Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 415 › Conversation 415-010

Nixon, Kissinger & Ziegler on Vietnam War and POWs

Tuesday, February 27, 1973 · 9:30 AM–10:20 AM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 46 min

ParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President); Kissinger, Henry A.; White House operator; Ziegler, Ronald L.Conversation415-010 on Tape 415StartTuesday, February 27, 1973 at 9:30 AMEndTuesday, February 27, 1973 at 10:20 AMRecording deviceOld Executive Office BuildingSourceNixon Library record for 415-010 ↗

AI Summary

President Nixon met with Henry Kissinger and Ronald Ziegler to manage the fallout from the Vietnam cease-fire agreement, focusing specifically on North Vietnam's delays in releasing prisoners of war (POWs) and potential violations of the treaty. The participants discussed strategies for public communications, including the timing of press conferences and statements regarding the administration's firm stance on North Vietnamese compliance. Additionally, they reviewed press relations, expressed frustration with negative media coverage, and touched upon ongoing concerns related to the Watergate investigation and the legal maneuvering of the Committee to Re-elect the President.

Audio

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Transcript (AI-generated)

This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 26 minutes of this recording (about 56% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.

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They have fully put themselves behind.
Teksting av Nicolai Winther
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So now,
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God bless you.
Undertekster av Ai-Media
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Let me ask.
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Thank you for watching!
I was sitting here thinking about it, and I looked.
I'm just thinking, you know, you see the door out on the floor, and it's the old story, and I'm like, and then the officer said, the hell with having a press conference, you're going to be depressed, and you're going to have to make a survey, and I'm like, you know, it's a survey, and it's the first time that you go out, and wham, wham, wham, and 40% of the time, you're going to have to say, this is it, this is it, wait, wait,
Men, how is it like tomorrow?
I can't say.
Tomorrow I can't believe it.
It's crazy, but tomorrow, no, I can't believe it.
Really?
Yeah.
I can't believe it.
Right, right, right, right, right.
I don't know if the same thing has to wait today, but I can't believe it tomorrow.
I can't believe it.
I can't believe it.
Yeah.
I can't believe it.
Yeah.
I can't believe it.
And also, however it has to be taken into account, we will change the induction.
I mean, I look here, the only thing I think water is the water is the light-sweeping thing in the public space.
Water is under the private space.
Well, I want a message from the channel.
I don't think it's necessary to look at it that way.
We're in a highly component line here, no more charges.
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They're getting ready for a message all the way.
They're getting ready for a message all the way.
They're getting ready for a message all the way.
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Teksting av Nicolai Winther
The same.
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Just for background material on this.
We have already released 5,000 students.
It's obvious we've released 5,000 students.
But that was one of the main things.
Remember when I said that they had put a link thing in?
After October, that was what we were talking about.
They tried to link.
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I agree.
At some point I was thinking that it was rather curious, and very very interesting.
I was sitting there, and instead of the orchestration of this attack on the neighborhood, it was the first time that I did a thing to pick it up, you know, and look in the eye.
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I don't know, I don't know.
I'm gonna ask me.
No, I thought, I didn't answer your question.
I thought, you know, I thought, you know, I thought, you know, I thought, you know, I thought, you know,
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And it's not made, I should point out, it has not been made by the party that regulates this kind of criminal organization.
But just so there will be no misunderstanding on this point, whatever, about our position, the position we have made.
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What did you think?
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They, they, it's the sort of higher morality that's concerned with their life.
And they're basically the people that make this argument that all we can do is end up with a killer.
Right?
They're the higher morality.
Whatever killer, but what would they do?
What's their purpose?
The killer's done nothing.
Well, good, I should get in one line if he comes up, and that is that.
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Primarily obsessed with this country is the division and debate about war.
Now, when the war is over, I think that's the division and debate that's happening in the States.
They raise what we call the speech of the peace-fighting people, the people of each other.
Once the war was over, the women had to make fun of them, because that's the nature of our society.
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The problem with one other thing I want to mention is women come to me
My theory about all of this is that
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Otherwise, it tends to give disproportionate emphasis to both the negative and the positive.
And they're basically the columnist couple.
You know what I mean?
Now, what I think really needs emphasis is the reporting.
In other words, what the wires have said, and what the members have said.
And that, I think, should be an appendix for people to want to know about.
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Let's face it.
Only one tenth of the speaker readers read it.
One tenth.
They read the Brown page, the Smarter page, the Banach page, the Society page.
Only one tenth of the speaker readers read it.
Now, why the hell would you sit here and punish yourself by reading the Whip?
And for that matter, being buried.
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We have a, you know, a discrepancy.
And, you know, I don't, I don't guess what that is.
But I think you have to realize that we, the nationals, we don't have control over the discrepancy.
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For today, we expect you to keep quiet.
Okay, good night.
Yes, sir.

NARA Description

On February 27, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Henry A. Kissinger, White House operator, and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 9:30 am to 10:20 am. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 415-010 of the White House Tapes.

Nixon Library Finding Aid

Conversation No. 415-10

Date: February 27, 1973
Time: 9:30 am-10:20 am
Location: Executive Office Building

The President met with Henry A. Kissinger.
                                      -8-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

Statement [?]
      -North Vietnam [?]
       -Kissinger’s talk with Elliot L. Richardson
               -Richardson’s reaction
       -Lt. Col. Bui Tin
       -Civilian, military prisoners of war [POWs]

Vietnam cease-fire agreement
      -North Vietnam
              -Civilian POWs
              -Negotiations
              -South Vietnam
                      -Release
      -Scheduled POW release and troop withdrawal
              -List of prisoners
                      -Announcement
      -Delays
              -Transportation
              -Arrangement for a plane
      -Joint Military Commission
              -Lt. Col. Bui Tin
                      -Hanoi
                      -Statement
      -Ellsworth F. Bunker
              -Analysis of military commission
                      -Improved accommodations
                      -Saigon [?]
      -Nguyen Van Thieu
              -President’s announcement
              -Thieu’s visit to the US
              -Civilian and military prisoners
                      -Civilians released in South Vietnam
                      -Status according to cease-fire agreement
      -Announcement
      -North Vietnam’s goals
              -International recognition
      -Union of Soviet Socialist Republics [USSR], People’s Republic of China [PRC]
              -Conflict with US
      -President’s statement for press
                                             -9-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                     -Postponement
                     -Ronald L. Ziegler
                             -Statement
                     -North Vietnam’s position
                     -Questions
                             -Aid compared with POWs
              -Tenor of statement

The President talked with the White House operator at 9:43 am.

[Conversation No. 415-10A]

[See Conversation No. 43-204]

[End of telephone conversation]

       President’s statement
              -Advisability
              -Impact on North Vietnam
              -Timing
                       -William P. Rogers
                              -Paris
              -North Vietnam’s statements
              -Minesweep
                       -Message to North Vietnam
                              -Escalation
                              -Public compared with private message
                              -Instructions to Rogers
                              -Kissinger
                              -Reaction of North Vietnam
                              -US withdrawals

       North Vietnam’s infiltration
              -South Vietnam
              -Cease-fire agreement
                     -Violations
                     -Rearmament
              -Laos
              -Preparation for offensive
                                             -10-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

              -US aid
                     -South Vietnam
                     -Kissinger’s viewpoint
                            -Timing
                            -Outcome of offensive [?]

Ronald L. Ziegler entered at an unknown time after 9:43 am.

       President’s press conference
              -Postponement
              -POWs
              -Mining [?]
              -Ziegler’s statement
                      -Text

       Private message to North Vietnam
               -Troop withdrawals, minesweep
                      -Possible halt
               -Ziegler’s statement
                      -Timing
               -William H. Sullivan
                      -Kissinger’s cables
                      -Briefing questions

       Ziegler’s press briefing
              -Press relations [?]
              -State Secretary [?]
              -Conference [?]
              -Delay
              -POWs
              -Background information
                      -Release of civilian prisoners in South Vietnam
                      -Cease-fire negotiations
                              -October 1972
                              -Civilian compared with military POWs
                              -US position
                              -South Vietnam delegations

       President’s press conference
                                             -11-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

               -Impact and timing
               -Possible response
               -Clark R. Mollenhoff

       Press relations
               -Ziegler’s briefing
                       -Questions
                       -Strategic Arms Limitation Treaty [SALT] II
                       -Memorandums
               -Sullivan, Richardson

Kissinger left at 9:58 am.

       News summary
             -Press attack on POWs
                     -Orchestration
                            -New York Times [?]
                            -News magazines and wire services
                                    -United Press International [UPI]
                            -Ziegler’s view

       Vietnam settlement
             -Possible administration action
                     -Bombing
                             -Effectiveness
                     -Paris talks
                             -Ho Chi Minh
                             -Nguyen Thi Binh
                             -USSR, PRC
                     -POWs
                             -Delay
                             -North Vietnam
                             -US public opinion
                             -Military action
             -Nguyen Van Thieu
                     -Criticism
                     -Robert J. McCloskey
                     -Cease-fire violations
                             -Linkage to POWs, withdrawals
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            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                            -Compared to US compliance to terms
       -Laos and Cambodia
              -Linkage to POW release
       -Thieu
              -McCloskey’s statement
                     -Cease-fire violations
                     -Ziegler’s position
       -Sample response to press question by Ziegler

Watergate
      -Maurice H. Stans’s lawyers
              -Subpoenas
                     -Journalists
                            -Katherine L. Graham
                            -Carl Bernstein
                            -Robert U. (“Bob”) Woodward
      -Libel case
      -Shield law
              -Problems

Committee to Re-elect the President [CRP]’s libel case
     -Ziegler’s handling of issue
     -Shield law
             -Attorney General
             -Criminal compared to civil actions
             -State compared to federal cases
             -Caldwell case in US Superior Court
                     -Black Panthers
                     -Court testimony
     -John W. Dean, III
             -Research on law

Senate Foreign Relations Committee

Watergate
      -Ziegler’s statements to the press
      -President’s remarks
             -Frederick C. LaRue [?]
      -Mollenhoff
                                       -13-

            NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

       -Cover up
              -Advantage

Ziegler’s press statement
       -Ziegler’s manner
       -POWs
               -Release on schedule
               -Bui Tin’s statement
                       -Unofficial capacity
               -US position
       -Proposed handling
       -POWs
               -Stories

News summary
      -Negativity
             -POWs
             -Time essay on morality of war

Press relations
        -Two levels
                -White House press corps
                        -Concerns regarding Vietnam
                               -Morality
                        -Martin Z. Agronsky
                -Personalities
                        -Weaknesses
                -Attitude of superior morality

George P. Shultz-John T. Dunlop controversy
      -George Meany
              -Reservations about Phase II and Phase III wage-price action
                     -Inflation
                             -Goal
                             -Wage settlements

Press relations
        -Issue of morality
                -Robert F. (“Bobby”) Kennedy
                                      -14-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                       -Moral leadership
               -Vietnam
               -Other issues
       -Attacks on President
       -President’s statement
               -Divisions in country
                       -Vietnam
                       -Other issues
                       -Budget
                       -Role of government
                       -Role of Press
                       -Cessation of debates about war
       -Press conference
               -Purpose

War
       -Newsworthiness
       -Divisiveness

Budget cuts
      -Severity
      -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman
              -Howard J. Phillips [?], James Keogh
              -Speech
                     -Political philosophy

Vietnam settlement
      -Rhetoric
              -Escalation
              -Message to North Vietnam
                     -Kissinger
                     -Tone
                     -Mining
                     -US public opinion
              -Statements by Ziegler, Rogers
              -Statement by President
                     -Private
                     -Ultimatum
              -Mining
                                         -15-

             NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

         -Terms
               -Withdrawal
               -POWs
               -Cease-fire by US
               -Removal of mines
                      -POWs release
         -Message to North Vietnam

Budget
         -Increases
                 -Compared to cuts
         -Harris poll
                 -Liberal bias
                 -Division of opinion
                 -Vietnam
                         -Context of questions
                 -Tax increases
                         -Deficit
                 -Aid to cities, poor

News summaries
      -Two sections
              -Emphasis on columnists compared with wire services, networks
              -Appendix for columnists
                      -Kevin P. Phillips, Hobart Rowen, Carl T. Rowan
      -Need for balance
      -Washington Post, New York Times
      -Separation of news from opinion
              -Television [TV]
      -Editorials
              -Percentage of readers
              -Front, sports, finance, society pages
              -Thomas Grey (“Tom”) Wicker, Richard (“Dick”) Wilson
              -James B. (“Scotty”) Reston
      -Newspaper
              -Circulation
      -Time, Newsweek
              -Readership
                                               -16-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

       POWs
               -North Vietnam
               -Possible delay, stonewalling
                      -US reaction
                      -Bombing

       President’s trip to Philadelphia
              -Thelma C. (“Pat”) Nixon
              -Atlantic City
                       -Speech
              -POW issue
                       -Speech
                               -Teachers [?]
              -Changes of plans

       President’s schedule
              -Press conference

       Ziegler’s statement
              -Concern over agreement                 -Expectation of compliance

Ziegler left at 10:20 am.

Also recorded on February 27, 1973

  • 043-204 9:34 AM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at 9:34 am.
  • 043-205 9:43 AM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 9:43 am and 10:20 am.
  • 043-206 10:20 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone from 10:20 am to 10:21 am.
  • 043-207 10:20 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull talked on the telephone from 10:20 am to 10:21 am.
  • 043-221 10:20 AM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator talked on the telephone from 10:20 am to 10:21 am.
  • 415-011 10:20 AM · 12 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and the White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 10:20 am.
  • 415-012 10:20 AM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 10:20 am to 10:21 am.
  • 415-013 10:21 AM · 40 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 10:21 am.

All 56 conversations from February 27, 1973 →

Cite this conversation

Conversation 415-010, February 27, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/415-010 (accessed October 1, 2026).