Conversation 429-003

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Matt.

Mr. President.

Yeah.

I don't know if you've been seeing this, but... Yeah.

I don't know if you've been seeing this, but... Yeah, I heard it on...

When he did it, I heard it.

I think it was the right... Yeah.

After I talked to him, I was saying that there was a back bubble.

I think there was a back bubble.

I think that

I believe that a lot of people in government deserve the same consideration of a contestant as anybody else.

I stand right.

Not anymore, but just as much.

And the idea that a top person in government is, you know, it isn't quite beyond the approach, you know.

A person can be beyond the approach.

Take me.

I should have been fired many times because I've been so heavily criticized and I've crossed many lines with the legislature.

Well, as a matter of fact, it's a little bit the same attitude that, uh, which is playing out of our view of the problem.

Right.

If there's a judge now, he should get off.

Well, that was really what he said.

I think the people will probably, I feel that with you, that you are not going to choose a electoral party.

The President just fired a whole White House back.

But I think the people...

I don't know if I'm wrong.

I think they like a man to stand up and not to condemn people before they're proven guilty.

I don't know.

And I heard one of Peterson say, I don't think he has any other evidence except what's in that testimony.

Because if he doesn't, what does he do?

You know, he's proud and he's hearty.

They set the tab red and now recollect.

He didn't get that out of them.

They put that in the strike.

because he was told it was political material that had to do with Watergate.

And he says, well, I'm just not struggling.

And I was listening to him, and I said, that's an unbelievable story.

And I looked at him, and I was like, hell no.

It makes great sense, man.

He just didn't give a damn.

Early months.

And into that, I put it hard, it appears, to use your language.

They were trying to kill him.

They were trying to break him.

That's what they were doing.

So we're strong.

We're trying to break him.

We're telling him, you're going to be a witness.

You're a witness.

And I told him, I said, tell him to be a witness, because that's the deal.

Tell him to be a witness.

And that's why I put him in that statement.

I told him, that's the problem.

I said, look, I've talked to Rodney.

I said, we have a great problem in giving him to the president's council.

He said, but suppose that it's being testified that we need to get all the money right.

Should we do that?

I said, no, not that you have corroboration.

Well, Jim, what you're doing with special ethics like that, if you say to a fellow, well, you've got to, you've added it to the law, you've got to be indicted, well, consider the health you've given us when it comes to a question of sentence.

In other words, you hold out the first thing you leave and say, but how could you give a hundred...

But I'm the president's counsel.

Trouble, really?

Well, he's involved.

He is the medicine boss.

Do you know?

Of course, if you gave him immunity...

But I said, I don't think you know what I said, but I don't think, I think they're right.

Well, they're going to submit the other way, the way to deal with these people, the U.S. attorneys.

But Peterson said he agreed with that.

He was trying to convince the U.S. attorneys that they were hot on trying to get away with the argument.

They wanted to get all of it early.

Frankly, I said, and then, and then, and then,

and hop out of there and just walk into their area.

And we'd whack them and fish them and say, well, what face of the deer do we have in mind by putting up these statements?

They might have a burger and hold it in court and make a deal with the computer, but they won't.

The equations of ridiculousness is built.

They're going to put up a statement in which they will name other than what they call non-emphatic.

And I said, and then they said, all of them will not be of that list.

And then they said, I said, well, what are you saying?

I said, well, we just thought we were giving you an option that you could move ahead of it.

I think they're on the list.

If I let them go, they're on the list anyway.

I heard they were going to be on the list, and I fired them anyway.

Then folks said, we're not prosecuting.

That's my problem.

We're not prosecuting my two top people.

I let them go.

I don't think that makes sense at all.

Or do you agree?

I missed something here.

What's the difference here?

If I had all of them and they didn't have them on the list, they will call for their answer and then indict them if they get information.

Jesus Christ.

Well, you see, Mr. President, the only reason the judge questions the defendant when there's a plea of guilty is to make sure that

pleading voluntarily, and that he knows the nature of his pleading.

Right, right.

The correctness of his pleading.

Well, asking about who else was involved.

Exactly.

It seems to me that if he's doing that, I didn't realize that that was important.

Right.

Because that, that's the progression of the grand jury process.

The whole idea of the grand jury process is

Once they're indicted, then they're presumed to be innocent.

Then they go to trial.

And the reason they haven't been judged this evening is so that they don't have innocent names.

And then they do this, and then they go to trial.

But I'll tell you, let me put it this way.

It's all going to be terrible.

It's going to be awful.

Frankly, I think it's going to be easy.

I don't think it's going to help him.

If I let him go, I don't think he's going to trust me.

I know I don't have any money.

But you agree with me that that's what's up.

But you know, I am concerned about my people.

I know that all of them are not guilty about that.

And you know what I mean.

It's only tangential defense.

It's tangential.

Sure, they were raised by these kind of defense.

But here they were pushing the campaign.

How'd you leave it with Peterson?

I don't know what it is.

I think from now on you better let him.

I don't know which I am, but I left with a piece.

He's going to report to me.

I said, if you could ask for Robert in testimony, I'd like to know.

I think that's it.

Sure.

And if I get some Robert in testimony, I'd like to warn him.

I can call him and say, look, I found this out, and I've got information.

Thank you.

Therefore, you ought to say what you should.

That's all I said.

But I've got to talk to him.

After all, I'm the president of the government.

I'm the president of the government.

And I must say, he got to the bottom of it.

And he said, there's a possible situation of the actor path.

The individuals who the purpose was to keep people talking.

In court, in court, not all, apparently it's, if you want to keep, but he said anyway, he said that's the problem.

It's over with now.

You know, I started growing up, I mean, I don't, you know, I'm thinking of all of these kids, early, at the end of the year.

I'll tell you what, if they aren't convicted, they'll come out.

All the ridges are in charge.

Everybody's going to be checked.

This will be in better respect than here, I think.

I think so.

Well, the first one we did,

Terrible to be terrible.

That's it.

No doubt about that.

And it, well, it has so many little ramifications in the back of the story.

But when it's all diminished, what are they?

When many of them are, you know, sharing a night's mood.

We're going to get on with that.

We're going to see how the people of the country are doing.

We may find they do what the President is doing the best they can.

If I want to cover up, they probably make the President can't cover up.

If I want to do it, I shouldn't.

I'm very well aware of it.

We'll see if we can do it again.

We'll see what the President is doing.

Many of these times, they're giving me pictures of what it really is.

It's not to be a foe.

They have to deal with being a foe.

They have to make a deal.

I don't think of being.

I just say, look, son, you're a guy.

You're not being wrong.

You're right.

You're a Jew.

You're a father.

You're a clever guy.

You're a good son.

My view of that is when you're trying to look at the picture, you don't consider it as an action, you consider it as a criminal act.

You know, we survived for a time on the conduct of this investigation.

I'm not saying that we won't be charged here.

I'm not sure.

God damn it, why didn't you tell me earlier?

I'm not sure.

You know, why didn't you tell me earlier?

And once it did happen, not cutting it off right then, stepping forward and saying, I got this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this,

I'd rather have a pair of glasses than any other.

So that's the way it's supposed to be.

It's a system.

The system is the way it is.

It shows the system works so it doesn't.

I had computers.

I had all the different subjects.

I had money.

I had money to pay.

I'd find it out and I'd share it.

I'd look at the system.

I'd finish most of it.

I'd write it down before.

He was suspicious it was the Cobra.

That's right.

He was trying to put pressure on us.

not only to confess about themselves, but about others.

That's what, of course, they say to the jurors.

It's not that the jury doesn't confess, but what about others?

But what I mean is, here, you've got a willing witness.

Before, he was doing it to reluctant defendants.

Here, you've got a willing, as I understand it, a willing witness.

A will testimony.

He's been working with the prosecutor, and he was going to steal that will before he ran to him, and why the hell did he do that?

That's what I'm talking about.

That's the...

That's a nice little back up for you.

It hasn't been a really good one all right now.

I don't have one, and I don't have one.

But it's true.

The story of the radio.

The president finally said something about what I think is going to be a partial reaction.

I don't know.

I'm not taking any comfort out of it because of the period of time it's going to be made.

Actually, it's quite possible.

He doesn't have enough to say.

He's doing enough to send them, in order to get them to get to Constantinople.

So they're not called in early.

They're called to wait until their names are publicly brought in.

He said he didn't get a lot of notice on that, but I think that there was probably some harm in letting them get on the road.

But I'm glad to hear that.

I'm glad that he got on the road in order to get to Constantinople.

Your immediate reaction to all this?

My reaction is I don't understand.

What should I do?

What the hell?

No matter what the computer is supposed to do, I don't.

It seems to me that they ought to then

He also, you know, if you would wait until their names were mentioned, that's the whole point, you know.

I don't see, on what basis can you do it, Al?

In the case of, well, on this basis, I'm going to say that the president had knowledge of U.S. attorneys and charges that they made against him.

But on the other side, I nailed him hard.

I said, now that's, I said, Roger, you know, I read this all day long.

Is there a corroboration?

He says, I agree.

But he wants me to sack him.

He likes it wrong.

He doesn't have the idea for a guy that's supposed to have all the rights against him to go out and do it.

I'd rather make him say this.

I've got to live on myself.

I don't want to do it.

That's unfair.

The other thing, I'm trying to think of their side.

If they're going to get some advantage here, any advantage by not thereby being named in this statement.

And then, of course, not even being indicted.

Maybe that's something.

They, on the other hand, they're going to be called.

They'll be indicted in total time.

Although, I guess we're curious about that.

When you have a case that's serious, and you have people who are on the periphery, and you want to name them, in order to have them available as a witness, to name them as a corporate spirit without a study

But for the prominent person, she's got to have been with the prominent person, and that's just as bad as being in front of him.

Why can't you clear your name?

What can't clear your name?

In other words, if you have made it, then you have the opportunity to clear the record.

My kid, I'm not really gonna protect him, because I don't think probably the final analysis could be indictable.

But I'm not sure he's indicted.

I'm not sure he's indicted, but he's not being too close to the money.

He's never been spanked.

But he's never explained it to people.

He's got that money back there for him.

He's going to come and buy it, actually.

He's going to buy it.

Dean.

He's going to be feeding it to the Maddox.

Why don't we do this event tomorrow?

You don't have chances to simulate it.

If you're going to have 12 hours,

I would like for you to put your mind to the problem, if you would.

Because I don't even think we've got the sort of help.

We haven't helped the bodies down there.

They're not as high as I heard them.

Give us a little time to see how you think.

He always had a suspicion that you were going to be on that, and he did that.

Oh.

But that he probably didn't know about you.

You know what I mean?

I thought, I thought, in the beginning I thought this was a good line, and I thought Mitchell probably

He kind of made it well and said, oh yeah, tell me about it, go ahead and do it.

But I'm not surprised about you, because I didn't think so.

My name claims Peter had the good time to go ahead, which I'm not.

I went through that, and David did, in terms of the obstruction of justice.

That's all.

He's not going along with the first part.

I think he's going to have the same position if he's got two people he's kind of bugging with Dean and Ruto.

And he doesn't say he's got the written statements in the book.

I think what he's done is he's sat down with A3.

I think they're all involved with A3.

With an agreement, certainly.

I would think that the one fellow setting off

worse than he is.

So I think your point is, you know, like, you know, he appears to be out to make a living.

He was pretty out to save a life.

Well, he was not doing this matter.

I'm sure he hadn't the whole time.

I was kind of directing back when I started my presentation.

Like, I saw him being at least, you know, like David, who was right for some of the big jobs that we put on the stage.

So I must say, I've done everything I can to get at the bottom of it, as you can see.

I said, John, let it all hang out.

Find out how to deal with this.

We're not going to be living with a death of a thousand.

That's exactly what we've done.

So we've done this since the time of the court.

but there's enough there that would anybody notice that by the god there's something wrong you know that's why i had to move i have at least not because it's good i thought it was taken to be revealed i had been working on the subject so what are we doing why don't we why don't we uh

It's very damn difficult for anybody else who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.

For example, I don't really know what the facts are.

I'm not sure that I know either.

So it's very difficult for others to do just one test, which is superficial.

And those misplaced fellows and girls are always looking at each other's particular

He's also kind of a fellow, I mean, he isn't, he isn't shaken down, he isn't a fellow, he's just a member of the committee.

He's just, you know, he's taking over.

He's ready to fight over it, and that's why he's gonna fight this credit team, and this credit team, the prosecutors, you know, uh, he's gonna have to fight, I don't know, he's gonna have to have a little fight with the administration, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, he's gonna have to, you know, he's gonna, you know, he's gonna be pissed off.

I felt expected to go to the FBI to pick up this very goddamn stuff.

You can put it in your safe and say that it's unrelated to the investigation, but burning it makes you look like a common crook.

We're working as hard as we can.

I was thinking of Bill.

I don't know.

Irish.

He's finishing the Ellsberg case.

He's received plaudits for being as hysteric as he can.

I just thank God that he's a juror.

He's a lawyer.

I think he's got a hundred questions.

I mean, he has an investigative experience.

He's a great guy.

He's a lawyer.

He's got a hundred votes.

I mean, he's a lawyer.

He has to do it.

Why did you bribe me?

Uh,

I just think it's better than I thought.

They were good.

Let me say, I'm so glad to have somebody to talk to.

My only resolution is to go to trial.

He's got a heart problem and all that.

You don't need trial.

We need brains right now.

I only know the cast of characters.

He helped figures, he knows Lanzer, he knows all these people.

He already knows all the people we don't like.

I mean, he started out that way.

That's what we said to him.

Well, I'm glad, because I was worried about the truth.

Bill brought it into that.

I don't have any money to talk to Dr. Peterson.

That's done.

Except, except suck all the information out.

Wilson said to us, just beware of Peterson, he talks.

He said, he cited the case that he had, that Pearson was involved in.

That's going to be a one-goal meeting with him.

This is every point he makes to the company by the story.

That's probably fine.

Well, that may be all I'll do with Pearson.

He said that he'd give me 12-hour notice with regard to the group.

I think I want that.

Bill doesn't know what the hell that, how that will do.

Well, let me tell you what that is.

Wilson explained that to us, too.

He said that where a man goes in on an information and police guilt, in this district, he was customary for the judge to interrogate him if he wishes to, and also for there to be filed a statement of the case in the nature of information.

Now, the information was civil file instead of indictment.

Names, co-conspirators in the conspiracy charge,

who are not indicted.

That does not mean that you won't be indicted later.

But it means for the purpose of that information, which is then filed, you are not indicted.

And so this is a list of people who, in a description of a conspiracy pattern, a co-conspirator, his analysis of the pros and cons of this are,

that for the prosecutor to come forward and say, if you'll suspend these birds, I will name them in the list of co-conspirators, gets the prosecutor off a difficult political hook.

Because when the judge asks, were there any other co-conspirators, and so on, he said, well, they've already been suspended.

But the man may be indicted.

We reserve a right to indictment, but we're going to have one for the grand jury, so it isn't going to help.

But, well, it doesn't come up on us.

It doesn't come up either with his problem.

On the other hand, he said there's a certain negative in it from a political standpoint for the administration.

In fact, the question will arise, well, why weren't their names on there if they're COVID spirits?

Somebody's covered up.

That's worse than putting them on the ice.

And so the information is filed by the prosecutor himself without a grand jury action.

If the prosecutor names what type of person it's convicted of, particularly if it's a public mind, what would be the public's assessment?

That's what most would say.

.

If this is a perception, I guess there is in this case, in the Western times, where most people don't know anything.

So in this case, the gravity of this is such that that's helpful on the FRA for some of the students.

I mean, you know, people that, you know, public positions and what's, I find this is a reflection of the grand jury.

Those that they want to,

They have this capacity and process.

They can ruin it and never get it in for us.

Unless you're the co-conspirator, don't call into the grand jury.

Don't file a, uh, don't take an indictment against you.

Or if the president's a suspect, you're good.

And you're good forever.

You're a conspirator in the water.

You're a public leader as far as the public is concerned.

You don't call it that.

That's right.

That's the story of the allegations.

The president is the person who never believes.

It's unactionable.

It's privilege.

You can't sue for slander.

You can have a public judgment.

We have a public position that would command substantial attention.

We give power to Trump.

The thing that is part of the protection of the grand directives is that first the charge is created by the government.

Then the charge is made.

Then everybody shuts up.

The evidence is not disclosed.

Nobody says a word.

The judge cautions everybody.

People have to vote.

So then you go to trial, and everything is dead, controlled by those weapons.

Then the defense attorney makes decisions based on that evidence.

That's the system.

Now, if you do it the other way, you don't get to trial.

So it's going to be like a conviction, public prosecution.

It's a political call that we bring, though there is a conversation.

We don't need to decide or do the omission, but it's something that will have to be decided.

The relationship with Dean probably was planned in turn because we were already going to the president in all these transactions.

What I said to Dean, what Dean said to me, in private conversation with other parties present, could be impressively credible.

The question is, if requested by the prosecutor, would it be credible?

And what's that Dean conversation where he says he can't have told me that Lydia had confessed, but it didn't go far?

Well, the only reason to tell me was not for me, as Dean,

But because I was one of the two conquerors that he had through his boss.

He didn't have, I mean, in the organizational center, for example.

President's law was very interesting.

It only got through August, but by the time the water came breaking, until the end of August, when you signed your wills, you got to sign your wills in the August.

You have to charge them.

That's, of course, something that didn't do very well in August.

Of course, I had no communication with him at all.

Now, he gave a lot of legal advice about this case.

And all that, but there's also a developed, mature relationship.

And sooner or later, the president and I have to decide who he wants to assert his privilege.

And he becomes my privilege, whatever the client's privilege.

And Dean's communications to me and my communications to him

and say, um, really, that's a tough problem.

You probably won't want to return it.

Take a look.

I don't think politically you know what you need about this.

It's probably the first thing I could go on.

I'd rather have it in the setting, sitting there.

I don't know.

There's a lot of times I can think about that a lot.

I'm not expecting that.

We have a budget here.

We have a budget.

I appreciate what you're saying and that is important.

Hello?

That's right, and I deferred to him.

Well, hell, I deferred to him in this damn investigation.

Dude, I remember you said, I think you ought to talk to John Dean.

Remember, I called him in there.

And Christ, I, I know I did, but I didn't.

There's a party amongst Camp David.

I deferred to him.

I don't know what to do with him.

Why don't we get over it?

Well, let's start with one thing.

I don't see anything in the game.

Why don't we get over it?

See, here's the problem.

I had to write these bills on Sunday.

I both can't have it set because of all of them.

I heard just a fact that day.

Both of these crimes are complicated.

They ought to resign.

They haven't served me well in the first place.

I didn't think they were going to resign.

I said, look, I can't do it on a corroborated test.

The fight is, I think, a moment of truth.

They compromised.

We've got a corroborated test now.

That's my concern.

I don't care.

The real pain is mine, because the person who's talking about this should have no more and no less rights than the person who's talking about this.

That's my concern.

Right, Bill?

There's a good counter argument that a person in public office has a higher obligation than a person not in public office.

This is a public office.

I think though that would be reasonable to decide.

That in effect is

I think that if we turned up in this crazy information, you know, even though we're not charged with a crime, and if, you know, since I write you a letter and say I'm going to do this charge, obviously I don't want to repair it.

And I'm going to take a leave.

You can say, I asked you to put me on leave until the charges are cleared.

Sure.

And I think that's the direction from which it ought to come.

I personally think that that's really the course of action that should change, is to let them put it out if they want to do that.

And if they do, then the structure .

And to meet your say, I'm confident that these charges will not stand up and that I, and so forth.

My usefulness, of course, will be seriously impaired.

I, therefore, request a leave until the matter is cleared up.

I think that's, I think we all agree on that.

In fact, it's like an indictment that he has on there to say, I'm shocked that the procedure followed what I've already stated.

I'll see to it that the Justice Department changes the procedure.

But in this kind of a case, now that, normally that kind of just would be all that would happen.

In effect,

He would be doing a great disservice to you than to find you by charity, in fact.

That's right.

If you're working for him, he's already decided before you search him.

I am condemning you.

I am condemning you before you have your day in court.

That really means something to me.

Now, if... if you were to resolve things as well, and decide to go to the search engine, that's a different matter than going to the search engine.

I don't... the thing I think is...

but based on what they just gave to the president, which I don't care, I don't miss, which is the one thing that I don't know about.

Well, I don't know what the other thing was.

And the music, well, I don't know what the other thing was.

I don't know what the other thing was.

And then after that, that cannot be corroborated.

Well, even, suppose he said that.

Well, he said that.

Well, that wasn't, that's what you say, that's what you did.

So, what did they do?

They turned all, everything, let's say, over to the FBI.

They turned over the materials dealing with the Watergate investigations.

They were investigating.

They turned over all the materials that were not related to the Watergate, that were not under investigation, to the head of the FBI.

How the hell can you say that's obstruction of justice if you turn over all the evidence to the FBI?

Except if my dad's a great burglar.

I mean, that's just the fact that Pat Gray was told to do that.

He said that that's it.

That's it.

He was not told to do that, sir.

Probably the other business is very suspicious.

And that's the business of should he leave the country.

And we checked with everybody in that team and they don't remember anything like that.

And it turns out Dean felt the living a total gift to have him on leave for company.

And Colson recalls, Dean mentioning this again, not in my office.

And Colson saying to Dean, you stupid bastard, what a terrible mistake.

And then it was kind of mentioned.

So I didn't leave the country.

And he doesn't leave the country.

So I suspect that Dean may have acted unilaterally on that.

Here, again, mostly brought him up short.

Here, he's trying to pass this up early.

He's got to have an explanation for why he did it.

And as far as that's going to come out from the others, they said, it's totally .

Well, yeah, there's no question that he got orders from Libby, who said, my principal's sad.

And they said, who's your principal?

He said, John Dean.

John Dean said, don't know, we'll throw him down.

We've got to get into one of these.

He said, I said, .

But the probabilities

in the surrounding circumstances, and he has them now.

Okay?

Now, I don't have any illusions about this process.

When you get a test of credibility, everybody gets used up.

There's nothing left at the end of that.

So, you just have to respect the intensity of the law game.

than it is for this time, in all cases.

And we're responding right to that.

The 350 business that Trump has spent on, that's still a good business.

Mainly, that means to me there's no question about it.

But just basically that we acknowledge it and so forth.

They wanted it for that purpose.

And the question is,

what you thought of Carson.

And then I'll say they don't believe me.

That's what he gets down to, right?

There again, of course they have a root.

He broke down and cried.

That's all right.

I had spaghetti tonight.

Possibly you may ask for advice tomorrow.

We sure appreciate your gentleness.

And he was enormously gratified to hear it.

He was the only name who could suggest it.

He said, well, Bill and I have been on the same side and on opposite sides.

He wouldn't speak to me.

It wasn't a Swiss deal.

He said I handled this on my own.

He wouldn't speak to me.

I moved over here three days a week.

I never saw President Eisenhower.

Never got an autographed picture.

So he said that we thought maybe we should just give him a second.

Very good.

Provided he had nothing to do with the water game.

It's very clean.

By the looks of it.

So are you.

Okay.

I'm glad you're here.

I don't know about that.

I don't know anything about lawyers anymore.

For exactly the reasons that Bill probably wouldn't like, because he's an old man and he won't like working there.

I do love him.

I'm only 72 years old.

But I'll tell you, the guy has got a

Well, it's good to have him.

He's so devoted to the other things.

He's just devoted to the fellow police.

It's a great honor for me to meet you, man.

What is his reaction, though?

I'm trying to figure out how to characterize it.

Hello.

Oh, you've been busy.

Yeah, we're late.

That's all right.

Either way, that's all right.

I think we had a question about whether the matter, whether I talked to Mitchell.

Huh?

Yeah, that's right, Mitchell, but there wasn't a time.

They'll say, did you ever hear this period that my first daughter didn't talk to Mitchell?

There we go.

Peter was talking.

There we go.

All right, Ron.

Good luck.

Well.

I just feel that that's, I feel that that we just couldn't do that.

Now, they may kill you, but at least

I'll tell you, I think you can put them in a box and they're going to have to make some damn good reasons for that to happen.

I mean, it's credible and it's totally for sure.

I don't believe it.

I'm sure it's going to be recorded.

Did they ask you that?

Yes.

What do you think?

Oh, herb, oh herb is great.

Well, that didn't bother me a bit.

I was always ready to give him a permit.

And I said, this is very satisfactory.

I think we've now accomplished the permit, which is a good deal.

I said, it applies to this case, but the letter does that.

I admit that.

I admit it worked for him.

But, no, I had to get the ship to come to the press.

But why did the president act so late on this case?

Why didn't he act earlier on this matter?

We had the charges going on in the anterior city.

They were unseen.

They were charges, they were just looking at me.

I mean, really, that's true.

They were in the state for charges and so forth.

And I just want to lie on them, frankly.

Well, the scheme was not of the essence in this case.

It wasn't a matter of whether or not by proving quickly you had sought something.

It just didn't, it just mattered.

I don't know.

It's not true.

basically the money and the stuff and then they would probably be non-fussed by that.

They said, of course they'd turn to check on us.

So we were just taking each other out of it.

So we said, of course, is that going to be a check on us?

We're going to follow up with them.

They said, well, it is going to be a check on us.

Of course, Titus, we should have him on top of this.

Why does Silver call for a check on Titus?

There's a network of old boys in the Justice Department.

A band together.

He said that John Dean never worked in the Justice Department.

He also mentioned those lawyers that Dean has.

He said that Glanzer is a very bad operator.

He knows it well.

He said that Glanzer is a very bad operator.

He knows it well.

I don't think it was intended as that, not because it triggered this, but because it's such a safe

Well, it led out ahead of time that the White House was going to vote on something.

And I thought you guys, you did.

Well, did that story say the White House was going to vote?

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

The heads are going to roll.

Is that the product came directly from me?

I think vaguely so.

The White House is likely to admit some watergate responsibilities will make a dramatic addition to one or more high-level officials.

Very responsible, but it doesn't say White House officials.

I don't know if you're actually now saying something, you know, substantial developments and then an initial bomb or phrase.

That's all we're going to get together.

Rather, rather.

Yeah.

So you said it was the 22,000 was the difference in money material to the case.

In other words, was that, did he keep the money or was there something like that?

Well, he called the same day.

Called the next day.

Called within 24 hours.

That's the next day.

Testified on Thursday, August 5th.

He's using every letter they can lay their hands on.

It says in the last three weeks in the White House, all of them have been coming down very hard.

Telling everybody, if you have anything to say, say it now.

This was a message that was given to Mitchell Center and to White House.

No protection, no apologies, anyone and everything was destroyed.

Should have been Erwin.

Or get on the White House credit for practicing down hard on the water game.

That's not good.

That's a damn good position to be in.

And when Ziegler talked to me, he says, I can't give you anything official on that.

But I'm putting you off the record.

You're not far off today.

Bill was on last night.

No, tonight.

Bill called and asked for confirmation.

He said he was willing to let the story on Ziegler's comment.

Ziegler said, I can't give you anything official on that.

The story on his comment.

Well, that's what I said, Ron.

Hold the safe for a little while.

Don't talk my story.

Don't get me off the top.

There's another item.

Right thing.

We have to get it out.

That's right.

I'm sorry.

I was looking forward to getting it tomorrow.

They both had something to go with.

I would say they'll hold up now.

They're playing the long game.

We're fighting off the thousands.

Your point, John, about the cuts.

We ourselves, I think we have spent the process up.

We've made a hell of a big cut, but this time there's this kind of stuff here.

We would have had stories for three, four months.

At Earth, right?

We're getting it to the brain jury, and then they're going to put it back.

There's no question that it's the best way compared to the earlier process.

It's essential for this to work.

The fact that it's a small amount worked for the fact that it's kind of a possibility.

It's a way to minimize the risk of this goddamn thing.

It makes the possibility of indictments.

Those would have done anyway.

They would have let you get away with it

Yeah, well, I didn't fucking have to agree with it.

It was an urgence, probably.

It was a matter of luck.

And I, we referred it all to the grand jury.

It's a murder.

Well, anyway, as a matter of fact, you might have turned a set on some day and watched your White House counsel crack the Florida's television.

It's a complete surprise to me.

That's right.

Oh.

Yeah.

He's not up there.

I'll try to hold it up there.

Sir, I guess that you immediately approved of this White House candidate.

That's this guy, Thompson, who tried to turn corruption.

He's tough, bright, dedicated to public service, attractive, clean.

He's in the military.

He had to try out three cases this year.

He tried Carter because I don't know how big Florida is.

Would he be loyal to the president?

He's got every reason to be.

He was here today to make a big call, good looking guy.

Very robust.

But he's also just given daily offense because of his anti-corruption stance.

He's the nation's leading corruption leader out there.

And he seemed to be able to personify a little brood so he could clean.

Could he be the director of the FBI?

Yeah.

I mean, we're waiting for him, but if you don't want to wait, you sure could go to this guy.

He runs a great big office.

There's 78 lawyers.

Yeah, the White House, I know you don't think it's important, but the White House counsel is important.

I would hate to have you appear in the position of

I think that I've got to play.

I want to play.

I know that Dean's playing very well.

I think we've played it pretty, very well.

I think we're going to do it.

I don't see how Dean can possibly miss these and whatever they put out.

We can't miss these.

And the way this guy talks, I need all of you, all of you, everybody to hear me.

What we may do is have Mr. Wilson go around and call the U.S. Attorney in place.

We're not going to move that over with Bill here and say, okay, you're about to ruin these guys.

I just want you to know that they are going to have to go out and protect themselves.

You're going to be a big problem.

He has quite a cool suit of defense.

It is, and we get a bunch of the troubles on this, is that he's going to have to make himself everything and anything he can, make a food for the press, or not get any of the functional energy, so-called, where he just has this idea of what he's going to bring.

In other words, you're trying to say more than, I don't know.

I would suggest, I would personally go to the Supreme Court and put my foot up and put it on the line.

Showing to the judge what kind of a witness he is.

Going to get them off the hook, the executive branch, by having the judge down with them.

And the president's trying to do what's best.

You're putting yourself with the angels.

I'm just saying, you're not granted any major.

I think that will be read as relating to Mitchell.

Before that, I hope as well.

Oh, sure.

That's the point.

Well, I...

But I have told the big guy, I told the assistant attorney general, specifically, that nobody should be damaged because we don't have anything to do with it.

I told you about it.

I agree with you on this.

The other point that our attorney made, which is, you know, that's right, the judge is right.

And the executive, only the attorney general is right.

I told someone else to do it.

and i'm going to fill it and fill the hole

I don't think you can control the handling of it.

I don't think you can deal with it.

I'll tell you what's lurking in the back of my mind.

Is that in the chain of circumstances, you may be provoked to make a public statement.

I'd like the libel suits.

I mean, both of you.

You ought to have, get yourself a libel lawyer.

I don't know.

Check the panels.

The most vicious libel lawyer there is.

I'd sue every son of a bitch.

There have been stories over this period of time.

That will make, that also helps in other domains.

Sue.

Sue right down the line.

Doesn't make any difference now about that.

I think you ought to go out and sue people.

Well, the thing with Weicker is whether he's safe.

I think so.

I'm going to ask you to alert him.

I think his ability was that specific.

He was that specific.

Was Haldeman new?

Yes.

Good.

And Haldeman directed me.

And Haldeman was in personal command of all personnel.

I repeat, all personnel at the rewriting committee.

Good.

Sweet.

Thank you, sir.

He was in personal command of Liddy and Hunt.

I was the Sioux wiper in the court.

I was the Sioux wiper.

I was the Sioux wiper, and I deposed it goddamn fast, asking her about the 65G.

She was God's libel then, and you may as well have given her the libel, but hang yourself a little.

Hang yourself a little funny.

I make expenses.

Operating procedures-wise, we will accept a clean and life-recommending recommendation

We should maintain the facade of normal operations as long as you take this position.

I don't think we want to look like something that's radically changed.

I don't think we should come into the office at the normal time of the morning and have your staff meeting.

We should be at the meeting tomorrow at the energy conference and we should be at the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh,

I think we should, unless our lawyer needs us here.

I normally would, and I think we should.

Oh, I think we should.

Right.

I don't understand.

They practically, oh, I mean, oh, well, then I think probably, you know, sure, of course, we, but the concession that I would ask, and that is that people on leave be considered to do some campaign.

Let me say what I have in mind.

Do what I have in mind.

What I want you to do is move forward.

If this thing comes out, I can't believe it.

I want you to move forward.

You're right.

You're all wrong.

You took out a bad record.

You went one hell of a time through it.

Yours is a little tough.

I think that's why I hope, I hope that the race with the judges here today is your turn today.

Please give me the law on that point.

That's our other point, yeah.

We haven't gotten to the point.

I tell you, it's the law on obstruction of justice.

He's breaking that tonight for us.

He says it's, it's, yeah, it's, uh, loose.

Skaggs Lancer is the name of the leading authority on it.

He uses it like a budget.

I'm voting.

I'm voting for this lawyer.

Well, he hasn't given us that yet.

He didn't give us the opinion.

He just said, I'll just tell you what, Dr. Thompson, it's very tough.

It's loose fraud and cases go all the way.

I mean, you have to think of something.

I was always suspicious.

Sorry.

I was not.

And I remember the way I put it, he was saying, you know, I'm talking to these guys and they're buying the thing.

And I said, I think they're taking it.

Remember I said that?

Well, I don't.

I think he was being taken by the Senate.

Yeah, I think he figured right.

Remember I said, I think they're taking the thing.

Well, as I said before, we beat the rap, but we're not excused.

We can't go back to the dark.

But I'll tell you what, we can go back.

We're not dead, we should go to sleep.

But as far as I'm concerned, we're going to sleep.

We're not dead, but we're not going to sleep.

The point is that, and let's wait and see what happens after, before I see what happens.

We honestly don't expect the worst.

But I think that what I'd like to boldly consider is that there's a 2% free time in all sorts of different things.

So, you know, the foundation is what I'm doing.

The foundation is what I'm doing.

those first four years are terribly important and so forth.

I mean, after all, what a snap.

Looking down the road, looking down the road, as far as you're sitting here today, looking down the road, you don't want to take it.

for government service, right?

Or to practice a law.

I don't think it's really a law.

I think it's a game.

It depends on the circumstance.

Yes, it does.

There's nothing to be discouraged about at this point.

But it's...

Thank you, Oscar.

Yes.

I'm not too...

What the hell was I trying to say?

I have that open for you.

I know the foundation.

I understand.

It's very good.

I've got the money to do it.

It's terribly important for the company.

I'm trying to get through this.

I think he's alright.

I don't know how many yards he dropped in there.

Did Dean call him?

Yes, sir.

Did he say what Dean said?

Dean told me that he didn't tell her.

I don't believe it, but that's it.

Herb said that he just followed the instructions.

He just went ahead and did it and sent the money back.

They said that he and Herb.

I don't know if they even told him much more.

I don't know if you can get away with that or if there's much to say.

You can corroborate that hurdle now.

I can't.

I mean, as an abuser, I can certainly be an abuser.

You can say that you told him something such as they did not tell him.

Or just told me a tragic story.

We have to get out of here.

But there's a lot of the truth to this.

I'd love to get the money for accuracy.

Let me ask you this.

I think we'll just check here.

.

There's a way that we can get it to you.

Huh?

No, no, let me tell you.

I know the problems, the facts, and all the rest.

There's nothing we can't do.

Now, how can we do it?

Let's wait and see if it's necessary.

I may not be the best of this guy.

It feels like he's doing a public service job over here right now.

And he wouldn't come out with me.

But let me tell you, it would be a frustration for you.

I mean, you have to do it in pitch.

But you've got to.

You've got to do it.

I never intended to use the money at all.

As a matter of fact, I took the duty to basically be sure that people liked it.

I don't think we contributed money over 50 years.

I don't think we did.

I'm just making sure that we turned those things off and kept it all the same.

It's very substantial.

You could believe it, but this is a fail.

I have thought that if you just go in and you can't manage everything for it, but if you can do it, you can do it.

I think you can take a very strong position on that.

You can put a lot of business into anybody that's staying real estate.

And you can definitely stronger create the future.

I guess the real appeal comes out through me.

I don't think it was I who had the property to be next in their case.

I don't know what happened.

I think it was the president.

I understand.

I can't do that.

I understand.

I'll tell you what.

They're just pretty much in there because they couldn't come around.

Also, I doubt if they have enough on John Dane, but they could give him security for one night.

Yes, but maybe we don't have anything on this.

We don't put a charge request on everything.

Chuck's got another bag of drugs apparently.

Chuck, is that where the Dane's lawyers went out?

Chuck has probably gave word on one of his unstructured ways of working.

Yeah, yeah.

I think he wanted to lay out there in the weeds, but he'd be somebody that you'd want to talk to that day.

I don't, I don't, my feeling on this is one of them.

I'm a guarded optimist, but I'm just not willing to believe the process.

I just can't.

I just can't accept that.

Well, I've seen it work a lot of times.

Except the thing that concerns me is that this visit plan is a great structure for justice.

The wolf sure is, and that's fine.

He's got to have some facts, and he does work for the Stalatitis, and he's got to get by him, but he can't do this all by himself.

And there are checks in this thing, they're not overwhelming, but they're there, and we've just got to find the right topics to push when they can come up.

There's that reason why we maintain the facade of participation.

I understand that.

We work, we work full.

You know, I don't think we talk about our air.

They see their face, they look at us, and they, you know, they jump.

I'm sure people have a real, you know, I don't know this, but I've been talking to this party, and David, let me say,

Well, I've got to do the leadership thing in the morning because that's... You've got to do the leadership thing.

We've got to do the water thing.

We'll do the water after that.

That's right.

And then I think I'll sort of bathe it from there.

I've talked to Schultz and said, you know, I wasn't going to be available until he called this one for us.

And I talked to Ken and said he's going to have to carry a heavier load.

You'll have to get a recommendation.

Now, one problem is Schultz has got to have a dozen trips lined up.

I mean, it's all for itself.

One, to Latin America, and to some inter-American bank, and a bunch of stuff.

So you might give it a sign.

Well, you have a sign that says, this is where they're going to steal something.

Maybe it just works for the state of the church.

But anyway, that's something to do with it.

Henry asked me in the hall today,

And I could have sworn I had a spot of water sitting right in the middle of my forehead.

And he got a long look on his face.

He greeted me like my wife had just died.

He's taking this very much to heart.

He's being very supportive.

And it's troubling him very much.

He doesn't know what to do.

He really doesn't know what to do.

I'm sure, I'm sure Garnt has been encouraging him.

Yeah, he did.

And I said, Henry, call me at home.

I said, Henry, the best thing you can do for the president is to serve him.

Keep everything else going.

Where do we put Garmin at this point?

I don't think he said I was going for a trip.

I think maybe I was sent into Solana or someplace.

No, I'm sure.

On Garmin.

I wonder if I was going to see him.

He was there.

Okay, very well.

I'm not speaking up in terms of our situation.

I'm speaking up in terms of his relationship with Ash and the committee.

Where really he comes into play.

Because that frankly is another reason why I'd like to see him get a tough, aggressive guy.

I don't know if it's a coat.

It's a coat, isn't it?

It's a coat.

Well, I have a coat, too, you know.

Three coats.

It's another reason.

I've actually seen a tough, aggressive guy in here, like Solly or Thompson or something like that, to supersede that problem.

Because if you had somebody like that, then you could say, well, thanks a lot.

That was great.

Now this guy's going to take over.

And there's no real rush on that.

The point is that I think we could get

I'm afraid to go over to my father's house.

I'm constantly being bullied.

I'm trying to find a good man for myself.

Someone got me back at that shop a few weeks ago.

Yeah, he's probably good.

I've got my lawyer there.

I'm sure he's got a lawyer here.

What's John doing?

The same problem with the river.

I didn't plan to use this.

I guess it's just too traumatic for him.

I don't know.

I think it might be just the time.

Charlie, is what you want.

Get Thompson over there and try to trust you.

How old is he?

Looks like he's in his thirties.

I believe so.

Yeah.

Wow.

Constitutional, yeah.

How about Obey Lent over there getting ahold of the guy up there in New York?

That's the best barley that's occurred to me.

Back in the olden days.

You can't see where they're headed, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's the other one.

Quite heavy weight.

Yeah.

He quoted a saying that I never thought the press was very comfortable with, the phrase guaranteed angulation.

And I sure wasn't.

Pat said he wondered if I would mind just writing a sort of epilogue to the whole episode by telling him how I felt personally about the plan of assistance and a few of my remarks.

I'm just going to do a five foot file, unanswered personal correspondence.

In a way, I suppose that the president actually is handling this without fear of failure.

Are you sure?

Yeah.

I think he could be a guest on that event.

We're concerned what happened, since you are a candidate, is, is helping you and how much you can rely on.

And, uh, I, well, I, I know, I know, Peterson is not, I, I, I don't like it, but it's compared to the movie in a way, you've got to have something to do with it.

Now, maybe,

The thing that you could do is find somebody like Wisconsin or somebody else, or Canada, who, well, more than Canada, is involved.

And it's just a matter of time before the team looks for something that they need.

So at least if you get anybody you are really heavily on, that's a good point.

You just have another problem.

I think it's more or less low and does not surface.

He could be useful and he won't be paying.

He's the sort of guy who would be big enough to pay.

Well, it's just that it wouldn't have hurt as much if you didn't go after him.

I think it's kind of invisible.

But if you were to elevate him, unless you were invited to it, yeah.

If you were to elevate him, that might be trouble.

And I know, so I need somebody around here to help me.

I'm going to turn it now to the director of the FBI.

Well, I got a marvelous letter about Matt Byrne from, of all things, a Harvard professor, who was a Republican, a Harvard professor, one of the few up there.

He goes, well, it's a different one from what you are.

He would have known Matt Byrne from the days when they were both on the staff of that commission that he headed, that strength commission.

This guy said that Byrne is a leader and

and down the middle, a judicious, nonpartisan, he is quickly, I mean, it's us, he's really, so, bringing in, John, the bottom of QF, he replaced, he held it completely to his body.

I would suggest he not try to do that.

Right.

Yeah.

He's like Parker.

He's sanitized to the minor areas.

.

I guess what I've been doing for 40 years, let me see some of those other things that you haven't seen.

Now I've been signing off on this stuff.

And some of the trouble that we're having

ashes in the Ascendancy.

And you're going to have some internal problems if I'm not here.

I can put it down in a can-can.

Is there one?

I mean, he's being moved into a room.

I'll give you an example.

We were announcing an energy message for our three-man committee of 5,000 energy.

as a substitute for this thing that they wanted to accomplish.

Ash wouldn't sign off on it because he wanted to be on the committee.

And so he held it up for four days.

So finally, the owner and somebody else came to me and said, dude, this is the whole thing.

So I said, well, what are you going to sign off on before they do it?

Now, Ken can't get away with that.

And so you will find yourself refereeing, I'm afraid, moves like that.

Not this weekend.

No, sir, but I mean, that's the kind of thing that I can get away with, that nobody else around here can.

Andrew's all kept out of it.

I'm a lot of referees every month, that's the greatest thing.

Okay.

I'll build you on that.

Like hell, that's the deal.

It doesn't make a lot of difference what happens.

We're still here for a while.

That's right.

Yeah, I can still get to that position.

If it works out that we can stay, that's advantageous because .

If it works out that we can't stay .

I want you to let me know about the money.

I understand.

You know, we're very .

You know, for a while, .

But if we get into a trial phase, I'm going to go out of time and hire the best goddamn trial lawyer in the world and bring him in here and load him up and really put on a show.

So that'll cross the front.

Sorry, like I mentioned Bill Freach down in the planning or something of that kind.

Right.

Very skilled.

Very tough.

Yeah.