Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 428 › Conversation 428-028
Nixon, Haldeman & Ehrlichman on Watergate scandal and Obstruction of justice
Saturday, April 14, 1973 · 5:15 PM–6:45 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 57 min
AI Summary
President Nixon met with H.R. Haldeman and John Ehrlichman to discuss the escalating legal and political fallout surrounding the Watergate scandal. The participants weighed the risks of ongoing investigations, particularly focusing on potential obstruction of justice charges against key figures like John Mitchell and the strategy of preempting further disclosures by "beating them to the punch." Nixon expressed urgency regarding the need to conclude the scandal quickly to prevent it from dominating his administration, contemplating potential resignations and the necessity of managing the public narrative.
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Transcript (AI-generated)
This transcript is incomplete. The transcription skipped stretches of speech — roughly 4 minutes of this recording (about 6% of it) is represented by only a few words. Listen to the audio rather than relying on the text below; a corrected transcript is queued.
This transcript was generated automatically by AI (WhisperX) and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Names and numbers are often wrong; speakers are not identified. Do not cite it as authoritative — verify against the audio and the finding aid.
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Thank you.
who were nervous about it.
He was very strong.
Yes, sir.
There was no power from strong.
That is, he informed strong that he was going to go ahead with the so-called living.
I read his non-response as okay from ironic.
I am not able to say in my own knowledge that there was any knowledge in him.
Around the end of March, Marty, excuse me, Bruder and LaRue went to keep this game where John is.
In all honesty, this was a kind of a non-decision.
We've got a synopsis of the law.
I've got the only copy.
I'm a guru.
I've got the only copy of the synopsis.
We thought there were a lot of them.
I'm going to skip back a little bit and then I'll come back to Mitchell.
Are you sure you think that went as strong as that?
In March, about the time of the meeting down at the theater stand, the president of the Bruder's wife, I think the pastor of the stands, LaRue approached the Bruder and said, we need that operation.
What they were getting was mostly this fellow, Oliver, coming in real quick, you know, after he'd won a couple of assignations.
And they were climbing and discussing their young leaders now.
Liddy was badly embarrassed by the chewing out of John.
And as we again met in the meeting, we said to John, Mr. Mitchell, I'll take care of it.
And we all did the same.
So the next week, it was entirely on Liddy's own most part.
The word says, neither of us shall know the word of the new world.
one meeting is our meeting and the second meeting
indicated that he was implicated only by association with other people.
But the attorney gave me his private evaluation that that was a little public on the part of the U.S. attorney.
Reasoner, Kyle Moore.
Kyle Moore is somebody on the staff who was at the committee.
And we were constantly meeting on what are called the Saturday events.
The Saturday events are the events that took place the day after the murder.
And we're ready to go.
I have the attorney general of the United States sitting at home waiting to go to his dinner party.
I really don't have anything to add, but I did want him to be aware of the fact
That's why he's murdering that person.
uh... uh...
I was just a little late in talking to him further because he had just come back.
After I had completed, well, I might say I also talked to a couple of other people who were not here just to pass the word to encourage them to testify if the only reason they were not testifying was
in the United States.
Thank you.
Don't wear a door.
Well, I just wanted you to have a nice time.
me to give you anything additional on Monday.
Attorney said they analyzed it very carefully and they could see no advantage to waiting and every advantage to getting in time.
I've got very bright guys.
I've got their names over there, but I can't say they're not.
They may have the hot after on this connection with their premise.
Apparently, it's a part of their lawyers that everything.
Therefore, we're going to try to get him to come in and live and lay above on the coast.
You can hear me.
I heard that.
Thank you.
I want to say that.
Thank you for that.
Thank you.
who I think he may want to, and if he does want to, I think he should.
Thank you.
saying the wrong place doesn't make it.
What do you do about it?
Right.
Right.
I guess that's the big question.
It's about the whole of the statement you made now.
... ... ... ... ... ...
but it's a disaster for me to be with the front.
They're not about to be out front.
The point is, if you get me that far out front before this hits, and then this hits, it puts me in the way with it, is what they would argue.
They're going to move out freely.
They can run around the other way and attack.
You can just watch their direction.
I didn't even ask you.
So they went live, that's the patient for eight months, and all of a sudden they were a paper craft that couldn't enjoy it.
Why don't you make the deal on Monday for this?
Just so that we keep some honor.
We'll take all the people, any members of the White House that have the privilege to say with respect to the privilege, with reserve,
Uh, to, uh, to be, uh, uh, to be decided in the second section of that document.
My, my position would be that they don't get to decide.
Oh, I get it.
They're going to be taken to the witness like that.
You heard it.
Don't answer it.
I have gone into that in great detail earlier.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
i'm just thinking that on this one it appeared to be forthcoming and i wouldn't i wouldn't let the dean be uh
I just think that that's one move we can make now at the current time.
I've gotten to just go, and I've been a proponent of the idea that, well, by a good headline for a day, I'd be back later on.
But we're going to get beat around the head and shoulders.
Let's face it, we're going to get it to the grand jury in seconds.
then they'll say, Christ, Mr. President, what the hell are you gonna continue to hold?
Beat him to the punch.
I think we've got to do that.
I'm just dealing with one of those things.
I'm not announcing, but I may do it tomorrow night.
Should we do that?
Yeah, I can't wait to do that.
If we were to do it, I'd let you know.
I mean, excuse me.
I can't wait.
John.
Yeah.
Thank you very much.
Sure was.
Oh, great, great.
Okay.
We'll have a wonderful time and I'll see you there.
See you when you get back.
They sure as hell can.
Oh, I'll say that's because it involves many people.
They may recess for a couple of weeks.
Where on earth do you have a, what are the ways that we've got them?
I'm here.
So you're not going to do it because of the situation?
If the situation is going to get worse, then maybe you have to do something.
It's going to get better.
I think it's very close to that right now.
it's not going to satisfy them this pretty much establishes the water and then you say you need some of them like gold water the people who want this are going to you've got to look at the other possible boxes to say well thank god it all has been cleared up now let's get all this other treatment uh some of it is now clear the white house wasn't involved thank god they weren't and where the president was
And then everybody will do well on that.
We'll accept that.
We've got a fair chance of being on that.
A fair chance of coming on that.
A fair chance.
Please spotlight it as the billable court in the White House and the committee.
And the question will be, what's at the other end of those billable courts?
Because you don't want it.
You don't think there's much... No, he's high on it.
The unbelievableness of it is being answered by this.
There's somebody higher than Gordon Litt who had to agree to spend a quarter of the money.
Now you've got that somebody.
Now that you've got somebody who was, you've got a believable case where you can now say, well, so there was some other stuff going on that this was where the problem was.
There's some people who step up and step from their thing.
Hold on.
No.
Ziegler, Moore, Kissinger, it was very strong that that's what I should do.
I'm the last guy to decide.
Yeah, which is right.
What do you think, John?
John thinks that's right.
It will come out right after that in several other republics.
Now, as I say, I haven't heard Henry's, because I don't know if I've heard other republics come out after that and say all of them should decide.
All of them.
It's a great matter.
Either I do have to resign, or I defend, or you defend it.
I don't think you can ignore it.
If I've done that, you need to go, you've got to then make the judgment that that was sufficient to cause me to resign, or what?
That's the first question, and the third question.
I don't know if they should wait for it.
He answered the question.
They're all going to retire me.
Yeah, they're going to retire me the next day.
The next year, this is very remote, very behind.
before they've established that a crime was committed.
I would not be as strong if you're getting it out of your sector if you're getting pedestal incriminations and the fact that that may be.
Is that a really crunchy decision?
Which is whether you both can resign or whether you don't.
On the basis of his implication, which is part of what he's transferring out of the White House, that's what I'm talking about.
He's got a sort of hypothesis that he's developing in our conversation that spurring him to come back almost is actionable.
As a matter of fact, I didn't refer him to Congress.
He came to me and said, may I go to Congress?
for the purpose of getting her to raise some money, for the purpose of paying for the dividends, for the purpose of keeping them cold on the reservation, right?
Well, I'm not so sure that makes
but then they would go out and sell their stories to Saturday Night Magazine members.
And we were not very concerned about that.
So I was concerned about that.
They clearly wanted to do it kind of like a look on author type.
And it would be fun to do that.
At that time, no one knew who was who wasn't doing it.
I said that to John, and John didn't agree with me.
I just, you know, you don't have to get to that point.
I guess, but let me say, let's speak on what you do.
My view is, though, I don't have the odds on it.
... ... ... ... ... ...
that just get an answer, get it out of the way.
We don't want to talk about it.
We don't care.
It's really such a crappy thing.
You'll come in and it's all your money.
You like it, you copy it.
And they start bringing in all these people from around the country.
What they did or were victims or influence.
It'll be like a copy of something.
So it's not heavy.
It's not heavy at all.
let me finish my analysis
I'll come back to it.
You've got to miss it the first time.
You've got a couple others.
You've got to face that.
You might want to tie it to a resignation at the time I do it.
On the basis that you're wrong.
You're going to say, I have no problem with it.
But I'm also not going to have trouble with all this stuff now.
Thank you.
With an attorney here in the living room.
I kind of feel
And I think with that being the case, the dean should not wait for me.
I don't need a draft.
It's really pretty soft.
It's a good thing for me.
I think I have the phone.
Yeah.
And what would you say to the president who's directed this?
I didn't watch it.
It will appear.
I'm not going to tell him.
I don't think that's needed tomorrow.
I think I could go out and meet with everyone and cut the deal.
And then we can say, well, there isn't much to compromise.
We can say, well, we're going to compromise.
They won't be able to go on being those who mean exactly the same.
It's very nice to talk about it.
How does that sound to you, Bob?
or keep the animals a little cool for a while.
It's not liberal.
I don't want that, you can pay it back.
The negotiations commenced in two weeks ago, or three weeks ago, or I don't know.
It's absolutely disgusting.
You put out my statement at the same time?
You got to do that.
When?
When did you put my statement out on Wednesday?
How's that?
I got to put your statement on Wednesday.
Right on the ends of the truck.
I put yours off right with it.
In your case, it's not .
In your case, it's trauma.
... ... ... ...
A murderer is, you've got to remember, you've got to be a witness.
And they're going to say, who's going to lie?
I mean, here's a guy that has a record of lying.
He lied at this time.
They're going to do it again.
They're going to do it again.
They're going to do it again.
We can produce people around here who can give you five different stories of a murderer.
What do you think Mr. Colson is going to do about this?
You're not going to tell me.
Mr. Colson is undoubtedly sending all kinds of signals to Mr. Hunt.
I'm not charging this to Mr. Cokerfield.
I think this is an unfortunate thing.
He's very lucky to have a large type of crowd.
He says that the New York Times has a story that he was here for a meeting with me.
Well, you owe me a little rest.
Yes.
We're in the White House.
No rest.
You know what?
Sooner than you think.
Let me tell you, John, the thing about all of this that's concerning me is dragging the goddamn out thing out.
Dragging it out and having it be the only issue in town.
Now, the thing to do now is to have the son of a bitch done, and cite Mitchell and all the rest, and I'll be off.
Horrible two weeks, this terrible, terrible scandal, worse than Peapod film and so forth.
And it doesn't have anything to do with who you find out.
It isn't as bad as it is.
I mean, good God, there's no banality involved in it.
There's no leprosy or any of that sort of thing.
Nobody got any favors.
And you know what I mean.
The bad part of it is the fact that the attorney general and the obstruction of justice thing, which appears to be, and yet, they ought to get a fighting position.
I don't know.
NARA Description
On April 14, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, H. R. ("Bob") Haldeman, John D. Ehrlichman, White House operator, Richard G. Kleindienst, and Julie Nixon Eisenhower met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:15 pm to 6:45 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 428-028 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 428-28
Date: April 14, 1973
Time: 5:15 pm - 6:45 p.m.
Location: Executive Office Building
The President met with H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and John D. Ehrlichman.
-35-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Conversation No. 428-28 (cont’d)
******************************************************************************
[Begin segment reviewed under deed of gift]
President’s schedule
-White House Correspondents Dinner
-Formal clothing
-Preparation
Ehrlichman talked with an unknown person at 5:15 pm.
[Conversation No. 428-28A]
[Begin telephone conversation]
Evening clothes
-Delivery from home to White House
[End segment reviewed under deed of gift]
******************************************************************************
Ronald L. Ziegler and Richard A. Moore
[End telephone conversation]
[A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was initially prepared for the
Watergate Special Prosecution Force (WSPF) and can be found in Record Group (RG) 460, Box
174, pages 1-51 and in United States v. Mitchell, et al., Exhibit 20, pages 1-14, 40-42, and 49-52.
The Nixon Presidential Materials Staff reviewed the transcript and made changes as necessary.
This transcript has been reviewed under the provisions of the Presidential Recordings and
Materials Preservation Act of 1974 (PRMPA). The National Archives does not guarantee its
accuracy.]
[A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was also prepared Richard Nixon’s
Special White House Counsel for Watergate Matters and submitted to the Committee on the
Judiciary of the House of Representatives. This transcript can be found in Submission of
Recorded Presidential Conversations (SRPC), pages 582-628 (1-47). Please refer to the RG 460
-36-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Conversation No. 428-28 (cont’d)
transcript.]
[Begin transcribed portion]
John D. Ehrlichman talked with the White House operator at an unknown time between 5:15 pm
and 6:45 pm during the transcribed portion.
[Conversation No. 428-23B]
[Begin telephone conversation]
[See Conversation No. 38-30]
[End telephone conversation]
Ehrlichman talked with Richard Kleindienst at an unknown time between 5:15 pm and 6:45 pm
during the transcribed portion.
[Conversation No. 428-28C]
[Begin telephone conversation]
[See Conversation No. 38-31]
[End telephone conversation]
[The President talked with Julie Nixon Eisenhower between 6:08 pm and 6:09 pm during the
transcribed portion.
[Conversation No. 428-28D]
[Begin telephone conversation]
[See Conversation No. 38-32]
[End telephone conversation]
-37-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Conversation No. 428-28 (cont’d)
[End transcribed portion]Also recorded on April 14, 1973
- 038-028 3:55 PM · 16 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 3:55 pm and 4:58 pm.
- 038-029 4:58 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon talked on the telephone from 4:58 pm to 4:59 pm.
- 428-027 4:58 PM · 50 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Thelma C. ("Pat") (Ryan) Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 4:58 pm to 4:59 pm.
- 038-030 5:15 PM · 15 sec — John D. Ehrlichman and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:15 pm and 6:08 pm.
- 038-031 5:15 PM · 12 min — John D. Ehrlichman and Richard G. Kleindienst talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:15 pm and 6:08 pm.
- 038-032 6:08 PM · 49 sec — Julie Nixon Eisenhower and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone from 6:08 pm to 6:09 pm.
- 428-029 6:45 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and Manolo Sanchez met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 6:45 pm and 8:11 pm.
- 428-030 6:45 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and unknown person(s) met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 6:45 pm and 8:11 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 428-028, April 14, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/428-028 (accessed October 5, 2026).