Conversation 429-015

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Come in, come in.

Hi, nice to see you.

I heard you were one of the Jewish leaders today, but you were also so good, so strong at the announcement today.

You want me here?

Yeah, anyway, that's fine.

And I spoke with your young presence.

That's it.

You have something to plant me with?

Yeah, I only smoked this somebody gave me.

I'm not a smoker, you know.

That's a good thing.

I quit for ten years of that.

During the campaign.

If I'm not as cool as you are, I've found myself smoking a cigar.

There are little customers.

I was going to say that.

And I, I, I only hope that this miserable man, R.B., doesn't rub off on you this way.

He could only rub off on you in a tangential way.

If you were there to advise him.

Well, that's for another word.

There you are.

But they end up sort of having to be, you know, grabbing people.

But I think, uh... Could they, again, talk to him again?

No.

I don't, uh, I was put off in there for a while.

I don't know.

It was 3.30 yesterday.

Right.

I didn't like doing anything.

But, but, you know, I made a call.

Well, I can't go down.

bleeding, you know, everything and all.

But, uh, I read the chapter, just after we got to Sydney, Sydney Grove.

Right, right.

And, uh, so, I said that I did everything, you know, from the beginning, but I guess that's about it.

Well, I, I was just, I assume that's what, my daughter, I'm gonna have to say, was one of the first ones, and I won't get in the way of that, you know, because that's fine with yours, but, but, uh, it occurred to me that, uh,

You know, if somebody wants to ask me what I said to you, you know, President.

I don't think that would be asked.

I don't think it will.

But they say, have you ever talked to the President about it?

I think they'll say, that matters, and that would be a privilege.

Yep.

Well, I, what I would say, I'd say, of course we have it.

Yes.

Of course I have it.

There's a, the President's, there's a President's view, so of course we'll call him.

Good.

Well, that's, that's preferable.

I'd say, yes, of course I have it.

President.

.

I guess, we don't know what it is, but there's a problem.

Yeah, what is it?

What is it?

What size is it?

I don't know what it is.

I got active in this because I was in a cigarette thing.

Yeah.

We discussed that back in October then.

Right.

I'm a kid now.

and an advisory board, and then I became a water gate.

I was a, but occasionally I was just something up at the down seat, going to give up.

Oh, no, during, sometimes it would be in December, say February.

Oh, after the election.

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

Before the election, my role was just a very good task, because they'd go to meetings.

The fifth pillar, I was one of the VR advisors that mentioned stands, and

And that was before the election.

Ziegler tells me that all those who talked to DMD, splatly said, nobody in the White House was involved.

I asked him that question, you know, that's the first thing I knew him throughout.

I said, now, John, I've got to know this one thing.

Was anybody in the White House who said no?

I mean, that's the first time I've been closer here.

He had a little bit of a good eye.

And then he got the idea he was involved.

That is right.

Yeah.

What he acknowledged to me, and in general,

And I said, oh, Lizzie came in and my dad was glad.

He said, well, okay.

I said, well, if you try, I'm going to plan on going ahead.

And I said, get those shots down.

And I was here, and I said, okay, we've got to play something like that.

That's going to be...

Talked about it.

Talked about it all the time.

They just told me to... Told me to...

He talked about it in three conversations.

Yeah.

That's very important.

Yeah.

Well, he told me that.

And I said, well, John, I had a hard time.

I asked Dean early when I first, when I first got into it, it was like, basically just before the whole concept of a crazy quarterback.

I'm glad it's done.

I want it done, finished.

Don't you agree?

Absolutely.

Get the son of a bitch finished.

That's what should have been long ago.

I'm afraid that our great, dear friend, John Mitchell, is in the cold.

John Mitchell is still alive.

John Mitchell just couldn't bear going before, frankly saying, right after the keeper said, well, oh, oh, this is a terrible thing.

I didn't approve it specifically.

I condemn it.

And that's what he should have said.

But he didn't do it.

As a result, ever since then, they've had the possibility of taking care of the defendant's counsel and for some of their expenses and so forth and so on and getting other people involved.

And that's just been wrong.

You said that there's a number of us who've done a good thing.

That's right.

Or his neighbors.

His neighbors would ask me for guidance.

And I said, what is the situation?

And he said, well, I talked to me.

And I said, does he say nobody was involved?

All right, did you ever say to him?

No, we didn't.

What else did we do?

And then, but I think, I really don't know.

Are you going to be in that period?

I don't know.

Well, I don't know.

I was not close to his side of it at that time.

That was August 29th.

I was involved with the convention.

They went for it.

And this thing still looked like nothing but a bunch of people.

I don't recall being surprised with finding out, or question me, I frankly thought, because it's living in my hands to accept it.

It took all the damn money.

Well, I thought that was my belief throughout.

I would have maybe called Mitchell and said, John, let's do it.

First, I couldn't believe anybody as smart as Mitchell would ever have allowed it.

I saw a review over there.

They said, no, you can't do that.

Well, I guess, to the best of my knowledge, I really got involved and it makes sense.

Right after the Senate passed the resolution, which was in February, as a matter of fact,

It's an interesting coincidence.

The first time I ever saw Dean, was when Dean came in together.

I remember when Dean came in together.

But it's not going to be exactly true.

It's a discussion of a press conference.

Now, I did say that, well, after one of those meetings, John, the thing is moving into a point where the president may be speaking to sir here.

Maybe he doesn't know, but the problem is, if John was hitting it that time,

And I think he told me that he was going to come and stay at home.

That's right, he did.

He did.

But he took his credit and came in and he said no.

Yes, he laid out pretty much, he laid out his concerns, about the four meetings, or I can't remember if it was the five or the one, or I'm not going to tell you what it was.

and that went wrong and he went on to he didn't indicate the summer name of purgatory point which apparently he suspected to be purgatory point and that's not a case would say to me you know i've got to discuss with this thing i haven't mentioned it but the good is going to try to think to me

How's he going to handle it?

He said, well, I told him.

I told him the truth.

I told him what kind of questions he was going to be asked.

I talked to him about it.

He said it's up to you.

He told me the same thing.

I believe it.

We don't believe.

We believe it now.

I think the bigger liar is the truth.

That's right, of course.

Well, the Grutter did that.

Yeah.

No, the Grutter didn't.

The question was, could it have been a Grutter flying R&D?

I think so.

I had a personal problem with the Grutter.

I was looking at Dean.

Yeah, he told me.

The Grutter.

Dean told me.

I think he told me.

I think Dean told me at some point, you know, he said, well, don't worry about it.

I said, I agree with him.

He said, it's not going to go down at all.

He said, if it goes down, it's going to take the whole country, particularly me.

I said, so.

And I posted about testimonies, I did, I did, I gave his options, I told him what the options were.

And he said, I'm going to pass her over to you.

He said, let's, I mean, he was talking about Bob Cage.

And he said, by the way, Jeff and I were in touch.

And he was one of them.

He said he was my whole past of crazy.

He had to recommend me a job, a job.

And Jeff and I had great likes together when I was doing this job.

And then he said, you know, but I do have a lot of support.

He said, don't you have a lot of fire stuff?

And he said, no, of course not.

I had led Firestone in some way.

I had a chance to get set in the industry, but no dice.

I said, oh, I'm very glad to prove a lie.

So I said, what's with that game?

So maybe Dean was all right with that.

Now, go ahead.

No, but it's Jeff.

It's a main drummer.

It's just Jeff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But in this context of credibility, I would go with anybody but the group.

I've even had to think, you know, if Jeff had his part, I'm not hearing about both of them.

I agree with your question.

I mean, it's brave.

It's brave.

My brain was basically, it had LaRue in it.

LaRue, I encouraged him to say, he was jumping through the void.

He must have always done this.

I don't know.

I mean, you know what he did for me.

I don't know.

I frankly don't know.

I'm just not going to have to tell you that.

That doesn't make any difference.

I mean, about Christ, I love all these people.

They were all going after me for the way they thought.

But the Maru and Marty and the rest were in the cover-up then.

We cared for the field.

But that's a good fact of Dean, that what happened, that I remember you and he came in the office, that he came in alone.

And I saw him at least three or four other times, because I thought he was in charge of the damn thing.

But he was.

And we had him, and when he went to Camp David, what happened?

We went to Bill, the right-hand paper, Bill.

He was up there, and head down, and he seemed to be

I told him about the folks.

He called me and said, well, I can't tell you.

He was up there.

You know why I sent him there?

Because he was under, everybody was out of his house.

And I said, John, we need to, you know, my hope would be to go along.

Remember Dick's?

Let's get on a report.

There would don't need a report.

It's a normal thing.

Let's get the whole thing out and get all the whole business to sit ready and rest.

And he was driving around.

He came back to me in the rain.

He was out of the paddock and he was rubbing the wall up there.

I don't know what it was.

His wife was there with him.

But he was trying to describe it.

He just had a feeling.

He was conversational with mine a little bit.

He was nervous.

He was starting to worry as well.

He said, I just need to get this.

I said, if I walk in the woods in two hours and I can't put this together, I don't know.

I saw it, but I think the problem was that he put it together and he saw that he was wrong.

This thing began to blow up.

And it actually only ended in the last few weeks.

Some conversations, something that he knew beforehand, but the press, he said, the first time I ever said that, I thought, what a thing.

The press said he told me he knew about one thing.

you know, told us that that would make one person in the White House who did tell us that.

No, his answer to that would be that he knew that such a plan was presented, but he did not know that it was approved.

I said, well, that was a good thing.

Sure, that could be.

I didn't know.

I didn't ask him.

The moment I knew that he knew about it, I didn't fire him.

He never said that.

All I thought I saw was a third answer that they were saying.

It was presented, but not that it was approved.

That was his firm.

And I finally agree with that.

I finally agree with that.

I finally think that John Dean was too smart to have this man be on the wall.

I still think it's that important.

I still think it's important for getting information.

He's got to do all kinds of things to it.

He's got to protect the service.

He's got to know what to do with it.

He's got to protect it.

presented as a leper's plan.

You know, we didn't even, we didn't even, we didn't even, we didn't even, we didn't even, we didn't even, we didn't even, we didn't even, we didn't even, we didn't even, we didn't even, we didn't even, we didn't even, we didn't even,

They do mean a pleasure.

But they do mean a pleasure.

But they didn't approve any of it.

He was in the lower act.

Don't do it.

Don't tell us any more about it.

Well, that's just, that's how he mentioned it.

That's totally different.

And I think that I have a credibility contest with several boys, but I don't think he was rude.

That's everything.

But the good and rude are, I think, a consummate liar for the present time.

And they can't hear him in the end.

And I don't see how they could be in the end.

I don't know what their, what the U.S. attorney's office has done for us.

I don't think they've done it for us.

I mean, I don't know what the U.S. attorney's office has done for us.

I mean, I don't think they've done it for us.

I look back at

dangerous now, so they're not going to make him escape.

Well, you know, I didn't know this.

I don't know what he's talking about.

Is he talking about all of it?

All of it.

That's what I think.

Well, that's what I think.

Well, sir, obviously, a couple of his wife who said, John, you're, you've been, I mean, he's got a question and a list of things.

I thought he was an agent.

Those are the things mothers talk to you about.

I was earlier than an agent, right?

In what respect?

Well, I don't know.

Well, the one thing he said, this is government.

He basically told me, yes, I can sit down.

I said, basically, I don't know what to do with all this.

Earlier than that, no, prior to that, nobody had any.

But I think they would claim all that they did in this respect.

They say that the budget was solid.

The other point is that they said that the tape was sent over, and of course John said we've got material that says non-connected sources report, but they had no idea that it was that.

and of course hauled it from him and he said stuff is so useless that he didn't even have a haul to see it now that's what they said I believe that I don't know about a lot of people like that also Dean Dean can't testify on that one he can't say it or McGrew McGrew can't say it McGrew can say he sent it but nobody can say that it got here you know what I'm saying go ahead come back on Dean on Earth what else is this here well it starts by saying it goes back and they get to this they said that goes back to the club

Yes, the Lillies.

That was all in the National Security Area.

That got all about us.

That involved us all the time.

Edgar Hoover wouldn't do Ellsbury because Louis, Marks' daughter was married to Ellsbury.

The daughter was married to Ellsbury and Edgar personally just couldn't bring himself to get in.

So we had to do something in Ellsberg, and the police up here in the tribe would get information on the Ellsberg case, but now on that score, there was no bugging, I thought.

The FBI didn't bug me once we got into the case, I'm not sure.

But as far as the, there was this crazy thing where Hunt goes out and breaks into the psychiatrist's office and has a picture taken of him, and I mean, gets the file and so forth.

Early on, I had no knowledge of that particular thing.

I did not approve anything like that and so forth and so on.

And I don't know what he was talking about at the time.

He never spelled it out the other time.

He said, this is going to end up very good.

And then he got big.

He mentioned Crowe.

He was having a problem.

I didn't know if it was the same thing.

But he said, you better not know.

And he would plug it in.

And I said, oh, well, by this time.

So I just put him aside as a little piece of gospel.

At any rate, it's not related to the former.

I doubt if that's ever going to serve, whatever that is.

So I don't think so.

Except Dean, if he says he's not going to be a speaker, you know, he's going to testify, I think.

Am I a shot on that, sir?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Would you think so?

He might.

Is that relevant to Trump?

Well, if you were having any trouble.

See, he has nothing to do with it.

No, I told Peterson.

I told Peterson.

I said, no, I don't want to.

Is there anything else?

I think this went through.

I don't know.

That's their job.

Sure, but I don't think they're going to be looking for stuff like that.

I think they're going to make it.

They're making something.

What a great idea.

Well, it is exciting to me to get us on this gun.

I should go inside of this thing.

Oh, it's not just a gun.

It's a great self-incrimination.

I'm like, shit.

That's fine.

So, now what else do you need out of all of this?

I need to know.

Oh, I know.

If I could call it as it does.

Well, I don't know.

I don't know, sir.

Well, I'm going to tell you what he said.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

In California?

Yes, just in the background so that it's in the focus of the picture.

We got set.

The evening of the second?

Yes, the evening of the second, on a Friday afternoon.

The day after the session, after the resolution.

Right.

For the selection.

Then we come out the room to talk about the .

Right.

We got the airplane and we went.

That was all at our age.

Sure.

I ordered that.

That's right.

So, we had two meetings.

I'm sure the president is trying to investigate this.

Yes, I got that right here.

Our bags were packed.

We were able to divert it to the airport.

Well, we had two meetings.

One on Saturday, one on Sunday.

Several hours.

One of them was earlier in his office and the other one had a couch.

He didn't see me.

It was there.

I was voting for it.

It was helping you with this.

It was actually what I wanted.

All right, you guys.

The committee is formed.

They've got to pass the resolution.

Are we ready to do this?

All right.

And the answer was, we're not.

We've got it organized.

We've got it set up for you.

We're working.

Well, yes, we were working and studying, but we didn't have any organization.

We didn't have people who did the cloud books, and we started this kind of thing.

So, well, let's see what we can expect from this.

There we get television, and they give us a committee.

What can we do?

We do anything about it.

We put a console in it.

But the very first thing was, well, this is a job for the committee.

The White House can't be answering every day.

It's aimed at us, but through the committee.

So the committee's got to be set up, don't mistake the hierarchy for lawyers and judges and presidents.

And I remember the first thing that someone said was, well, have you had a lot of input from John Mitchell?

Is he making plans?

Has he got the committee under control?

No.

In fact, have they gone through practice and all the other things at all?

Well, Nick, if you go to this meeting, if you go up and see him, I'm filling in on this whole damn thing.

I've got to do some things.

Such an hierarchy of political officials.

So this is the start of our time here.

All right.

Thank you.

And so that was set up the first day.

Now, with all this kind of discussion, but on the second day, I don't know the exact words.

There was a reference to Bundy.

By the way, there'd be more money for those folks.

And that's, again, the reason.

I'm paraphrasing it.

.

Well, Mr. Weatherman, John Mitchell, other than that, and someone, I think, John, uh, was received here, so maybe Ron will help him there sometime.

Oh, he can always get a little glass of wine.

Oh, he has to do his best to help him out there.

Well, now, on that, uh, money for what?

Well, I didn't ask.

That's the point.

But I checked that, uh, that, uh, there's a little way that, uh, there's some self-suggestion, take a look up there, tell John over there, and we'll relay this to him.

And I didn't react to think about it completely.

But as far as that conversation, sir, I'm just trying to get it in the terms of the earlier one.

Dean says they need more money.

I presume that they would say they need more money to return the speech.

Or was it a payoff to do something else?

No, he was sad about that.

That's the important point.

Yes, sir, it most certainly is.

The question is, was there prior knowledge about it in America that there was a plan that had been raised and being replenished to compensate these small extracts that were moving all over?

Right.

It was for that purpose.

And it was for the purpose of turning speeds and so forth.

That's right.

That's cheering because no purpose was stated.

I don't know whether I know what the law is.

Well, I would have had the feeling that if you'd known what we had to do with that, we'd have been on our way back to L.A. or something.

But in fact, earlier than all of it, I suppose we'd say, listen, that's not our problem, that's our department's problem.

That's right.

Yeah, my lawyer said that I had a surrogate conspiracy.

He said, what are the things you're going to look like?

And what did you say on that?

And I was saying that, first of all, they didn't tell me I would do it.

And I'm trying.

And I'm trying the best of my ability to have that because I can't help it, but I can't help it.

But that doesn't quite go to the question, even without my trip, what was that?

And what would you understand?

Why did they ask me all this for?

But I don't know.

I haven't seen how these things are.

I don't need to know.

I don't know what the knowledge was on me.

Dane spoke to me as we went off, you know, the reason that I, frankly, took him off on the footer in the office, and it's quite clear that he took my name, and he didn't want to show it on his phone.

He didn't want to embarrass me, and I thought, you see, he's emotional about that.

I feel like he didn't want to put somebody else on the phone, because he didn't want anything to do with me.

So he said, you know, I didn't try to hurt him that way.

And then he pointed out, I said, this can't go wrong for sure.

I said, it sure is.

And he said, do you mean nothing?

Dean.

Dean said, well, does this sort of hold?

I mean, this is much later.

I would like you to put me on the road.

The first time I got a direct notion that there was an appeal to Dean for my floor silence was about a week before the sets.

This is a bunch, this is toward the end of, this is toward the end of the time I saw the, the last time I saw it, I was, I was doing something at all.

I said, we can't do this.

I said, well, if you haven't paid my salary, why can't you pay me?

It's a million dollars.

You can't do that.

But that was my fee.

There we go.

And we, that was it.

And I,

I gave him a lecture at the Blackburn, but he flat out said, I got a problem.

I just got a word today that Hunt is going to open this up to us.

$40,000.

$40,000 for himself and $70,000 for his lawyers.

That's all he is.

Before he gets sentenced, he wants his full title.

That's growing up.

Yeah.

And that was the first time.

You heard about that, too.

He mentioned that to me.

Yeah.

And that was it.

I didn't, I'm afraid I had to stop and think of a solution.

So I was sort of, you know, I wasn't prepared to play that back then.

So that's what I said.

I said, John, whoever you're talking about, what it is, tell them, let the guy talk to a black man, because unless he's really dead, you know, you're like a client, what sort of big black man that is, and he killed him.

I said, cut it all down, I think.

Nothing to say about that.

But I understand that that was raised later and that Mitchell apparently raised the money.

No, I don't know if that's how it was.

I think it was the same thing.

I'm going to have to call the police.

Now this was after the visit.

And when John left, I said, I went up to him.

He loved John so much.

I said, well, you know, I always feel about the other fellow.

That's it.

I'll be in a program with John.

We've got to get you to work in the committee.

And I left.

I said, I left.

And I told him he had to stop.

He didn't know.

They threw all the things he was supposed to do about spending more time with him.

Well, you know, what did he say about this money?

Well, he said, I haven't seen this.

He just brought it to me.

I know.

Dean apparently didn't talk to Mitchell about the video, so he'll nail Mitchell on that.

Yeah, I said, now one of the other things, I was a little embarrassed to ask him, I said, something was said about what he did, and the other guy who degraded him, how did that come about?

And then he said, I think he said something, you know, after a while, I had to testify.

That was the first time I thought about it.

And he said, let me say this, thank God we didn't have a fight.

I must give him hell.

And Dean didn't raise him.

So I guess we're having a game of Mitchell.

And this trip of mine, you know, it might have a feeling about that, but it really sets my mind today.

That would have held up the trip that I was in.

I didn't think that was possible.

But the trip did.

The trip to New York?

The trip to New York.

You didn't do it three times?

Just didn't strike you?

No, no.

A little bit, but the way he puts it, it's all after the fact.

I'm afraid I wasn't doing it the way I should have.

I was doing it on a kind of employee relations side.

And the commitment that he's raising the money later doesn't change it.

It's still obstruction of justice.

And the purpose is to keep him from coming.

Sure.

The question is, the purpose is to help a man in trouble.

You can do that, but you can't keep him from coming.

Is that the point?

It is, but I was going to believe you on that one.

Oh, sorry about that.

That's the point.

The pattern is very disconcerting to us.

Now, the point is that there was some knowledge in what that might do.

I have to get on the bicycle again.

George Bush told me, quite a few years ago, the other day.

He was complaining about this.

He said, well, let's go out.

I said, what's an employee in Madison?

I'll give over.

He got me in a car.

I said, they're asking me for $30,000.

I mean, yeah, it took me a while to get to $30,000.

He said, I said, Grant, here's a flat with a big water gauge.

He said, come and pick it up.

I said, what kind is that all about?

He was sad about it.

He was crazy.

I don't know why, but he said, you know, he said, like so many people say, lay it all out.

We should lay it all out.

That's what we've finally done, I guess.

Well, then I said something.

This money, the key thing is, I don't know what the current interpretation is, but it comes up really pretty well.

Which, I don't know what it seems to be.

We don't know if it's returned, but...

The room got it as an agent, according to all of the agents.

Many of them.

The other half is cash and all that, but it went there and they certainly applied and all of them proved it for that purpose.

I mean, that's what we're trying to say.

And those... That's all I'm talking about.

Yeah.

According to that testimony, Scott said, I did it, I said, I saw the picture.

Well, that's not good.

I don't happen to know anything.

I don't want to know.

What's the knowledge behind the procedure for raising money and the purpose of it?

That would refer to...

The last one concerns me because it was mentioned in my person.

It should have been done, but I don't want it to be mentioned.

And I say that's what really triggered my own, that I raised the critical point, how much is that going to cost?

A hundred million dollars, you know, this was an exceptional deal.

Almost the last time I had one, where he said, could you repeat that, what he said?

What he said, as I recall, was that, he was talking about the problem, as I said, the problem was that, one of the problems is the instruction, and I said, well, what does life offer you?

Well, for example, .

Yeah.

But after that, they called me.

And when I got into the tent, it actually wasn't.

I mean, I told you the same thing.

I got through the door.

I mean, before one of them heard me.

I was in, I think, three meetings with you and Steve.

Yeah.

I don't know what you're talking about.

We've talked.

The first two have made it through the tent.

It's good to meet you.

I got that statement.

The third meeting, nothing like this.

A general question of what are our tactics, what should we do about the period?

Dean had some ideas such as, we let the other senators to put their campaign records into this book.

Yeah, he wanted to take it out.

Yeah, and we did some kind of material with Bill Sullivan.

These are all technical things.

Yes, oh, I forgot.

I saw them.

He got a report from Sullivan.

They were very good.

And then we talked about maintaining a strong position of separation of powers.

Yeah.

But we never got into any kind of .

The money then was raised with me.

I mean, where all of them was there.

We raised this point about this .

But the bank was still open, but the bill that they raised was .

Well, apparently, I think they got a .

Yeah.

No, it was not.

No.

I think, I don't know, I guess they got one.

I don't know.

Maybe they did.

Maybe that's why they're not so common.

At least they are.

But, has anybody taken this from the worst light?

I'm looking at it.

Yes, there is.

Now, let me put it this way.

There was some knowledge of payment procedure.

I'm not trying to make trouble for anybody.

I've had it.

No, no.

What I'm wondering, very frankly, is, they were on that, they're on this truck.

This case they're trying to make, I think, is that all of it, or both, kind of acknowledge all of the rules that drives home the instructions.

Right.

That they want to keep this, you know, coming out and they're trying to protect you.

in this desperate situation they said all right you know go ahead pay them off and this is the case that you have to prove i don't know how much of a case they have uh uh john mentioned that uh place that it was not a destruction

I don't know where he got that, but John, he was talking, he was getting information on the U.S. trade.

every day before he, well, that he can get rid of all of them.

I guess we could have went on to something else.

And he said, this is, I've been talking to my attorney, I'm summing up what they're doing over there.

He said, here's what I see, and he had a list of indictments.

He had a little bit of mention of the, the rule, the argument that was coming about.

And then he had a little bit of all of them.

Some of this money thing, you know, Costa and all that, I'm going to ask him.

And the question of, uh, the, uh, he said that, uh, Costa, you know, I understand, so he said, he said, he had it in some place.

By the way, uh, we got a, they have, oh, there's a money, I don't have my check.

Oh, exactly, I mean, where do the lawyers go?

Okay, uh, they need money, uh,

I've got too much time, or it's urgent, something like that.

One of the dudes in the bar, or John, said, well, can't the room get no other grounds than that?

Razor.

I can't remember the item.

Whether somebody said he bit the bell too often, or he shouldn't, or the room was busted, or I don't know what it was.

And then, that's the language, the word that's written there.

Who said that?

Sometimes, God, I can't remember, but it's ambiguous, you see.

He said, what do you have to do?

And there's Nelson Rothenbauer, you know, half an hour later than he was, who dropped, got out of it, said that.

And sometimes they will dig with the she-it, actually.

Why don't you tell her about this?

I can't.

It's my problem.

It's not theirs.

I spent about an hour with them.

I was there.

But one of them asked me, I expected, we're doing the whole thing.

On the other back, beyond that, Dean, let's see.

.

Can you tell me about the black man?

The black man?

The black man conversation was about a week before the sentencing took place around the 21st of March.

And Dean said to me, boy, I just got word that it's a cut.

And I thought he said $40,000.

It's a bad thing.

that $40,000, anyway, a large cell phone, replaced with his account or an escrow, and he wanted it before he gets sentenced, because he wants to have it there and know it's there before he gets sentenced.

Before he gets sentenced.

And he said that to you?

He said that to me, yeah.

I said, what did you say?

I said, John, for heaven's sake, this is blackmail.

I said, blackmail?

I know every adult, every adult.

Tell him, tell him, touch it, let this guy .

That's exactly, and that is important to me now.

That's what he said to me.

He said, this is .

At this point, he can't stand it.

He's not going to say it anyway.

If we do this, it's going to compound the answer.

It's going to go on forever and so forth.

The compounding thing was something else that he mentioned.

But then he kind of said to me, I'm going to do it a little bit faster.

But I'm going to get on with the compounding thing.

Fine.

After that, there was another meeting I'd been to with Dean.

He met with all of the officers.

He didn't ask about that.

He didn't ask much of them.

He never told me about this.

But you think he asked much of them?

No, I don't.

I would think maybe not, because the late John cut it off with me, and that's what it was, you know.

Matter of fact, it was that particular thing that really triggered my old, I said, Jesus Christ, I've been distracted.

Every time I hear that we've got an alcoholic, as I knew, I said, the fact that you can't be playing a black man for years, really sort of makes it ridiculous.

Ridiculous.

I said, John, my God, I said, how much is that going to cost me?

I said, you can pay me this money.

The only thing I'm concerned about is how

my knowledge of that particular thing.

I didn't inform the U.S. security office at that point, but I, of course, I just had it all from there, and the next party thing was Dean.

And I was like, we investigate right away.

All I know is that Dean was asked by someone, I don't know if you've been in touch with him, I was making that demand, and I had no idea whether he had acted on it or not.

I gave my speech, and that's all I know.

But what the earlier situation, what they referred to in that, what worries me in this sense that innovation, their recollections are not totally clear on that.

I don't think so.

that he didn't make the move throughout this whole thing without solving our, you know, whole of the problem.

Now, Dean is going to say that he did a lot of deeply involved in raising funds for the structural justice, which is really going to describe everyone.

It turns out that with all the goodwill in the world that the instructions may go on,

That case could be made against either Bob or John.

We may end up in the back of the meeting.

I'm thinking about that.

Well, and this is the way that I worry about it, that he's like, you know, I can't die.

They've got to prove it on that case.

Both of them have lawyers, I promise you, on the day.

Oh, no, I'm glad, because I like to have lawyers.

I like to have lawyers.

Right.

Particularly on the La Costa thing.

That's a very important thing.

I wouldn't want to suggest any subordination or perjury, but on that one,

I would be very damn pleased.

I mean, it just doesn't seem to me that it's really doing anything.

That's my point.

They did something that's a hell of a lot different than being discussed the problem, but anyway, that's something else.

Well, I thought it was good.

I didn't.

I didn't, frankly.

I'd never heard of it.

Well, I'm going to forget what I'm told.

Certainly.

I forget the rest of it.

Right.

No, you have to.

More of it.

What about this?

What about your communication with the team now?

You know what I'm saying.

I don't think you would talk to me.

All right.

Well, thirdly of all, what I've got to do is to see if they have a concept here that they can do with the resident here.

Well, so he knew it.

The agent told me he knew it.

So I looked behind and opened the door and said, hey, because that's how I heard it.

And the first question I'm going to ask you is, would you like to talk to the White House about this?

I said, okay.

And I closed the door.

Now, I don't think this is making a good deal on Dean.

I think Dean is not going to save himself.

That's right.

I don't know what he's going to save himself.

I don't see how he can make the U.S. attack him.

and actually afford to give him, let me put it this way, if they give him immunity, it may save him some, so then he'll talk, but how can they give him immunity on everything?

He's the guy that's the separation and the other, he's got two terrible accounts there, but being realistic, he's going to make the case.

He's going to make that the power and the

the office such that you don't punch employees.

Yeah, does that make you awful?

Well- I'd ask Peterson about that.

But if you get- He's gonna go get a lesson.

Well, he's gonna go for a lesson.

That's not what we're gonna do.

On the ground that this young man who's given a job over his head was an identity historian and stuff to be honest with you.

Became so much a tool of these

He was led down this path and ended up doing things purely because he felt he had no choice.

They were not voluntary.

It's not the Nuremberg Docking now.

It's a docking of sympathy for the young man.

And so while we called for the Nuremberg docking, he's building.

Morally, he was going on.

You see the problem we've got here, you see the problem we've got here is that people say they'll have all on earth and resign, okay.

But every nine and a half days, all the swords, the fight ends, let's suppose you do have to resign.

Right, you know.

I don't know, is there a country that wants to... Is there a treaty here?

I don't know.

I thought that Mike Mansfield was going to start something like this, a decent man.

Nobody was.

Right.

That, just by itself, is another way.

So how do you mean, why it has to be like that?

Well, what we have here is the judge.

Well, what's going on in there?

The law would be that the resignation was based on, yes, we let things happen.

And we were at the gate, OK?

We were .

But we don't intent, but we let things happen which shouldn't have happened.

We should have been more alert.

We failed the president.

And the public said, I don't expect that.

It was a big accusation.

So we're supposed to have them have people on these posts.

There's no problem with that.

Well, I put that on Peter's desk.

I said, let's pull their designs.

Let's change the constitution.

I said, no.

We're supposed to have them do that.

We had to stay at that point.

Now, we had to get some support for .

.

I need to say that they were resigned.

I can do the same thing.

So that might satisfy an admission of whatever excuse we want to make in Russia.

It may get to the...

I mean, say, would I never resign?

Well, no.

How could we go now?

I mean, we're going to...

What about an objective?

Now, you have here a credibility case that I'm going to discuss.

In the Martinus patent, the attorney general said, we've met every time.

We've met every time.

I'm satisfied that the indictment did not offer the possibility of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt.

The Attorney General and the entire situation has agreed to dismiss the jury.

The case is adopted, one of us, and it's time to get on to other things to get this case resolved.

Have you had a little sympathy of support for people like Maxfield?

I thought he was.

In another way, everybody wants to turn up, but that's the President.

And by the way, nowhere, no matter where I was, anybody would think that's you.

But, it's still raising questions on what did you try to do.

I think other times, I mean, essentially, the only one that touched me was with Dean.

Dean, after all, we had these long conversations, and as things began to unfold, and particularly when he told me about House Banan, well, that might have sort of touched the U.S., touched the U.S.

I was watching the day, so I heard that we were talking to each other.

We were like, should I cry?

I was meeting with the same number of men at John.

And I thought we should go through quick.

I was also afraid of a headline like today's headline.

I thought you would have done it.

We moved about the right time.

I suppose I should have walked out.

looking around at the mountain being almost about 40 of them in the mountain tonight.

The other thing I don't know is, do we know whether these professors have said anything to me?

So he asked.

I said, that's going pretty far.

Are we getting any information?

What's going on over there?

I don't know.

I don't know what he said.

Oh, are you an effective voice?

What do you do on a subject?

I don't know.

You went out there.

I left around 9.30 and I saw the Secret Service guy standing right behind me and he looked up at me and I said, that's not because you're here right now.

You said I was going to be on the other side.

That's the thing.

Two weeks after being frozen on the floor, you know.

But I must say, in that period, I was on the station.

Sure, sure.

And it was an unsupported statement to be made, but it treated me like that.

Because the U.S. State Department said it affected the last 20 years.

Well, no, you did the right thing.

I think you're right.

And, uh, they that

I didn't know about the tree, but it's been great, but we never did.

All of the women, they don't know how the hell I was ending a war and doing a few other things.

Everybody in the country knows that.

Everybody knows about the German war.

They did build a wall for you, and they weren't taking you against the situation.

They let things happen, and I could understand that.

I was right in the periphery.

We had a tough situation.

It was too bad.

It didn't get to anybody.

Thank God I didn't know.

No, I'm just thinking that somebody had told me about this thing before.

And I would have said, wait, you knew about it?

You know, it probably wouldn't have occurred to me.

I think I was the most, I think I was the most amazed, first of all, that I was born.

I don't know how to describe it.

I don't know how to phrase it.

That's just really, I can't believe it.

For a long time, you thought it was a loop.

You know what I thought?

I couldn't believe John McShane about that.

I thought it was the nuts.

Likely, doing the whole damn thing.

And they had the money.

Exceeding their authority.

That's what I thought there.

Exactly what I thought.

Don't you come into the business of the, uh, of, uh, telling him troubles came up, the whole goddamn thing.

It's the obstruction of that.

And the obstruction that I don't know that's had all of my competitors and it's all coming out.

Well, I do think the thing that we have to do is whether there is any other peripheral efforts that would really stick with that.

But anyway, I got to go to the White House and specifically call them on obstruction.

Is this what I owe someone?

What I owe?

Oh, yeah.

The first day that we met.

These fellows were arrested and lawyers turned up.

They never had a money problem.

But that's fair enough.

There's nothing wrong with that.

Well, I'm getting lawyers for the men.

Well, I think before that, we just hope that they were a big joy.

They were ultra viries.

They were the knowledge that it was being done.

Well, I mean, let's say Ellen's

I don't think that's another thing.

I got exposed to the community without knowledge of this, without knowledge of that, and so on, and everywhere else, and so forth.

It's a question of knowledge, and a knowledge that only the right person or more can have.

Without action, it's not a real thing, but it's certainly a reality.

And, uh, I, I, I don't, I don't know, I don't know if you have to worry about this, but here it is.

This notion of a treaty, to get the whole deal together here, review at this point, the world, and I think there are some, there are some, but I think there are enough here possibly to work out

a pretty rough solution from the standpoint of the executive branch, but one that, I'll explain to you personally, one that causes embarrassment, not so much for evil or law breaking intent, but ineptitude and the fact that it's a long shot, but it's a penalty to see.

Yeah.

You know, I told a member when we came in, I said, John, we carried out a load ban on this stuff, which is true, but I referred to the load, I didn't know what the load was, but I thought we were just keeping everything together, and I'm sick of it, and all that.

We really, we can't just let it go like that.

We really shouldn't say, because we probably can't tell if it's going to produce all that.

I don't believe, I don't know about Dean, but I don't believe in the surge of interest in commercial farms to protect the president.

I think that, I don't know how he feels about that.

I think that I've had relevant with him, considering that he wants to fire all of them over, and I understand that, so that he goes down with it.

But what do you think, how does he feel about his relations with the president?

I think John was great, but I don't know what he thought.

I mean, he went to three colleges.

I don't know what happened to him.

He had that little comment in his book where he, you know, I don't know how much principle he had.

He might have lacked the principle.

I would worry about it.

I had a feeling he would attack anyone, you know, and say anything at this point in time.

It was his purpose.

It was kind of an older friend saying, like, uh, if we're going to go out of this, just keep your head, and you're a lawyer, and I could go after you.

Yes, I have.

Sure, but it was very complex.

It was very complex.

He was worried about it.

Am I too asking?

I saw him on Tuesday afternoon by the door.

Prior to that, prior to that, I was there the week before.

I was scared.

The last time I saw him was on Tuesday.

I studied with the operators on the night, had a look through the night cameras.

He was on camera.

I looked it up.

He said, no, I didn't get a source of information out of that.

He wasn't trained well by anybody.

He had a case made.

He had a case made against, uh, you know, Colton.

Colton ran into the question mark.

And the police took him all the way down the line.

And, uh, you know, I told him, you know, they have a, they have a, they have a young man who's sitting in his room.

He doesn't know where to go.

He's been down and down.

He's buying what he has.

And I haven't had it.

I've done it many times before.

I'm sure you should.

I suggest that Peter should do it.

Get the hell off the premise of this.

I said, this is a person, it's the office.

That's right.

Put it to the office.

But I understand.

And so, I would like to look at it and think that this side would do.

I have a little bit of sense about Peterson's relationship.

Yeah.

Because he was big, big.

I know.

I saw what happened to Pat Gray.

Pat Gray had a couple of big people.

Well, what do you mean Peterson?

Well, I'm just wondering whether Peterson is the one to make this decision.

What his role is, I'm afraid that he may come in.

I wish we could find out if he has said anything.

He may say that all during the trial and so on, that during the grand jury investigation, Mr. Peterson was going to have a grand jury role.

It's certainly not devised in confidence.

What happened to you?

Was that silly?

A dick?

exercise to get started on because some people just like to go on the plane and talk about this and all this stuff.

That's a series of, as you said, the cover-up is worse than the deed.

And no one had an evil intent to think that something in a situation like that should not be this election.

None of it was conducted.

None of it.

Because there's a damn pool of broken rules.

So we can rationalize.

I don't do it every week.

That issue brought changes.

The rest of us, we might not.

So, to borrow this a bit, people got mad a lot, and then I could see the progression myself.

The grad students, they could talk about studies or whatever.

So that Dean and Dean got cut.

That hard, incredible mission that they had, was all they got to end up doing.

I don't think it was that incredible.

I don't think Mitchell got that incredible.

I think he got sick.

I don't know Mitchell.

I think he got sick.

I'd like to know what you think about Peterson.

I don't want to see a headline.

Peterson was collaborating with me.

The man that you called in here on Sunday, and now he says he's qualified himself.

But the top prosecutor turns out to be different.

Yeah.

But the presidency, Dean is the key.

Right.

He was, Christ, he makes the goddamn report for me.

He's the one that I rely on.

He was not a report, but it was an oral report.

Zickler would ask me, where is the press conference?

I don't know.

Anybody want to ask?

Right.

He said no.

I think it was true.

But that was not with regard to the instruction.

That was the whole of the instruction.

Well, uh.

I would like to give the report to you back.

Thank you.