Conversation 439-019

TapeTape 439StartMonday, May 21, 1973 at 3:40 PMEndMonday, May 21, 1973 at 4:25 PMParticipantsNixon, Richard M. (President);  Haig, Alexander M., Jr.;  Ziegler, Ronald L.Recording deviceOld Executive Office Building

On May 21, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 3:40 pm to 4:25 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 439-019 of the White House Tapes.

Conversation No. 439-19

Date: May 21, 1973
Time: 3:40 pm - 4:25 pm
Location: Old Executive Office Building

President met with Alexander M. Haig, Jr. and Ronald L. Ziegler.

       Watergate
             -White House response
                    -Forthcoming White Paper [Statements about Watergate investigation,
                     May 22, 1973]
                           -Release
                                  -Bryce N. Harlow’s views
                                          -Hugh Scott and Gerald R. Ford
                                  -John C. Stennis and J. Fred Buzhardt, Jr.
                                  -Henry M. Jackson
                                  -Cover letter
                                  -Meeting with Congressional leaders
                                          -Carl B. Albert
                                          -Michael J. (“Mike”) Mansfield, Scott, Ford, Leslie
                                           C. Arends, Robert P. Griffin and Thomas P.
                                           O’Neill
                                  -Contacts by Harlow and William E. Timmons
                                  -Spiro T. Agnew
                                  -Howard H. Baker, Jr.
                                  -Herbert G. Klein
                           -Cover letter
                           -President’s schedule
                                  -Forthcoming conversation [with Congressional leaders]
                                     -13-

           NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                              (rev. August-2011)

                                                           Conversation 439-19 (cont’d)

                            -Forthcoming trip to Iceland
                            -Meeting with Cabinet
                            -[Memorial Day] message

Haig’s schedule
       -Economics meeting

President’s schedule
       -Forthcoming White Paper

Watergate
      -White House response
             -Forthcoming White Paper
                     -Henry E. Petersen
                     -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman and John D. Ehrlichman
                     -Phraseology
                     -Cover letter
      -Ziegler’s answers to briefing questions
      -Daniel Ellsberg break-in
             -President’s knowledge
                     -President’s meeting with John W. Dean, III, March 21
                             -Egil (“Bud”) Krogh, Jr.
                     -E. Howard Hunt, Jr.
                     -Richard G. Kleindienst
             -Ehrlichman’s knowledge
             -Justice Department’s knowledge
                     -Dean’s allegations regarding Petersen
             -Haldeman and Ehrlichman

President’s schedule
       -[Florida]
               -Weather

Watergate
      -White House response
             -Forthcoming White Paper [statements about Watergate investigation,
              May 22, 2973]
                                            -14-

                    NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM

                                     (rev. August-2011)

                                                                Conversation 439-19 (cont’d)

                           -Forthcoming coversation
                           -Harlow’s view

Haig left at 3:59 pm.

                           -Phraseology and content
                                  -Plumbers
                                         -Dean
                                                 -Papers [?]
                                                         -Shepherd [?]
                                         -Krogh
                                  -President’s investigation
                                         -National security
                                         -Petersen
                                         -Hunt
                                                 -Ellsberg investigation
                                         -Kleindienst
                                         -Hunt’s break-in of Ellsberg’s psychiatrist’s office
                                                 -Ellsberg trial
                                                         -Evidence
                                                                 -Kleindienst’s
                                                                  recommendations
                                                 -President’s knowledge
                                  -Buzhardt
                                  -Dean’s possible allegations

Ziegler left at 4:25 pm.

This transcript was generated automatically by AI and has not been reviewed for accuracy. Do not cite this transcript as authoritative. Consult the Finding Aid above for verified information.

Hi, how are you?
Good.
Got the check done?
Yes, indeed.
At least a little work around the elevator will provide it to you, thank you.
We're going to do some steps.
We're not just going to shake that shit over.
I feel like I rocked the curve.
Good thing to do.
You know, he's got a version about the, what we, uh, what the plan is, and when we can put out a follow-up, and then I can sort of get my own mind on what I'm looking for.
There's things that, uh, there's things that, uh, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that,
Well, Bryce isn't sure of those things, but, you know, he's like, it's alright, it's done.
It's alright, fine.
But I want that done.
I want to be sure it's handled.
It's alright, it's done.
Or, you know, I have no bail.
Well, because we know he was with us.
We know he was with us.
And I've gone over to Jackson, but I wasn't there.
So, you know, I was going to bail.
You see, this is getting a couple of everybody up here.
Then tomorrow, at about 4 o'clock, we'll encourage the people of the current state of Florida to retrialize it.
For us to retrialize it.
You know, just the one paper.
Right?
When he said that...
And at that same moment, we are releasing them.
And we're going to ask my family, and Carlisle, and those of you who are sitting down, to tell them what you're releasing, and why you're releasing them.
As Bryce says, not to consult with them about it, but recognizing that they're going to do that.
And we want them to understand why you're releasing them, and to hang behind them in their own way.
How do we, uh, how do we invite them down as well?
Well, they didn't want us to.
All they wanted to do was find out if they were all going to be here.
Basically, they had a doctor who drank with them.
He was a doctor who drank with them.
So it's morning for them.
They didn't have to do it.
They didn't have to do it.
They didn't have to do it.
They didn't have to do it.
I'm glad you're a little there.
I thought you were saying benign and black.
That's what I was thinking of in mind.
Sure.
And more than that, it's now a program for other people to work on in other directions as well.
The price of tests, we're seeing for them, they have to be contacted.
That's what I'm trying to say.
We're working on everything that we can.
Can I help you?
Yes, very much.
Can I help you?
Yes, very much.
Can I help you?
Can I help you?
Yes, very much.
Yeah, he can talk to anybody else.
I don't want nobody else to talk to.
I don't want anybody else to talk to.
I don't want anybody else to talk to.
I don't want anybody else to talk to.
I don't want anybody else to talk to.
I don't want anybody else to talk to.
I don't want anybody else to talk to.
I don't want anybody else to talk to.
I don't want anybody else to talk to.
I don't want anybody else to talk to.
I don't want anybody else to talk to.
I don't want anybody else to talk to.
The purpose of all this was to kind of develop some support for the state.
To get some, seeing this covered letter, what we're going to have is just a straight tick off of what you need to do.
And that would deny every charge that's bad enough.
And now we've done it all for the business of the state.
That's what we're acting on.
Clear the air.
Clear the air.
Clear the air.
About water.
Clear the air.
About water.
Clear the air.
We're going to be on that, uh, we're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to be on that.
We're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to be on that, uh, we're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to have Friday Puss in Boots.
We're going to
Now, suppose all that was leaking.
Let's think of that very attentively at the moment, though, and see how we ride.
We can set that up very early.
In other words, I think announcing that, deciding that four to five days in advance would not be a good idea.
I personally would think it would be way more difficult.
that they would appear and have a good assessment of what was actually going on.
We were excited that I had plenty of time to see what we wanted to do with them.
Do you think that conversation was a good idea for you to do all four?
I don't think so.
That's what I suggested too, saying that we were going to do one of them.
That's the end of the conversation.
Well, that's all right.
That's what I wanted to do.
That's good.
the conversation.
What do I do?
I see you go Thursday afternoon.
Sure.
Sure, I have no problem.
But we shouldn't decide that.
Oh, I do, uh, I do the conversation, too.
I'm going to ask the professor if he wants to split that up.
All right.
Yeah, we're going Friday morning.
You know, get that behind the stop.
Yeah, just by all means, I've heard the captain try right away.
What does that mean?
Right.
Just wait a day, of course.
The day is, you know, tomorrow or the day after.
The day, well, the title is a good day, sure.
But we don't know when that economic meeting is.
Well, I'm going to meet with these people at 4.
And, uh, uh, fine.
I'm going to skip the work, and then we'll know that that rank is 4 hours, and we can rank evidence that's been written.
The rank should be for Monday.
All right, fine.
Should be for Monday.
You see, and that can be a little bit of a conversation.
You understand what I'm asking.
But with these dimensions and some of these things, who's the person that would want to be?
And that can be just that conversation, a sort of, yeah.
Obviously, the other side of the planet, you know, how these things are, and all of this may occur in a moment.
It may just be a little bit of, you know what I mean?
But that is a very technical.
Now, when you read this report right now, it doesn't track as well as it should because there isn't enough substance to measure it.
It's been checked out in Peterson.
We've got these discussions in the new Senate.
We haven't gotten Bob and John's comments yet.
We're doing that now.
Now, this thing's got to be smoothed over.
We're going to see all the rhetoric now.
Now, if we can get to our end, it doesn't track as well as it should.
But they're going to take care of that.
I'm not too concerned about that.
I think it's close to what's supposed to be the matter here with me.
I mean, there's a lot of cover time.
Because I covered this.
Because it all starts with me.
Now, what did we cover?
Oh, did I?
You'll write a story about it in the cover.
I think it's the office.
I think it's the office.
I think it's the office.
Yes, sir, but it's time to do that in an apprehensive way.
I know that all in a lie.
That's right.
That's right.
Incidentally, but, Rob, did you ever find a part of your estimate?
And, uh, how did you ever answer as to whether I had any knowledge of that damn brain in the psychiatrist's office?
I didn't have any.
I've never heard of that.
My first knowledge is I don't know when, but it was in March, maybe April, maybe March 23rd.
So it could have been, it could have been when Dean came in, you know, his famous, he may have talked about the COVID problem then, or whatever they call it.
So figure that, that it could have been, I don't know, it was in April, that it was in April now, you know what I mean?
and so forth, so like farming, and they, I should have sent it out to them.
But the idea that something had occurred, you know, let's face it, Ron, none of them knew the goddamn thing had already occurred.
So I must have discussed it with him.
I'm not going to marginalize him, but that's a good question, if you think so.
I don't recall it.
I know that you agree.
We have assumed that he might have.
Let's always assume that he might have.
I know that you agree to assume any harm done to this person.
After all, it all occurred in the period when I was conducting my investigation.
And the point that I made to Alex as far as agreeing to this discussion was not a question of us withholding any information from the Department of Justice.
They did.
That was what Athena was saying.
Peterson had the goddamn picture.
So we have to rely on Bob and John to help actually break some of that, too.
I love the idea that we've got this.
Shit.
Get out of this place.
Get out of this place.
Get out of here, son.
We're having a conversation.
It's a pretty good idea.
I have a shop away.
Well, see, that's the shop away at the corner of the old building.
But no, that's not to take care of.
We'll take care of it.
We'll always have those things covered up.
I'm not going to take care of it.
I won't take care of it.
I won't take care of it.
We're engaged.
We're engaged.
Sure, we have to do it.
You have to take care of it.
I said, we have to meet at some point.
This I've said before.
So at least we will have it in town.
I'm sure we won't have to go back and forth.
They're only going to hire a little other big thing.
And that's because, you know, they're all... That's right.
And your biggest problem, your problem on average, on average, the biggest problem is not to get anyone else...
I don't know if you want to go on here, David.
I agree with that.
That's very important.
If you want to stay here, I don't consider it.
I don't know if you want to stay here.
Because I know you've done it.
If I could come back and you finish kicking them in the ass and I'll reword this over.
Fair enough, I'll do it.
Is that a copy?
Yes, sir.
These charges are answered.
Are you waiting on us then for questions?
Uh, I address these charges.
Uh, if I ask you...
My major concern is that, how do I put it, that's what I'm worried about.
What do I do?
What do I do?
I guess, what do I do?
What do I do?
What do I do?
What do I do?
What do I do?
What do I do?
rather than putting it on the back of the name of the relation.
Now that's a shocker, you know, that a guy would walk out and give the man documents to the judge.
We're going to talk about the original insurer.
That insurer was more than a sentence.
It did not provide its...
The lawyer did not...
uh i think on page 15
Well, it says it's got a question mark in it.
It has a question mark in it, but, uh, what a fool.
I mean, like, you know what I mean?
We're saying I ain't related to you.
You see, on the day of the 19th, I just, uh, we're coming to get ourselves, you know, come to us.
I wish I knew for sure.
I thought that if I didn't know for sure, if I didn't make it, I might return it for sure.
But, uh, what do you say?
I have to see, you know, try to paragraph it around.
At this point, I can't believe it, you know.
When I put it this way, in my, uh, you know, personal
which I initiated by marching on the bridge.
I consider it my responsibility, my crime responsibility,
Watergate investigation.
Did not.
On April 18th, when I learned that I directed a system, when I learned that the system was running, it was running on computers.
On April 16th, when I learned that the
All matters involve water, any issue of both parts.
This is going to combine our distribution of weathering matters and this video of an actual
on blank with the blanks that they
Subsequently on
And what there was, we had a government clear evidence that hundreds of folks had raided the office at that time, and they were treated, and all of a sudden, the police should have filed.
Even though that, uh, that, uh, that, uh, Glenn acting on the advice, uh, of the executive
I, uh, I directed, I directed this because I know, uh, I do forms of course.
I know a great piece about math.
I directed it rather than prove the translation.
I wrote it up.
I said, if you want to do it, I can go right ahead and do it.
I wonder if in this instance you could take that particular part that this brought you over to.
Right.
And tell him that that's the way it was originally written, because I am obviously saying that I didn't hear about that break-in earlier in April.
See what I mean?
That's my first term of election, but I don't want to say that.
You see, Ron, we're going to have a win there, because you're that goddamn mean to then get up and...
It's all right to say it that way.
I would like to have him rewrite that case and go on that line.
I wonder if he can do that now.
We'll be working on that.
I've heard that this stage worked out.
This is a terrible place.
We don't mind.
As a matter of fact, why don't you bring him over and work it out.
Here.
All right.
Go on.
I think he's on his place.
All right.
Go ahead.