Conversation 418-005

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Well, me?

You're the bank.

I checked that matter out on that salary thing.

And I found that you had a little break from 20 years to 32.

Do you think you're the one who raised the money?

But I thought you'd be interested to know.

I had a check.

I had all of the checks.

I had a check.

Well, I checked it out.

He said, I took a look at it.

Very difficult because she didn't get to the level where she does about it now.

How are you doing otherwise?

Oh, of course.

Isn't that great?

Well, that's great.

Well, we do that all the time, you know.

Right?

Oh, I know that.

I just wanted to see what your advice was, because, you know, we couldn't have held it.

It's not our money.

It's yours.

Okay.

All right.

The, uh...

I haven't thought that...

I've mentioned before that I do think that maybe here what we miss is occurring on the bank.

that we might work on.

I got this, you know, this crime speech on, so, and, the, the great, uh, here we are doing some rather significant things, but, what makes people remember something is a name for it.

Like the Queen Air, the same streets in it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And in our period, we've never had anything except to do federal, right?

Nobody here once should have done it.

Put the whole crew to work.

You can't?

Sapphire and McRaven.

We have a legislative package or something that we can put a name on.

Oh yeah, we're sending down a request to the Congress to have that punished.

Did those just go up?

It's wrapped into a package that's called an act.

It's basically a revision of the Crown Code.

It's so that if it can't be done, they can do it.

We just got our... You don't want to take the Crown.

I don't.

You never know.

You never know about it.

If they start thinking about it, I'm convinced the more I read it, the more I work on it myself.

There's a need.

There's a need for somebody above or between her and me who is a

phrase maker, editor kind of person.

They're just fine where he is.

But, you see, it's a... Matter of fact, John would be well advised to cut his schedule down in a way that he just doesn't know.

I've made sure to re-change John's program since the first time, but my first sample they had him for the

I didn't have a name for cop killers, so I put that in.

I put in a phrase, crime is colorblind.

There are several terms.

I really feel that John has spent more time on this than I have.

Not the substance.

But that isn't really the answer.

But basically, he's not going to do his job either.

He's going to do the substance.

With a good plan.

But you know, if you imagine what Von Noah, good wordsman Smith would have of this sort of thing, you'd get to speak to him.

You wouldn't have to think about what the substances are all about.

I could do it if I had the time, believe me.

If I had a day.

And they've got days to do this kind of thing.

You just sit and think, think and think.

You think of ways to slow down yourself.

I think back, for example, a guy like Hugh Scott, yes, sir, thinks that way.

If he would sit and go over these, he'd keep and see a half a dozen engineers.

I don't think that's the kind of thing.

But I can tell you that

I was, uh, I'm glad we had a captain, but I was going to tell you, I remember that I had a captain, they were the fellas, but they had, this captain is one thing, they had me to hear him read, they had, they all got to hear something, so I said, I didn't need to respond, they just listened, said, listen, and agreed, saying that little, but, you notice how much I,

I put myself out of it by bringing in, by sharpening the ground.

Bill did the job and stuff.

Yeah, but he does a couple of the points.

But then you do a superb job of not saying the stuff, but making the points.

You've got to hit the record.

It's one, two, three, four.

Of course, that's my job.

But there ought to be one man in there that does exactly that.

Now, Scalder was good.

Yeah.

Kelly was a good friend in the fact that 45 seconds was all.

Thank God he said that.

I'm glad that Mr. Johnson got it correct.

Boy, they're so right.

He's so right.

It's all right.

But that was an interesting meeting for those guys.

They all wrote back and wrote to their wives about it.

Well, not just that, but it was also useful.

Oh, sure.

I know.

There was something to it that they...

get something out of it, and do something about it.

Plus, it laid the groundwork for getting other people to follow up.

It had the advantage of, instead of just everybody briefing everybody, then yawning and going back to the offices.

Or like the dog on the show, I call both of you, I call both of you, I call both of you, I call both of you, I call both of you, I call both of you,

You realize that another thing, too, is that it's a lot of me to give them to really tell them how to write the speech.

I mean, check them out, talk a little about this, bring the other, stick the cranny needle in.

Rather than just that, if we had stopped with John's presentation, which was excellent, if we had stopped there, we'd have had the dullest, most deadly goddamn speech you could ever imagine.

You can't do that.

They would have taken those sheets and gone out with the facts and said we can't do this because

They worked up, they, they, out of that came a few little useful type ones that they don't have to have in speeches, but can have sort of in their store and office.

You know, we've doubled the spending for, for human stuff.

Or they're, oh, they're not asking the right question, the right question.

Are you willing to pay more taxes for education?

Are you willing to pay more taxes for this?

Yeah.

Are you willing to have your, your family budget for prices?

But you're putting it back to the family, because everybody knows exactly what you're talking about.

Take a look at the family.

Everybody's for the bicycle.

Everybody has a new bicycle.

They don't want the old man to go have a checkbox.

Or should we quit eating dinners so that we can buy them?

It seems to me, I don't know if you feel this, but it's certainly true.

... ... ... ... ...

It wasn't that bad.

It was just his negative.

A whining, negative.

He always went for the problem.

He said, this is a great thing, and I'm ready to charge, and I hope everybody backs everybody else up.

But he sits there and whines.

God damn it.

He'll never be able to leave.

You can't imagine Conley or Rocky.

They'd all leave.

You cannot.

The guy can't beat up Randy afterwards and say he's removing that.

I didn't hire him to fight off that.

I was the jury with the captain.

They thought, damn, it ain't all that bad.

That's my job.

Instead of the chief critic, you could be the jury.

You're in there.

You ain't public.

You've got to criticize the guy.

You've got to get to the guy that's working on it and say this isn't right.

You can't help it.

Tell me if there's anything new that I need to know about a fight.

The only thing being, and it may come up actually with us, is the whole ambassador question, which we're still at.

In a way, what we've come down to on the crunch now is that we have agreed in our general plan that we were going to go for 40 non-career ambassadors, which would be 35% of the...

... ... ... ...

In a sense, as far as financial security, we took some away.

We took away, we said we wanted two blacks, we said we wanted two lazy people, and we said we wanted a couple of standard actors.

They're non-career.

The way they look at it is either they're a black service or they're not.

Well, that's the State Department.

They give us a black.

And they're, well, they can't do that.

That's what I do with me.

But they're reluctant to appoint any more non-career types than that, than the 40s.

They have career people now assigned to some of the what used to be non-career type posts that are plump, like Iceland and all the Yugoslavia and Venezuela.

And so that opens, in other words, ships to other countries, which are harder to get people for, like Indonesia and Malaysia and Afghanistan, because they don't want to go, and because there are problems there that they can't handle.

So we can't have a problem with that.

Then we have a bunch of holdovers that

And we have some other damn good posts that we've given to, in a sense, career types, although they're partly non-career-like.

We've been to Australia, and Strauss and Pei were people in Belgium, and Irvin is in France, and Morgan in India, and Alton around, and Fulbright around Spain, and Comter in Turkey.

So we get down to a problem.

And what a thing that I want to name some numbers.

If we

I want to cover our whole family, who basically were trying to work out for Stans.

We had 28 contributors who were going to try to place.

And that incident with Stans, that poses a very great problem for Stans, because he has 35 contributors on his priority list.

And he's agreed to defer 10 of them, so that gets us down to 25.

So the next two years, for all these guys that were confused, they're rather complicated.

But then, the next problem is,

We take the 25 out of the 40.

We don't have enough seats.

We only have 19 seats.

We take some out.

We take part of the people.

So we have to see if we're going to do that.

We've got to proceed our guidelines and go to 47, not three or five.

And if we're going to do that, we're going to have to hit Bill.

He doesn't believe the personnel that's going to hold him on.

I'm going to have to say we're going up to 47.

He's been strong.

He resists now.

Otherwise, we've got to go to prioritizing Scandics, which I also think we've got to do.

So, we boil down that there's some of them, like, when all those banks won't do them, Straus and Fay doesn't do us any good, except it's a out of stock to the Conservatives.

I think we ought to tell him he's going to leave, and I think we ought to tell Ribeiro in Spain, who also doesn't do it, Ribeiro should go, that in the fall, we're going to move him out.

That's right, and we'll tell Stans that he's going to get pregnant.

You know, those are two we've got coming up.

Right.

Or just say at the end of the year.

Okay.

At the end of the year, they've got until the end of the year, and they're going to be loose.

Trouser pays to go.

We don't need him at all.

Rivero can go.

He's too old anyway.

Rivero does us some good with the Spanish people.

Not at all.

Not at all, but it does have another benefit.

All right.

All right, good.

We've got...

It's something we've got to keep, because, you know, like Crowe, he's going to change later, and Crowe, some of the other ones, and we've got one, the department, the State Department wants to appoint Thomas Byrne, who is a career officer, as an ambassador.

He has a labor background, and he's strongly pushed by me, so I think we ought to go over that and call that one of our leaders.

Bill on the text gives us a, it doesn't come out of the non-career government, all right?

I think maybe we can push that with a plaque, somewhere in

Yeah.

No, I want you to tell Bill that for an anchor, they're to give us one black man.

I want a career black ambassador.

Is that clear?

Yeah, I think we've got a couple.

Alright, well that's all.

I've got a couple blacks on the cover.

And then we'll sort of fight through the other ones and mark them down.

I think that's all we can do.

And that's

That's where that is.

I have every expectation that the president pays the other one.

Just say at the end of the year, they should be told now that they're going to have to make the one.

Okay.

What?

They'll give you two marks.

And they'll give you three marks.

You asked about Manolo's pay.

Just so you know, he and Pina are both paid out of the resident's appropriation and paid out of government funds.

It's a special appropriation for maintenance of the residences.

Administered by the Interior Department, but it's not out of their budget.

It's a direct appropriation.

They are on civil service, paid grades.

They have, Manolo started in, he was a GS6 level one.

He's moved up to level four automatically as you move up each year.

And that plus he's got the automatic pay increases each year as they go.

As a result, his base pay when he started was $6,300.

He gets room and board.

But he gets paid for a six-day week instead of a five-day week, so he gets a 20% overrun on that.

So his actual pay was $7,500 when he first came in.

That's $7,500.

This shows you what happens to this goddamn government salary.

Without giving him a raise, without changing his status, without doing another goddamn thing except just loving him for it,

He came in at $7,500, and four years later today, he's making $11,300.

He's had almost a $4,000 raise.

Now, Dana came in at $5,000.

She's now making $7,300.

So between the two of them, they're now making almost $19,000 a year, plus room and board, which is awfully good pay.

And they have been good.

They wouldn't be able to do better.

That, but not on the outside of America.

I don't think so.

Not doing domestic work.

They couldn't approach it.

Well, I mean, even, well, suppose they did some other work in the room, or in the practice, they should have had some persons already.

Yeah, but if they were doing domestic work where they get, let's say they were important for you as a private citizen, like they used to in other areas, the maximum that a couple would earn is $1,000 a month.

It's just usually, but in the modern world, it used to be $600.

It's about $1,000 now.

I find that we can't get them up to a point where we can have them.

So you've got to, okay, let her go.

But I think they have gotten enough.

He's gotten $4,000.

I also do sort of a program.

I hear each other.

They cashed it.

They started the two up together at $12,500.

They're now at $18,600.

So they've had a 50% increase.

for four years, and that's, that's, it's been good.

Thank you.

All right.

And the base was higher than where they were.

Of course.

Okay.

Well, all right.

That's fine.

Well, let's show you what this goddamn federal... Hey, there you go.

Mr. President, the other night, when Johnny's mother was ill, I took the liberty of sending a new behalf, a personal message to join my...

I called his brother yesterday to tell him he had sent a message.

to get with Mr. William Downey.

And Mr. William Downey, my office will have his number.

They said they are releasing him at the border of Hong Kong on March 12th.

And the American National Guard is expecting to send his personnel carrying

If you could, don't let it get to Kathy.

That's the word, right?

You should seek to put it on.

I say so.

Too much?

All right.

Just tell Ron to say that you talked, that you were happy to be able to call.

Yeah.

You're not even in a department.

You could come to this.

I think it's a lot of different things.

Tell me about Sunday, any other good stuff?

Give them a raise.

You can't give them an oil raise.

I really can't give this to you.

And they've accepted rules just like this.

Have they?

What do you think that's going to be?

It's going to be like that.

And how's that?

Because they've already leaked it to somebody else.

Well, they've leaked it to somebody else, but they have recommended it to somebody else who we have no knowledge at all of the former president of the government.

Oh, sure.

This is not the first of March.

Let me tell you, Edward Martin did it.

Ha!

God!

Ha!

He's the son of a bitch that I got fired from.

Oh, no.

Edward Martin.

Now, listen.

That's right.

In Latin America, he's also been in Brazil.

Oh, wait.

They're both bad.

I know them aren't.

They're not reported today.

That's right.

Oh, boy.

And also, read the book.

Read that book of the 13 mistakes.

You'll find Edward Martin is involved in that.

And the one in the black mark.

It is going like a hot streak with these guys.

They said if we want to fly our equipment, they're going to be fast for this.

But it is not with the military planes.

They said we can fly military planes with these things.

It's not like we threw it into the wind.

It is, it is, it is, it is.

But the idea, I am reporting the man to Trump.

This is the guy you've never heard of.

You've got no choice.

You can shut up.

I just had a jury there who can't just do take a word.

Who would have said somebody like David Bruce would move the entire channel?

It's got to be Bruce with the other two.

Yeah.

Because that gives statesmen, though, and I'll send an allegation to you.

Well, here we have about 10.

Well, I think we should announce it.

The advantage, however, of this is, Mr. President, this is an incident.

I'm going to do a conference Thursday.

Maybe.

Let me hold that.

And if there's anything else you'd get that I can announce Thursday evening,

Do you think by that time we could have announced the Russians?

No.

Could we announce any of the other states that were above the wall?

We were talking about the Chinese.

Could we get that rid of the Chinese?

Probably not.

And I'm not sure I would think the Chinese went with the Chinese.

But the advantage of this is we would have another big step forward with the Chinese before you announced the Russians, which is much better.

He is old.

He is tired.

The old thing works beautifully, Chris.

The age of the men you're sending, which is sort of a compliment.

The Chinese side, welcome.

I'm sending another message in your name.

I hope you don't mind that.

It's over here.

That's great.

I sent, for example,

I made a personal letter from you to join live.

It says, before we make a formal proposition, we want to make sure that you've accepted them.

And, uh, great.

Very, very great.

And we will open... What you can announce is table groups on Thursday, and an advanced party meeting on Monday, April 30th.

And we can write you a letter

Hello, this is Donnie.

I'm glad you'd be pleased to know that we just got a response from Joe and I.

And your brother will be released Monday.

Right.

So I've got to have another line here.

He's on the way.

It's been a long time.

I'm glad he's coming back.

Yes.

Well, if we get back at this time, it's worth it.

Well, I've got to get out of here.

You'll call us later.

We're in Colorado State.

Yeah.

So then who's going to get the chair?

The kitchen's going to get me.

That'll appeal to people.

Oh, because I didn't announce the president until the other day.

Yeah.

He didn't do all three of those.

Yeah, so it just so happens that he's not out there at all.

Yeah.

No, no.

Well, I would say that it was down to the request of the president.

The president directly asked you online for it because it was very serious and it was

But as we said, because yesterday the governor of Connecticut made a appeal to us, and Mr. Allen said that we talked it down, and it was good, no good, as if we said anything else.

I better get Mester on the phone.

Mester, the governor of Connecticut.

That's correct.

And let him know that it worked.

And so now I'm good at the deal, and he didn't say anything.

We didn't let Ron say.

Ron, Ron, Mr. President, we just had word from the Chinese that they're releasing down here as well for March.

And we would like you to announce it this afternoon.

And they're also releasing the two prisoners, Lynn and

When you announced the downing, you were saying that this was an emergency, that I had to deal with the drop in and the, uh, with the illness of this mother.

Why was that?

That was such a bad thing.

Okay.

Well, why don't you?

I think you should have known.

We've never done that.

We're not going to do that.

The other thing is I was sinking Henry for eight years.

The state department was suffering and sucking and screwing around, trying to get this down into the relation for however long they've been there.

And with Henry in Warsaw, I had a client, Teddy Kennedy, who was writing letters,

That happened.

We did.

That's the point.

We did it in the U.S. side, quietly.

Right.

We could have grandstanded it through a very, well, we had phone calls from Mexico, we had phone calls from Canada yesterday, which we didn't say.

Don't tell them about it anyway.

No, but I mean, we could have had to sing loud their grandstanding, especially at the telegram Wednesday night.

And we would have got word.

We, uh...

Never announced to anybody other than the Chinese to do it on their own.

Henry, now here's a place where your background can be effective, too.

You might say to...

I would go to the...

about the whiskey, you know, even a Billy Smith one, you can sell a Smith, and then for tomorrow morning's paper, in this case, I do the Times.

There you go.

That screws the post on everybody else.

You can't see the Smith, you know, when I do it for the DM papers.

A little background, but it's important.

The Times is going to get a bigger play than they probably also do for the Times.

Now, who is it?

I called Daniel on it then.

And you can say that Daniel, the president, has told you how to handle the story of this background.

We have discussed it and so forth.

And we have put this out there.

We sent a message.

I sent a personal message.

He said nothing about it.

We got the reply.

How does that sound?

And it's just a small tip of the Daniel of London.

What?

The other thing I'm going to say is that what is the purpose of our meeting at 4 o'clock in the morning?

Oh, it's fine.

Oh, we could.

He shouldn't incidentally say that we have an obligation to give it.

He said a commitment, which I wouldn't have said that either.

I've never said it.

I know that I never used the word commitment.

I said that we will do it and so forth and so on.

It's in our interest.

I get it with him.

He can't get around it.

We have no commitment to it.

that you have really well decided to clean up all of that new contract.

But what they want to do is to release a million dollars to Pakistan and 14 million of military equipment to India, plus eight, seven million.

So what I think we should do is to release the armored personnel, what we've got here is the armored personnel carrier, spare parts, plus the stuff they had over here for example, about 30

I'm just going to do it that way and tell the Indians that we're doing all this.

Let me ask you a couple of things.

What about the, you're going to volunteer with Bay Packers for the contract.

That's done.

I mean, I don't know whether to expect that, but the other thing is that the reason I overruled the business of keeping a delegation of 1,000 and 10, I don't know where they're going to go.

Again, I believe you better get them all on.

Don't send the lady over there.

I personally think that the guy would like to start eating.

He has sent you letters.

I sent 500.

I think I'll reduce it to 100.

You know what I mean?

Do you agree?

Yes, absolutely.

Yes, sir.

The memorandum was to send the lady back so that he could say goodbye.

And they're really screw-up.

How about you send them home?

I'd like to hit them, but just keep them here.

Do you want to go back over there?

He's not going back over there.

I mean, they are.

I mean, he's not called on other governments to declare war on Ukraine.

It's about the usefulness of stuff they've done.

Of course, the guy's going to report it.

Really?

Okay, everybody has a night, so I'll get around to it.

It's always there.

What are we going to announce about the Chinese?

They're drooling.

Okay, we'll get you a nice little thing to be able to eat.

Good.

Why good?

Here, look, Henry.

It looks as if all of that came as a result of this.

Well, we have to get our strategy ready.

You've got to have the right piece in a simple way.

You can't go banging around the country.

You have to try arguing about individual decodes and stuff like that.

They are wanting the right thing.

They're getting a plant growing out of that thing.

I'm sure you know.

It was all right, but I had no choice.

She had to sit down.

You should know, with that girl coming aboard, you should know who she is.

It would be bad for her if she's going to go out as a spokesman and say, well, I've never met the president, but I'm sure he's going to.

I think that's one thing.

But I can't imagine the point, you know, that we're doing it for him.

We never did for the other one.

We didn't ask for that.

That was my idea.

But we're doing it all the time.

He is giving him for all those things.

And all the water went right on his head.

You won't get out anything you want out of him.

What he's trying to do is handle the dust out of him.

What I know is, I just don't want him to get burned.

I'm trying to keep him clean.

I don't know what I mean.

Sometimes we ought to use a Mitchell on some of those people.

I want you to write that.

I mean, somebody's got to write that.

The real problem with Carter is not only Wilson, but it's his staff.

It's always the staff.

He's got a lot of hangers on him there.

It's like any other staff.

I would guess in this one, it may very well be more the staff than Bob.

Because Bob knows where he stands.

He's done it.

He's done what he does.

But the staff is doing enough for their own life.

You shouldn't wait for me.

I should go out and get it.

I'm going to knock, knock, knock on the door.

I'm going to knock on the door.

He didn't get to the White House that night, but I was glad to go to the campaign.

Oh, that's right.

I was glad to go to the campaign, because I have gone to the campaign, which I'll be going to.

So I'm going to stay at the White House.

I wrote something, right?

Yeah, please.

I'm going to break it down.

He's done a terrific job of it.

Saturday, you've got to do the... You've got to do the shamrock.

You've got to do...

Hello.

Hi, Tom.

How are you?

Thank you.

Be pleased to know I sent a wire and a cable on my own to Joe and Molly Winstead about Downey telling him about the sickness of his mother and personally asking him to hear and appreciate more of what happened.

He responded in record time.

Downey's got to be released one day.

And I called his brother and told him.

And I just took him a minute ago.

And I'm not calling Teddy Kennedy, if you don't mind.

But I am calling him.

And then also, actually, they're going to release the two flyers they hold on Wednesday.

So China's not true, totally.

Yeah?

Okay, we'll have a good time up there.

And we appreciate all your strong support.

I just hope it doesn't hurt you.

I said we appreciate your strong support and I just hope it doesn't hurt you.

Okay.

Yes, I understand.

He'll be announced.

Well, just say Monday, probably Monday morning.

Yeah.

Anybody in China, of course.

That's all gone.

It'll be announced here.

You call your office right away or the press will have it for you.

Okay.

I was going to say, I don't want to go off and talk.

If I want to spurt, spurt, quack, quack, I've got to get out and say something about the budget, the price, and so forth.

You know, if you're going to see it from the cabinet meeting, or if you're going to make this a terribly important plan, I don't know.

Jeremy, it's important to get a plan.

It's also important to get some gun work done.

You can argue that the president ought to be out in front.

I wonder about it, too.

They don't think you ought to fly right in the face.

They always want me to go off into the blocking.

I think they ought to do the blocking, and then you ought to come through.

I think so, too.

I was going to say on that score, I thought it was right to do the same, but you didn't want to.

I know that most of the people want me to just get out there.

I think you want to be a part of that.

I've said it time and time again.

I've said it to press conferences.

I've made about eight radio speeches on that.

I've said it every damn time.

And you'll say it again on Thursday.

I've said it every damn speech that I've had.

Every time I meet with the Congressmen and Senators, I get my whole talk on that.

So, you know, we can get too caught.

It's adequate in some areas, but we don't have what you need.

How about the Rudy thing, the thing on the outside?

You've got to be able to talk to Chuck Colson.

This is the boat.