{"conversationCode":"401-007","tapeNumber":401,"conversationNumber":7,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-401-007","startDateTime":"1973-01-09T19:39:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-01-09T19:53:00.000Z","startDate":"9-Jan-1973","startTime":"2:39 PM","endDate":"9-Jan-1973","endTime":"2:53 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.;","description":"On January 9, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:39 pm to 2:53 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 401-007 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":"5.3","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part III","chronReleaseDate":"23-Jun-2009","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 401-7\n\nDate: January 9, 1973\nTime: Between 2:39 pm and 2:53 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with Ronald L. Ziegler.\n\n       Ziegler's lunch meeting\n             -Clifton Daniel\n                    -Absence\n             -Francis L. Dale\n                    -Washington Star\n                         -Possible purchase\n                         -Financial status\n                               -Donald M. Kendall\n                               -Walter H. Annenberg\n\n       Washington Star\n            -Afternoon newspaper\n                  -Compared to morning\n            -Dale’s newspapers [?]\n                  -Qualities\n            -Potential\n            -Compared to Washington Post\n            -Ziegler’s conversation with [First name unknown] Wilson [?]\n            -Dale\n                  -Press relations\n\f                                     -4-\n\n           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                   Conversation No. 401-7 (cont’d)\n\n     -Financial status\n           -Dale\n           -Television [TV] Station (WMAL)\n           -TV income\n                  -Compared to newspaper income\n     -Benefits to Washington DC\n     -Dale\n           -Qualities\n           -The President’s support\n           -William Randolph Hearst Jr. [?]\n     -Future\n     -Patrick J. Buchanan\n     -William F. Buckley\n\nMartin Agronsky TV show\n\nBuckley’s TV show\n\nHelen Thomas, Fran Lewine [?]\n     -Conversation\n     -Exclusive\n\nThe President’s interview on aging\n\nMode of dress\n    -Ziegler\n    -Neckties\n           -Appropriateness\n    -The President\n           -US of neckties\n                -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman\n                -Moscow, Peking\n\nHerbert G. Klein\n     -Future\n     -The President’s conversation with Haldeman\n     -Ziegler’s conversation\n     -Future\n     -Press secretary role\n           -Advantage\n\f                                             -5-\n\n                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                              Conversation No. 401-7 (cont’d)\n\n                    -Press relations\n                    -Compared to director of communications\n                    -Policy\n              -Ziegler’s conversation with Haldeman\n\n       Washington Star\n            -Possible new owner\n            -Dale\n\n       Press relations\n             -White House power\n             -Elections\n             -Clay T. (“Tom”) Whitehead\n             -Congressional relations\n             -[Arnold] Eric Sevareid\n             -TV deregulation\n                    -VHF channels\n\n       Washington Star\n            -Dale\n\n       Haldeman\n\nZiegler left at 2:53 pm.","filename":["401-007.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ziegler, Ronald L.","Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ziegler, Ronald L."],"prevCode":"401-006","nextCode":"401-008","transcript":[{"start":0.89,"end":30.61,"text":"I'm sorry I didn't have lunch with Frank today."},{"start":30.78,"end":53.16,"text":"The Don hasn't got the money."},{"start":53.18,"end":54.12,"text":"The Don didn't have the money."},{"start":54.14,"end":56.95,"text":"The Don kind of lost a lot of personal wealth, that's what he said."},{"start":56.97,"end":57.55,"text":"The Don kind of lost his guy."},{"start":57.57,"end":59.79,"text":"And I'm going to ask you, I'm going to ask you, I'm going to ask you, you know, I'm going to ask you, you know,"},{"start":60.78,"end":84.25,"text":"Rather than seven foot, I'd like to know the meaning of the word."},{"start":84.27,"end":85.49,"text":"Well, frankly, his papers are that way, and I'm sure of that."},{"start":85.51,"end":86.17,"text":"I've got a lot of advice for you."},{"start":86.19,"end":86.61,"text":"Is it that important?"},{"start":86.63,"end":87.13,"text":"Why is it that important?"},{"start":87.15,"end":88.05,"text":"Because I'm not the only one who's out there."},{"start":88.07,"end":88.81,"text":"I'm not the only one who's out there."},{"start":88.83,"end":89.57,"text":"I'm not the only one who's out there."},{"start":89.59,"end":90.01,"text":"I'm not the only one."},{"start":91.66,"end":109.26,"text":"There's nothing better than you can do to the planet by the side of the star."},{"start":109.28,"end":112.06,"text":"We're on a powerful operation."},{"start":112.08,"end":112.72,"text":"And I believe we're on a pastor."},{"start":112.74,"end":113.58,"text":"But the star's got to be willing to do it."},{"start":113.6,"end":113.98,"text":"It's not an option."},{"start":114,"end":114.72,"text":"The post never complained about big."},{"start":114.75,"end":115.39,"text":"This is what it used to get big."},{"start":116.37,"end":116.49,"text":"Great."},{"start":116.51,"end":116.61,"text":"Good."},{"start":117.55,"end":143.86,"text":"I think it's a waste of time."},{"start":143.88,"end":145.35,"text":"Well, I mean, it's great for us, but I just want to have a guy like that."},{"start":145.37,"end":146.09,"text":"I just want to have a guy like that."},{"start":146.79,"end":173.86,"text":"Who in the hell would start making money now?"},{"start":173.88,"end":174.46,"text":"Well, they find the elements."},{"start":174.48,"end":174.98,"text":"They have a genius pulse."},{"start":175,"end":176,"text":"They don't have the elements to find the elements."},{"start":176.02,"end":176.14,"text":"Right."},{"start":177.2,"end":201.59,"text":"Which doesn't really make much difference, you know, whether it's a t-shirt or, you know, an ice cream."},{"start":201.61,"end":203.63,"text":"This is also a cross, which, you know, is sort of, you know, it gives me, you know, a point of touch."},{"start":203.65,"end":206.96,"text":"You know, it's like a, it's like a, you know, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a, like a,"},{"start":209.28,"end":238.08,"text":"."},{"start":238.1,"end":238.12,"text":"."},{"start":238.14,"end":238.16,"text":"."},{"start":238.88,"end":268.06,"text":"It's a great God."},{"start":268.08,"end":268.3,"text":"I love him."},{"start":268.48,"end":289.55,"text":"But Frank Dales was intentional."},{"start":289.57,"end":290.19,"text":"Frank Dales was involved in it."},{"start":290.21,"end":290.79,"text":"The writing wasn't very fast."},{"start":290.81,"end":291.91,"text":"In terms of the way he reacted, he was very, very good."},{"start":291.93,"end":292.88,"text":"Which is why I like to consider the same thing."},{"start":292.89,"end":293.52,"text":"The writing wasn't very strong."},{"start":293.54,"end":293.82,"text":"But get to it."},{"start":293.84,"end":294.24,"text":"I am totally for it."},{"start":294.26,"end":294.86,"text":"They're totally for operation."},{"start":294.88,"end":295.52,"text":"And that's what they want to do."},{"start":295.54,"end":296.14,"text":"They want to go all out on it."},{"start":297.61,"end":304.89,"text":"What the hell do they think?"},{"start":304.91,"end":307.82,"text":"They think I can play the game."},{"start":307.84,"end":312.64,"text":"They can't screw around with somebody who doesn't want to play the game."},{"start":312.66,"end":312.88,"text":"Absolutely."},{"start":312.9,"end":315.89,"text":"In fact, I think that's the better answer for them."},{"start":315.91,"end":316.95,"text":"I think they're probably permanently affected by it."},{"start":316.97,"end":318.25,"text":"They're not scared of something that's boring to them."},{"start":318.27,"end":321.89,"text":"Got to urge them strongly, though."},{"start":321.91,"end":322.59,"text":"Got to urge them strongly, though."},{"start":322.61,"end":324.68,"text":"Got to urge them strongly, though."},{"start":324.7,"end":325.38,"text":"Got to urge them strongly, though."},{"start":325.4,"end":326.24,"text":"I'm sure you can't buy it."},{"start":326.26,"end":326.6,"text":"You can't buy it."},{"start":327.27,"end":351.49,"text":"I guess I can't tell you what the world is, but... Well, when I was an editor for the Mark Negronsky Show, that's exactly what I did."},{"start":351.51,"end":352.57,"text":"I spent a lot of time... No, a lot of time down here."},{"start":352.59,"end":353.21,"text":"I spent a lot of time in shows."},{"start":353.23,"end":353.85,"text":"I spent a lot of time in shows."},{"start":353.87,"end":354.49,"text":"I spent a lot of time in shows."},{"start":354.51,"end":355.13,"text":"I spent a lot of time in shows."},{"start":355.3,"end":380.65,"text":"One thing I would say, I was wondering if you could get a little officer to enter the name of the victim and record it there."},{"start":380.67,"end":381.89,"text":"That would be a conversation for a person who's on a mission."},{"start":381.91,"end":382.07,"text":"Alright."},{"start":390.42,"end":417.23,"text":"You do not make one."},{"start":417.25,"end":417.67,"text":"Just ask your doctor."},{"start":417.69,"end":418.11,"text":"Just ask your doctor."},{"start":418.13,"end":418.79,"text":"I don't think that's a good idea."},{"start":418.81,"end":419.47,"text":"I don't think that's a good idea."},{"start":419.49,"end":420.15,"text":"I don't think that's a good idea."},{"start":420.37,"end":448.93,"text":"There's a lot of variety in that perspective."},{"start":448.95,"end":449.21,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":449.23,"end":449.49,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":449.51,"end":449.77,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":450.2,"end":479.84,"text":"Yeah, I don't know"},{"start":480.34,"end":502.52,"text":"Where should I look?"},{"start":502.54,"end":503.88,"text":"For example, when I was in Moscow, I never lived in the same place."},{"start":503.9,"end":504.77,"text":"I always take a walk in a park or a street."},{"start":504.79,"end":505.41,"text":"I always take a walk in a park."},{"start":506.7,"end":527.65,"text":"Why is it hurting so much?"},{"start":527.67,"end":527.93,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":527.95,"end":528.53,"text":"I don't know what's going on."},{"start":528.55,"end":529.01,"text":"Well, we ought to wait."},{"start":532.84,"end":560.38,"text":"Oh, I told you."},{"start":560.65,"end":588.5,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":588.72,"end":617.68,"text":"... ... ... ... ..."},{"start":618.5,"end":647.66,"text":"and also the administration's relationship with the president."},{"start":648.35,"end":675.96,"text":"I don't know what you're talking about."},{"start":675.98,"end":676.62,"text":"I don't know what you're saying."},{"start":678.76,"end":701.73,"text":"That policy, I learned very, very much."},{"start":701.75,"end":702.23,"text":"And it worked very well."},{"start":702.25,"end":702.35,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":702.37,"end":702.73,"text":"Pass it on to God."},{"start":702.75,"end":703.41,"text":"God is on the other side of this."},{"start":703.43,"end":704.77,"text":"They, God, I mean, essentially, essentially, like, that's the idea."},{"start":704.79,"end":706.95,"text":"The scars, the better parts of it, God, I mean, I've got lots of people who, they've got a great medication."},{"start":706.97,"end":707.55,"text":"They've got great medication."},{"start":707.7,"end":735.45,"text":"They always tell you that they have confidence in you."},{"start":735.47,"end":736.56,"text":"They always tell you that they have confidence in you."},{"start":736.58,"end":737.66,"text":"They always tell you that they have confidence in you."},{"start":737.92,"end":766.77,"text":"... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ..."},{"start":767.27,"end":794.6,"text":"I told you, right?"},{"start":794.62,"end":795.08,"text":"See, you have a portal."},{"start":795.1,"end":795.84,"text":"But it'll show you what it is, right?"},{"start":796.65,"end":825.54,"text":"... ... ... ... ... ... ..."},{"start":826.84,"end":852.9,"text":"Don't you want to turn to Congress in session, where they would have the presentation of this policy, or the research, where they would turn to Congress?"},{"start":852.92,"end":853.3,"text":"Yes, Mr. President."},{"start":853.32,"end":853.82,"text":"Well, it's a great thing."},{"start":853.84,"end":854.24,"text":"All of those things."},{"start":854.26,"end":854.44,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":854.46,"end":854.66,"text":"All right."},{"start":854.68,"end":854.88,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":854.9,"end":855.1,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":855.12,"end":855.32,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":855.34,"end":855.54,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":855.57,"end":855.76,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":855.78,"end":855.99,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":856.45,"end":878.87,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":878.89,"end":879.09,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":882.37,"end":907.63,"text":"Okay."},{"start":907.65,"end":908.83,"text":"I'll tell Daniel to explore this, but it's not our version."},{"start":908.85,"end":909.81,"text":"I'm telling him that's the most important thing."},{"start":909.83,"end":910.62,"text":"It's better than coming up on the lake."},{"start":910.63,"end":911.42,"text":"It's better than going out on the lake."},{"start":911.44,"end":911.54,"text":"Okay."},{"start":911.56,"end":911.76,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":913.36,"end":919.4,"text":"Uh, Ron?"},{"start":919.86,"end":920.36,"text":"Sir?"},{"start":920.38,"end":922.67,"text":"Get, uh, my homerooms."},{"start":922.69,"end":923.03,"text":"Everyone, go out."},{"start":923.05,"end":923.33,"text":"Your homeroom."},{"start":923.35,"end":924.09,"text":"Where did you bring my homeroom, sir?"},{"start":924.11,"end":924.31,"text":"Okay, sir."},{"start":924.33,"end":924.51,"text":"Go ahead."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler met to discuss the potential acquisition of the Washington Star by Francis L. Dale and the strategic importance of media relations for the administration. They evaluated the newspaper's market position relative to the Washington Post and explored the implications of television deregulation and press policy. The conversation reflected the President’s desire to influence media coverage and his focus on managing the administration's broader public image.","topics":["Washington Star","Media relations","Francis L. Dale","Television deregulation","Public relations"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T18:15:39.584Z"},"topicSlugs":["washington-star","media-relations","francis-l-dale","television-deregulation","public-relations"],"audioDurationSec":929,"audioFiles":[{"file":"401-007.mp3","bytes":22308981,"durationSec":929.4,"bitrate":192029,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:45.438Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:33.957Z","transcriptGapSeconds":778,"transcriptGapShare":0.84,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/401-007.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/401-007","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/401/conversation-401-007","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}