Nixon, Ziegler & Haig on Vietnam War and Prisoners of War

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All right, come in.

How's your bed?

Just fine, sir.

Good.

Here you go.

Well, you know, we feel about our boys as proud as hell of them, sir.

I agree with you in turn.

But I know about this.

I've talked to a lot of doctors.

I know I don't do bad.

I hope you have.

The thing to do, I hope, is not to worry about it.

We should just not make any answer.

In this case, we have the right answer.

She thought it was a vehicle thing, but she just .

She said she wanted to talk to her daughters.

Sure.

And I said, the president would want you to do that, and we're going to call her back in 10 minutes.

Right.

So I made that point several times.

So I'll go back to .

Well, one thing that you should cover on that, I mentioned it to Rod.

He said he would cover it when we came up with this half-assed agreement that we were trying to get .

And I said, let's understand.

This is not going to be in any way .

of what we were already doing.

But I just want to .

So I just wanted to be sure that .

It covers vessels.

But my vessels, that does not cover small worlds.

You don't need to get out of that.

You see, they don't need to be worried.

They can still come out and start a pattern and all of that.

The pattern takes a big shift.

Go ahead.

If, uh, if they decide to, uh, do what I want them to do, it's fine.

We'll try to do it.

Do you want me to check if we're off the meeting?

Oh, sure.

Sure, if you can come back or you just call me on the phone if it's okay.

And if you want to go, okay, I'll check.

And if you feel that it's not bad, fine.

Lead the way.

Well, I didn't have any picture.

I just wanted to run over to you then, so...

Uh, you, uh, followed, you followed Henry Cripple at all?

Yes, sir.

I followed him.

Of course, I didn't see much of the traffic.

And there is one.

The fellow out there who's been sitting on the third floor.

The, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh,

And I said, they had to clearly understand that as far as the economic .. We were very, very confident ..

I said, I knew that their military activities could be

which is the truth.

And if those folks that they want to continue to write again for us, whether it's Congress or federal, we have a chance to do it.

And it's very well, but I've got to be very critical of what they're asking of us.

And I'm not going to fight it.

So whether it might be well, that's right.

But from now on, I mean, you and I both know that what we can do is not a terrible thing.

We don't tell them that.

We don't tell them why.

But on the other hand, we have got to.

Any discussion we have with them, actually, we can't talk to them.

So hoping that that will really, really, really change.

And I think things will really, really well be ready.

Yes, sir.

They've been fairly close.

What concerned me were their actions in that program.

But I noticed in the morning before they were here that they were able to do a regular part of that.

It's produced under the auspices of the county, but it's not the lowest level in the country.

And it's a little bit different.

In fact, there's a decision that we're going to have to do that.

That's where I'm from.

You know, we've dealt with that person for a few years.

Right now, we can get away with a fine.

She was out of office.

I've never dealt with it at all.

I had a ride in a truck.

I can't believe it.

I wrapped around the steering wheel and I left.

I can't believe it.

It seemed to be really long for this woman.

I figured it was long.

But maybe they were all tired of fighting out there for a while.

I don't know.

I think for a few years, they were just very fluid, responding to one another.

I don't know.

And it's not happening again.

It's more flexible on its own.

I gathered from one of Henry's messages that the idea of the meetings is to do things somebody needs to do, to do better, to do better, to do better, to do better.

But I can't believe they want that sub-election.

And you didn't try to do that.

But, you know, they want to respect the logic of the meetings.

They should come around to what they're supposed to do.

Yeah.

For all in all, you know, uh, you know, you can see there was a person there.

I am not actually, I don't quite remember.

I don't know.

I think for those, in the words of Jim, he said quite a question.

And the words of that great gentleman that I've learned from before, it's like a reason for reason, and a reason for reason.

I went to the reception and that's when people just, you know, one way or the other, someone would be able to do it.

Did they ?

Incidentally, the thing about it now is that it's a very curious thing that we have.

Every war is going to have some heroes.

You know, we haven't had any heroes in this war.

Sure, we've been fighting on the other side and so forth, but they've been so beaten over the head, they're going to break what they've done in the war.

But in a curious way, these men are heroes.

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

I don't know whether that's universal or not.

Those guys, did you see one of the guys that signed God Bless America in Mexico?

Well, this is why I say, sir, these guys know what really hit them.

They know that you were operating as a lonely guy without a great American support, but doing what was right and never losing sight of what was really in their best interest.

And they worked.

And it worked.

And nothing had worked before it.

They know that there was a world out front.

They know there was an American out there, including many of our friends in America, many of our friends in the Congress and in the press, in Chicago Tribune.

Fuck, what are we going to do?

Well, you know, it was a problem.

This was good stuff.

There was nothing else to do.

Just to have them guys stand up and talk to each other.

And every one of them was very confused, so that there was no question about it.

They used to, didn't they always use the word commander-in-chief?

Like, alter commander-in-chief.

And in reference to doing what's right, that's the whole meaning of that thing.

And what you've got to do now is right, right, doing what you've got to do.

Whether this is a good book or a good investment, in order to be protected by other foreign policy in the future, we've simply got to have the respect of our allies.

The respect of our allies, please come on.

their conferences.

And we'd also rather have the support of the American people, because if the American people are the only supporters on the ground, they must know what the hell we're doing.

You know what I mean?

We've got the love of that dragon, and the breast of it, and the China thing, how do we do that?

Secretly.

And we've talked about it, but we didn't tell the Japanese, because the Japanese have really been bad.

The Russian negotiation had to be done secretly, or it wouldn't have been done.

I understand that you realized a fatal mistake, but I'm sure you remember, I think the most, nobody really knows, the most critical decision, actually, was not, well, the first decision was to bomb.

Continuing was my problem.

I didn't think it was a hell of a decision.

I didn't think it was a deal.

I didn't talk about it.

But the most important decision at the time was to decide to bomb.

I had someone tell him that then we know what it was.

Henry was concerned about somebody.

He didn't want to come back and say, make sure you pay for it.

He didn't.

And he also got to rally the people.

If we had rallied the people, I'm told, the North Vietnamese would have been in an impossible position.

They then could not have crept.

No.

Because I would have had to go on and say, no, you bastards.

You've got to do it.

And I think it was important just to whack them and say nothing.

And that silence spoke louder than words.

Now, you heard this.

You heard this.

You were the one who were telling me about that Polish, the communists who were reporting.

You talked to the Polish diplomats that they brought in.

They fixed a bomb on a hospital in Perkins to show them what was coming there.

And I think they really believed it.

just working exactly normally.

And he said, well, I'll put him on.

And then he ran over and was brought in.

And I said, well, Henry, I was a kid when I came home.

So I said, well, I'm going to go to one airport and I'm going to go to another.

And he said, who's that?

I'll rent this.

And he said, I'll pay you.

And I said, all right, thank you.

And I said, sure.

And that was about 4% or 3% of the advisors.

But there was a big head of steam, I think, that was very well handled.

We could have asked the soft sisters in crime about that.

Even later in the crime, I don't know.

Sure.

You know what?

They finally did something.

Bombing.

If you realize this is the first time, except for the Nagasaki bombing.

Well, really did have all services removed.

What do they say about that?

Oh, I don't know.

Of course, they're overjoyed.

They don't want to do that either.

No, I know.

But nevertheless, they need a little additional.

Their dollars are down.

All right.

And the Navy's must feel pretty good, too.

Basically, we have to pay them.

The Army fought the damn war in the South and made it possible to wire the Marines, made it possible to pull the poor damn army up into the South and just survive.

The Navy and the Air Force, you know, a lot of credit goes to those guys for bombing the Americans.

And it just happened that the crew dropped.

It was that, it was the last 52.

But I don't, I don't describe it that way.

When it really got this war around, it was everything, everything.

It all came together at one point.

for a military action.

The Vietnamization concept by itself is pretty much an act of the way it was going to be.

Well, for a chapter.

The bombing had an armistice, but it also had a critical effect on the people.

... ... ... ... ...

Well, anyway, you look back over there, Tom.

Well, now, the ADA is... Oh, why, they wouldn't have a piece of that on it.

That's right.

It would be amazing to see that we have 54% support for the border body.

It would be a while before people are starting to question foreign policy.

I already do, and I think you're in.

Yes, sir.

American people as a whole now are absolutely interested in the right all along.

People of the right.

Experiments really have to be made.

That's the thing that's what it's done for this country for us.

The whole heart of this country.

And of course you can write all along the rest of the heart of this country better than anybody else.

Tell me, how does Abrams do it?

Well, he's, he's really polite.

He must be, you know.

And Westmoreland, how's Westmoreland?

You know, I got a letter yesterday from Westmoreland.

And he... Where is he now?

He was at North Carolina.

Yeah.

And he wrote a very nice letter.

He said...

He recognized the kind of incredible hill, the kind of conditions which made the outcome of this thing much more...

over here remember yeah jesus christ he said they have to withdraw the bomb that's going to make 100 behind in fact he said something that was really funny he said the big thing the biggest thing was

and the parties were accommodated.

Which I don't think was very good, because that's one extreme of the other.

Yeah.

Of course, Abrams has got a little of that feeling, too.

Where he said, well, we've been there too long.

That's right.

He's right.

But, you know, it was just like salvation.

They were in that tough period.

Again, you can do a goddamn thing.

You can't tell me what you did.

The Chinese would have been killed.

They would have come all the way here in this final day.

But there they saw that you were relevant now.

And you were worth dealing with.

And that was the end of the attack.

We didn't have that.

How did we catch hold of that?

But I think that set the stage for these final days.

What did I want to mention to you?

I want you to think about it.

I want you to, instead of this, something I want you to discuss with Abrams and not just the Army, but the Navy.

I don't want to be upset about it.

David was telling me about the camera he shipped to LA.

It was a great work.

It was great and fun.

Now, you know I don't have a hell of a lot of confidence in the state policy planning group, although I think the government made more use of them than we have in the past, and I think we do.

I mean, they're bright people, and you just can't prove them, frankly, like Henry does, as if they were wrong all the time, and without killing them around.

I think we have to do some fundamental rethinking with regard to, for example, our NATO strategy.

I think we've got to do some fundamental thinking with regard to what the hell our position is now going to be in Southeast Asia.

I'm not talking about unilateral disarmament and all that sort of stuff.

I don't believe in that.

What I'm talking about is strategy.

What I'm talking about is, frankly, frankly, isn't a nuclear war.

that we may have to turn to a more effective conventional cloud.

I don't know if this is enough to do with it, I don't know if that is part of the .

But the point is that, and that of course means that also you've got to retain naval power, you've got to retain

The thing I'm concerned about is that what I'm talking about now has nothing to do with what I want to do, what I want to do, what I want to do, what I want to do.

So Harlow.

It's good that some of the nationalities have joined us, some of you spoke highly of us, privately to go on.

We need more military, we need our economics, we need more military.

This is exactly what we've got.

I mean, it's like, sometimes we're even conspiring to take a position that will be even-handed to the United States.

And that's one of the things.

And there's credit, full credit, which is not welcome to do that.

We want credit, we want to be like, you know, risk, availability.

Americans, of course, because we're just on the table.

You look, for example, at how the Austrians are doing now.

So, Brazil and Haiti.

Now, here's what I'm getting at before the military comes in.

I have never been one to feel that the present crop of military men, you know, we're really as unimaginative as Churchill charges

Allies were in the military line, was in World War I.

We can only agree, these guys, Christ, they were war colleagues, they were, you know, they studied all this, and they're just as smart, just as broad-minded as the guy over in the State Department that you look at in the military head.

Now, here's my point.

You have a policy planning board, which you're going to have to know that's yours.

Do you have the brightest guys and that sort of thing?

Are they really good or not?

Here's what I'm getting at.

I want to tap the monitor to see when the chiefs come over, when Marr comes in, I ask him to comment on something.

I know what it is, and you know what it is.

It's basically sort of a consensus report, filled in one way or another, but it doesn't have the depth that it should have.

When we met with the chief, you know, each was fucking for his own service.

I mean, and Zumwalt being the cleverest, did the best job, but as Henry Layler pointed out, which you recognize, I'm sure, it wasn't quite honest.

That I don't mind, at least he was thinking.

What I'm wondering, and David's point was, are we, if we, am I,

getting the benefit of the top military thinkers that I should get over there.

There must be some guys.

Can we encourage them to agree?

I said, I'd like to sit down with them sometime.

Frankly, I'm going to sit down with the State Department of Policy planning groups sometime.

We mustn't just legally.

I think, I think, I think, you know, I think that Henry Stratford, he thinks that he's a superb operator.

But there is a danger in having a man so powerful, in his own mind, that his staff just may be able to hand-safe God that man.

I think he's been right most of the time.

But nobody's right all the time.

Also, other people may have ideas.

For example, this idea of firing out that message to him about what Henry said, when he was having a problem, he was going to handle it, and maybe they'd have to compromise some of the teams and troops and handle it.

It just had to be said right there, that look, you cannot get the economic aid or keep it to any nation that is so conducting itself against its neighbors that we have to provide military aid for its neighbors.

See, now that's a, what I'm thinking about is, I don't know, maybe you'd like to think about this,

And I don't want it so stylized that altogether there's a lot of papers in which the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps are all trying to fund for their share of the budget.

And I know that's a problem, too.

What I think about is the strategy.

It's whether there couldn't be even the informal basis of leadership that's just in the region.

are important.

The brightest guy, the brightest native guy, the brightest airport guy, you can do the arts.

There must be a bright guy in your country.

But what I mean is that there must be people with brains and talents in the military who are going to waste and are not adequately leading the

I think this is very true.

I think our policy planning has got to be improved throughout the government.

And listen, this is not just every style.

It's a legacy of the 60s.

You know, the professionals were pushed out.

Right.

And it was no longer a productive field.

They always were spinning their wheels.

Yeah.

And states needed, they need a rejuvenation.

Yeah.

They needed an advance.

Yeah.

CIA.

CIA needs it.

Yeah.

Yeah, Schlesinger will cooperate in the Senate.

Oh, he'll cooperate in the Senate.

Well, can I ask you, how would you suggest that we do this?

I don't want to get so formalized that then they, you know, race out to the press and have a big paper written on it and all that sort of thing.

I'd like to get it.

I'd like to keep it on the basis where I can sit down and say,

like Henry Dillard, too.

And we'd sit down and we'd have a subject that would come down and pick the reins of these governments.

You see, we have, Henry brings them together in that question.

And you have crisis, and that's good.

But it seems to me that for some of the, that the foreign policy and the military policy and the defense policy of the United States and the free world now has got a goddamn, has got to have a goddamn heart if it will.

It really has to, it has to be viable here.

I've had a long talk with Pete.

He was not alone in Europe.

You don't want him to be criticized.

He wants to do the right thing.

But the European media is worse than ours.

Man-Europeans are just as weak as piss.

But why don't you tell me what you think of the idea?

I haven't thought it through, but David triggered me out of it.

He said, you know, these Frank people, they're not being used.

And, you know, writ large, this is the same problem that our European friends, they're good guys, you know, are scared of that because this is no longer going on.

The way this should be done, in my view, is first to do it...

In our own business, yeah.

Then we don't talk to our friends and brothers.

The professionals.

Right.

So it gets out of the media.

It's done quietly.

Now, this is what we're all depending on.

This is what will keep Britain strong.

And the white folks, the French ones.

I was at a conference last Saturday night where we had British, French, Germans.

These people, they're so delighted with the way

You have led this country.

And they've been very worried about some of the things that have come out of the articulation of your policies when you get down the line.

I mean, which are not your doctors, the way to get out of the world.

That's right.

Which are not your policies.

And I gave a speech over there.

I said, it's just precisely the opposite of what your policies are and how to stay engaged on a more realistic basis.

God, they said, you know, if you knew somebody who would just go over and tell us that, it would be worth two American divisions to just convince the other leaders in Europe that the United States is willing to stay and they're going to have to stay there all night.

They don't give a damn whether we'll change our style and we expect that to be carried through the road.

That's not the problem.

We're really worried about this.

We're going for no leaves.

They're worried about our own leaves.

Our own leaves.

And you know it's better than using her for the end of the session.

Call.

Let me ask you one thing.

Well, let me ask you about the engine.

I'd really like to have a call with such a bastard.

He might find some interesting things.

Well, how do we, uh... How can we do this to, uh...

You know, the deep communication, say, you'll dig, you'll go to the Pentagon, you've got all those people in front of you, guard marshals and so forth.

And you've got a great deal of contribute on any side.

There are others that have, Abramson, you know, a great commander, but...

But they're bound to be over there in that Navy.

They're bound to be there.

It's good for the people.

They're sort of used to the Navy.

The airport.

Quite the limited, on my observation.

Maybe they've got a couple of hours, but that's probably less than the Navy.

I would say it's the best team in the world.

How would you visualize sexual health?

Well, you want to think about it.

I'd like to think about it.

You know, they used to have a joint staff.

Right.

That's what I do.

I understand senior colonels, like they would be of what rank?

Well, they said they were generals, but I don't know.

I think it should be, my feeling is that we should have basically people who, I don't think they should be star rank, I think they should be the colonel type, you know, a good pastor 20 years ago, that type of people.

You see, when guys get up to the higher ranks,

Then they go and make the decision and all that sort of thing.

But they are not, unless they have, well, they're better at making and taking responsibility and running something.

But in terms of thinking creatively, it just begins to run out of you after a certain amount of time.

That's right, isn't it?

But if you could have, well, you could discuss it with your friends over there.

I feel the need to have here.

I've got to have a mistake, too.

I don't know how he's going to take it.

But now...

Henry is not going to be here indefinitely.

You know, he has survived indefinitely.

And we've got to build a more, frankly though, a deeper staff.

You can't just have on a one-man basis that there are states.

It is dangerous.

Because, well, I was just thinking, for example, of that decision, which we made, I mean, about not going on hold.

If I had got those messages bounced back and forth three times from here, it would be four times better.

We were able to read those, you know, and kill those people.

And if you were over there, if you remember, he was bouncing back and forth.

Kennedy was with me, and I fired back at him.

I did that all over again.

Well,

But you see, that's what comes from a man having with him just a bunch of yes-men.

Or people that he will override.

Who the hell is he going to pay attention to when it's time to order?

They don't know.

Or a resident.

Maybe he does.

I don't know.

I'm not sure.

I don't know.

So we need to get, we need to get a more balanced view of the brightest people in our area.

And the guys down in the, in other words, the Navy and the Boston Army, the Navy, all of them have definitely had a feeling that the man at the top wants to go ahead and have anything.

You know, look at some of these things.

David, for example, he's just a kid.

But he's obsessed about the Sticks missile, you know, those little boats, which the Russians, the very little Russians, they had no one.

Yeah.

Where they, where the Egyptians knocked out that Israeli destroyer.

And, uh, he said, we're just, we're not going to, we're going to have some of those, we say, but I'm talking now about the kind of war we're most likely to have.

We're all prepared to fight with them.

nuclear business.

The Russians, for example, being a land power, I mean, they're going, they have four times as many soldiers as we do.

They have real skills, which are four times as bad.

Actually, the same ratio.

But my point is, looking at the American Navy, you look back at Pearl Harbor, and you start to think of Pearl Harbor as being a planet,

except for the unfortunate loss of life.

It was perhaps the least significant loss we had this week.

They sang, as they did today, every damn ship that was useless.

All those battleships, none of them were worth a damn.

At least none of the others were saved.

And to reexamine that, well, I mean, I don't know about that kind of thing, but

you know, the military can rule out, for example, I'm glad to see the Army or the Air Force or somebody finally trying to develop a good tactical airplane, ground support airplane.

Well, that's, those are the details.

I'm thinking more, I don't like to get into the types of weapons, but I'm thinking more of

The grand strategy of the U.S. placing the world where we can't, where we are, for Latin America, for example, you know, I think for, you know, John Scali, for example, and they're all saying that that's not a good thing, and I should go to the party, and I should go to

If you're just talking common sense, you'll hold that.

You know, if we had to trade it off to get a settlement for the canal, then that might be worth considering.

But to throw it away, you know, I don't know.

He's just playing crazy.

And it's bad, anyhow, because there's a place where we can do an awful lot of quiet military diplomacy.

You know, we can sell them some material.

Well, for example, one of the basic errors that have been made, and we've got to take some of the blame for this in the last four years, and I know it's totally against my views, but, you know, Henry gets to solve all the one thing or another.

It's the fact that we have allowed him to go back to the Senate, and the church and the rest put the heat on him.

We allowed Frank and others to get into Latin America with both of these, selling them weapons.

We ought to be selling the weapons, right?

That's exactly what they said.

And he told that to the chiefs that day in Jerome.

So I'm just watching to see what's coming out of it.

Oh, sure.

That is my view.

I mean, it's all over the world.

I mean, I...

I think, actually, the United States should stay in the weapons business.

I wonder, do you wonder about...

I don't know how our policies work.

And the thing is, in any event, I feel the need for it.

I want the military in on this.

I just don't want the State Department in on this.

They aren't all softheads for the state either.

But I want the military guys to think not just in parochial military terms,

I want them to think as if they were, let me put it this way, I want each military guy to approach this exercise, what I call an exercise, is that he would command the chief, you know, and have him say, make these tough decisions, and say, now, what the hell will you do?

On your table.

Let's take our strategy.

What about those men?

I don't know.

There's another thing that he said recently that was really interesting.

He said, well, I'll take the, uh, the Mideast, because it's just full of, full of mine.

It feels like everybody's going to use some other oil.

I don't know what we do, but you just can't tell the Israelis

Look, we're just going to continue to give you arms, because they won't start anything.

But we can't hold them forever.

And also, we can't hold them.

The oil is important to us.

You know, the Saudis are soft.

The Saudis are soft.

The shawls behind us heal.

You know, I think there's very good details.

Another thing, too, you get in the switchback.

All right.

I don't think that's going to happen.

What?

I don't think so.

I think it's Soviet attack on China.

Here we sit.

Take the Scion.

I don't think the Scion provides much.

Well, they...

I know they have.

I know it's hard to do it.

I don't have the answers.

But I would say this.

What we're facing right now is a whole new world.

That's what we've got to start exploring.

This general thing, you know, we've all been faced.

And then in the next four years, we'll have to see if we can kill this tourist general.

That's an impression.

Right.

Also, you've got to face the next four years, you know, if you get a health problem, it wouldn't help you in Taiwan.

Taiwan, you know, I hope the PRC will see that they're able to handle it and have that federation.

The Taiwanese are never going to be built on those natural

If I were to make that call, I should be in the back.

Stay a little bit.

Are you on Taiwan?

Keep your strength up.

Yeah.

Give us some help.

Oh, she's simple.

It's fine.

Cheer her up.

Yeah, I got it.

You're all right.

Good.

Just one possible change.

It's not necessary, but it makes it more clear in the second paragraph.

The original rhythm, there can be no finer tribute.

We agree.

This one simply says that this is Johnson.

I agree.

When I read the news summary this morning, it did not say I had a new summary.

Somebody was saying, you know, in a symbolic sense, the flag should be mine.

They didn't say this.

The idea was mine.

Right.

I have a picture.

by the way but i haven't we've got but i want to assume you're a banker and uh if anybody asks i call the last week

That's how she was getting along.

And I remember that all day.

And I remember that.

I just, I wouldn't tell them to raise their consciousness.

This is fair enough.

Don't you have any?

Oh, we're talking, oh yeah, you heard about it.

And it's a natural thing.

Well, I just think it's a damn good idea.

Yes, sir.

I'm glad I'll be blind when those guys come on.

I don't have time.

It's too sad.

She said to me, she said, you know, this seems like a bad match.

I don't know if it's good or sad.

It should not be a bad match.

Okay, we'll go.

Do you want to read this one?

I'd be glad to read it.

Okay, no, no, that's fine.

It'll be about 20 minutes of concession.

Get this out first, and then tell them that you'll be going to read it.

And I'll read it.

You'll do it here.

Yeah, I'll read it.

You know how to do it.

Yes, sir.

Over here.

Just leave a copy of it.

Have a copy of it.

I'll do it any time you want.

Yes, sir.

Well, anyway, I won't...

I just want to plant this idea of... sort of think about it.

Thank you.

We'll talk to Henry about it.

He is going to have a very, he's going to have a very decided let down.

And this thing is going to happen.

Henry likes to make big plays, and nobody, including Henry, likes to sort of clean up after him.

and not a little bit frustrated.

And, of course, that's why he's going to try to get through things as well.

We've got to work on the second Russian song, Salt, but he's done that, and that's also going to be a little different.

We've got to possibly work on the Finnish song.

I don't want to do that.

It's harder than that one.

The other thing is to work on the American song.

I think he's going to have his problems.

Well, I have this whole ego problem now.

And also, Henry is on top.

He's very rough on people.

He doesn't dress when he's here.

He's especially unsure of the training.

He gets very rough.

I just decided he just can't be.

I think they're all stupid.

Stupid, stupid at best, and sort of disloyal in the present at worst, which they are.

So, I know what the hell is going on.

But I just have to go behind you.

But what is more taken in by these left-wing intellectuals and governments than Henry is?

Because he's more comfortable with the greatest kind of people.

He helps their own people.

But, uh, he, where he's got to really focus his attention is on Europe.

Europe.

Yes, sir.

I agree.

I think you're right about the big game.

And it's, uh, and I don't just say that for his own ego's good, it is essential.

We've got things underway that are just really, I don't understand that.

You mean FDR, European Security Conference?

Security Conference.

Economic problem.

Yeah, they had an order to ask that.

Yeah.

I don't know where to wind that clock.

I think that Schultz and other people get along very well.

I think that Schultz is such, first, he's so smart.

Second, he's so calm.

Connolly and Henry could never get along.

They were like a couple of wildcats.

Connolly, basically, just got a little bit of that stuff.

And secondly, Connolly also, there are some who do.

And the other thing, he doesn't quite trust Henry.

And of course, the other thing is that

Conway was so explosive and so strong that, uh, here he is, and I get Conway.

Everybody made this contribution.

It was an enormous contribution to me.

Henry's plan there was to leave the college.

And frankly, I don't think the college was good.

We would go out and announce that we were breaking off the lease.

We were canceling the lease.

We were dancing at the time.

And there was only the bomb.

And I said, hell no.

He said, you have been dancing at the time.

We were bomb.

It was a marvelous, marvelous place.

And Henry had a logical mind.

Sometimes he comes up with it.

basically illogical conclusion.

He didn't want it to be, he said, let's be sure that this summit's going to be knocked off.

We should go further than that.

Why should we cancel it?

They were terrible.

Well, anyway, you would think about this, but I just had this idea here today.

I had it the other weekend, and I think that we ought to, I want the military to draw it from this thing.

I'm not going to think that Richardson, of course, will be able to deal with this thing, but his thinking will be primarily state and private.

He's basically that kind of a problem.

I want to get the military to show me that.

They think about world strategy.

They play with soldiers, what Churchill did when he was a boy.

And God damn it, out of that may come an idea that we're in a situation where we would tend to be more on the state front.

That's another problem that Henry will have.

He feels so proud that he should have a successful weapon, that China was successful, Russia was successful.

Now he'll have a successful weapon.

And that's a very dangerous period.

I don't fall under that because I know it.

And, uh, I don't know, not that I'm her, but I, but I had no, uh, no, I had no problem with any of that.

And that is what you are really mistaken for.

It's when you're, when you've had about three winners, and all of a sudden you just think, you just think you're too damn smart.

You know, you know, you had a close call on this one.

Oh, boy.

We were down to the last stack of chips.

What are the last stack of chips?

No, you come to me better than that, Bob.

We were putting in the last stack of chips.

They would put it right in the table space.

Okay, but more than that, hell, we were pulling them out of the pocket anyway.

What courage is that?

Well, anyway, get back here.

A.

Great house.

Enjoy it again.

Thank you.

Nixon, Ziegler & Haig on Vietnam War and Prisoners of War

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on March 13, 1973

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