Nixon White House Tapes — Conversation 416-001
Date: Tuesday, February 27, 1973 at 2:48 PM
Participants: Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ehrlichman, John D.
Recording device: Old Executive Office Building
Source: https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/416-001

This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite it as authoritative.

[0:01] in the budget that would appear to renege on our commitment and repudiate that language.
[0:08] The president stands by his commitment.
[0:11] That general revenue sharing is not in any way a source, an alternative source.
[0:21] We don't propose it as an alternative source.
[0:23] We have made these budget cuts on the basis that
[0:26] We think that the non-funding decisions that have been made in the federal government stand on their own merits.
[0:40] And so we stand on it.
[0:42] We don't think that a community action agency ought to be perpetuated in the way that they exist now.
[0:48] But we don't think you people in the states ought to throw your good money after it any more than we ought to throw federal money after it.
[0:54] And so that's the kind of world model people are saying.
[0:58] Model cities is a matter of special revenue sharing.
[1:01] Model cities, we don't just zero fund.
[1:03] We say substantive special revenue sharing.
[1:06] And then if you all want to keep your model cities and do what they're doing in Philadelphia with your special revenue sharing, well, you know, it's your business.
[1:15] We think that it's a marginal program of business.
[1:18] But if that's the highest priority in your community, okay, you can have a holiday, you can do what you want, but are we going to have a transition fund, especially for all the cities?
[1:26] No.
[1:27] No, no, no.
[1:29] That's, one, don't think that is enough of a, no, the kind of thing that you run into, the other thing I heard said, in my experience, was does public service apply?
[1:39] Yeah.
[1:40] That was a two-year program.
[1:41] And we kept saying to them, and they went into it, two years ago, no, no, fellas, it's going to run out at the end of fiscal 70, right?
[1:47] Right.
[1:48] So this just gets you over the hump.
[1:50] He said, I knew that going in.
[1:52] But he says, I'm not over the hump yet.
[1:54] He says, a lot of cities in the country are.
[1:57] But Detroit and Seattle, one or two places, we're still at 8%, 9%.
[2:02] So he says, I still need it.
[2:05] I said, there's a couple hundred million dollars in that program that's never been spent.
[2:11] And he says, I hope that when the thing comes to an end,
[2:15] You look at that couple hundred million and say, we've still got three more problems to ask.
[2:21] And let us have that part of the program going.
[2:24] Because otherwise, I've got a job for you.
[2:27] Don't you have this for me?
[2:29] Yeah, I think you do.
[2:30] And I think we have the discretion of extension.
[2:32] That's one of the things that we're working on as we go on this conversation.
[2:37] But how you can call that transition, I don't care.
[2:40] What you call that is to help the mayor over the hard place doing his manpower special revenue sharing.
[2:44] How about the governor's?
[2:48] Governor's hard places are highway trust funds, water pollution, the trust fund.
[2:55] Most of them want to keep it for roads.
[2:57] But any road, we can't.
[2:59] That's right.
[3:00] We've got to open it up.
[3:03] And they're divided.
[3:04] They're divided.
[3:06] I have an argument, too.
[3:10] I think the people are with us on that.
[3:13] I think so.
[3:14] I think so.
[3:15] And most of the, what do you call it, length.
[3:22] Water pollution.
[3:24] I don't like that at all.
[3:26] I'd love to have that water pollution.
[3:29] And we just can't.
[3:31] We just can't do it.
[3:32] We've got the money.
[3:34] That's right.
[3:34] That's one thing.
[3:36] Well, plus which it's inflationary, plus which we don't think the money can be spent.
[3:42] Within the timeline of a lot of, I mean, we've got a lot of reasons for that.
[3:49] On that one, we just got to stand firm.
[3:53] Because it's a budget bust, yeah, regardless of employee.
[3:57] Right, right.
[3:58] Now, I don't know what other specifics we're all going to run into.
[4:02] Every governor's got his own thing.
[4:03] Rural governors are very tight about RDAs.
[4:05] Some of them are tight about where to go.
[4:08] Some of them are problematic.
[4:08] Well, that's beginning to be removed.
[4:10] Around the edges, Anchor Nelson wasn't able to deliver it.
[4:13] We went back to him and we said, okay.
[4:15] And so then he went back to his committee and came back and said, well, I guess the fellow and I are going to do it together.
[4:22] So Fairbanks was working on that.
[4:24] He's working with Anchor, but they don't think we've got anything there.
[4:29] And so he said, well, all you're doing there is trying to limit the need.
[4:35] And the breakdown of the, the breakdown arrangement was sunk.
[4:40] You know, uh,
[4:41] Well, we were at 5%.
[4:50] And that's right, to the 20%.
[4:53] But Anchor apparently is not able to deliver.
[4:59] What they're now after is hiring a bank.
[5:04] Right now, we're talking to them.
[5:09] It's coming.
[5:10] What about this guy?
[5:15] I've got a whole catalog of governor's complaints over there that I didn't bring over, and I've had a chance to answer it, but I can't do it.
[5:24] The cat's got it all out of line.
[5:27] He's been talking to the friendly governors today.
[5:29] Wes and Williams are doing good just here, and he's given them a second to do it.
[5:36] I don't know whether he's talked to them.
[5:39] I imagine it's a rock-colored program, but I don't know.
[5:45] Incidentally, as mentioned earlier, Anne Armstrong, Vice President yesterday, had a line about this survey operation and supported it, but it cut some of the evidence, so we turned it down.
[6:00] So the President had told him that he should not undertake anything that would tie it down with the evidence for special assignments.
[6:08] I don't know what it's, what it's, uh, uh, she couldn't tell.
[6:15] So the whole purpose of my talking to him was to get him over there, to get him the hell off of this other thing.
[6:25] Well, he, uh, all right, all right, let's turn her down.
[6:28] So, uh, what do you think?
[6:30] What do you think?
[6:32] I had to intervene to get her in the pocket.
[6:36] I had to intervene to get her in the pocket.
[6:39] I had to intervene to get her in the pocket.
[6:42] I had to intervene to get her in the pocket.
[6:48] I had to intervene to get her in the pocket.
[6:54] I had to intervene to get her in the pocket.
[6:58] I had to intervene to get her in the pocket.
[7:01] I don't think at this point
[7:31] I think it's a very good answer.
[7:37] It's a hell of a lot of work.
[7:40] It's getting a lot better attention.
[7:45] The quality of the work is incredible.
[7:51] It's supposed to be.
[7:53] It's been invited and requested a lot.
[8:03] It was my thought that we would spend the day on domestic matters, and I would spend 20 minutes a night on the board.
[8:16] The Henry schedule would come after 20 minutes.
[8:19] I'd rather not.
[8:20] I'd rather not.
[8:21] I'm just busy in the present time, and I just don't think we'll do that.
[8:28] Why don't you just say the president's going to cover the board himself?
[8:30] That gives me something to talk about at this point.
[8:34] You might consider touching on the inviolability of the defense budget for diversions in domestic affairs.
[8:47] And the other thing I got hit on yesterday was which should get the federal money, Hanai or Georgia.
[8:59] And that's what I thought I would get a chance to reinstate.
[9:04] all rich and poor, city or county, that are greatest in their interests and peace.
[9:14] Sure.
[9:14] And that's what it's all about.
[9:15] Sure.
[9:15] Absolutely.
[9:16] That's fine, and I'll get Henry on that.
[9:19] Just tell Henry he isn't needed.
[9:22] Good.
[9:24] I need to say, at the outset, that one of the most very popular to think of is the defense budget.
[9:31] As you're out on this whole thing, I think as you heard the President
[9:34] On that subject, I've asked that you appreciate that it's not a hurricane.
[9:43] It's just not a hurricane.
[9:45] See, I may have to go.
[9:47] Oh, granted, I've got to sign right there.
[9:49] I forgot one time.
[9:50] One last thing.
[9:52] I think you ought to take over.
[9:55] I've talked a lot about this.
[10:00] Reluctantly.
[10:01] Okay, let's get it over with.
[10:04] But also sitting down on the whole strategy.
[10:16] What I mean is, rather than saying, well, now that we've got this program, can't do it, John.
[10:22] He doesn't have the rigors, you know, and all that.
[10:27] You know, Bill is so good.
[10:29] He's just as bad.
[10:30] And so on.
[10:32] And it was a terrific, terrific operation.
[10:33] I see it on my boat.
[10:34] But I think, you know, let me put it this way.
[10:41] I really think that you have to become a breaker of the dealing with domestic stuff.
[10:47] You know, it's a hell of a job.
[10:48] But just as you have to be the...
[10:50] Okay, let's... Bob and I did talk about it some this morning.
[10:54] I think you can handle it so well.
[10:55] And I would guess that, I mean, not only in the individual sense, but in the whole sense.
[11:04] And also, let me say, here's a chance for you, you know, to direct the members of the domestic council.
[11:15] I mean, we've got a lot of guys over there.
[11:17] We've got to send them nothing over.
[11:20] I didn't mean to ask that.
[11:21] I meant the only captain I can bring out.
[11:23] Yeah.
[11:23] They're all these captains.
[11:24] Yeah.
[11:25] Now, this is their job, right?
[11:27] I know they're right.
[11:28] I know that.
[11:28] But the white bird, you know, the bus, I guess.
[11:31] They've got to start having a little lunch.
[11:34] I guess they're doing that.
[11:35] Yes, they are.
[11:36] I've been around the edges of this, but I better get into it and see just why I'm not even ready to oversee it rather than to have just a little tendency.
[11:46] All right.
[11:48] All right.
[11:50] I mean, he works with them a lot.
[11:51] I don't know how I'm going to do this.
[11:55] Well, I'll tell you, there's a lot of support out in the country.
[11:59] And these are among our type of people.
[12:03] Business types and folks like us.
[12:06] That's what the SSA, that's what pushed us.
[12:08] They come up and they say, well, don't give up now.
[12:11] And that's, you know, we're going to have to go read a Harris book.
[12:16] Oh, well, you know, since our last day.
[12:19] Well, the Harris list, I think, is the best that matters.
[12:25] One last thing.
[12:26] Bob had it for you.
[12:28] Yeah.
[12:28] the ORC will think out of this.
[12:32] But one specific question was asked, which Harris did not ask.
[12:39] He says, give the choice between social programs and tax increase, which the board has said is not a good answer.
[12:43] You know?
[12:43] I think it's against the tax increase.
[12:45] Yes, sure.
[12:46] I would like the last minute stuff we can get out of it.
[12:48] You would mention that to Bob.
[12:50] Yes, even that particular poll would make the ORC cringely.
[12:55] And they listen to these guys.
[12:57] So, yeah.
[12:58] They're only affected by that.
[13:03] They're affected by the name of John.
[13:06] And, of course, by the persuasion.
[13:11] I'll tell you the reason.
[13:17] No, no.
[13:18] We're doing everything we can.
[13:22] The persuasion is not in.
[13:24] Yeah.
[13:24] We're in.
[13:26] We're in.
[13:26] We're in.
[13:26] We're in.
[13:26] We're in.
[13:26] We're in.
[13:27] We're in.
[13:27] We're in.
[13:27] We're in.
[13:27] We're in.
[13:29] I think we're over here.
[13:33] Well, let me get a set of strategy in place.
[13:40] Good luck.
[13:41] Okay.
[13:41] Let me use your phone if I may, just to turn it away.
[13:43] Yeah.
[13:44] Do you want to get a car?
[13:47] No, I'm just on my way to the hill, you know.
[13:48] Let Tom know and see if I can see Scott after this appointment.
[13:51] I will, uh, yeah.
[13:53] Okay.
[13:55] We're off.
[13:56] Great.
[13:56] Let's, uh, bring it to him.
[13:58] Yo, yo.
[13:58] Very frankly, the press were a little cranky.
[14:05] They had a lot of questions about A&RQ.
[14:10] And I did the same work, I did the same thing with the chairman of the board.
[14:17] And they got a fair number of questions about that.
[14:21] And a lot of questions about if we should share something.
[14:28] A certain amount of stuff about press relations and that kind of thing.
[14:46] A lot of interest in energy.
[14:49] Questions about, you know, tax and trading.
[14:56] See, the nation can talk to us.
[14:57] Yeah.
[14:57] Yeah.
[14:57] Yeah.
[14:57] Yeah.
[15:03] That's what it was 25 years ago.
[15:08] Exactly the same.
[15:11] Well, and the thing I said to him was, don't get trapped into thinking it's an either or proposition.
[15:18] We're talking about a quarter of a trillion dollar budget here.
[15:21] We can do everything that's right to do, provided we're smart enough the way we spend our money.
[15:25] We can't afford to waste it.
[15:27] And then we get back to the waste.
[15:30] All right.
[15:31] See you when this is hit.
[15:37] Thank you.