Conversation 438-032

TapeTape 438StartTuesday, May 22, 1973 at 11:38 AMEndTuesday, May 22, 1973 at 12:27 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Acker, Marjorie P.;  Haig, Alexander M., Jr.;  Woods, Rose MaryRecording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On May 22, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Marjorie P. Acker, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., and Rose Mary Woods met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building at an unknown time between 11:38 am and 12:27 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 438-032 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 438-32

Date: May 22, 1973
Time: Unknown between 11:38 am and 12:27 pm
Location: Old Executive Office Building

The President talked with Marjorie Acker.

[Conversation No. 438-32A]

[Begin telephone conversation]

       Dictation
               -National security

Alexander M. Haig, Jr. entered at 11:58 am.

       Watergate
             -President’s responsibility

[End telephone conversation]
                                             -35-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. October-2011)

                                                               Conversation No. 438-32 (cont’d)

       Watergate
             -Forthcoming White Paper
             -President’s actions
                    -Authorizations
             -Forthcoming White Paper
                    -Editing
             -White House strategy
                    -Economy
             -Richard M. Helms
                    -Knowledge of President’s role
                    -Motive
             -John C. Stennis and Joe D. Waggonner, Jr.

Rose Mary Woods entered at an unknown time after 11:58 am.

       Copy of statement draft page

Woods left at an unknown time before 12:03 pm.

       Watergate
             -Forthcoming White Paper
             -President’s role and knowledge
             -Phraseology
             -[Editing]
                     -Plumbers
                            -Instructions
                            -Activities
                                    -President’s disapproval
                            -President’s responsibility
                                    -President’s approval
             -Woods

Woods and Acker entered at 12:03 pm.

       Watergate
             -Forthcoming White Paper
                    -Editing
                                                -36-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                      (rev. October-2011)

                                                            Conversation No. 438-32 (cont’d)

                     -Instructions for typist

Woods and Acker left at 12:05 pm.

       Watergate
             -Forthcoming White Paper
                     -Content
                             -Egil (“Bud”) Krogh, Jr.
                             -Responsibility
             -Allegations of plans
                     -Bugging
                     -Kidnapping
                     -Armed groups
                     -President’s knowledge
             -President’s role and knowledge
                     -J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr.
                             -Charles W. Colson
             -Access to documents
             -Colson
             -David R. Young, Jr.
             -J. Edgar Hoover
             -Public opinion
             -Helms and Lt. Gen. Vernon A. Walters
             -Congress
                     -Howard H. Baker, Jr. and Wallace F. Bennett
             -Effect on presidency and Republican party
             -President’s role
             -World situation

Woods entered at an unknown time after 12:05 pm.

       Watergate
             -Forthcoming White Paper

Woods left at an unknown time before 12:25 pm.

       Watergate
                                               -37-

                  NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. October-2011)

                                                              Conversation No. 438-32 (cont’d)

             -Forthcoming White Paper
                    -Phraseology
                            -National security
                                    -[Krogh’s] assignment
                            -President’s responsibility
             -Colson
             -Krogh
                    -Testimony regarding orders
             -John D. Ehrlichman
             -Young
                    -Possible testimony
             -Krogh
                    -Testimony regarding orders
                            -Ehrlichman
             -Public support for President’s national security actions
             -Cover-up
                    -Central Intelligence Agency [CIA]
                    -Money
                    -Walters
                    -Explanation of President’s actions
             -[Arnold] Eric Sevareid
                    -Statement regarding President’s foreign policy

      National economy
             -George P. Shultz
             -Need for action
                    -Presidential leadership
                            -Price freezes
             -John B. Connally’s views
                    -Wall Street
             -Public reaction
             -Discussion on Sequoia

      Watergate
            -Howard K. Smith’s view on timing of hearings

Woods entered at an unknown time after 12:05 pm.
                                             -38-

                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. October-2011)

                                                           Conversation No. 438-32 (cont’d)

       Forthcoming White Paper
              -Phraseology
              -Cover memorandum

Woods left at 12:25 pm.

       Watergate
             -Effect on Wall Street
             -George H. W. Bush
                     -Statement, May 21
                     -Rowland Evans-Robert Novak column

Haig left at 12:27 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Uh, hello, Mark.
Oh, I'm sorry about that.
I couldn't get it.
She's got to take something down.
Uh, sure.
I never .
Uh, sure.
However, he probably didn't have
I can now understand how highly motivated individuals could have felt justified in doing whatever they could have done.
It's very hard to decide what to do.
It's very hard to decide what to do.
It's very hard to decide what to do.
Yeah, just type it all that way in the sentence.
If you can correct this right off, I'm going to run over to Alex if you're right.
let me say if we went to the point of saying that i wasn't right
I don't know if you want to put that in there, because others are going to testify to that.
All right, then, Mr. Blackfield.
I don't know if that's a good idea.
I don't know if that's a good idea.
I don't know if that's a good idea.
I didn't let them talk about it.
I didn't plan anything.
I really thought about it, and I didn't want to talk about it.
I didn't care about how we got along.
I didn't care about this country.
I didn't want to talk about it.
I didn't want to talk about it.
I didn't want to talk about it.
Then I don't want to hear about it all day long.
Then I don't want to hear about it all day long.
And maybe at 5 o'clock,
And I think we might have an R&A or not.
We have plans to do that.
I know it's a lot of work.
But we have a lot of problems on it.
We have to investigate.
But I guess we have to.
We have a very good consumer plan.
So they leave and we don't have to come up with a plan.
Well, let's have a look at it.
You know, let me say this, Paul likes Tennessee.
You know, we're going to keep on going south.
We will not get to Tennessee.
They don't want to destroy any country.
And it's not going to be viable after this gets down.
What's happening?
I think we're going to have a hell of a lot of success with this war.
I just think this is going to be the thing.
But I think that's a hard one.
That's not a super common truth.
Thank you.
I didn't.
Can we say that?
Can we say that out there?
I don't know that the last sentence is good.
Thank you.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
How do you like that sentence?
I can understand how highly motivated you are.
I understand how highly motivated.
Bye.
or such actions, despite the fact that I don't know.
How does that sound?
Do you want me to try that with George?
Do you think I can write like that better?
I don't think so.
Thank you.
I really want to be an individual.
Good and self-reliant.
I now, I now must do.
Now, because of what I must do, I must do something like this.
One.
Two.
Three.
Four.
Five.
Six.
Seven.
Eight.
Tidy that off as you can.
We're recovering more than we've grown in years.
We're recovering.
We're doing some actions in the world.
We're just going to have other names in the world.
uh, you know, you well know, we did sit around and we'd sit there pricing it, get that done, whatever you were doing, you know, you know, and that, that's what I, that's what I was growing up doing, growing up growing up.
And, but on the other hand, if I put in a paper that, that I told them to do whatever it was that was necessary, the government, the president of the United States would say,
But we've got the denial.
We'll stand right on this bit of that.
We've got them, too.
We've got to deny somebody.
So that's the question.
We've got them, too.
You know what I mean?
On this, that's not, as a matter of fact, in terms of the specifics, I did not approve the crazy action, too.
There's no money to throw in.
I know how.
My friends know that.
As I ask you, is there anybody else who's been there?
I don't break real.
um
I can't put an umbrella under the police, okay?
But what the hell good does it do them?
They have to present that umbrella.
Does it get close to the church?
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I think the president has got to be in a position to hear this from you, brother.
No.
You have to be a brother.
No.
You're a brother.
I don't know whether you've got a close friend.
I have a number I have with us.
And I can understand that.
I can't believe it.
What the hell is this all about?
What this is running from is fascinating, but what they've had there.
Nobody can deny what they've shared, what they've had, or where it was, or
They're already part of one of my lessons I had on the present we had.
But it goes a little far.
It was there for people at home to go to life.
Well, I don't know the reason they might have died.
I just can't let them destroy the present.
and also another word let's face it
Thank you.
I don't care about the dialogue.
Of the national security.
Of the national security.
Departments.
Of his assigned life.
You understand?
Without an S.
I don't see when I get an assignment that I'm describing everything.
I don't know what I'm talking about.
I don't know.
Thank you.
But my point is,
We can't hold on to why, because Colson and others are going to say it was a friend of yours, and he wasn't really a man.
I can't, I can't do that.
Crowe didn't say that.
Look, Crowe, Al, didn't know what he was talking about.
And he didn't say anything.
He didn't say anything about it.
He didn't.
Now, the fact that you say others are going to say it.
Now, Crowe is the top guy.
They would all take responsibility for what they were doing.
And, as we predicted earlier, I know, I'm just not concerned about this side.
But, if one of the women had a little humility, well-sprung in support of these kinds of things, I don't have a punishment for that.
No, I agree with what you've said.
Now, this is what the dams are going to be after, because the executive authority is huge.
And civil rights.
That's right.
Civil libertarianism.
You know, we're not going to have that.
Not an organization that spends four or five hours a week for a person to look at one guy and say, you know, tell me things that are no longer even a problem.
A lot of students shouldn't have to take 30 seconds to do that.
You know, we're going to have to get over it.
We're going to have to do it.
We're going to have to do it.
What you're talking about?
What are you doing?
Well, I just worked on it.
The water's gone?
Yeah, for the next one.
But it didn't come on.
It didn't come on.
But it was a check.
Yeah, it was a check.
How do you have, how do we have a look on your account on the tracking?
I don't think Mr. McClain really needs to explain.
Mr. McClain explained that in terms of the fact that it's an active security party, you've got that right.
You were trying to keep that on.
That was my job.
But as far as trying to cover up the event, it was really fun.
Well, I had no problem with it.
No monogamy.
In a very recent interview, he said, I don't believe it.
Dear God, look at this man.
What he's taken.
I've tried to preserve the secrets of this nation.
Christ was going to jump down on this nation right now.
Six months ago.
What a situation.
Because they were severed.
I don't know what they were doing.
I don't know anything about being in this devotion to them.
the top of him, but underneath him is this man from medicine approximately in the structure of his human memory.
That's the issue we've got to cover now.
Snowman came and said, we've got to bring that back.
Bring it home to people.
That provided me to get George off of this fat ass and get us something to eat in our area.
He still is.
You know, they're not done with that.
We brought him here to deal with it.
I think we have to do something that shows presidential leadership battle.
Now, whether that involves going back to some of the
I have more doubts about that at the end of this session than I had before.
For me, it's probably that the county's perspective is more to me.
I mean, these guys are going to come back.
But I don't know if they're going to come back.
But they are, and I do expect them to come back.
I'm not sure if you want to go.
No, because people say, well, you know, but we said the whole last night, he would be just lagging out.
Now, the one point that I was noting that there was something here, a couple of points, Howard Smith would say something to the effect, get the Senate hearings up so that they can get the president to try or not try.
I don't think the medicals, I don't think the medicals know what he's going to ask.
I don't know why you're upset about the people who came back.
should we say uh what would you say
That's what it is.
There was a question.
No?
No character.
All right, there you go.
That's the way it is.
That's the way it is.
That's the way it is.
That's the way it is.
That's the way it is.
That's the way it is.
That's the way it is.
maybe we're in a position now
We don't feel the last flag that Bush pushes in terms of that.
He needs those guys to really offer him some support.
That would be the first time to hear out what he said, but part of the story is they want to judge him now.
If they weren't so hard, he was breaking away.
I'm just here to steal back from him.
All right.
Okay, I'm concerned about what you're going to say after that.
All right.
That's right.
Good.
Now, all I need is a new card.