{"conversationCode":"435-038","tapeNumber":435,"conversationNumber":38,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-435-038","startDateTime":"1973-05-14T21:15:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-05-14T21:20:00.000Z","startDate":"14-May-1973","startTime":"5:15 PM","endDate":"14-May-1973","endTime":"5:20 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Bull, Stephen B.;","description":"On May 14, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 5:15 pm to 5:20 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 435-038 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 435-38\n\nDate: May 15, 1973\nTime: 5:15 pm-5:20 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with Stephen B. Bull.\n\n       Prisoners of war [POWs] dinner\n\f                                      -27-\n\n           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n       -Invitations\n               -Number\n               -William E. Timmons’s recommendation\n                       -Congressional leaders and wives\n                                              -James O. Eastland, John C. Stennis, Strom\n                        Thurmond, F. Edward Hebert, William G. Bray, George H.\n                        Mahon, Elford A. Cederberg, Milton R. Young and John L.\n                        McClellan\n                       -Foreign Relations Committee\n                       -Wild card\n                               -[Unintelligible name]\n                                       -POW, Missing in action [MIA] affairs\n                       -Timmons\n                       -Foreign Relations Committee\n       -Arrangements\n               -Tent\n               -Lucy A. Winchester\n                       -Thelma C. (“Pat”) (Ryan) Nixon\n                               -Security [?]\n               -Rex W. Scouten [?]\n               -President’s meeting with POWs\n                       -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman\n                       -Thelma C. (“Pat”) (Ryan) Nixon\n                       -Briefing\n                               -Press coverage\n               -Receiving line\n                       -Weather\n                       -Possible location\n                       -Duration\n                       -Photograph\n                               -Noel Hamm [?]\n                                       -US Marine Corps officer\n                                       -Winchester’s support\n               -Entertainment\n                       -Paul W. Keyes\n\nPresident’s schedule\n       -Golf\n\f                                               -28-\n\n                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                      -Charles W. Colson [?]\n               -Henry A. Kissinger\n\nBull left at 5:20 pm.","filename":["435-038.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Bull, Stephen B."],"prevCode":"435-037","nextCode":"435-039","transcript":[{"start":0.45,"end":9.37,"text":"And really, I mean, really, that's all right at all with this DOW thing."},{"start":9.82,"end":10.09,"text":"That's right."},{"start":10.11,"end":11.39,"text":"We're going to have to be aware of it."},{"start":11.41,"end":12.01,"text":"That's what we're going to do."},{"start":12.03,"end":16.8,"text":"I'm more kind of a typo than an explainer, because most of the time, I don't know."},{"start":16.82,"end":18.1,"text":"I don't know why I don't put it on."},{"start":18.12,"end":19.58,"text":"Now, originally, we thought it was a terrible thing."},{"start":19.6,"end":21.18,"text":"We thought it was a horrible thing."},{"start":21.3,"end":22.88,"text":"We thought it was a terrible thing."},{"start":22.9,"end":23.68,"text":"We thought it was a terrible thing."},{"start":23.7,"end":27.65,"text":"We thought it was a terrible thing."},{"start":27.67,"end":29.25,"text":"We thought it was a terrible thing."},{"start":29.27,"end":30.07,"text":"We thought it was a terrible thing."},{"start":30.89,"end":39.28,"text":"And you're going to have to increase our investment in your lawyers."},{"start":40.58,"end":42.69,"text":"Anyway, this helps us ."},{"start":42.83,"end":45.37,"text":"I'm going to have to address just five people."},{"start":45.83,"end":54.76,"text":"But wait, you know, I was thinking of the big five."},{"start":54.96,"end":58.34,"text":"There's the big five."},{"start":58.36,"end":60.16,"text":"The big five, President Rotel."},{"start":60.75,"end":72.96,"text":"And then the armed services, the citizen service, and a very great head of the corporation, who commands the government, but not 408."},{"start":73.34,"end":81.75,"text":"And that's what the relationship is."},{"start":81.77,"end":90.33,"text":"The only wild card, sort of, in a working building, because he has been, the other year, an employee of my affairs."},{"start":90.56,"end":108.96,"text":"I'm not going to, you know, get away with this, but he doesn't make any sense to me, and, you know, for, uh, foreign relations, no, sir, he does not."},{"start":109.1,"end":109.36,"text":"He can't lie."},{"start":109.38,"end":116.63,"text":"The, uh, the tape there, you know, definitely, if we're going to end up with that Thursday night, we're going to be able to do it as soon as we're there."},{"start":116.73,"end":118.77,"text":"Everyone is expected, um, just to be a little bit tight in there."},{"start":118.79,"end":119.71,"text":"Also, I'm just going to have to get to Lucy."},{"start":126.93,"end":127.37,"text":"."},{"start":127.39,"end":127.67,"text":"."},{"start":127.79,"end":128.43,"text":"."},{"start":128.45,"end":150.12,"text":"."},{"start":156.28,"end":157.14,"text":"."},{"start":157.16,"end":157.58,"text":"."},{"start":158.3,"end":158.36,"text":"."},{"start":158.38,"end":158.5,"text":"."},{"start":158.52,"end":158.76,"text":"."},{"start":158.8,"end":182.01,"text":"."},{"start":186.16,"end":189.91,"text":"Well, I was going to suggest that you don't have others."},{"start":190.81,"end":195.19,"text":"And if you say that anyone can be, just read remarks from the people."},{"start":195.53,"end":198.85,"text":"And this is the opportunity right now."},{"start":198.94,"end":200.4,"text":"They would do it in that light of scarring."},{"start":200.42,"end":205.94,"text":"Otherwise, you'd go down and say, yeah, I'll just come in and speak very briefly about it."},{"start":205.96,"end":208.09,"text":"And I agree that there's so many here."},{"start":208.1,"end":209.87,"text":"Yeah, OK. And I had all three."},{"start":209.89,"end":212.39,"text":"And I had a few remarks."},{"start":212.41,"end":212.95,"text":"And then I'll be fine."},{"start":212.97,"end":213.89,"text":"You want press coverage on that thing?"},{"start":217.47,"end":241.43,"text":"Some of the other men may be together."},{"start":241.45,"end":241.77,"text":"Well, all right."},{"start":241.79,"end":243.09,"text":"The weather in North Carolina is not too hot or it's not raining."},{"start":243.11,"end":243.91,"text":"I can't show you outside the enclosures."},{"start":243.93,"end":247.24,"text":"Because probably there are some people, the first guy that you're going is okay, but you're not crossing things on that road."},{"start":247.54,"end":259.87,"text":"I don't know what we can do with it."},{"start":260.99,"end":270.96,"text":"And then maybe we'll have to be finished by..."},{"start":279.08,"end":303.87,"text":"There is a ."},{"start":306.19,"end":335.88,"text":"By and large,"},{"start":336.79,"end":339.93,"text":"."},{"start":339.95,"end":365.12,"text":"."},{"start":380.5,"end":383.74,"text":"What I mean is, we've got to get this thing next week done."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Stephen B. Bull met to finalize the logistics and guest list for an upcoming dinner honoring returned Prisoners of War (POWs). They discussed specific Congressional invitees recommended by William E. Timmons, as well as the event's arrangements, including tent requirements, security, and press coverage. Nixon provided input on the program format, ultimately deciding to keep his remarks brief and requesting coordination with Lucy Winchester and other staff members to ensure the event's success.","topics":["Prisoners of War","White House events","Guest lists","Congressional relations","Event logistics"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T20:03:12.418Z"},"topicSlugs":["prisoners-of-war","white-house-events","guest-lists","congressional-relations","event-logistics"],"audioDurationSec":396,"audioFiles":[{"file":"435-038.mp3","bytes":12687360,"durationSec":396.35,"bitrate":256086,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:04.739Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:40.055Z","transcriptGapSeconds":148,"transcriptGapShare":0.37,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/435-038.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/435-038","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/435/conversation-435-038","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}