{"conversationCode":"438-013","tapeNumber":438,"conversationNumber":13,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-438-013","startDateTime":"1973-05-17T19:06:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-05-17T19:11:00.000Z","startDate":"17-May-1973","startTime":"3:06 PM","endDate":"17-May-1973","endTime":"3:11 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"estimated","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haig, Alexander M., Jr.;","description":"On May 17, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Alexander M. Haig, Jr. met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 3:06 pm and 3:11 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 438-013 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 438-13\n\nDate: May 17, 1973\nTime: Unknown between 3:06 pm and 3:11 pm\nLocation: Old Executive Office Building\n\nThe President talked with Alexander M. Haig, Jr.\n\n       Thomas G. Eagleton’s medical history\n            -Ronald L. Ziegler’s research\n                    -Barnes hospital\n                           -St. Louis, Missouri\n\f                                              -7-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                           Conversation No. 438-13 (cont’d)\n\n                      -Mayo Clinic\n                      -New York\n              -Publicity\n              -Orders for Henry E. Petersen\n              -Intentions\n                      -John W. Dean, III\n              -New York\n              -J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr.\n                      -Mayo Clinic\n                      -St. Louis, Missouri\n\n       Calls to unknown person\n\n       Richard M. Helms\n              -Possible statement\n              -Career\n                     -Strengths\n                     -Weaknesses\n                     -Help from President\n              -Culpability","filename":["438-013.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Haig, Alexander M., Jr."],"prevCode":"438-012","nextCode":"438-014","transcript":[{"start":0.18,"end":3.65,"text":"Rob, check this thing out."},{"start":3.85,"end":11.51,"text":"And there are only two places that sell it, man."},{"start":11.53,"end":21,"text":"Barnes Hospital in St. Louis and Mayo Clinic in Everett, New York."},{"start":21.02,"end":22.98,"text":"Now, uh, for God's sakes, uh, can't we, uh..."},{"start":23,"end":23.86,"text":"I'm not interested in facts."},{"start":23.88,"end":26.79,"text":"I'm interested in getting the goddamn thing out publicly."},{"start":26.81,"end":28.09,"text":"This looks like, uh, you know, a bakery."},{"start":28.11,"end":29.01,"text":"It's really a whole issue."},{"start":29.98,"end":32.01,"text":"See, so, you know, you see what I mean?"},{"start":32.45,"end":33.69,"text":"Sure, get the facts out."},{"start":33.71,"end":38.45,"text":"But, but Peterson has to be both directed to get the, get his ass up there today."},{"start":39.39,"end":40.55,"text":"I don't know what this is."},{"start":40.57,"end":42.59,"text":"Now, this is a hell of a thing to do."},{"start":42.62,"end":45.94,"text":"And that, the point is, I think it's a very good thing to get out hungry."},{"start":46.34,"end":58.53,"text":"Like the house, let me get some."},{"start":58.55,"end":58.67,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":58.69,"end":59.57,"text":"That's what he said."},{"start":62.91,"end":90.46,"text":"Great to be great, huh?"},{"start":90.48,"end":91.5,"text":"Because that's basically"},{"start":91.9,"end":93.7,"text":"Almost true."},{"start":93.72,"end":94.42,"text":"Goddamn it, you know."},{"start":95.12,"end":99.61,"text":"Pretty close to true, except that, yeah, yes it is."},{"start":99.63,"end":103.77,"text":"Goddamn it, there were people that did the best of intentions, even that goddamn thing."},{"start":103.79,"end":112.46,"text":"But on this thing with New York, you know, I don't want the guard to come in in the morning, spend an hour worrying about some goddamn thing when he does nothing about it."},{"start":112.48,"end":112.97,"text":"Poor guy."},{"start":113.41,"end":116.23,"text":"Hell, it was mailed in the same way."},{"start":116.57,"end":119.01,"text":"So, nothing else, you see."},{"start":119.03,"end":120.78,"text":"He's got other problems about doing that."},{"start":122.85,"end":127.17,"text":"Right."},{"start":127.23,"end":127.41,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":127.75,"end":127.87,"text":"Right."},{"start":127.89,"end":131.47,"text":"Well, that's great."},{"start":131.5,"end":137.96,"text":"That's what we're calling it."},{"start":139.1,"end":148.95,"text":"Any other calls from, uh, Ivan?"},{"start":148.97,"end":149.37,"text":"Huh?"},{"start":149.39,"end":149.71,"text":"Who?"},{"start":150.29,"end":150.39,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":150.41,"end":150.47,"text":"Oh."},{"start":150.49,"end":150.73,"text":"Where is he?"},{"start":150.75,"end":150.85,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":150.87,"end":151.69,"text":"Well, Helms must not ever have done that."},{"start":151.71,"end":151.99,"text":"He was not..."},{"start":152.72,"end":154.42,"text":"Check it out."},{"start":156.08,"end":156.88,"text":"Stay a lot of time."},{"start":156.9,"end":158.33,"text":"Look, Jonathan's whole career is involved here."},{"start":158.41,"end":159.27,"text":"He's a decent man."},{"start":160.63,"end":161.77,"text":"I mean, we know him."},{"start":162.24,"end":163.14,"text":"We respect him."},{"start":164.02,"end":164.54,"text":"Good heavens."},{"start":164.76,"end":166.92,"text":"I mean, he knows that I've done everything for him."},{"start":166.94,"end":168.29,"text":"And also, he also knows he didn't do a goddamn thing."},{"start":170.85,"end":172.5,"text":"But, okay."},{"start":172.52,"end":172.72,"text":"Thank you."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Alexander Haig discuss the strategic public release of information regarding Senator Thomas Eagleton’s medical history at the Barnes Hospital and the Mayo Clinic. Nixon directs Haig to ensure Henry Petersen pursues the investigation immediately to shape public perception. The two also touch upon the career status and potential culpability of Richard Helms, with Nixon expressing a desire to support him while distancing him from wrongdoing.","topics":["Thomas Eagleton","Medical records","Henry Petersen","Richard Helms","Public relations","White House strategy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T20:08:59.713Z"},"topicSlugs":["thomas-eagleton","medical-records","henry-petersen","richard-helms","public-relations","white-house-strategy"],"audioDurationSec":180,"audioFiles":[{"file":"438-013.mp3","bytes":5750784,"durationSec":179.63,"bitrate":256121,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:04.739Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:40.580Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/438-013.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/438-013","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/438/conversation-438-013","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}