{"conversationCode":"413-001","tapeNumber":413,"conversationNumber":1,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-413-001","startDateTime":"1973-02-23T19:36:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-02-23T19:48:00.000Z","startDate":"23-Feb-1973","startTime":"2:36 PM","endDate":"23-Feb-1973","endTime":"2:48 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Wilkinson, Charles B. (\"Bud\");","description":"On February 23, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Charles B. (\"Bud\") Wilkinson met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 2:36 pm to 2:48 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 413-001 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":"5.4","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part IV","chronReleaseDate":"8-Dec-2010","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 413-1\n\nDate: February 23, 1973\nTime: 2:36 pm-2:48 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with Charles B. Wilkinson.\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n[Previous PRMPA Personal Returnable (G) withdrawal reviewed under deed of gift during\nchronological review 2007-2013]\n\n       Sports\n                -Football\n                -Basketball\n                -Track\n                -Golf\n                -Baseball\n                       -World Series\n                       -Television [TV] compared with live viewing\n                       -Pace\n                -Games\n                       -Arkansas-Oklahoma\n                       -Texas-Nebraska [?]\n                -President as spectator\n                       -Replays\n\n       Wilkinson\n              -Business\n              -Plans\n                     -Candidacy\n                     -Governor\n                     -Announcement\n\n       Oklahoma politics\n\f                                              -2-\n\n                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                          Conversation No. 413-39 (cont’d)\n\n             -Governor David Hall\n                   -George S. McGovern\n                   -Dewey F. Bartlett\n\n      Candidacy for political office\n            -Nomination\n\n      Republican candidates\n            -Poor quality\n            -Chances of success\n            -Jack R. Miller\n                    -Golf\n            -Margaret Chase Smith\n                    -Age\n            -J. Caleb Boggs\n            -House of Representatives\n\n      Wilkinson’s candidacy\n             -Governor of Oklahoma\n                    -President’s possible visit\n             -Hall\n                    -Qualities\n\n      Henry L. Bellmon\n            -Oklahoma\n                    -Polling\n                    -Political make up\n\n      Wilkinson’s potential candidacy\n             -Next Senate race\n\n******************************************************************************\n\n      Olympics bid\n            -Anti-American sentiment\n            -Committee\n                   -Wilkinson as head\n\f                                    -3-\n\n              NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                Conversation No. 413-39 (cont’d)\n\n                    -Input on members\n                    -College\n                    -Independent study\n       -Olympics\n               -1972 Munich Games incident\n       -Richard A. Moore\n       -Public relations [PR]\n               -Wilkinson’s role\n       -Berlin [?]\n               -Winter Olympics\n                       -Colorado\n                              -Denver Post\n\nWilkinson’s schedule\n       -Moore\n       -Oklahoma, Dallas\n\nPrisoners of war [POWs] return\n       -Emotion\n       -Congress [?]\n       -POW from Oklahoma\n               -Col. Robinson Risner [?]\n                      -December 1972 bombing\n\nVietnam War\n      -Henry A. Kissinger\n      -“Establishment”\n             -Old “Establishment”\n             -Removal\n             -Credibility\n\nFundraising\n\nPing pong [?]\n\nEurope [?]\n      -France\n\f                                               -4-\n\n                      NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                          Conversation No. 413-39 (cont’d)\n\n       Ambassador\n\n       Future conversation with Wilkinson\n\nWilkinson left at 2:48 pm.","filename":["413-001.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Wilkinson, Charles B. (\"Bud\")"],"prevCode":"412-008","nextCode":"413-002","transcript":[{"start":0.81,"end":12,"text":"I never watch basketball or anything else."},{"start":13.78,"end":17.01,"text":"I can't stand basketball."},{"start":17.11,"end":19.75,"text":"It's too boring."},{"start":19.99,"end":24.8,"text":"You just know it's going to be a big score."},{"start":25.94,"end":27.34,"text":"And track, I give up on that."},{"start":33.73,"end":36.69,"text":"Ball is the great, great sport."},{"start":36.71,"end":38.35,"text":"Baseball."},{"start":39.36,"end":42,"text":"World Series."},{"start":42.02,"end":54.37,"text":"Baseball is great when you're there."},{"start":56.41,"end":58.24,"text":"But you know, you're a..."},{"start":59.16,"end":71.12,"text":"In fact, I probably would have liked to have heard about this."},{"start":71.14,"end":73.88,"text":"That Oklahoma target saw a Texas game, saw a national press that took over a secret service."},{"start":74.02,"end":74.56,"text":"Just as much."},{"start":74.58,"end":81.95,"text":"I mean, I understand it might go out and tell the crowd, but I enjoy sitting there watching the reruns and everything."},{"start":81.97,"end":82.87,"text":"I'd like to go to it."},{"start":85.01,"end":93.56,"text":"otherwise, how are you doing?"},{"start":93.58,"end":110.14,"text":"very well, I'm looking great, you know, in the company that I've been working with, it's really nice to be able to share with each other, yes, I'm chairman of the board of the company, so, the company's doing well, yeah, it's been very interesting, it's the first time that I've been involved in a business, all right, experience, bigger plans, yeah, well, if I need to run for office,"},{"start":115.03,"end":129.63,"text":"You must make it now."},{"start":129.65,"end":129.87,"text":"Absolutely."},{"start":129.89,"end":133.5,"text":"I've got to make it in a couple of months, and I really just want to go home."},{"start":133.52,"end":133.92,"text":"Who is the governor?"},{"start":133.94,"end":134.3,"text":"That's David Hall."},{"start":134.32,"end":134.54,"text":"That's all."},{"start":134.56,"end":135.16,"text":"Well, he's taken off 60 times."},{"start":135.18,"end":135.56,"text":"He was pretty good."},{"start":135.58,"end":136.36,"text":"He really had anybody but the governor."},{"start":136.38,"end":136.8,"text":"Terry, what the hell?"},{"start":136.82,"end":137.81,"text":"Evans was the meat and fireman when I bought him."},{"start":137.82,"end":138.28,"text":"Three and two at least."},{"start":138.31,"end":139.11,"text":"But, you know, I went in there for that."},{"start":139.13,"end":140.25,"text":"The young fireman said, I'm going to carry over my home."},{"start":144.75,"end":148.76,"text":"Anybody, wouldn't you wish you could run this year?"},{"start":148.78,"end":149.98,"text":"Well, I don't even know about it."},{"start":150.08,"end":153.27,"text":"But you did another amount in the government."},{"start":153.29,"end":154.69,"text":"If I didn't know that, I'd run."},{"start":154.87,"end":166.53,"text":"You know, it was a funny thing, but all over the country this year, we had the lousiest group of candidates in the worksheet."},{"start":166.55,"end":166.97,"text":"And I don't know why."},{"start":166.99,"end":167.89,"text":"This year, any decent candidate can win."},{"start":167.91,"end":169.16,"text":"And the guys we lost, I mean, outside,"},{"start":173.81,"end":198.69,"text":"I wrote her out."},{"start":213.04,"end":223.52,"text":"because I'd love to see you get into it."},{"start":223.54,"end":229.91,"text":"They'd be lucky to have you."},{"start":229.93,"end":232.51,"text":"I don't know about Hall, the governor he's been."},{"start":232.53,"end":235.8,"text":"He's been a strong peasant, which is probably pretty true."},{"start":235.82,"end":237.02,"text":"I don't think that he's got the class."},{"start":237.04,"end":238.24,"text":"That's not setting him down."},{"start":238.26,"end":241.67,"text":"Basically, it might be that he didn't have much"},{"start":250.25,"end":266.09,"text":"as a proud state, proud state now, and they need a guy in the class that might take a poet."},{"start":266.11,"end":267.82,"text":"You can't tell me a poet."},{"start":267.84,"end":271.84,"text":"Believe me, if you want to go, I'd love to do it."},{"start":271.86,"end":273.04,"text":"If you have no center race coming up, we won't help you."},{"start":273.06,"end":273.44,"text":"So would you take a"},{"start":276.38,"end":280.9,"text":"I have that in the back of my mind."},{"start":281.12,"end":292.78,"text":"You know, there's some of those jackasses that want to abolish the American Indian Committee, but that's terrible."},{"start":292.8,"end":293.48,"text":"I think we need to hear something."},{"start":293.5,"end":295.66,"text":"If the American thing, or if you're absolutely fine, and for us, could you hit it?"},{"start":295.68,"end":295.76,"text":"Yes."},{"start":295.78,"end":297.06,"text":"Would you?"},{"start":297.08,"end":299.33,"text":"I think you'd make a recommendation as to what kind of a committee it ought to lead to."},{"start":299.35,"end":300.61,"text":"But I mean, everybody's suggesting they're heading up there."},{"start":300.63,"end":301.59,"text":"I don't want the bomb doors."},{"start":303.34,"end":328.45,"text":"So whether you're the best man or whether I'm the worst, I am not a college man in that degree, and I have been a college man all my life."},{"start":328.47,"end":329.77,"text":"You're perfect in that respect."},{"start":329.8,"end":330.94,"text":"I think it should be an independent study for me to have."},{"start":335.24,"end":342.47,"text":"I'll know when it comes."},{"start":342.49,"end":343.79,"text":"But you know that I'm just concerned."},{"start":343.81,"end":345.59,"text":"Do you believe him or what?"},{"start":345.61,"end":345.8,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":345.81,"end":348.5,"text":"Do you want to see it flushed because of what happened in his last case?"},{"start":348.52,"end":350.02,"text":"It took me a lot of time to... Well, I'd love to predict more."},{"start":352.62,"end":372.03,"text":"I don't know whether it's a winner or a loser."},{"start":372.05,"end":372.91,"text":"For example, for me, I wish I was a winner."},{"start":372.93,"end":373.33,"text":"I don't give a damn."},{"start":373.35,"end":373.73,"text":"I'm going to do it."},{"start":373.75,"end":374.41,"text":"Because I believe in the letters."},{"start":376.27,"end":377.78,"text":"Because I've noticed where people in Colorado, they say, well, beat it out."},{"start":377.8,"end":378.18,"text":"Well, I don't know."},{"start":378.2,"end":378.46,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":378.48,"end":378.74,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":378.76,"end":379.02,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":379.04,"end":379.3,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":379.74,"end":383.86,"text":"Also, where will you be for a while?"},{"start":383.88,"end":385.2,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":385.22,"end":389.03,"text":"Where are you going to be today?"},{"start":389.05,"end":390.71,"text":"Could you leave it out?"},{"start":390.79,"end":391.69,"text":"No, I've got it."},{"start":391.71,"end":391.83,"text":"Great."},{"start":391.91,"end":394.75,"text":"It's so nice to know the house."},{"start":394.77,"end":395.54,"text":"Aren't you glad?"},{"start":395.56,"end":396,"text":"How did you do those?"},{"start":396.02,"end":399.74,"text":"I think the whole nation cried."},{"start":399.76,"end":401.74,"text":"It's very important to us."},{"start":402.2,"end":405.17,"text":"I told this before."},{"start":406.42,"end":409.69,"text":"They did the right thing."},{"start":409.71,"end":411.86,"text":"Absolutely right."},{"start":411.88,"end":413.41,"text":"Absolutely right."},{"start":413.43,"end":414.54,"text":"One of my folks told me about that."},{"start":430.16,"end":450.5,"text":"But I just wanted to say one thing to you that Amber had told me, and I want to say this to about one of the three people that I called over the Saturday night."},{"start":451.91,"end":460.33,"text":"."},{"start":460.35,"end":471.81,"text":"."},{"start":471.83,"end":471.85,"text":"."},{"start":471.87,"end":471.89,"text":"."},{"start":478.88,"end":490.65,"text":"Well, I do, I do."},{"start":491.44,"end":497.52,"text":"I love to do it myself."},{"start":497.55,"end":499.81,"text":"I wish I were here."},{"start":499.83,"end":500.15,"text":"We're available."},{"start":500.17,"end":502.15,"text":"I like all the social media."},{"start":502.17,"end":503.31,"text":"I'm really good at all the things in the world right now."},{"start":504.34,"end":517.47,"text":"But you've done everything."},{"start":517.49,"end":518.23,"text":"But you've done everything in Europe."},{"start":518.25,"end":518.91,"text":"You've done everything in Europe."},{"start":518.93,"end":519.59,"text":"You've done everything in Europe."},{"start":519.61,"end":520.27,"text":"You've done everything in Europe."},{"start":520.52,"end":535.05,"text":"That would, in fact, give us what I would say would be Eric Bassett in the diplomatic days of the high attorney without having any contact with him."},{"start":535.07,"end":535.77,"text":"Now, that might be the other thing."},{"start":535.79,"end":536.05,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":536.08,"end":536.34,"text":"I don't know."},{"start":536.36,"end":536.66,"text":"They will send."},{"start":536.68,"end":537,"text":"That bothers me."},{"start":536.98,"end":553.58,"text":"Let us explore it then, and when we get back, we can explore it."},{"start":553.6,"end":554.7,"text":"Well, we have this picket through, and it's sufficient."},{"start":555.73,"end":569.71,"text":"That's the beginning, you know."},{"start":569.73,"end":569.85,"text":"Right."},{"start":570.79,"end":587.99,"text":"Yeah."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon met with Bud Wilkinson to discuss a variety of personal and political matters, ranging from sports and the upcoming Olympic committee roles to potential Republican candidacies for governor and senate seats in Oklahoma. Nixon encouraged Wilkinson to pursue a political office, citing a lack of quality candidates in the current landscape and noting that Oklahoma would benefit from his leadership. The pair also touched upon the return of prisoners of war from Vietnam and potential future diplomatic or administrative assignments for Wilkinson.","topics":["Oklahoma politics","Republican party","Bud Wilkinson","Elections","Olympic Games","Vietnam War","Prisoners of war"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T18:46:02.651Z"},"topicSlugs":["oklahoma-politics","republican-party","bud-wilkinson","elections","olympic-games","vietnam-war","prisoners-of-war"],"audioDurationSec":594,"audioFiles":[{"file":"413-001.mp3","bytes":3667968,"durationSec":594.05,"bitrate":49395,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:19:46.738Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:36.016Z","transcriptGapSeconds":103,"transcriptGapShare":0.17,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/413-001.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/413-001","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/413/conversation-413-001","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}