it's been bad.
He won't let it shine.
Well, then he says he'll drop the money.
He wants to go to the hospital.
Then he'll lose a pair of socks.
Then that's not the same.
Since he wants to be a negotiator, so...
I think it's going to be awful.
Let's get it done.
Let's get it done.
Let's get it done.
We had an odd session.
People want to have him here.
They don't want to hear it at all.
He's going to come back.
I don't think we're all wrong.
He's going to come back.
He's going to come back.
He's going to come back.
He's going to come back.
He's going to come back.
I don't believe we just can't have this.
But I told him.
That was one thing that changed as far as I was concerned.
All I did was push that article.
That's a good thing.
It's a good idea.
It's not over.
That's a very good thing to do.
But also, I have to mention this, because if you know about the investigation, I'm going to say, oh, I need to look this up.
And therefore, I would like to go here, there, and I could be having to set up.
It was his idea that I take the first trip around the world and look across the space and look there.
.
.
.
God bless you.
Thank you.
The main thing on that trip, in the terms of what she did, I mean, it makes me think of something that's impossible.
It's like that, you know, it's like that with the place where they all went.
And I had a question for people on this trip.
I was like, I met the people.
And it was, you know, it's a matter of perspective for us.
There are people that go out and give you the things, like, I'm going to tell you something.
You know, don't worry about the things.
But sometimes, you know, it's like,
Absolutely.
So it's true.
But my point is that he suggested I do that.
And then the next time I came, I called the other trips that I went to.
One was the inauguration of Rome, basically.
I went.
I went.
We were halfway there.
I was the first to go.
I was the last to go.
So I was the last one to go.
I was the last one to go.
I was the last one to go.
I was the last one to go.
I was the last one to go.
... ... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ... ... ...
I didn't make any mistakes.
I knew it.
I redefined it by dropping me constantly.
He doesn't say, here's what I can do for the president.
He says, I need to condescend.
He says he doesn't want to do good things.
He wants to have a negotiation so that he can get his name into a team.
It's very tricky for a vice president to want to do that anyway.
He can't be vice president.
I know he's done that.
I know everyone.
All other people, the vice president is basically the vice president of the presidency.
It's like being the vice president.
You can, and I can, too.
You know what I mean?
Even the secretary of state.
But I can never be the vice president.
There's the other part, isn't there?
The negotiator must be in a position that if something goes that the vice president can move away.
But my vice president, when he speaks, he speaks for the president.
I view it as...
It's never, it's never used.
What he has heard each time, I think,
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.
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.
... ... ... ... ... ...
And the need is fine, but why don't we have to do it in the future?
Why don't we have to do it in the future?
Why don't we have to do it in the future?
Why don't we have to do it in the future?
Let me say that I want to announce your trip.
I have a question.
I'm not going to answer your question.
I don't want to.
And I want to also tell you that I'm very good at this.
I'm very good at this.
I'm very good at this.
I'm very good at this.
Oh, that's right.
You don't need to announce.
I think the reason I'm testing you guys...
This is one that's right.
If you will, I don't know what I'm planning.
It's based on personal experience.
In office, it's much less limited.
It's much less limited.
It's sort of an office variety.
So it's to talk around, not just talk, talk, talk, talk.
Right?
It's got a little bit of a standard.
It's got a little bit of a standard.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, no, no, I didn't.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to need it.
I will need to look at it on Monday night.
On Monday night and Monday night.
I think it's Monday the 29th, so the Q&A, on that, you must prepare.
And, uh, Steve would have decided to appeal the 27th instead of the right to the 28th, because, you know, that was the 23rd, so that was, um, it was a big announcement, but we were due to, due to, you know, no one expected it.
I mean, yesterday, you know, I was going through the other bills, and I was, I was actually going to thank you for the people who swiped me off, and I don't know what they're going to do all day.
Thank you.
Let's think for a moment.
That's right.
That's right.
Well, they said it had him.
That's right.
So now, of course, what they have to prove is that the settlement is going to be approved.
And they're going to get back to that meet now.
That's what they're going to get back to.
But we don't think it's going to be like that.
So, you know, I think it's possible.
This is going to be a discussion that's going to be in my, like, 10 or 15 years from now.
So he's not going to have to be here.
He's going to be here.
He's going to be here.
He's going to be here.
So, it wouldn't be just a total disaster.
It is so tough.
Oh, yeah.
And there, there's no question about it.
You're going forward, but you're not necessarily going to be successful.
Now, it's not inconceivable to me.
That's when the fear goes away.
I'm sorry, I can't go along.
I read it very much.
It was rather unnecessary than I had to do.
It was like, period.
But it's taken quite a while.
All right.
All right.
All right.
I just don't really know.
I really, when I read the instructions, when I read those reading the pictures, I think I see some truth.
He's just not talking to any of his opponents.
On the ground, when he's going to check, he's going to give him all sets of paragraphs and letters.
He put in each letter something good, something bad, something good.
I don't know if that's a truth or not.
I don't know if that's true.
He's moving towards it.
No question.
You know, we told him when we said something, every time we made a concession to him, he accidentally said it.
... ... ... ... ... ... ...
I don't want him to think there's any damn option.
He knows that.
And that's why I think that I don't know what he's talking about.
I'm not going to travel one damn mile.
... ... ... ... ... ...
I think you should announce that you're going to stay out of everything.
You should tell them, rather than telling them, you just tell them to come back and try to help.
In case of this, you might have to sign it.
If you don't sign it, I should not stay over there.
It's much better that I put it down and you send me back.
That's the only question I have.
Whether I can go on and say Jesus is here.
You might say, this is what we do.
Maybe I can't do it.
I mean, I just think it's possible that it's not.
I think this is it.
That would be one hell of a lesson.
If I walk out,
So the beast is here, and everybody says, rah, rah, rah.
And the next day, Jesus says, where the hell?
Where are you?
Where are you, Christ?
So there's no way he finds us.
There's no way he can find us.
There's no way he can find us.
I agree.
I agree.
I agree.
When I go on, that's the only part I've got to be prepared.
I'm just thinking of the worst.
I'm just thinking of the worst.
I'm just thinking of the worst.
... ... ...
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
You're going to go ahead and go straight to that.
I have no question about that.
The question is, what follows after that?
And that is, that's not a reason.
My question there is, Henry, you were there, you were an agent.
So I had to step out there and say, you're an agent, you're not an agent, you're a raven, and you're Jerry Rodgers, and you're just a person that went through Saturday to Sunday.
So that was very, I would not mention you at all.
And then he said the next day, I was writing, and he put it on the stage and he said, I had this.
He said it was like, I don't know, he said, I don't know, he said, I don't know, he said, I don't know.
Thank you.
I don't know.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
Now, let me ask you a word about, like, when do you report the price?
I don't think you can pick them up.
Well,
So I'll tell you what I'll do.
You go over there and meet your friends.
I'll lay the prices.
I've had a couple of sentences that I was talking about.
I can't.
I want you to sit over there and listen to me.
It's fine.
It doesn't really matter to me.
I don't know.
I think it would be helpful if you could bring me up to five.
I don't know.
Thank you.
Alright, bye.
And I'll send it over at 1130.