Conversation 408-003

TapeTape 408StartMonday, February 5, 1973 at 2:58 PMEndMonday, February 5, 1973 at 4:05 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Butz, Earl L.;  Lynn, James T.;  Weinberger, Caspar W. ("Cap");  Bull, Stephen B.;  White House photographer;  Ehrlichman, John D.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On February 5, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Earl L. Butz, James T. Lynn, Caspar W. ("Cap") Weinberger, Stephen B. Bull, White House photographer, and John D. Ehrlichman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:58 pm to 4:05 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 408-003 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 408-3

Date: February 5, 1973
Time: 2:58 pm - 4:05 pm.
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Earl L. Butz, James T. Lynn, Caspar W. (“Cap”) Weinberger and
Stephen B. Bull. The White House photographer was present at the beginning of the meeting.

       Seating arrangements

       Weinberger’s confirmation hearing
             -Questions
             -Timing
             -Vote
                     -William E. Timmons

       [Photograph session]

       Unknown man
            -Women [?]
            -Age
                   -Senate

The White House photographer left at an unknown time before 4:05 pm.
                                                3

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                       Tape Subject Log
                                         (rev. Aug.-09)
                                                                 Conversation No. 408-3 (cont’d)



       John D. Ehrlichman’s schedule

Stephen B. Bull left at an unknown time after 4:05 pm.

Ehrlichman entered at an unknown time before 4:05 pm.

       Cabinet officers relations with White House
              -Follow up discussion
              -Habits
              -Suggestion
              -Discussion
              -Butz’s role
                      -Areas of responsibility
                               -Agriculture
              -Weinberger’s role [?]
              -Domestic Council [?]
              -Messages to Congress
                      -Kenneth R. Cole, Jr.
                      -Calendar
                      -Cabinet officers’ responsibility

       Environment
              -Legislation
                     -Congressional relations
                     -Water bill
                     -US News & World Reports
                             -Ehrlichman’s statements
                     -Final draft option paper
                             -Unknown man’s work
                                     -The President’s schedule

       Housing
             -Precedent setting
                    -Taxing
                    -Projects
             -Congressional relations
                                 4

    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                        Tape Subject Log
                          (rev. Aug.-09)
                                                  Conversation No. 408-3 (cont’d)


       -Wilbur D. Mills
-Subsidized low cost housing
       -Overbuilding
               -Houston
               -Los Angeles
       -Demand
               -Single family housing
       -Mills
       -Construction
               -Mobile homes
                       -George W. Romney
                               -Industrialized housing
                       -Foundation
                       -Permanent sites
       -Statement by Lunn at press conference
               -Cuts in subsidized housing
-Family assistance programs [?]
-Regional offices
-Coupons
-Weinberger
       -Political orientation
-John Schweitzberg
       -Weinberger
-Subsidized housing programs
       -Budget cuts
       -New proposals
       -Sub-standard housing
               -Dishwasher
               -Role of builder
               -Problem
               -Relocation of current residents
               -State’s role
       -Funding
               -State’s contributions
               -Loans
                       -Compared to subsidies
               -Social Security
                             5

    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                     Tape Subject Log
                       (rev. Aug.-09)
                                            Conversation No. 408-3 (cont’d)


                       -Elderly
               -Family Assistance Plan
                       -Congress
      -Rural economy
      -Romney
               -Actions
               -City housing projects
                       -Costs
                       -Developers
      -Ehrlichman’s opinion
      -Money
               -Mortgages
-Congressional relations
      -Wright Patman
      -William B. Widnall
               -Unhappiness
               -Pride
               -Revenue sharing
      -Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs Committee
               -John J. Sparkman
               -John G. Towers
      -Appropriations Committee
               -William Proxmire
               -Edward P. Boland
               -Burt L. Talcott
      -Bonds [?]
      -Proxmire
      -Innovation
      -Bipartisan
      -Local politics
               -New York City [?]
      -Charles McC. Mathias, Jr.
-Model cities and urban renewal
      -Lyndon B. Johnson
      -Congress
      -Revenue sharing
               -Substitution
                              6

    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                      Tape Subject Log
                        (rev. Aug.-09)
                                              Conversation No. 408-3 (cont’d)


               -Cut off of funding
               -“Pipeline” effect
               -Posture
        -Brooke Amendment
               -Stabilizing influence
        -Segregation of poor within cities
               -Miami, St. Louis, Los Angeles
               -Identification of low-income housing
                       -Problems
                               -Suburbs acceptance
                       -Low-income housing in South
                               -Maintenance
                                      -Richmond
                               -Miami
                       -Washington, DC low-income housing
                               -Southeast
                               -Anacostia
                               -Andrews Air Force Base
                                      -Effect of economy
-Effectiveness of programs
        -Piecemeal treatment
        -Options
        -Funding levels
        -Low-income housing
               -Land values
               -Developers
               -Cities compared to suburbs
                       -Mass transit
                       -Property taxes
                       -Population changes
                               -Washington, DC
        -Moratorium on commitments
               -Model cities and urban renewal
        -Options
               -Weinberger’s role
               -Budget
                       -“Cash basis”
                                       7

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              Tape Subject Log
                                (rev. Aug.-09)
                                                       Conversation No. 408-3 (cont’d)


              -Subsidized housing
                     -Segregation
                             -Income levels
                             -Great Britain
                                    -Race
              -Great Britain
                     -Government-built housing
                             -Sales
                                    -Income assistance
                                    -Conventional mortgages
                     -New housing
                             -Relocation of poor
                                    -Cash vouchers
                             -Success
              -Housing availability
                     -Vacancies
                     -Trends
                             -1970s, 1980s
                             -Elderly
                                    -Country living
                             -Youth
                                    -Single occupancy lifestyle
                             -Rent increases
                                    -Rent gouging
              -Legislation
                     -Food stamps
                     -Packaging
                             -Matching funds from states

Welfare and housing programs
       -Assistance for the poor
              -Family Assistance Plan [FAP] [?]
              -Food stamps
                      -Alternatives
                             -Cash subsidy
                             -Current programs
                             -Tax increase
                                      8

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                             Tape Subject Log
                               (rev. Aug.-09)
                                                      Conversation No. 408-3 (cont’d)


             -Public perception of welfare and assistance
             -Daniel P. (“Pat”) Moynihan
                     -The President’s agreement
                             -Income strategy
                                     -Compared to food stamps
                                     -Efficiency of government spending
             -Clifford M. Hardin
                     -Columbia Broadcasting System [CBS]
      -Housing allowance
             -Migration
                     -New York City compared to other US cities
                     -Cut off of allowances
                     -Subsidies
             -Federal housing
                     -Redlining
      -Recommendations
             -Nelson A. Rockefeller
             -Other governors, mayors
                     -Political attention
                     -Good ideas
             -Delay
             -Congressional relations
                     -Mills
                     -Russell B. Long

Congressional relations
      -Welfare reform legislation
              -Timing
              -Social Security
              -Federal loans program
              -Comprehensive bill
                      -Deadlock
                             -Vietnam
              -Democrats
              -Long
                      -Recommendations
      -Healthcare
                                             9

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     Tape Subject Log
                                       (rev. Aug.-09)
                                                              Conversation No. 408-3 (cont’d)


              -Education
              -Edward M. (“Ted”) Kennedy
                     -Meeting with Weinberger
                     -National health insurance proposals
              -Tax reform
              -Healthcare
                     -Health maintenance organizations [HMDs]
                     -Kennedy
                            -National health insurance proposals
                     -Budgeting
                     -HMOs
                            -Experimental program
                            -“Mixed bag”
                            -Pilot project
                            -Demonstrations
                     -Costs

       Government reorganization
             -Butz’s opinion
             -Counselor for Natural Resources
                    -Agriculture Department
                    -Ehrlichman’s opinion
                    -Interior Department
                            -Rogers C. B. Morton
                    -Labor Department
             -US News & World Report
             -Communication
             -Donald E. Johnson
                    -Administrator of Veteran Affairs
                    -Speech to employees
                            -Loyalty

       Confirmations
              -Swearing-ins

Butz, Lynn and Weinberger left at 4:30 pm.
                                             10

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      Tape Subject Log
                                        (rev. Aug.-09)
                                                         Conversation No. 408-3 (cont’d)


       The President’s schedule

       Meetings
             -Lynn [?]
                    -Duration
             -Highlights for the President
             -Cabinet meeting
                    -Duration
             -Weinberger [?]

       The President’s schedule
              -Meeting

Ehrlichman left at 4:05 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Well, let's see, you have two over here.
All right.
I like the first question I thought I could answer today.
I think it's supposed to go sometime this week.
This week?
This week.
Well, it's supposed to go before the recess.
If they ever get around to casting the actual vote.
It's a little, I'd like to get down, get the board down there.
It feels good, yeah.
I'm sure it's going to be a good day.
And it's just a nice service.
Yeah, well, it just feels so good.
Thank you.
Yes?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Alright, thanks very much.
Some of them have, some of them have not yet.
Some of them have not yet.
Some of them have not yet.
Some of them have not yet.
Some of them have not yet.
Some of them have not yet.
Let me, uh, yes, go right ahead and say it the opposite way.
All right.
And then what we're going to do is we're going to do all of this stuff here.
This building, this gate, we're going to do all of that.
All right.
All right.
All right.
All right.
All right.
All right.
I'm sorry.
Our, uh, at the office of the Secretary of State, they offer a basic service to the public life.
In fact, I used to tell you, I used to tell you, I used to tell you, I used to tell you, I used to tell you, I used to tell you, I used to tell you,
I didn't have a lot of experience with this type of thing.
I've got to get into this more than once.
I've never been to a facility like this.
I don't know if there's a particular route I'd want to go.
I don't know if there's an area that they're basically going through.
I mean, with this, it would be annoying, but in fact, it's a good thing.
When you sort of finished, you sort of started to get that connection.
Thank you.
Ken, I think there's a rough calendar for special messages.
We'll be working with each other so they know what their departments and agencies are responsible for.
Of course you have to do the lines.
I guess not actually, this is not a program, but it's realized that it's a great place.
I mean, there are things, for instance, the entire model package, it's a large control room.
Yes, I've had a great chance to, it should be aired, it should get that share, everybody support, and then bang, gosh, you know, send it up there so that we can tell people that we're doing something in the environment that must be aggressive and get their stuff out the top.
Otherwise, if they go first, they will be able to report it on time.
Well, it helps to solve this business on the water.
I'm saying all the surrounding things.
That's the response point.
Well, probably the best we can tell now, probably four weeks.
I don't know where you're at, but we're not predicting that we're going to be able to start a U.S. medicine.
That is less than five years, and we can't see any more evidence of that, and I said no.
So I've been saying that we're not going to do this.
Absolutely.
That's a great question.
Yeah.
Well, where would, so that you don't, where would that there be of having a final draft option made?
And, I mean, yes, sir.
He's got, why do you also want to make a choice?
Now, just for, I didn't, I didn't know.
He will have had a crack at it before you see it, because he's working on a draft, a previous draft.
But we're not going to hold it up until after I get it.
Today, there's a couple of sessions where I want to, you know, get into the waters and see how it's going.
And, uh, I, uh, I know that, you know, it's super, uh, you know, I've got some, uh, I've already asked John, and I've, uh, spoken to him, and I've heard from him, and I'm sure he'll go on.
And, uh, yeah.
I haven't talked to him as well.
I've got my daughter back, and, uh,
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Either it's not being true, or if it is true, whether we're setting some kind of precedent that I don't know, I'm expecting through some place else, it's probably going to be a different development than the first one.
But then on the facts, you know, what's the best way to get it back into the deep, you know, the earth?
Our first reaction to that was that our matter's over.
And they can go without being specific on the two projects, right?
So they're being programmed today to like each other.
And if you have that specific stuff put out on the two projects, right, let's talk about how to do that.
All right.
Let's see what you come up with.
All right.
Maybe you can go, you know, take a professional.
You know, you work very well with the whole team.
All right.
Uh, yeah.
Uh, what is your answer to those codes?
We're based out of Carson University, and where we are in Carson is where we go to bed, where we go to school, where we go to sleep, and where we go to work, where we go to sleep, and where we go to work, where we go to sleep, and where we go to work, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to work, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to work, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to sleep, and where we go to sleep,
But if we're in for a period where the basis points are going up,
For older buildings, as I understand it, in some parts of the country, starting with older buildings, prices like G-10, Place Clark, and Los Angeles are taking apart.
So there's still a tremendous amount of demand for single-family housing in other parts of the country.
I'll leave it at that.
That's a very grand issue, and I thought it would be an honor to share some of the evidence, you know, to take over the site, and I thought, you know, it was very, very happy.
So, I was a worker, but I didn't have a broker, but I mean, that would be a very, very good thing to do, because, you know, what is the situation with regard to, you know, what was the message, you know, before the war, because that was what was going on.
It was an incredible year compared to the historic day that we've seen in a year.
It's incredible to be able to say we're going to go back to that 20th century.
All the stores that are going to stop one time, one store, I didn't learn that.
And now the mobile phone is going to do it.
It's going up and down a very steep curve.
We're running up to about 480,000 units, 500,000 units.
And they said next year that most of the patients that I saw were on by maybe 600,000.
And the interesting thing is, last thing I want to talk about is the industrialized housing.
One part of the industrialized housing is sold to homes, and then we get to look more at it than anywhere else.
They say a dual module that you put together, it goes on a regular foundation like a regular house.
So when we started to come up with things on August, how did we focus the business?
You know, I was reaching a point where all homes, at least if they go along the ground on a permanent site, it seems to be that we did not have that kind of a rule.
So I tried to get my hands on the school, but I was not able to do it.
How are you getting along?
Well, in that way, I ask the press conference, we have just one question on, as Paul said, are we seeing a lower national programs in the world?
There is.
any effect at all, and I told them that I thought the most positive part of the United States of the Year was just one of those back-of-the-office snow with a nice little degree of effect, but you know, the federal housing programs that have done this, actually, there was no effect, whatever, for the whole of the year.
Now, what's wrong with any of that?
I'm very kind of confused here.
One of my thoughts is that I haven't been able to do this sort of impressive thing that I've been doing, and it's a lot, but it's what I do.
I don't know how to do it.
But I've asked the people to bring up the basic information, which was brought to me by some of the billion dollars that we've earned over the summer.
Very frankly, even though we haven't received any employees, we've been wonderful in production.
It hasn't put out a miraculous success between December 15th and January 6th.
You know, I can remember when the governor asked for all that additional personnel.
He said, you know, let's do it.
He said, you know, let's do it.
He said, you know, let's do it.
When they smell the salt that's coming out, we've got to pile it up there and push the baskets to the point where we call all the approvals back to the regional offices to see how much anything there was to pay around the regular procedures.
They said, Lawrence, you're talking 60,000, 70,000 more units.
None of those thousand personnel have had to be
But what I'm saying is there's just a hell of a lot of people out there in the system.
But I am also saying this is a week 40 and it's a week profitable up to now.
But I won't have a handle on that probably until we see this move.
I knew that.
I knew that the cat was a liberal.
I thought it was very difficult.
Did you ever hear of John Schwitzer?
It's an indication of that.
Well, let me say this.
Why is
But I know from my experience, we haven't done quite this.
In retrospect, I would have been inclined to have had this review.
We have some budget figures to have let us talk about transitional phasing out of some of those buildings.
But that's a hell of a question because the way we're being printed in the press is that we're not going to have any information on it.
And the minute they get that idea that we aren't coming up with our own initiatives today, then they can play on deciding that the whole subject matter thing is going to fade away.
We're not going to be able to let the school board come to us and help us do it.
So the point I've got to make is that in the next week, week and a half, we're coming up with our own ideas as to what should be done to develop these programs substantially earlier than they do.
without trying to get him down into 4 months, 5 months, 6 months, or 7 months.
And this has got to be hammered in very, very hard.
As for the subsequent programs, the more I look at them, the more I believe I want to see this rightfully, because they're God-bought.
They really are what they have to do.
They are inequitable to people.
The people that make $10 more a month can't get in with $2,000.
The people that are here get in with $2,000.
The whole process for $2,000
rather than put everything else in the first place.
You can buy the squirrels first, you can buy it for the car first, you can buy it for the home first, but with housing somehow, we have the idea that we're trying to put the broad, you know, substandard housing into a random place with dishwashers in the back.
and a complete division of roles.
Sure, we want to make the home builders happy and have a healthy, aggressive housing industry, but that's an entirely different problem than what you're going to do with the people in substandard housing.
We don't necessarily put those two things together at all.
Now, what our approach will be at this point, I'll be frank with you, I don't know that much about it.
If I have any proof at all of it, it's going to be to look at the states and look at the heck of a lot of other states that are going to have housing problems.
Well, what I'm talking about is how do we put some of the money into that and foster some of their wants also in there.
How do we do it?
The problem with the money is that it's an actual other problem.
Some of our people are talking about housing a lot.
Instead of the stuff that people put their hands on, they put their hands side to side.
And this is why I started the program.
The problem is when I start thinking about housing a lot, you start thinking more broadly about where are we going, hopefully, on the demand side.
With great social security, we're all going in a huge amount.
Isn't that right?
What the heck does that mean?
They're taking care of their own house.
On the other hand, we have family assistance plans.
We don't have it now.
But where are we going or where are they going on the hill either way with regard to the problem, the total problem that I know about it?
All right, I have a pretty good lead as to where we're going on the portal problem of, say, the floor.
It's also largely because of what is the particular housing segment.
What do you think?
What about the ground floor?
You mean the direction we want to go?
I mean, he was hammered for the last year.
He's been around wringing his hands.
Yeah, no, we're in the middle of that.
Yeah, but he grinded by the boat before he was hit, man.
John, what about it?
... ... ... ...
On the minority side, I've got good knowledge, very unhappy with the list of the people who live on it, so they've got to do with each other.
And he was very proud that he got that taken out of him.
We were able to share it with him a few years ago.
And now he's taking it out again.
He's very, very proud of it.
It's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just, it's just,
How many pounds did he get?
What is his total weight?
He looked stronger than I've seen in a long time.
Apparently, it wasn't arthritis in the leg at all.
He had a very small ID.
Almost untraceable.
I think he had...
I saw him last week.
He was fighting.
He got a little older.
Not much.
A little more.
But satisfied at the start.
He's very close.
His number two, of course, I think, is Proxima.
I always tell him, my other side job, power, will be quite well.
They're handling housing matters as a committee of the whole, except for whatever subcommittee action they need to start with.
But again, I'm taking this up because I'm good at that.
It's an appropriation of the staff that I get from Proxima.
I get on with the appropriations.
I'm a committee board.
First of all, when I think, when people call me something I can't believe he said it, it was a club.
And I was pretty good.
The towel got on the other hand, my own guy, he was a minority club, I'm pretty good.
Lord helps.
I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, but I'm a good coach.
Now, my house served well, but he got very mad at all of us, because nobody would put an alert and see where I'd crossed over to, because they don't want it.
I don't think so.
I think I...
We've got to take care of things.
One half of the guy who's out there is one of our people.
We've got to take care of him.
Absolutely.
Take it away from him.
Absolutely.
There's a general vote out there, but if we come up with something that looks like it has the people, even though it's totally innovative from what they have before, I mean, it's a bipartisan vote, but they will not want us to cop out in the sense of saying that the historical matter, that it's a local community matter, and why should the people in the field pay for housing in New York City?
They will not accept that debate.
Uh, any of the engineering that I am, my bias is right in front of that generation, but I'm not going to let it take a chance.
Well, they buy the problem.
They buy the work of those who are presently living in the state of New York.
They're not much.
Well, they're not the Congress.
But you're right.
What about the
When I asked about FHA, I think one aspect was model city and the urban road.
I think that's a big question.
My big guess is if we get rolled on the hill, it has that advantage where it is, but not the revenue check.
Remember when we proposed the revenue check in 2017,
urban or rural model cities and so on.
Will we cut off model cities and turn them into as far as field commitments?
Is there a death of the end of this system?
Will we not pick up the revenue shares?
And I question, until 365 days later, will we take the revenue shares?
I think we've got a question.
With that hiatus, we're getting, again, changes up there.
The solution that I can develop up there is to try to roll this forward and figure out a way to do that.
Well, that's pretty well done.
My own doing is to find the details and point out that there's a pipeline.
There is absolutely no need to do that.
So I'm just going to take that into account.
That was one of our main reasons to do that.
That was one of our main reasons to do that.
That was one of the reasons to do that.
Well, that's what I'm saying.
The only place you might have a legitimate complaint is some of the things we've done are keeping their clients in these doors.
They have a good place right now.
That's not much money.
Well, not like that.
Maybe up to $110,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.
The rest, they're already quivered with other stuff.
They've been no longer distributed.
But very frankly, the place where it's going to be imposed was difficult, but it will not be in time on the 16th.
And that's been a barrier below in my mind.
As far as the housing issue, as I've always said, and this, and so on, that's a tie that has a lot more to do with what's going on in the community.
But what we come up with are the people who say, oh, look at what those people are doing.
They're asking for money.
This is hard.
I've got to save this money.
I don't have it.
I don't have the money.
But that's what I can do.
That's what I can do.
Oh, well, it has something to do with the bandwidth.
And there's something... Oh, yeah.
On final settings and early break, well, the revenue sharing, I think, is a good posture to be in.
And knowledge in the air is really an objective.
And I'm very curious to see how you get out of this situation.
We're coming out now.
We're going to have to look at all of the whole, the poor, the poor and the moderate, and help people to work with them.
There's this one that says, I'm pretty sure people are at 25% of their living.
How do you manage those units that we're in completely?
Just throwing out all the people who are stabilizing inputs and those gadgets.
There's people who are making more money.
They were still alive and they gave us the ability to behave a little bit, to be a little bit lower class people and say, who needs it?
I'll take a look at my other housing.
That leaves only the outstakeholding of the other housing.
They were great.
They were a great house.
They were a great problem to deal with.
Segregates the poor.
That's the problem.
Segregates the poor.
Segregates the poor.
Okay.
You can identify them immediately.
That's part of the problem.
So when you talk about their share programs or anybody accepting the lower monitoring and counting the other sellers, the guys can say, you just don't want that kind of crowd confidence to find out.
That's what we've seen.
I heard about that.
It's better maintained.
I saw it on the bridge at the end of the day.
It's just absolutely impeccable.
I don't know how to explain it.
It doesn't hurt them.
I guess that's what it's like.
Yeah, I guess that's what it's like.
Of course, in this city, it's awful.
It's awful.
It's awful.
It's awful.
It's awful.
All the way south-east of here.
Between here and Andrews Drive, along the left-hand side of the road.
Well, some of it is public housing, that's what it really is here.
A lot of it is regular housing.
But it's one thing, we're facing a couple of problems like that.
What is it are you doing, Mr. President, with regard to those people who are under threat?
As I say, we treated this problem three years ago.
Maybe it's in our style to continue to do it.
But the food law is .
Maybe that's the mode we should be in from very early on.
We're going to have to start putting our options together.
And it does tie up with, you know, people like that.
And all the other things we're about to focus on.
We can't look at housing.
We need to look at funding levels.
And what we're doing now is underproductive.
We go in, we help them clear the land and build a public housing project.
And it boosts all the land values in that area to the level of that land.
Fine.
It's not in your area.
Keep it.
to be really fruitful for self-development, not a whole lot of them do something which are out there otherwise.
Over traffic, you can't talk about sending them out to the suburbs because they lose out quite a bit of vision and you can't afford to sit down and play.
You know, even in mass transit, if people just suddenly start to make noise, if they're getting on the road, transit's gonna go away.
that it takes the people into the city.
Right, right.
And it takes the people out of the city to town.
Right, right.
And yet I have to say, also, here, if the black man's got the skills, you keep him in the city, but he commutes out to where the job is, and eventually he's got enough money to help by himself, not him to ask, and get out of some way or some other.
So even on that, we're going to see places coming, and from the suburbs that I come from, there's going to be help, basically.
And you're going to live that way.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
This is a housing program right now.
This is not urban renewal and all the other groups that were terminated because of the extra water.
So without housing, we've said, we're not going to throw good money after bad.
You know, we've got bad programs.
So we're going to stop making these commitments for 18 months.
That's why we decided to save it.
We're going to go to the city of New York.
Yeah.
We'll be able to start a new one.
Yeah.
Okay, that's over.
No sale of the foot.
But what you're talking about, the lower tip, that's the start of the housing valuation.
Is that your valuation?
Yeah, as far as I am.
Well, I'm sorry.
I'm just curious.
What is the situation that has gone with regard to this?
How is this all working?
I think that's one of the good options that's going to come to you when Cap finishes his work.
It's going to be to put everybody on a cash
uh basis we put them into the market for the services
The British don't have the same kind of race problem we have, but they have a race problem.
They build a lot of government-built housing, in effect.
Then they rent it out or they sell it.
If your income is below a certain level, you get income assistance.
If your income is above a certain level, you're on your own.
You buy in with your own money on a conventional mortgage or anything.
But they are stimulating the construction of a tremendous amount of new housing with the idea that the poor will upgrade themselves into the housing that's being vacated by the people who are moving in.
And they give them cash vouchers to move into not brand new housing, in most cases, because they can't afford it for the vouchers they get, but into the housing that the people left who didn't move into the new housing.
And it's a very successful
program, going to as we are, and not expanding our population as we are.
We are going to eat into the demand, appreciate it, and we're going to have a lot of available housing in the lower middle grade of housing available for people to come up.
So you've got his family formation to play with.
He's a bride.
He's seven.
He's the end of the age.
He's there for a long, long time.
And the other is sort of got a character in him.
He's still alive.
Also, I have another example of this development, which is the elderly here moving out of the house to be able to get more as a lifestyle.
They're not really living in the middle age, but they can afford to, right?
And on the other hand, the children are moving out of the house, earlier in the house, and establishing their own household, and it's a one-man household.
So that picture is very blurred in English, I thought.
You know, this is the idea of the student, right?
So, here's the idea of a house like my own.
I think for the long haul it is.
Let me tell you what's going to happen in one year and it totally has to do with it.
There'll be enough anecdotes of just rents going up and poor people being gouged that you'll never have a chance to have the whole two to three years for the market to respond to the additional money.
But unless you tell everybody that is what's going to happen in advance, there will be some rent gouging.
We know there will, but frankly, for the long-term, this is better.
But your other thing you were talking about earlier, if you went to...
I don't know whether the budget in the United States could stand, or whether it's a good idea, but one of the things I think we have to look at is taking all the money we're spending on it, and we build in $52,000, $52,000, $57,000, $50,000, $50,000, $50,000, $50,000, $50,000, taking that kind of money to get so many units,
a year, taking the things we're doing on the food stamps, taking the things we're doing on all the other things, you know, the boulevard, packaging all the evidence, seeing what our bill is, with regard to a matching kind of basis with the state, and saying, damn, I'm not sure we saw some of those in the previous budget.
And see what we come up with.
I'd at least like to know that this is one of our kind of things to look at.
Well, that was the charter process, and you know, that was being tied onto the rental, which is what we got.
How do you feel about that?
Well, uh, I think that there was some real reason, you know, in 69, I believe, you know, this is the way it was, and I don't know if you saw other programs, but what was it for?
Since then?
and all the other programs have moved so fast and so far that we would have to encourage them to go on with this professional and turn up that income.
And I don't think we're ever going to be able to get a good acceptance of a $24,000, $27,000, $28,000.
The last thing we can afford to take all the other stuff.
Yes, yeah.
And so you've got four of them.
That goes for two of them.
Well, I think you hear us in places between the two.
Yes, the cash is not this better than the program.
But on the other hand...
At this point, I don't literally see how we can handle it without a very large test.
If you're on a quarantine test, you're not going to have a chance.
You're not going to have a chance.
You're not going to have a chance.
You're not going to have a chance.
You're not going to have a chance.
and didn't have a situation, which we did have last time, of having some men who are not now on board with the people who are getting this form of government.
Then I did find a better way to look at it.
I've been to St. Louis.
Well, there are so many people.
Actually, not all.
I don't know about the size, but the number of additional people who have gone on to meet with the government.
You know, I've called all of their classes and everything else, but they would be people who would be getting the great vote from them.
I know I see your problems.
Hiya.
I mean, I agree with what I just said.
So I don't care about the kids.
I don't know.
But that leaves the decision to the person if he wants to spend it on food.
That's good for him.
But if he doesn't want to spend it on food stamps, food, food stamps, food stamps, food stamps, part of the problem with our office is that when it comes to food stamps,
No, he wasn't here.
I mean, you had nothing to do with it.
Yeah, but you remember.
And I don't blame our haters.
It's just that CBS put on a fucking program that was supposed to squirt in the dollars, and now it had at least been priced out for about $30,000.
and they work on it.
So, the other side of the coin, we have more and better prices out of the fold, you know, today.
The hard part for me now is, you know, next, you know, people are going to be going to have to wait until the rain stops.
Are you dead?
a non-migratory policy, but maybe what you want a guy to do is gain extensive political literacy.
Well, I'm already there on that stuff.
Well, a lot of kids would stay on the house on the 7th or 9th or the 100th or 10th or 11th or 11th or anything.
Right.
We would really like to be able to help them.
We pray that we can serve them.
Here's an opportunity to cooperate.
If you have time, there's a lot in there.
There's another angle you can start on.
Migration.
Very much so.
All right.
You get people to migrate out of these apartments and stuff.
There's a certain cost.
Supposing they didn't get their house in the office for certain hours.
That's a microcosm of all the problems.
I understand.
We're gods.
We don't have to be a god to know that we're crazy to subsidize infection.
In terms of the multiplication of time and cost.
Sure.
So it's supposed to be a rhetoric in certain areas.
Like we used to do with FHF.
I would just say it's a matter of public policy.
Within this red line, no housing system, no housing line can be spent in the city.
I don't know.
I don't think we've got a new program for this.
No, no we haven't.
We've talked with Ron about it.
I can't even realize I can get him thinking about it so he doesn't come up.
Well, we can certainly do that.
We've not had a headlong on welfare, but let's get this stuff to the House.
Well, we probably might have, but right now, on the ISAW, the Director of the Inauguration is going to sit down with me very early and he's got a nice hand.
I don't know what he's going to do.
He's in the midst of several big fights right now.
and the governors and the mayors and so on, and my first round of discussion with them is, what do you think?
What should I do?
And then occasionally they don't cover all of the options, but to raise some and say, I love this idea, but it's been going on, I can't wait for that, for one quick round of two to three weeks.
Then I know they have an intermediate line going back to the selected ones that I think are either potent to the standpoint where I push their cut on the heel, or a public opinion line, and get a little bit of kind of horny mindset, but over the next week or two weeks, I'm going to be meeting with people like this, and the various groups that I talk to.
At least they know them, their love.
Secondly, solid cast, damn good ideas.
You thought about this a lot more than I did.
whatever you're talking about
Why can't I have a category by four or five of us?
Well, either way, I think we need four or five of us.
I don't want to hear it, but we don't want to rush this.
We don't want to tell them.
We don't have that money, and the Congress is going to pass it.
It's actually, you know, it's been better.
I'm going to say, because of that, you're going to check with them.
You know, this is something we've been doing.
We found what we came up against.
And they're reconcilable to doing it.
So we're not going to do it.
And now, I think, we're going to serve all the schools.
You can say that because of this, they're better than going out and setting out another program, something for the purpose of being head of the Congress.
If you want to talk with members of Congress, Chairman Mills, Chairman Long, say to Long, Chairman, see, Mills is past.
Mills says he will not originate in the North.
I understand, but it is past.
This is a new Congress.
That's what he said, though.
In this Congress, he and Long can't do it.
And all welfare reform in this Congress will originate in the South.
And the Senate seems to be a helplessness for us.
We want to have progress with them.
So, of course, we're not interested in the Senate.
We'll be ready for the Senate.
I have to say the same thing.
Yes, sir.
I'm going to see today.
You can say that we had a meeting today.
I said, well, let's split this up.
We set up a pretty grandiose program.
We know the Congress is screwed up.
We know it's there.
We're not doing it.
I said, that's going to make the Congress different.
The President wants the Congress different.
They want the Senate different.
So now we want to take
three months before we do something like that.
And we want you to know that.
So I've got a few things over the head.
The one I think is very representative is that we've had an enormous increase in all of these things.
We've had a great 96-dollar clutter.
We have, first of all, we're going to take over a whole sub-country adult category security system.
We've got a lot of programs now under HR where we're going to do all of these things.
I just want to make sure that this is well maintained.
Meanwhile, when I got to get open at Brighton, because we didn't have any program, and I don't know why we weren't ready for all this, I just wanted to know if I could submit it in two and a half years or three years.
So I'm very happy with the program.
We're just looking at the impossibility of another deadlock blocking.
kind of, but will we say that your council on resources is going to be in a project and that you will be invested along with his ideas?
Because then why can't you do all of the art and the hand quotes and all that stuff?
Along and on, you know, there's really, there's a great hope that you're going to be able to do that.
So we can't, but we can.
Also, I think there's
We are also going to go after health issues.
And education is all about that.
And Kennedy was out with me for about an hour and a half.
And I thought very hard about that.
Talked to him a very good amount of time.
But he, again, is pure technology.
He's got all these things where he's not a nationalized development company.
But he's got insurance companies.
He's a big prop.
He's a couching guy.
He's a couching guy.
But they're all after it submits right away.
I don't submit anything on this overall welfare event.
It's just, you know, off the ground, and the Congress itself, by its own actions, you know, he said that would be an idle act.
Therefore, we are going to take some time.
That's a deliberate decision.
But we want to, we've got to see what the Congress is like.
And people want to say, you know, I've got to go bust it on the other end.
So it's pretty, you know, anyway, it was a great decision.
We can still hope instead of walking, we can just move it out of the way.
Well, there's nothing in there now.
The only thing that's in there now is last year.
We're right at the point where there are bad news.
And Kennedy's going ahead with this national health insurance thing.
we have not requested any amount or implementing program.
Well, we haven't revised or reviewed that last .
I just said that I know what's going to change since then.
Any dollar requirements of that program .
Yeah.
I haven't uh, no that's not, that's not profile viable in general.
You might as well, you might as well in the health sector go a little stronger on say our insurance and so forth and so on.
In general it's experimental and I think it's a mixed bag.
You may as well have a
I think so.
I was working on an experimental, truly pilot project.
The turtle is a company, so a number of other people came and demonstrated the turtle.
It all started
Uh, we do have a lot we can talk about in a way that we can help most, most correctly and immediately by what we've done as well.
And I thought it would be a good quality manner to manage these positions and things at this point that we're doing.
Uh, these, you know, the health care is one of the key ways that, you know, I've seen.
I've got a couple minutes, so I'm going to call this next crowd.
So, I've got to deal with those questions.
Well, at one point we need your direction on pretty soon.
Now that we put you ahead of the natural resources, don't we or do we not include agriculture in regards to the natural resources?
Is that right, John?
Well, we parceled it here and there, but then we flew back off that reserve to Leonard Center.
My view is that agriculture is important because of the candle.
I believe agriculture out there
But what we will do is to act as if we're in, and that's what we're doing.
But I think the value is to put up a dam re-organization bill just to really sell even though it's pure.
So let's start to act like it's in.
In the meantime, I know, Carol, it's very important for you to get...
I really want to act as if it were true.
Act as if it were true.
And the judge, I want to remember that wherever he could have been, he could have been.
Yes, freedom is a totally important thing.
Sometimes it's well if we do make it to a righteous place.
But it basically is that you're all the others.
This is something that's great.
And I think that's what I help do with projects.
And so, what do you say, what do you say?
Oh, sure.
No problem.
I've got a few of you who work for the labor program.
Sure.
Very important things.
Over there.
Yeah.
And I'm very interested.
I'll do the whole thing.
I'll grab some bread.
It goes down very well.
It probably would have been better if I had a speaker.
I'll repeat it anyway.
20-minute call from the counselor.
He said, sure.
He's continuing to push that.
I got this warning even from my friends at USPS.
They said, well, I said it.
counselors.
That was, uh, when I was growing up, I'll say, I heard folks say, as a local client, I said, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.
I said, I got to a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,
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I'd just like to say congratulations on the victory.
It was a very small vote, not a Johnson vote, but it was given a very strong vote.
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Thank you very much.
We'll get it done this week so we can get you sworn in before they let you down.
Well, I don't know.
You're now a hostage for something else.
I expect you to make it tomorrow or the next day.
Well, I don't know.
Very good.
We'll get you sworn in at the old office.
Who else is left besides him?
That's it.
I think we'll have the last of the last.
Get out.
Get out.
Get out.
No, they're not here.
I was just buying some time to do some work.
I mean, the deck is at 430.
Oh, okay.
So you've got a half hour, too.
John, the way we're going to do these is to... Yeah, sure, that's good.
I've got 11 hours.
Well, I'm going to tell them the answers right now.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
It's an hour.
I've got to go say four o'clock.
Yeah.
They get it done, and I get all the highlights.
And that's about as much as you can do anyway.
Yep.
And they have to deal with that.
There's a category that you've got to make it about an hour and a half.
People will never, in fact, you notice they were kind of too far in place.
And they said they're always up to date.
And they're not going to come up with other kinds of good jobs.
I don't know.
Thank you guys.
Bye.
See you at 4.30 this morning.