Nixon White House Tapes › Tape 433 › Conversation 433-028
Nixon & Bull on Watergate and White House Staff
Tuesday, May 1, 1973 · 5:19 PM–5:31 PM ET · Old Executive Office Building · 10 min
AI Summary
President Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met to discuss administrative scheduling, including upcoming meetings with Roy Ash and David K. E. Bruce, and plans for the President’s family trip to Key Biscayne. The conversation shifted toward the Watergate scandal, with Nixon expressing frustration over Vice President Spiro Agnew’s lack of vocal support and the perceived disloyalty and press-leaking within the White House staff and NSC. Nixon also addressed the impending departures of top aides H. R. Haldeman and John Ehrlichman, emphasizing a need for tighter control and better staff discipline during this period of political turbulence.
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Transcript (AI-generated)
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Yeah, I'm telling him that this is convenient.
That's right.
I'll put him on a Thursday discussion.
I'll put it on so it's open.
So that, uh, you have, uh, Senator Bruce at 10 o'clock.
An hour should be enough.
Half hour.
Bruce, half hour.
Bruce is at 10 o'clock.
We'll put Ash on for 9 o'clock.
Good.
And I assume you want Ken Cole to sit in there?
No.
Okay, Cole should be with him now.
I mean, I understand this is a budget trade, on the matter of this and that.
I can't describe the amount of condonability.
Oh, well, if he wants to bid, fine, fine, all right, sir.
If he's making a departure tonight, he's going to be out of the stand the first day.
He'll be gone.
He'll not be gone.
He'll be gone.
Oh, yeah, sure, the whole family.
All the family, all right, sir.
Would you like Rose to go or anyone else?
Or are you going to go to the office?
No, I'll go.
I'd like to go.
I don't plan any work at all this time.
I'd say that, really, the President says if she'd like to go, we'd be delighted to have her, but that, I mean, you know, maybe she'd like to take Claudia down or something.
She'd like to go and take Claudia down with her.
We, you know what I mean?
It's not something where I want her to feel she has to, she's going to work, and frankly, I'm not going to be able to entertain her.
So when I say roads and presences, if you want to take off three or four days, this might be a nice thing for you to take a body of down and go.
It goes without saying, you all know what you're going to get about this time off.
I'm asking you to go to any crazy events or anything.
It's going to come out all right.
I've got the vice president on a bit of notice.
Get him off his ass and start doing a little work.
Poor guy doesn't do something that dumb when he talks to people.
He doesn't realize how the press will distort anything he said, you know, and gets out there that he thinks the Watergate's a terrible thing and all that kind of stuff.
Well, he should have spoken up when he had the opportunity.
And a cabinet meeting.
A cabinet meeting.
Speaking at the meeting, listening.
I don't know.
See, I think he was in public forum the last couple of days.
He's never said a word.
Well, I gave it to him the day before.
I don't think there was much he could have said.
He should have just left Rutgers and put a little in Armstrong and Bush.
Where the hell was he?
It was a good lesson to him.
And a good lesson to him.
But we're going to give a few lessons around here now.
The shop, I think, needs a little of that.
What do you think?
somebody they thought that fbi i was so shocked i just
and was enraged.
I don't know how that word got out.
Perhaps someone saw it.
I don't know how the press would have seen it.
I'm going to go down and see Henry here.
He's a good, loyal staff.
But it isn't just a matter of fear that I don't save this for your benefit.
There's an echo on the one to you.
Why do you think they're leaving now, then?
I don't think we have got...
There's some people down in the depths around here who may have access to the information.
Some are older than other people, maybe not even related to the White House, standing facing the building houses, all sorts of oddballs, some of these NSC people.
This is just my opinion.
NSC?
Well, I mean, just, you know...
I couldn't put a finger in any of it, but I'd say the characters come over to the State Department and question who's side they're on, and who knows who's in this building, too.
I don't know if there's any information at times.
I said, you buy them on, of course.
The one who's asking you to do the jacking, I said, buy someone on.
I said, who's that?
It's a hero.
But essentially, I think you've got a very good one.
Oh, I know we have.
I think they're great.
I like them all.
We just have to take them to the shipper.
You've got to work well with Ewan.
Ewan Rhodes and...
I'm going to work on scheduling the calls and the letters that I see and try to keep the crap out.
In addition, I see my own function being sort of a bridge to the east wing, if you want to call it that.
Yeah, you have a bridge to the east wing, because I see some rows and parts that are going to be sort of in the hole for a moment, so that everything doesn't come into my office.
That's the reason I want to see A, because I've got to have A to keep it from dropping out.
that we have a good basic structure and a good understanding of how you want to work, and most people do, in the gallery slides.
A lot of this has been here during the formal stages, during the first term of administration, because we had a familiarity with how to make this model work, and how best to serve you, and bundle it in through establishing how, in which we've had a change of names, some of the people that we'll establish are going to be able to work effectively with these people.
He's got a good handle on things.
Maybe he's going to move along a little bit.
We have a question from Twitter.
Hey, Dave.
I don't think he's involved in any illegal way anymore than Bob is, but you know what I mean?
If anybody, if there's anything that maybe he saw these papers on why he's going to have to leave, I mean, he knows that.
I hope not.
I hope not.
But he killed us.
He's got a good shot.
I don't know.
He got a job.
It's him that I think is starting to, now that he's been given the obligation to go ahead and move out, he can and will do the job.
Yeah.
Oh, wow.
Yeah, I think everybody has to go through these.
We all go through these periods.
We have more than our share.
They're rugged, not some, because Bailey affected people that I have such great affection for, Bob and John.
So, it's a rough, rough time.
I think, I think we're gonna have a couple more stormy seas, but oh sure, there'll be, there'll be crap along the way.
Last time, I think there were all of us that, yeah, low-level people had, had, uh,
I think he's a group.
They're guys like Dick Howard.
You may not know him, but he's a strong individual.
He'll go around and kick some of your ass.
I hope for Christ he did.
No, he's clean.
Colson would be clean.
He should.
Colson didn't have you involved.
That's my answer.
I think that should be Colson.
If Howard had been involved in any of this stuff, I think if Howard had been involved in any of this stuff, it would have gone right.
Well, I don't know.
Oh, for God's sake.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Thank you.
NARA Description
On May 1, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:19 pm to 5:31 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 433-028 of the White House Tapes.
Nixon Library Finding Aid
Conversation No. 433-28
Date: May 1, 1973
Time: 5:19 pm - 5:31 pm
Location: Executive Office Building
The President met with Stephen B. Bull.
President’s schedule
-Roy L. Ash
-Quadriad meeting
-Spiro T. Agnew
-Dr. David K. E. Bruce
-Ash
-Kenneth R. Cole, Jr.
-Budget, trade
-Key Biscayne
-President’s family
-Rose Mary Woods
-Claudia [last name unknown]
Watergate
-Agnew
-Statements
-Press distortions
-Reticence
-Cabinet, congressional meetings
-Cabinet meeting
-Staff response
-William P. Rogers, Anne L. Armstrong, [Ash] [?], and
George H. W. Bush
-Leaks
-Leonard Garment
-Federal Bureau of Investigation [FBI] man outside H. R. (“Bob”)
-14-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM
Haldeman’s office
-Press
-Henry A. Kissinger
-White House staff
-Loyalty
-Haldeman’s management
-Fear
-President
-National Security Council [NSC]
-State Department
-Jack N. Anderson
White House staff
-Loyalty
-Bull’s role
-Woods and David N. Parker
-Scheduling telephone calls
-Letters
-East Wing
-Ash
-Functioning
-Domestic Council
-Bruce A. Kehrli
-Lawrence M. Higby
-Watergate
-Haldeman
-Possible departure
-William E. Timmons
-Haldeman and John D. Ehrlichman
-W. Richard Howard
-Strength
-John N. Mitchell [?]
-Watergate
-Charles W. Colson
President’s schedule
-State dinner
Bull left at 5:31 pm.
-15-
NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUMAlso recorded on May 1, 1973
- 908-028 5:10 PM · 2 min — United States Secret Service agents met in the Oval Office of the White House at an unknown time between 5:10 pm and 11:59 pm.
- 433-029 5:31 PM · 9 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:31 pm and 5:35 pm.
- 045-095 5:35 PM · 23 sec — White House operator and President Richard M. Nixon talked on the telephone at 5:35 pm.
- 433-030 5:35 PM · 19 sec — White House operator and President Richard M. Nixon met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at 5:35 pm.
- 045-096 5:38 PM · 2 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Paul W. Keyes talked on the telephone from 5:38 pm to 5:40 pm.
- 433-031 5:38 PM · 1 min — President Richard M. Nixon and Paul W. Keyes met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:38 pm to 5:40 pm.
- 045-097 5:40 PM · 13 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator talked on the telephone at an unknown time between 5:40 pm and 5:43 pm.
- 433-032 5:40 PM · 11 sec — President Richard M. Nixon and White House operator met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 5:40 pm and 5:43 pm.
Cite this conversation
Conversation 433-028, May 1, 1973. White House Tapes, Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, National Archives. Audio and AI transcript via Easy Nixon, https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/433-028 (accessed October 5, 2026).