Conversation 416-001

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in the budget that would appear to renege on our commitment and repudiate that language.

The president stands by his commitment.

That general revenue sharing is not in any way a source, an alternative source.

We don't propose it as an alternative source.

We have made these budget cuts on the basis that

We think that the non-funding decisions that have been made in the federal government stand on their own merits.

And so we stand on it.

We don't think that a community action agency ought to be perpetuated in the way that they exist now.

But we don't think you people in the states ought to throw your good money after it any more than we ought to throw federal money after it.

And so that's the kind of world model people are saying.

Model cities is a matter of special revenue sharing.

Model cities, we don't just zero fund.

We say substantive special revenue sharing.

And then if you all want to keep your model cities and do what they're doing in Philadelphia with your special revenue sharing, well, you know, it's your business.

We think that it's a marginal program of business.

But if that's the highest priority in your community, okay, you can have a holiday, you can do what you want, but are we going to have a transition fund, especially for all the cities?

No.

No, no, no.

That's, one, don't think that is enough of a, no, the kind of thing that you run into, the other thing I heard said, in my experience, was does public service apply?

Yeah.

That was a two-year program.

And we kept saying to them, and they went into it, two years ago, no, no, fellas, it's going to run out at the end of fiscal 70, right?

Right.

So this just gets you over the hump.

He said, I knew that going in.

But he says, I'm not over the hump yet.

He says, a lot of cities in the country are.

But Detroit and Seattle, one or two places, we're still at 8%, 9%.

So he says, I still need it.

I said, there's a couple hundred million dollars in that program that's never been spent.

And he says, I hope that when the thing comes to an end,

You look at that couple hundred million and say, we've still got three more problems to ask.

And let us have that part of the program going.

Because otherwise, I've got a job for you.

Don't you have this for me?

Yeah, I think you do.

And I think we have the discretion of extension.

That's one of the things that we're working on as we go on this conversation.

But how you can call that transition, I don't care.

What you call that is to help the mayor over the hard place doing his manpower special revenue sharing.

How about the governor's?

Governor's hard places are highway trust funds, water pollution, the trust fund.

Most of them want to keep it for roads.

But any road, we can't.

That's right.

We've got to open it up.

And they're divided.

They're divided.

I have an argument, too.

I think the people are with us on that.

I think so.

And most of the, what do you call it, length.

Water pollution.

I don't like that at all.

I'd love to have that water pollution.

And we just can't.

We just can't do it.

We've got the money.

That's right.

That's one thing.

Well, plus which it's inflationary, plus which we don't think the money can be spent.

Within the timeline of a lot of, I mean, we've got a lot of reasons for that.

On that one, we just got to stand firm.

Because it's a budget bust, yeah, regardless of employee.

Right, right.

Now, I don't know what other specifics we're all going to run into.

Every governor's got his own thing.

Rural governors are very tight about RDAs.

Some of them are tight about where to go.

Some of them are problematic.

Well, that's beginning to be removed.

Around the edges, Anchor Nelson wasn't able to deliver it.

We went back to him and we said, okay.

And so then he went back to his committee and came back and said, well, I guess the fellow and I are going to do it together.

So Fairbanks was working on that.

He's working with Anchor, but they don't think we've got anything there.

And so he said, well, all you're doing there is trying to limit the need.

And the breakdown of the, the breakdown arrangement was sunk.

You know, uh,

Well, we were at 5%.

And that's right, to the 20%.

But Anchor apparently is not able to deliver.

What they're now after is hiring a bank.

Right now, we're talking to them.

It's coming.

What about this guy?

I've got a whole catalog of governor's complaints over there that I didn't bring over, and I've had a chance to answer it, but I can't do it.

The cat's got it all out of line.

He's been talking to the friendly governors today.

Wes and Williams are doing good just here, and he's given them a second to do it.

I don't know whether he's talked to them.

I imagine it's a rock-colored program, but I don't know.

Incidentally, as mentioned earlier, Anne Armstrong, Vice President yesterday, had a line about this survey operation and supported it, but it cut some of the evidence, so we turned it down.

So the President had told him that he should not undertake anything that would tie it down with the evidence for special assignments.

I don't know what it's, what it's, uh, uh, she couldn't tell.

So the whole purpose of my talking to him was to get him over there, to get him the hell off of this other thing.

Well, he, uh, all right, all right, let's turn her down.

So, uh, what do you think?

What do you think?

I had to intervene to get her in the pocket.

I don't think at this point

I think it's a very good answer.

It's a hell of a lot of work.

It's getting a lot better attention.

The quality of the work is incredible.

It's supposed to be.

It's been invited and requested a lot.

It was my thought that we would spend the day on domestic matters, and I would spend 20 minutes a night on the board.

The Henry schedule would come after 20 minutes.

I'd rather not.

I'm just busy in the present time, and I just don't think we'll do that.

Why don't you just say the president's going to cover the board himself?

That gives me something to talk about at this point.

You might consider touching on the inviolability of the defense budget for diversions in domestic affairs.

And the other thing I got hit on yesterday was which should get the federal money, Hanai or Georgia.

And that's what I thought I would get a chance to reinstate.

all rich and poor, city or county, that are greatest in their interests and peace.

Sure.

And that's what it's all about.

Sure.

Absolutely.

That's fine, and I'll get Henry on that.

Just tell Henry he isn't needed.

Good.

I need to say, at the outset, that one of the most very popular to think of is the defense budget.

As you're out on this whole thing, I think as you heard the President

On that subject, I've asked that you appreciate that it's not a hurricane.

It's just not a hurricane.

See, I may have to go.

Oh, granted, I've got to sign right there.

I forgot one time.

One last thing.

I think you ought to take over.

I've talked a lot about this.

Reluctantly.

Okay, let's get it over with.

But also sitting down on the whole strategy.

What I mean is, rather than saying, well, now that we've got this program, can't do it, John.

He doesn't have the rigors, you know, and all that.

You know, Bill is so good.

He's just as bad.

And so on.

And it was a terrific, terrific operation.

I see it on my boat.

But I think, you know, let me put it this way.

I really think that you have to become a breaker of the dealing with domestic stuff.

You know, it's a hell of a job.

But just as you have to be the...

Okay, let's... Bob and I did talk about it some this morning.

I think you can handle it so well.

And I would guess that, I mean, not only in the individual sense, but in the whole sense.

And also, let me say, here's a chance for you, you know, to direct the members of the domestic council.

I mean, we've got a lot of guys over there.

We've got to send them nothing over.

I didn't mean to ask that.

I meant the only captain I can bring out.

Yeah.

They're all these captains.

Yeah.

Now, this is their job, right?

I know they're right.

I know that.

But the white bird, you know, the bus, I guess.

They've got to start having a little lunch.

I guess they're doing that.

Yes, they are.

I've been around the edges of this, but I better get into it and see just why I'm not even ready to oversee it rather than to have just a little tendency.

All right.

I mean, he works with them a lot.

I don't know how I'm going to do this.

Well, I'll tell you, there's a lot of support out in the country.

And these are among our type of people.

Business types and folks like us.

That's what the SSA, that's what pushed us.

They come up and they say, well, don't give up now.

And that's, you know, we're going to have to go read a Harris book.

Oh, well, you know, since our last day.

Well, the Harris list, I think, is the best that matters.

One last thing.

Bob had it for you.

Yeah.

the ORC will think out of this.

But one specific question was asked, which Harris did not ask.

He says, give the choice between social programs and tax increase, which the board has said is not a good answer.

You know?

I think it's against the tax increase.

Yes, sure.

I would like the last minute stuff we can get out of it.

You would mention that to Bob.

Yes, even that particular poll would make the ORC cringely.

And they listen to these guys.

So, yeah.

They're only affected by that.

They're affected by the name of John.

And, of course, by the persuasion.

I'll tell you the reason.

No, no.

We're doing everything we can.

The persuasion is not in.

Yeah.

We're in.

I think we're over here.

Well, let me get a set of strategy in place.

Good luck.

Okay.

Let me use your phone if I may, just to turn it away.

Yeah.

Do you want to get a car?

No, I'm just on my way to the hill, you know.

Let Tom know and see if I can see Scott after this appointment.

I will, uh, yeah.

Okay.

We're off.

Great.

Let's, uh, bring it to him.

Yo, yo.

Very frankly, the press were a little cranky.

They had a lot of questions about A&RQ.

And I did the same work, I did the same thing with the chairman of the board.

And they got a fair number of questions about that.

And a lot of questions about if we should share something.

A certain amount of stuff about press relations and that kind of thing.

A lot of interest in energy.

Questions about, you know, tax and trading.

See, the nation can talk to us.

Yeah.

That's what it was 25 years ago.

Exactly the same.

Well, and the thing I said to him was, don't get trapped into thinking it's an either or proposition.

We're talking about a quarter of a trillion dollar budget here.

We can do everything that's right to do, provided we're smart enough the way we spend our money.

We can't afford to waste it.

And then we get back to the waste.

All right.

See you when this is hit.

Thank you.