Conversation 430-023

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uh... uh...

His case, thank God, I told you on the phone.

To my knowledge, I agree.

So, you know, I had already made some preliminary checks, but that was nuts.

And why?

Well, they've done this like twice in the name of Christ, and they go to his office.

Well, it's hot.

It's crazy.

That's crazy.

The only thing, come on, there's a lot of medicine to avoid the breeze in this kind of situation.

Mr. Red, first of all,

The United States Army had Jack Anderson in today.

I'm recording right here in his office.

And he's agreed to not to publish anymore.

He's turned it back, that which he had.

Now, Chris, maybe they're due since he submits his stuff to the papers, but they're due in advance.

Well, I think that's, you know, that somebody's putting it out.

I mean, let me say, when I said we're getting live news, that's what I was always suggesting.

I want to make sure you are in a position where you're not just saying, well, it's on

No.

And I told him that that was a possibility.

I told him that we weren't going to do it.

I'd like to see this thing run its course.

Now, Anderson also said, and he said it's a truthful way and a subject to some considerable debate, I think, but he says that his source is a prominent Republican who gave him, paid him, and his purported motive was to prevent a cover-up from the graduates.

The prominent Republican gave the transcript to him.

He, Anderson, does not know how his source, how the prominent Republican had access to the rankers.

And I don't know, unless it comes from the rejection of the report or the press.

The press is seeking confirmation on a story that one of the stenographers of the Hoover Report has been fired.

I don't know if that's true or not.

And secondly, the president of the Washington Post is trying to run out of the glances on the prostitutes as the source of it.

I don't know that that's true.

The acceptance of bars violates the rules and so forth.

It's just one of those things.

You've got to do your best to keep your grand jury open.

You've got to run the dam.

That's right.

But I understand.

I just want to be sure that you and I

Okay.

Now, let me see where we are.

I think I told you about that film, Peter Wolfe's Lawyer.

I ordered him, I suppose the name was fine, but he's done.

It sounds to me, it sounds to me like it must be, my guess is, I'm just guessing, I thought Shepard, I don't know whether he's a harsh man or...

I don't know.

But the point is that it sounds to me like this is probably a hunt.

A hunt, you know, is really not in the plane at that point.

And he said, for Christ's sakes, get over there and get that stuff to Shepard.

I think you'd better run now if you think it's more to hunt than Shepard himself.

I don't know.

If you're bringing Shepard in tomorrow, there you go.

Fair enough.

The boxes were in the box.

Well, we don't know.

We don't know if we're going to keep him in the state.

Good.

Right on.

Now, LaRue, LaRue is, we had to insist that Bill Hundley, who's a very dear friend of mine, was representing both Fred LaRue and John Mitchell, that he choose between one or the two.

And we .

And so he chose to represent John Mitchell.

Fred Vincent is now representing LaRue, and he's their lawyer.

Fred's a good lawyer.

He's the son of the late Chief Justice.

Fred is my son.

And Richard's trying to get the room cleaned, too.

Particularly to the obstruction of subordination.

Not subordination.

Where did he get subordination?

He had a meeting, an English meeting, where he's party to it, but he moved out against it.

Subordination of...

But I thought the people in that conversation that you're talking about were Mitchell.

That's true, but there's a whole hassle involved.

Mitchell, Martin, O'Brien.

That's right, Dean.

With respect to some of the witnesses and the defendants, they're being hit from both sides.

by the lawyers in the civil case for depositions.

If there are witnesses, we say, look, if they come to us, we say, look, we just have to go ahead and do it.

To the extent that there are potential defendants, we tell them they have to go out and get independent legal advice, but then I'm going to take the Fifth Amendment as up to them.

Now, the committee has sent down a letter signed by Sam Dash indicating that they want to immunize E.R.

Hunt

and that their request will come on for hearing in the court on the 3rd of May unless we object.

We're in the United States.

He's already been convicted.

I don't see where any basis to object.

I'm so advised that it's been committed.

Now, that doesn't mean to say that we're not going to try and persuade Senator Irvin and Baker to hold off

Um, but, uh, on that specific record... How could it be called a hold-up if it doesn't be a criminal trial?

Yes.

A trial?

Well, the Magruder thing, we're still where we are when we last talked.

Need to corroborate information.

The attorneys have not agreed to plead at this time about arrangement with either the committee or Judge Serica.

Uh, John Dean, negotiations are pending.

He continues to request immunity.

I want to see the name of all those mails.

The attorney says he has one trump card.

If, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh, if, uh,

The trump card probably is going to be about, or could be about, maybe early on.

This is a hot thing.

Remember, I told you about this business where I told you about it.

I really started my independent investigation with Dean, coming in the 21st of March, saying, look, here are all

I'm just going to take, I mean, how much is it going to cost?

I reckon, maybe a dollar.

How the hell are you going to get a call?

I said, it's wrong.

It can't go in that way.

That's the conversation.

I think you should know that if Dean tries to pull that, because that is the conversation.

I was fortunate to have all that.

The latter part of the conversation are both disgusting.

Well, that's a problem that we can't do anything about here.

The United States Area and the Southern District of New York was

I've been holding Mike Seymour off for about ten days on this thing.

And what the hell does Dean know about the festival?

Allegedly, Dean made a telephone call to S.E.C.

in an attempt to get a subpoena in Washington.

And they're trying to carry John Mitchell, probably.

I don't know.

I don't see more of a co-op in here.

It looks like John is involved in two cases.

Yes, sir.

You don't think about the vestibule people?

Only the top.

Let me see.

I don't.

Only the top.

I know the general nature of the alley.

I'll show you how the damn vestibule people, what a miserable people they are.

You know, I have a younger brother in the attic.

wonderful fellow in the world.

And Harry Sears said, would you stop by and see me, and so forth.

He said, these people want to contribute $200,000.

Should we issue arrests and go out and let the checkpoints in?

Strand said, either that or the end of the conversation.

Did you see what they were trying to do?

They were trying to get the president's brother involved.

I want you to know, that was it.

Very good.

Well, I think I'm going to have to tell Seymour Juan that he can go ahead.

Sure.

Secondly, I'm going to tell him absolutely no deals up there with Dean unless, you know, they have my specific approval.

Third, the political contributions matter that grows out of the MESCO investigations and be handled out of the criminal division by my broad section.

Because I want all of those political contribution cases handled

Oh, it's reasonably the same way.

But not in this grand jury or another grand jury.

Well, some of the facts are coming out in that grand jury, except I reserved the decision on all of those cases to our throw-in section so there'd be some reasonable degree of uniformity in the treatment.

Right, and then have that 8-1 runaway grand jury, is that okay?

Well, rather than have the cases receive different treatment in all 94 districts in the country.

But kept to the bottom of the vessel.

This is the fault of my God, if you know what I mean.

He was hired by, you know, George Smith is a certainly good friend.

My god almighty, Dan DeFesto did retain him for $150,000.

I got ahold of the security for them.

My friend Ramon Bozo, he told me about three weeks ago that Smith was going to DeFesto.

He said, for Christ's sake, George, don't get bogged.

He did nothing about the case, he was just a drill up.

And Samantha is a real chick.

So he got out of that.

But Westville had hired everybody, every lawyer in the county, even Chalker.

Why Chalker was ever didn't represent him.

Westville's obviously a crooked

Thank you.

I see a contribution was returned, but I'll hold it.

Now, let's see.

Jack Calkin confirmed the attempt to have the court feed at the time of the trial.

And those approaches were made to McCord by Calkin on the dean's request.

Dean requested Calkin to get McCord to pay for it.

Yeah, it was the same trial.

rather than stay in charge.

Hopefully guilty.

Yes, sir.

No, sir, he was not.

He just relied upon his knowledge from the CIA and figured he'd take the flyer and try to cock this as a defense.

Or at least build an issue into the case.

Now, there have been some negotiations by Dash, Sam Dash, with Dean's lawyers.

And Dean's lawyers have asked Dash this question.

If we decide to cooperate with you, how soon can you assemble the committee?

And Dash has given an assurance that if he gets that agreement, that he should be in the committee on a 14-hour notice.

So obviously, the employers are trying to play against us and vice versa.

What would you or can you do about that?

Well, I think that's going to abide my conversation with Senator Merriman.

You can't have too much money.

That's right.

But on the other hand, I don't see any anticipation.

Did I tell you about the documents that Gray destroyed?

Oh, yes.

And I told you what those documents report to be.

What do they report to be?

They report to be fraudulent cables from the State Department, which reflect

that John Kennedy, when he was president, was actively involved in the murder of President Xi.

And they're concocting a whole call.

Now that comes from Dean.

Gray says he never raped him.

He got back to his office and tore him up and put him in a wastebasket.

Why does Gray do that?

Just because.

Gray said that...

It's just a question of trust in our department.

And Dean, excuse me.

And he came over to the office.

That's right.

He came over to the office, and they said these are some documents.

They were with Howard Hunt.

They're utterly unrelated to a Watergate case.

They're politically sensitive, and they ought to be destroyed here.

But we discussed this once before.

I hope we don't have to bring that up.

I share that.

but deans use them.

Yup, the deans' lawyers are using them.

I've gone to Canterbury and I've told him that he's probably going to have to be a witness to go to Granger on this issue.

Yup.

What do you recall?

He was a defendant in Florida where letters were written to me, Senators Jackson and Humphrey,

from the primary down there.

For some period of time, there's been an investigation going on, setting a violation of the corrupt practices act.

Two people have been identified.

One fell by an abandoned mother of a woman, whose name I don't recall at the moment.

We have now some informing information.

We're going to have to source it.

Newspaper man, to be honest with you.

Sure.

We'll interview Cigretti, but Cigretti is the back of that

That's why you put something for me.

We will probably immunize these two people in order to get to Segretti, and that develops that a little bit very fast.

That's the first decent lead we've had on Segretti that indicates an actual violation.

That's probably why you put it.

Yes, he's very scared, I'm told.

And of course, when we get that, we're going to assist him in the cooperation and see what he has to say about it.

There's also some guests, some educated guests, and he's responsible for a globe ladder, or something, I must say.

But that is hearsay information only.

I have no corroboration on that at all.

So, he ever met somebody, let's see why.

I've never met any of those people.

The only good thing about this is that I, at least, I don't think that I

I haven't met any of the persons.

Liddy?

Oh, yes.

Well, Liddy's a very great man.

Marvelously precise, well-written, and brilliantly thought out narration.

They give him a general problem, but he gives out the whole narration.

I don't know.

Tom Connelly is a very good friend of mine.

That was conveying Tom Connelly and Peter Carolla's book directly.

Connelly says, called me and said, I'm enjoying it.

You're absolutely right.

The president's right.

I'm a guy who refuses to accept my advice.

There's no longer any reason for me to represent him.

He has to leave the court to withdraw.

The rule is still to represent him.

Then he went to the job with us, as head of one of our strike forces, and we didn't think he was sufficiently balanced.

The day before the break, he was in my office.

He wanted me to sign a letter, which would say that, or literally, before the day,

He told a great man, tried to tell a great man, sign a letter.

He wanted me, well, he wanted a letter.

My approval for Klein used to sign a letter saying the specific provision of the Corrupt Practice Act was unenforceable from the viewpoint of the Justice Department.

Although I had some problems, but, you know, we could not say that.

We might lose it, ultimately, but we certainly can attempt to enforce it.

And we had a bitter, bitter argument, and I refused to...

The question arises, the Congress made an exception with respect to certain corporations.

The question is, what effect does that have on

as individuals.

And we took the position that no, they cannot.

And his argument was, well, you know, I think there's some constitutional problems there in terms of the rights of those people who contribute as individuals.

But they're not sufficiently clear for us in the Department of Justice to say that's what we have about them.

Unenforceable.

I was going to come over here and show you how far I went away from the death campaign.

I don't understand him.

You know, why?

Why?

He's a crazy woman.

He loves her.

He loves her and she should have shot her years ago.

I don't even know what I'm supposed to know about her.

Jesus Christ.

Poor John.

I know he was busy.

He should have left her.

Why did he try to do it?

Well, go ahead and

Maybe not go ahead.

I don't know.

But Jesus crashed poor John in a person.

I honestly like that man.

I really feel sorry for him.

I really love him as a individual.

He's got to get sacked.

He's got to get back to work.

I'm afraid so.

I had Kate and Nicole.

They left me connected with a subpoena.

I was directed to him.

The Vesco case.

His diary was coming through, and I was turning it back on, and there was something that was too broad, and I told my assistant, you know, I called up there, and it was about 10 o'clock at night, and he was like, babe, she answered the phone.

And I don't want to hurt someone.

She was so faithful about it.

She just took it all away from me.

She wore it.

Yes.

I talked to her for years.

She did not sound drunk.

She just sounded demanding.

She is demanding.

She's crazy.

It's just terrible.

Let me ask you a couple things.

Well, I've been sticking straight to the language case and trying to think of what's the right thing to do and the right thing to do to get this out.

I remember your words that you spoke something that speaks well for you.

Terrible.

the president he's got to live with this i know it's a 24-hour day job well it's not known he's also got a little bit of innocence killed et cetera et cetera we all know the same thing and uh so i don't do the right thing i don't do the right thing about me and about even me although i mean that's not a problem

I saw, if you don't know, I had seen Mr. Wilson.

I saw him this morning at my request.

I said, I'd like to tell you a dance.

and they are not.

I hope that's right.

I hope that's right, but I don't know.

I at least want to hear from their audience.

I said, all right, Paul, so I want you to put it down to the right.

I can't ask you to tell them to jump, jump, jump.

I haven't got anybody in my staff now that I can guarantee that you've got a record call.

Well, Earth and me, my two lawyers, are hung up at the present time, so I can't get anybody in.

So I have an almost impossible position.

It's not easy.

It's not easy, but it's my responsibility.

I assume responsibility for this whole thing.

I'm not going to ask, you know, I wrote it at the perfect time to say to you,

I am sure if you don't believe this now, if you say this, if there was one person that had belief,

no knowledge whatever about what I mean.

You've got to believe that.

And you know what they say?

And I don't think anybody is suggesting that I have knowledge of what I mean.

Not even me.

But I have knowledge.

Second, with regard to the cover-up.

I have a colleague of the, the, what they call the, the call, the count box, you know, you get a great spot.

I had no knowledge of the three of them.

He was never discussing them.

He said, why didn't all of them?

Well, I suppose the reason is quite different.

People forget that that was the time.

the election was the least of my concern, my major concern, instead of the war in Vietnam, where we were negotiating not to sell, but they were keeping it from me.

I'm glad they did, as a matter of fact.

I would address that question, because I expect things like that to be kept in the prison, quite honestly.

Well, for example, there was some story that, in fact, one of Colston's aides, I suppose you said, out of the war in December in Baltimore, that is,

I can assure you of a motion that we had.

I called Pliny right away, and I said, for Christ's sake, what is this?

Huh?

When I got into the early investigation, we made a mistake early in this investigation.

Pliny said, I'm not going to use your name personally.

And what a point.

It was still in June, early in July.

And I said, get this damn story out.

And I said, I mean, the earlier ones were absolutely correct.

You know, when I was older, we got to knock a meeting.

I said, I want McGregor to get out the story of the committee, and I want the White House to turn it.

I said, let it out.

I said, I don't know what the hell it is, but get it out.

But we were here for a meeting.

I was just reading a picture.

primarily concerned about Metro, primarily.

Maybe concerned somewhat about himself, I don't know.

Maybe about himself, I don't know what your country is, but anyway, he carried himself.

He was the man that had the responsibility, but on the other hand, on the other hand, he didn't know me.

Frankly, I didn't ask him, and he, but I didn't know him, I didn't know him.

It was not basically,

of the case myself.

And it was March 21st when I had this conversation with Dean, but to his credit, because I had asked him, I said, John, and I had been asking him, I said, John, where are you reporting this thing?

Make it to the Capitol.

Make it to the congressional leaders.

As to what the hell this is all about, I said, about, and let it hang out there, whatever it is.

And so he came in, and it was that confident that he made what he calls

I said, John, why not?

He said then, I said, are you a father?

Did you ever agree on it?

He said, no.

See, because Sigler had made the statement, and I made the statement on this 19th that nobody in the White House knows about it.

What do we base that on?

On what Dean told us.

And you had no information at that point to indicate it.

Do you agree with it?

No, you don't do this.

Did he?

Fine.

All right.

But then he came in.

I said, no.

He says, the problem, however, is we've got to do that.

And then he went into a difference about the, for the first time, I heard about the launch and about the com operators.

I heard some money.

I heard about the, I didn't know who the hell was doing it.

the Cubans, I heard about the Cubans and all the rest of this other thing, but believe me, that was the thing farthest from my mind.

And they were right to keep it from me, in the sense that what was more important was to do my job, I suppose, I suppose.

Except that.

Except that, as it turned out, there was a better life, and I could step in.

But I didn't.

I started my personal investigation.

I had talked to David Moore several times.

He talked about heroin and about all of it.

And he came to the canister in the heart of the presidency and said, well, tell me what it is.

And then he said, he blurted out about the race in the United States.

He blurted out about the possibility that the words were being thrown out of my question.

The possibility that an M in the sentence that he dropped out of the district was really tricky with regard to Hunt.

Hunt, and this is actually in the fire assessment, whose attorney hit him.

Addison told O'Brien, O'Brien, that they needed to hunt Peter Doherty, one of the other covers attorneys speaking to the governor, and his facts.

And I went into a long conversation with people.

And I was frankly trying to draw them out of what in the hell this was about.

Who was going to get it?

The upshot of which I said, well, you can't go down that road.

He's Hebrew.

I said, that's blackmail.

I said, why do you have to be concerned about Hunts?

Was it because of Hunts?

This is where he has done an early attempt because of Hunt's knowledge of the Ellsberg and other matters of Hunt.

All national security agencies are in Georgia.

I can assure you that Hunt, to my knowledge and the dean's knowledge, is engaged only in national security activities.

While he was a point hunter, that is what we call the elite operation that he apparently was involved in.

And on that case, the Ellsberg then, and that's what I think you're getting at here,

So when that thing ended up, he also went up to Sierra Leone, apparently that day, wrote and said, no dice, I'm not going to, thank God, we can't do anything here.

All of us are doing it.

And whether or not O'Brien, or whether or not Pittman got his money, I don't know.

Do you think he got it?

We're told it's $156,000.

What happened as a result of this conversation?

That I don't know.

Well, I want you to know about that conversation because I want you to know how to deal with being racist.

Because let me say one thing.

I think you've got this problem.

I have raised the problem very candidly about the question of

That's your decision.

But Henry, we can't make the immunity thing the basis of blackmailing the president.

I agree with the president.

I don't think he's blackmailing him.

If your purpose is to get the dice, to get the dope on Hollywood or Earth, you get it.

You understand.

But if he says, look, I want to say that I talked to the president about the crime

of whether or not we can get this money.

And the president said, well, we can get the money, et cetera, et cetera.

I want you to know that he was totally there.

This is a road you can't go down.

And if you don't believe me on this, understand, I don't ask you to believe me anymore than anybody else.

I don't lie to people.

And I didn't rely on it, Mr. President.

You may throw me out of here sometime for what I say, but I'll never lie to you.

I forgot the precise language, but you had a good word together.

And whatever it was, it seems to me that, first, you're right that I hate my father.

I agree.

Yes, sir.

Because I'm having an impact.

I'll tell you what.

got built on early that time, got built on all of them.

And you were aware, Mr. President, of the fact that we were trying to get money from them.

But the point is, I was aware of the point first, but I told you, we got into this, you know what I mean?

I was, I was an investigator trying to get to the bottom of the countdown.

Who was, which is my duty?

Frank, that's it.

I don't know what you said, you know, he, he,

You certainly can't blackmail me.

You can't blackmail me.

You can't blackmail you.

There's a dead cell.

No.

He'll try.

That's a proposition.

If he decides he's going to embarrass any one of the three of us, I'm making his hands count.

He's just going to have to do it.

All right.

If he tries to blackmail the president, the problem is that they will be the kind of people who just got to the end of the republic.

That's right.

How do we handle it?

My view is I think we've come to the harder places.

Well, I think...

Shouldn't you have a talk with him soon?

I mean, this business of letting Dave move in for this thing, and having him come out that way, and to go out there and splash him right now, I don't know.

I understand.

I am not suggesting that.

I'm not suggesting that.

I'm not going to tell you why, because at this point, I have no disposition to do any of that.

uh the prosecutors in the first instance were in favor of threatening the union they've begun to share from that i hope not just because of my statement remember i said it is my view that no i think they recognize that they're beginning to recognize belatedly that he's too important to figure in the hierarchy uh to be accorded that kind of treatment also i suppose

He has to think he can get more favorable treatment, however, from us.

that committee.

And if he goes to that committee, he's still going to have to deal with us, ultimately, because we have the power to prosecute him.

Well, looking at him, certainly you have a lot of committee here in the district, and probably a lot of people in the board of committee, as you said, is there...

I don't know.

You know, I've never heard him express anything but admiration for you.

And he said to me at the time that you were debriefing him when an issue about the gray documents came up, about the documents that they had turned over to gray, that he might, what he said, he said, I will not lie.

I'm not going to lie to that guy name early.

That's the way you put it.

For the president, that's something else.

So I don't know what he's going to do.

But I think that we have to keep him together.

I just want you to know that if anything comes up, if he starts anything about the fact that there's any ever discussion with the president, with the president in regard to paying off time and so forth.

We've got somewhere.

I have told you to understand.

We've got somewhere.

What is it?

First of all, he says, one, they want to go against with me if the decision on immunity goes against them.

If the decision on immunity does go against them, that's when they're going to use this last factor.

That will put me on notice.

And it will evaluate at that point, I hope, because it will put you on notice, but you can't even then, we can't grant it.

Frankly, letting him blackmail the president, we'd be going to jail the rest of our lives.

We're damn well not going to do that.

Because I, believe me, I'm not going to, I would never approve to pay an offer on after the fact.

Mr. President, I'm going to have my eyes wired.

I'm going to have my eyes wired.

And unless they absolutely refuse to come there, I will record conversations with them.

That's going to be a very vital conversation.

And if that's the only thing I can think of, and if that kind of attempt is made, then we'll have a recorded record.

And the point being is it will be done.

I wanted that, but I want you to understand.

I've told you everything I know.

I assume that Gray will be able to do that for me.

But if I run, the lucky candy FBI

Well, I want you to know that we're going to get this out because the presidency's got to go ahead here.

I've got enormous problems ahead of the presidency right now.

Can you, for me, eyes open?

Give me your evaluation.

Your case against Hall, you might be getting a little sheet of paper, but it's part of that policy.

Do you do that much?

It's still incomplete.

I'll give you what we have to think.

Yes, sir.

I want you to give me your evaluation of, I understand, I'm talking about the legal evaluation, or other judgments.

I'm sorry.

Beyond that, I'll have to think.

Well, let's talk about this.

Well, today, tomorrow, today is

well we've just pulled in the grand jury transcripts by friday friday i don't want to rush you second question

to urge, and I know you do not want to have that justification.

I just want to urge that you ask the prosecutor to get that vote in soon.

The president's got to make a judgment on that.

I've got an exam on that.

You know what I mean?

If you get it back, you know, in one of those things where, what do you call it?

No notes and all that sort of thing.

However you want to do it.

Or under any other way you want to do it.

I'd like you to do that.

Can you do that?

John Wilson is being advised that if he wins such a conference that he can request it.

Let me say, I'm requesting the conference.

Right now.

I can't tell them that.

Well, they're already suspicious enough.

Oh?

Yes, I am.

Oh, well.

All right.

All right, then.

Yes, it will be a procedure then.

I'm telling you that I want it.

It will be accomplished.

Let me tell you this.

I'll see that Wilson, that's it.

I'll see that Wilson demands it, asks for it tomorrow.

Is that all right?

That's correct.

And that they come in.

I want them examined.

I want to know what the hell they said.

All right.

Fair enough?

Very good.

I think I've got to have that.

The other thing is that I think is, I think that, I know we've been around this track before, and I know you've kind of been frustrated that you do, but the way this thing is going, I think that, that you have got to, to push faster and get it, sort of, get the goddamn indictments out there.

I didn't need to be destroyed.

I said, you'll be destroyed.

I didn't process it.

I'm the committee.

I'm the press.

I don't know.

I know you've got it.

You're an average stenographer, etc., etc., etc.

Basically, you have got a hell of a lot of information.

I'd like to get that before that grand jury as soon as you can.

I want it to be there.

I just want you to know that I made this.

I have heard you

I'm telling you, I want my men up there, and I want my men to stand up, and I want them to avoid that damn rancher, and I want them on their boat, and I want you to cross and stand on them until hell breaks loose.

If we do this thing, we may have to recall.

That's all right.

I do not object.

I do not object to recall.

I have asked the council to recall.

I understand that.

They should be up there.

I don't understand what kind of case we're dealing with.

It's a testimonial case with reluctant witnesses all along the locus, all of whom are shading the testimony.

And some of them were, you know, we have to recall four or five times and just call it a fact.

I just want to be sure that, let me tell you one more thing.

I want to be sure.

not sitting on his ass.

I said last Tuesday, I said, I want the vaccine.

I'm telling you today, I want my man called up there and treated like everybody else did.

Get him up there.

You've got plenty of stuff to ask him about.

And then recall him unnecessarily.

I think it's a better image for you to do that than I see you for the prosecution.

But you call her all the time.

You know what I mean?

Now, in the meantime, I have got the problem.

uh which i think really have to be separated the way dean is gone now you've got to separate him and they're all going to be hurt and they're all going to be in the back of my fight is uh

They believe the rest.

They believe.

And at the present time, I believe so.

But I haven't.

You're going around and I want to see their attorneys.

Yours, I'll get Friday their attorneys.

I'll tell you, I'll get that on May 2.

I'll try to get them both on Friday afternoon.

The other point is that I've got to do.

basically from what he told me in March 2013.

your point, and it's also mine, because I realize this, that they are not meant to be serving the President.

And I can see that.

True of me, true of all of me, possibly, probably, true of her, possibly, that's the way I would make it.

I think she's put it in my expectations as well.

The point is, is that when I, on the other hand, on the other hand,

We have to wait and wait and wait for a month.

The problem is very, very great in terms of proceeding on that line, because as I was saying, you can see what I'm getting at is, does the president get on and make the determination based on what he has learned, not from the grand jury, which he's not told you about, but from the investigations he's made, the statements he's made, and so forth, from being basically a professional.

all right do i say based on that that i therefore find they resign i can't that's something i am not ruling out so i'm not prepared to make that judgment now i may have to make that judgment

I understand.

Because of the things that are going to be said.

Here, you and I are sitting on information.

There is no question about Dean's doing this.

Any questions?

No, I don't know.

In other words, he's indictable as of today.

The only question is whether or not he'd immunize you.

Well, he's indictable on the basis of what he's told you.

He's not indictable on the basis of what he's told us.

Well, that puts me in a spot, but basically, I think on that,

His conversation with me, he considered me very impressed.

I didn't feel that stuff.

Well, his conversation with us was privileged, too.

So I can't say that I'm going to be in Minnesota.

And also, I'm part of the prosecution.

I think the orderly conduct of this case requires now that I wait to be in the prosecution.

Well, there's another aspect to this one.

Dean Fleury made what I think is an awful mistake when he said that.

Well, it's information.

I think they were taunting us.

They turned it over.

They said, now, you know what you've got to do with this.

I think they were betting that we would not.

And if we did not, then they had us in a terrible position.

Indeed so.

Now, when we turned this over, I'm sure Judge Berger said, the people I turned it over to do not know that Dean Sassourian became disclosed for what

as a source of the information.

They're going to have to go back over here now and say that it's Dean.

Then Dean's going to be called.

When Dean makes this admission, he's going to have to lose a whole lot of his bargaining power.

He's out in the open.

He's going to be naked.

He's going to be in that courtroom.

He's going to be making this statement about the burglary.

But in that statement, in that prophecy,

No, but I mean, he'll say, well, I assume there's a reason.

I haven't got any information.

Well, you know, he would say,

Why was this thing undertaken?

Because people say, well, it's a national security investigation undertaken by, uh, by the White House.

I don't think so.

What else?

I don't think so.

There's a possibility that James Byrd will not do that.

I don't think that's what he's saying.

He hasn't been changed or something like that.

Your counsel for the other side, not sufficient, critical, no evidence that's been used or what have you.

That's not what it looks like.

We've got to defend the local package for the defense out there.

We've got to still vote the judge's choice, you know, make sure it's very self-overruled, presiding over the defense.

I'm not speaking disparagingly, but I think Judge Burns is a very fine man, and I do that.

Well, I left instructions when I left for them to communicate with the prosecutor immediately.

He's probably hollering and fighting and raising down right now, and I'm sure he's not going to want to do that.

The prosecutor is not going to want to, he will not want to disclose.

But he said, you know, I've never heard anything like this.

There probably isn't anything in the case.

You know, let's, you know, let's say, you know, I have a story.

Uh...

the team's lowest security power.

national security stuff involved breaking of the law where it's purely clandestine activity with no prosecution involved so you're not bringing any further obligation that's one thing

The only thing I want you to do is stay away from the train for eight or ten minutes.

So you get no easy decisions up here, just a question of how much risk you want to assume

Dick Morton?

No, uh, they issued a subpoena and then they let him go back and, uh,

They don't do help.

You got to impress on these fellows.

They're trying to do a job.

And that's what we want them to do.

But there's a line that has to be drawn to investigate Watergate and not investigate the presidency.

I know where that line is.

I can't describe it for them.

I can't alleviate it.

But it's there.

And that judgment has to be made every step of the way.

I thought they were putting President Harding on the news.

And wherever they got the tape, I don't know, but his voice of anything could tell you my...

I'd be able to rationalize better.

I mean, part of the difficulty with this damn thing is there's such a total absence of rationalization and reasonable motivation.

Well, I guess the motivation, you see, was not completely before the election, but after the election.

Good God, what the hell does this mean now?

Right?

They could have won three against you.

I weren't going to beat you to it.

I just don't know how far down the road he's going.

What do you do in your evenings now?

Do you go to rest?

Well, you know, the night before that, I didn't sleep worth a damn.

I was stewing about all night, but, you know, it was one of those nights, the next night to sleep better.

Well, you've got to be very, very confident now that I admit that there's nothing the President deserves.

I'm not going to be blackmailed.

I'm not going to be blackmailed about life, but I have really, I really,

Thank you.