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Conversation 404-026

TapeTape 404StartTuesday, January 23, 1973 at 1:59 PMEndTuesday, January 23, 1973 at 2:30 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Colson, Charles W.;  Sanchez, ManoloRecording deviceOld Executive Office Building
AI Summary

President Nixon and Charles Colson met to strategize the administration's public messaging following the impending Vietnam cease-fire agreement. Nixon emphasized the necessity of a vigorous, aggressive counteroffensive against political opponents and media critics to ensure his policy was perceived as a vindication of his Southeast Asia strategy. They discussed mobilizing labor leaders and veterans to bolster support, while simultaneously dismissing the importance of negative press coverage from outlets like the Washington Post and CBS.

Vietnam WarMedia RelationsPublic Relations StrategyPolitical StrategyCease-fire
AudioNARA Description

On January 23, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Charles W. Colson, and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:59 pm to 2:30 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 404-026 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 404-26

Date: January 23, 1973
Time: 1:59 pm - 2:30 pm
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Charles W. Colson.

       Colson's lawsuit against Time
            -Publicity
                   -Wire services
            -Colson’s conversations
            -Libel suits
            -Richard G. Kleindienst’s analysis
                                     -38-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                (rev. Feb-09)

                                                    Conversation No. 404-26 (cont’d)

     -Hung jury
     -Settlement
            -Hill case before Supreme Court

Vietnam settlement
     -The President's speech
           -Timing
     -Conditions
           -Cease-fire in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia
           -Right of South Vietnam to hold elections
     -The President's strategy against opponents
           -White Hose staff meeting
                  -Henry A. Kissinger
           -December 1972 bombing
           -Tone
           -Colson's role
           -Kenneth W. Clawson, Herbert G. Klein, John A. Scali
           -Labor leaders
                  -Calls
                  -Personal letters from the President
                         -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman's list
                         -Frank E. Fitzsimmons, George Meany
           -Veterans leaders and other groups
           -Kissinger
           -Tone
           -Announcement by Colson and Scali
           -Political left
           -Unknown man
                  -Statement
           -Duration
           -Possible effect
     -The President's opponents
           -Attacks compared to attacks on Herbert Hoover
           -Counterattacks
                  -Effect
                  -Tone
           -The President's goals in Southeast Asia
     -Future
           -Cease-fire
                  -Violations
                                      -39-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                (rev. Feb-09)

                                                       Conversation No. 404-26 (cont’d)

            -Cambodia
            -US withdrawal
            -Prisoners of War [POWs]
     -The President's opponents
            -Republicans
                  -Charles McC. Mathias, Jr., William B. Saxbe, Jacob K. Javits, Clifford
                   P. Case
     -George D. Aiken
            -Meeting with Colson
            -Attendance at Congressional leaders meeting
            -Call from Colson
     -Hugh Scott
     -Aiken
     -Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield
     -Aiken
            -Remarks
            -Meeting with Colson
            -Support for President
     -Possible counterattacks
            -"Doves" effect
     -Aiken
     -Criticism of President
            -Counterattacks
            -Raymond K. Price [?]
     -Press relations
            -The President’s opponents
            -Congress
     -The President's speech
            -Audience
            -Importance
            -Length
            -Congress
            -Equal time
     -The President's opponents in press
            -Scali's view
            -Clawson's view

Support for the President's decisions
     -Laos, Cambodia, Peking
     -William P. Rogers, Melvin R. Laird, White House staff
                                                 -40-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                         (rev. Feb-09)

                                                           Conversation No. 404-26 (cont’d)

Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 1:59 pm.

       Refreshments

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 2:30 pm.

       Vietnam settlement
            -The President's speech
                  -Timing

       White House staff
            -Haldeman
            -Loyalty
            -Haldeman, Colson, and Patrick J. Buchanan
            -Principles
            -The President's inaugural speech
                  -The President's conversation with Haldeman
            -Conservatives
            -Dwight D. Eisenhower's staff
            -Washington Post

Manolo Sanchez entered at an unknown time after 1:59 pm.

       Colson's plans
            -Washington Post, Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]

Sanchez left at an unknown time before 2:00 pm.

       Alexander M. Haig, Jr.
            -Kissinger, Haldeman
            -Meeting with Nguyen Van Thieu
                  -Thieu's response
                        -October 1972 agreements
                        -1972 election

       Vietnam settlement
            -Possibility of earlier settlement
                  -1973 Inauguration
                                       -41-

              NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                  (rev. Feb-09)

                                                            Conversation No. 404-26 (cont’d)

Press relations
      -Colson's interview with Time
             -Ronald L. Ziegler
             -Jerold L. Schecter
             -The President’s courage
             -Effect of peer groups
             -Schecter
      -Press as the enemy
      -Scali's view
             -Loyalty to United Nations, to the President
             -Compared to Klein
      -Clawson
             -Background
                   -Wife
             -Future
             -Labor report
             -Ziegler

Scali
        -Personality
        -Future

Klein
        -Personality

Laird
        -Personality

1972 campaign [?]

Rogers [?]
     -State department

Elliot L. Richardson

Bureaucracy

Vietnam settlement
     -Controversy
           -Press relations
                                             -42-

                 NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. Feb-09)

                                                          Conversation No. 404-26 (cont’d)

           -Bombing
                 -Effect
           -Press relations
                 -Concerns
                 -Joseph W. Alsop [?]
                 -Answers
                 -Henry Grewhite [?]
                 -Paul Harvey
                 -The President’s accuracy

*****************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]

                 -Conclusion
                 -George S. McGovern
                 -Democratic Party
                 -Opinion of the President’s policies
                      -US interests

[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
*****************************************************************

      The President's opponents
           -"Doves"
           -Buchanan
           -Goal of the President's plan
           -Mathias, Saxbe, McGovern, Donald Riegle, Paul N. (“Pete”) McCloskey, Jr.,
           Mansfield, J. William Fulbright
           -"Doves"
           -Frank F. Church
           -McGovern's remarks on era of good feelings
           -The President's plan
           -Possible speech
                 -Agnew
                 -Attack on press
           -"Doves"
           -Agnew's role
                 -Effect
                                            -43-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       (rev. Feb-09)

                                                              Conversation No. 404-26 (cont’d)

             -"Doves"
                  -Expected response to cease-fire, bombing

Colson left at 2:30 pm.
Transcript (AI-Generated)

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

I wonder if he's going to be publicized anyway.
I don't know.
Oh, he's scared along.
The lawyers pulled it off.
None of that was .
He's a cop.
He's a cop.
He's got a mental illness.
He's got a mental illness.
The Bible says,
If we think we're going to get all of the poison and keep it alive, saying there's smeariness and this and the rest, I think you can put a good case suit, believe me.
I follow it all the way.
I agree.
And I don't want none of us going to get hit, but you're going to do other things.
You've got to believe me.
We're going to need the lower-ranking plan, and we're going to fight through that.
I don't want to do it.
I won't do it.
Well, I don't think so.
I think it was .
He said, .
He said, .
He said, .
And he said, .
Oh, everybody thought as a result that he really did .
In other words, once you bring them up, you carry them over the way, it moves.
Okay.
I'm going to know that you're here at a very interesting day.
When I was 10 o'clock, I was announced that we have reached the break of dawn for the last time in the world.
And every time that it was all over demand, and I said, Lord, please, we're going to have this in the world.
The ceasefire is throughout the world.
and the laws, and their right to themselves to be engaged in their own future without any outside intervention.
We've got Perry in the lead after all.
Now, what it means, of course, to be dealt with is that there must be a savage attack.
I don't know if anybody else is going to agree with what I've said, but there must be an attack.
The.
I also want every labor you can call to come to us and say the present.
Thank you.
... ... ... ... ... ...
.
That's what we ought to do.
.
I don't want to keep going for a month.
Frankly, the attack, we may not be able to destroy it because we don't have a press release.
Blackboard, Herbert Hoover was attacked by that son of a bitch.
Smart guy to work for us, don't remember.
Those were the members.
You remember the job they incurred when they made him the sandwich on the bench and everything else.
It's irrelevant.
Why is it?
We had never done anything to our enemies.
Never.
It was effective.
But this is going to react.
You must tear their guts out.
Look, they would settle for a peace that would get peace for America and continue war with 30 million people in the Southeast Asia.
We have peace.
We're going to be the hell out.
All the rest of the military is going to be a shit.
I agree completely.
I think maybe this is the time to cool Travis off.
What do you think?
Chase?
Chase?
Well, Chase is going to run for the line.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
That's right.
He will be delighted to know he's done everything
Yeah.
But you get down and say, we can do everything we want.
But what they've got to say, Chuck, is the president's policy has been vindicated.
It has worked.
And all these factors that are based upon the government, what the hell has it been all about?
Is it working or not?
And they must not get away with this line to the effect that they would have, of course, essentially.
The only way we can embrace it, we have to destroy it.
We have to use this belief as the first way to get rid of it.
Because I agree, they, I even got Christ out later than that, so it's not quite the same.
I don't know what that means, but I guess if you take the world, the credibility of it, anybody can see it.
I believe it.
.
.
.
.
.
Then after that,
Thank you.
There's quite a scally thing.
If you talk to him, he's kind of like this.
He's ready to fight.
He's got skills.
He's got ability.
The press is there.
The journalists come along with him.
He's an awesome man.
He's awesome.
I'm just going to question the narrative of that.
Why?
If you trust him completely.
Thank you.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Why doesn't anybody stand for him?
.
.
.
.
.
But you've got to be strong.
I think the real problem is that all of us have been so desperate for the question.
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've been beaten down and destroyed.
You can do it.
You can do it.
You can do it.
You can do it.
You can do it.
I'd like to be the lawyer for the Washington Post.
So we want to congratulate you.
And CBS.
CBS.
And the Washington Post.
They're too quiet.
They're too quiet.
They're too quiet.
They're too quiet.
They're too quiet.
They're too quiet.
They're too quiet.
They're too quiet.
They're too quiet.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
what you're fighting for.
It's a long story.
We didn't make this for you.
It's a part of the inauguration.
It's a part of the inauguration.
It's a long story.
We've got a long story.
We're asking what's wrong.
Where's the current?
I remember two years ago, I think we were asking to see a reporter from the county.
Maybe a year and a half ago.
You're not as good at talking as I'd be at the center of the church.
As good at talking as I'd be at the center of the church.
Fairness.
Fairness.
Fairness.
I've got to say, I think John, I think it's great.
I think John really, I don't find John quite as bad as John.
He's smarter than John.
What do you think?
I don't think it's the first one.
It's the first one.
What do you think?
He was a laborer.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Great.
Well, that's fine.
But you would be right to remind that if you're getting five cents, it's good to do the five cents.
I've never heard the motion to do it.
No, we won't do it.
Well, I just .
.
.
.
.
.
Thank you.
In other words,
... ...
I believe that there's a project now that we can't do any of it.
There really is more of a challenge.
There's just pure pressure.
Mainly, of course, because of this.
The way I'm doing this is very, I guess, skillfully suggested.
What happened to the...
.
.
.
.
Thank you.
Don't worry about the support of the mob.
You know, I mean, you don't have to worry about the fact that you're going to be able to work.
Thank you.
Thank you.
... ... ...
Thank you.
We'll tell them.
We'll tell them.
.
.
.
.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Thank you.
Yeah.
... ... ... ... ...
Yep, and we'll get a lot of people saved in that particular situation.
It's a great time.
It's a great time to do it.
We'll do it.
We'll do it.
Thank you.
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