Nixon, Haig & Sanchez on Watergate and White House Staffing

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Another problem that I thought you might want to bring in, and it just has occurred to me, there's a very tough building that's having some kind of action.

There's, I think, people working on busting.

Ed Morgan, you know Ed Morgan, the person who did the bussing thing, I don't know who it is.

Santorelli, Santorelli.

I'd get him in too.

Santorelli, Chubb, Shrewd.

We need as many, we need the best guys.

I think we ought to get Santorelli in.

And see if Ed Morgan, you know him, you can talk to him, can't you?

Yes, sir.

Well, I know you can.

I talked to him.

I said, Ed, who is the best son of a bitch over here that we can get?

Uh, you've got that.

I think Santorelli is the best myself.

I've, uh, he's got figures and so on.

And, now, that gives you a team.

That's a team.

That's what, yeah, does our team.

Captain's a team.

That's a problem.

It's got to be you.

I could, you know, I could do much else.

I could be a lawyer and be captain of this team.

Thank you.

God damn him.

They don't like to take pictures all the time.

They just knock us by the head sometimes.

How about that for sure?

I think that's a good way to do it.

Sure.

Now, he may never be here.

Well, he may never be here.

He may never be there.

I think the man needs him.

How can you tell us?

Well, I...

I think...

I think he's over there.

Let me see.

Playing a lot of cards.

He's got a goddamn safe full of documents.

All the things he's written.

Don't be surprised about his documents, because this man is a consummate liar, I can tell.

It's all there, but it's not true.

Let alone me.

Now, the other man that we might get into this is Conner.

I didn't mention him today, but, you know, we just may have to say, John, I don't have a problem with your advice.

How are you?

of a bitch.

He's got tremendous judgment and all the rest.

Well, we can't keep up.

And on a thing like this, you know, you talk about what you are calling me to do.

There's nothing more important in this country than you can do this.

Thanks to this son of a bitch, Dean.

The most important job we have.

God, why is she concerned about

for work for us, for Christ's sake.

It isn't like a little goddamn YOLO, you know, that did that horrible thing to Henry.

This son of a bitch was counseled.

This is like Sonnenfeld.

Huh?

Right?

Or him.

Right?

God almighty.

I think that is going to have some effect on the country, I don't know.

Or I guess, is the country all crazy?

Is it all crazy?

You really look at the wide time magazine,

How much does the president know?

Rarely.

But they've been after me for years.

They're trying to get at me for other reasons.

The word gives me something else.

That's right.

Who the hell has proven them totally wrong?

For years, they have been crazy.

They know it.

They lost in the election.

They lost in Vietnam.

They lost in Russia.

They lost on China.

They lost on Seoul.

You know, everything that they thought, we screwed.

And we'll screw them again.

The main problem is for me to keep my, as I pointed out to you, I've got to keep.

I don't want to be, I do not want to be believed.

You must not keep me from anything.

that I need to know in order to make a decision.

But I must be kept from the day-to-day ending of a garment or somebody else rushing in with the best of intentions.

Oh, God, we've got to help from what?

Jesus, I may not be the best one to do this.

I'm so busy.

See, garment doesn't realize.

Take him as an example.

You know how.

Christ, by today, I have proved a very important cable to Henry.

For Christ's sake, that's what I ought to be doing rather than thinking about discipline.

And I'm not complaining about it.

You see what I mean?

They don't seem to realize that I've got to run the goddamn family.

I just can't be worried about how do we do it because John Dean's going to testify before the Senate.

You should work it out.

That's right.

He either does or he doesn't.

i don't want to forget the impression though i mean they had an impression all of them he really did all of them just first to be thought out as you know you must do the same thing but let them think

That's a hands-on, but I'm not concerned with that at all.

You know, the point is, you know, executive management can be used only so much, and then all of a sudden there ain't no more.

I've got to use it for the big plays out.

God, we must make a mistake or not.

We must make a mistake on the salt.

We must make a mistake on it.

I'm not going to do it.

Just because of this goddamn silly incident.

That's why we've got to have somebody here.

And Buzz Hart has got it.

I just want to have somebody handling it.

Even if you said, but I can say, see, let me say, I have, I, I love Len Karmann, but I know he is

Emotional.

Really?

Or do you?

I don't know.

Actually, he's as bright as hell.

Oh!

Really smart.

Really.

But he's a stable, tough guy.

That's what he's called.

He's stable.

Totally.

The old man?

Oh, yes.

But him in charge.

He ran with the best of us.

I understand.

He will be in charge.

He's to learn the damn case from one end to the other.

By God, let's have him run.

But now you see you've got Anglin.

And then we may just decide we've got to use Conway to knock this son of a bitch off.

Bazaar?

No.

Bazaar is not only tough and a good lawyer, but he's...

He's been on the counterattack?

He's wrong.

Good.

Adam Clements had said, God, you take the right thing.

He said, Father, don't sit here with the government today.

This Clements did this soldier.

He gave his right arm for us.

Some other asshole over at Transportation would say, well, I need him because we've got a problem.

I'm saying, Antonio.

Clements didn't say that, did he?

He said, this is the man for the job.

You don't really be able to.

But I want you to get him in.

I want you to thoroughly breathe.

Thoroughly, thoroughly, so he knows the whole goddamn thing.

But we've got to get him.

You think we'll get the deed of papers tomorrow or not?

Well, I say maybe the next day.

There may be some squabbles.

The judge may not give it to us.

He may not give it to us.

How did this thing work?

He gave the key to the judge or the prosecutor?

To the judge.

Or as he said, I have put these documents in there for the purpose of the case.

And he is with the judge.

And he has it.

And he's never exercised the option of looking at it.

The idea being that any trial involves...

When did he do this, though?

When did he do this?

I think this was done...

Thursday of last week.

They've had it all this time.

Friday, I called Richard and I said, get what the demand is for the paper.

He said, fine, I will.

They didn't call back over the weekend, but we ended up getting a piece of paper.

So I wrote a letter.

to every Monday morning.

And they've been fighting over there in Justice Village since, asking whether or not this is the right thing to do when they find the scientific blocks.

Poor Elliot, in fairness.

Look, he'll be confirmed when he's going to go through a weapon, ship through a goose, there's no problem.

If it isn't Thursday, it'll be Friday, like that, you know that.

and they can't be against elliott he's one of my special prosecutors and the country's getting i believe awfully sick of this god damn thing i'm not sure but i know i'm gonna get sick of it what do you think it's just a burden and i don't think

That's an exaggeration.

There's different parts of the country that are conscious of it.

The vote here, they are here.

But now coming to this thing, the attack, you understand, he assaults us, then all of a sudden, the agony that he's got to decide is he's either going to be with the president or I'm going to be against him, period.

And Connolly is going to be with the president.

But I must not do it.

I cannot fight with John Dean.

That's the only reason why I work with our, you know, every Southern congressman, you know, because he was from Irvingport.

That's the only reason.

This guy is a taskmaster there.

That's where we're going to solve this.

These guys are going to...

That car's been gone for months.

That's right, months.

All we're going to do is have a consensus for reporting a fake arrest.

I get on with the business of this damn nation.

That's right.

That's it.

God damn, I'm glad you got a hold of Bob Alton before he testified.

Thank God.

I remember, and he didn't come.

Oh, Bob did it, yes.

And he had Larry put a paper together for two months, and he said, Larry, go ahead.

But you told him I was there?

My God, thank God.

Because otherwise, he would have perjured himself.

He was going to jail for perjury without pretending to.

Even for bad memories.

No, not really.

We'd have a hell of a time getting all of them from that.

But what a tragedy, you know, to have a nice and smothered man like that.

First, a mistake that we could correct.

God damn it, we've got the record here now.

We must always be sure our guys have done it.

All of them must never lie.

The president's not in it.

It was never in it.

I've been trying to keep this son of a bitch in all of it.

Well, it's unbelievable that we've had some bad advice.

And I must say that a hell of a lot of the problems have been resolved.

Because, basically, all of them.

Earlier, we were relying on him.

Do you understand?

That's the council.

That's what he's here for.

They're relying on that son of a bitch.

He should have told us that, look, Christ has a hell of a lot of problems about you guys wanting money for their defense and all the rest of it.

He didn't put it that way.

I mean, it's perfectly proper to give money for the defense of people.

It is not proper to give them the shut-out.

He should have told us.

That's the whole point.

He never told us.

That's the problem.

I don't know.

That'll show, though.

I mean, how could it be otherwise but that he and Aguilar, son of a bitch, was at the switch and he was there?

For nine months?

But let me say it.

Don't assault him too soon.

Let him get on a little further.

And then his legs have got to be caught on national television like nobody's business.

But if not by me, I cannot take on another little asshole.

Aguilar?

What we might do is really get Connelly into this thing.

I think maybe when he comes in, you ought to breathe on the whole goddamn thing.

You know, it isn't all that complicated.

I explained a little of it.

You see, for Christ's sakes, here it is.

attacked in the presidency, and we can't allow it.

The president, he should have known, but he was very busy with other things.

You know, you start to think of what we did in 72 now, the great things we did.

God, why don't you press the Time magazine thing?

Did the president know?

Shit, Time was against us on every good thing we did in 72, every good thing.

I don't know anything that makes it worse.

And as a matter of fact, they had no influence in the country.

Thank God.

I mean, this thing got influenced.

We'll raise a few doubts.

If you have an election, what difference does it make?

It doesn't make any difference anymore.

They know the directions of the group, and they know the results we've achieved.

And that's the solid base for them.

Henry gets back, you know, by the very...

Worried, disturbed, and you've got to put him down in his seat.

And I want to tell you something you're probably not aware of.

Only one other person is aware of it, and it's Hall.

I did not know this, but Johnson did this.

Before him, apparently, Kennedy had done this.

Every conversation

occurred in this office, or the Oval Office, or if they find Camp David office, they'll go to court.

I have ordered that they never be used for home.

That's what I will not allow, unless somebody wants.

And then we will use them.

But at some point, you may have to tell Henry.

See, Henry's been in the Oval Office.

He's been here.

He's been in Camp David.

Also, every one of my telephone conversations at home has been recorded.

Every one.

Johnson, Johnson said that.

I didn't know it until Hallman told me just before that.

And I said, I said, all right, fine.

Don't tell me.

I don't want to ever transcribe.

You know what I mean?

I don't believe in this sort of shit.

I want you to know they're all there.

And we just saw him right now handling it.

And he starts it.

I would say, you know, Henry, why don't you have a polygram?

Just there in the file.

Don't say anything that you're not totally sure of.

You're scared of the chance of it.

Because he says very, very, very stupid things in the file.

That's right.

You know?

And so do I.

That's right.

You know what I mean, though.

Yes, but hell, I have a right to say it.

But he isn't the right Savior that they can write about.

Isn't that clear?

It's all recorded.

I want you to know.

It's a patriot.

That's right.

And you know, you and I know that we pay a hell of a price for Henry.

For Christ is preparing

his expertise with Bill Rogers and Christchurch, which is, they ate in the same ballpark.

I mean, I respect Bill for other reasons.

I mean, he could have had a lot better lawyer than Henry to ever be.

But Bill doesn't, and will never comprehend former colleagues.

What?

No, I don't think so.

Well, parts of it, but not enough of it.

You know, he thinks everything is well.

Why do we worry about it?

We don't worry about it, but it makes the world so nice.

He said, there ain't no nice people in the world.

They're all bastards, as we have learned.

That's right.

I think I'll stay over tomorrow.

Good.

I think we can champion the czar.

You see, we've got to get a team.

We can champion the czar.

Santorelli, I'm sure, is good.

He's bright and tough.

Ed Martin, call him.

He's totally trustworthy.

Sandarelli, I'm totally trustworthy.

He's a mean son of a bitch.

I think he's, everybody tells me he is.

Everybody knows him.

But you need a bright young guy.

That's right.

As well as the other people we've got, too.

Sandarelli is much brighter than Park.

I know Park is bright, but Sandarelli is about 20% brighter.

That's a hell of a lot.

That's right.

Now you've got Buchanan and the rest of them.

But remember now, the thing is, every time that Lenny even burps, he always says, the President should make a speech.

Should I do this?

What the hell's Agnew doing?

He's never spoken up once on this goddamn thing.

Conway's got to speak up.

That's something to do with me.

Even those assholes in the Senate.

I've got to stay out of this now.

I mean, I...

I mean, the thing is, as you know, we've got to make some grave, very grave decisions, and I must not be, and you either, consumed by this son-of-a-bitchy goddamn thing.

Now, let's get the facts on those damn papers.

I'll get it as fast as we can.

The goddamn judge hasn't given it to us.

Fine.

Assume the worst.

Assume they're everything.

And then destroy this man.

I mean destroy him.

Look into his background.

He has a very bad background.

You know about that.

Yes, he had problems.

He was a rebozo or something about that.

He apparently was a law partner and got thrown out of his law firm because he represented another case.

Dean is a bad call.

He made a very bad call putting him in the goddamn job.

That's right.

That was a bad call.

A bad call.

We all make bad calls.

That was my very bad one.

Hicked a little yonder.

It was a bad call.

Did you have any thoughts of his back?

No, but he had on.

He was a son of a bitch.

He didn't rape her.

Really?

Really.

I came back after the third trip.

The second trip.

What kept you off?

What did you mention?

Yes.

He just kind of snagged on that one of those sequins.

He moved around and had almost been worried in a way.

He was on the airplane and he worked like hell.

He was always ready to do something.

He made, I was uncomfortable.

I don't know what it was.

It was visceral.

I'm not saying that he was a bastard.

But my God, what he did with the country.

We can't put that out there.

Destroy the chiefs.

Well, destroy the chairman.

Chiefs, no.

Well, we'll defend that with our lives.

You see, that's the kind of thing that I mean.

We can't make this goddamn executive privilege to get into national security.

I see the kind of thing.

Everything is in this style.

All they have to do now is come to the head, so they call bureaucratic espionage.

That's it.

And you do it all the time.

I know.

Army against the Navy against the Air Force.

But if you ever put that out on a magazine, it's the same kind of standards they had.

Well, Maher had to resign.

He had to resign.

I will not allow it.

He might be indicted.

I mean, there'd be people who would say, God damn it, he must have gone on.

Let me tell you, it'll span an executive period.

They can impeach the president.

Screw it.

But now to the point where this is not going to allow it.

to get into those documents.

Now that's all there is to it.

We can't do that.

Don't let Levin write an asshole that would have done all that, wouldn't he?

Or am I wrong?

I don't think he's the kind that I'm taking here.

Well, this document would have used recommendations and gone so far as to let them into all the executive papers.

You can't give them any papers.

We've got to keep a little loophole whether, you know what I mean,

We've got the deal.

I feel better now.

We've got to take this, get Buzzard over here.

But we may, I think we better get Connelly.

We may have to use him in this.

But we get the goddamn Dean papers.

I need to get those sons of bitches up.

Don't let anybody panic tomorrow about, or make them want to panic.

Well, I don't think he'll make it.

He's not a good vehicle.

His vehicle does.

See, that kind of immunity doesn't mean anything.

All that does is give the prosecutor leads.

That's right, because it only gives him immunity for what cannot be corroborated, right?

It is intentional.

And boy, will corroborate things and help yourself.

So he probably won't accept it.

He might.

And then we know something, too.

Nixon, Haig & Sanchez on Watergate and White House Staffing

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Nixon Library Finding Aid

Also recorded on May 8, 1973

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