Conversation 439-029

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It occurred to me, Fred, that there's one other person that may know when I learned about that, uh, this, this day of the, uh, on April 18th.

Uh, the only other one that I knew.

He was earlier, earlier than you see, knew about the goddamn thing.

He was with me when, uh, I talked to Peterson.

And, uh, I find that life is better if I believe it as it is, but on the other hand,

Uh, I, I can't, I don't want, I cannot leave without pressure.

Uh, let's see.

If I do, if I do, if I remember before April 18th, I didn't learn much before.

Uh, I didn't learn, maybe a week or three or four days, whatever the case might be.

But the main point is, if, uh, how do you come to the rewriting of the thing?

I have, I have rewritten one.

Uh, I have, this is a draft.

I rewrote that.

That's a problem.

Yeah.

I have a question.

What?

Tell me your question.

There's a lot of detail there.

All right.

So much detail.

It's really too much detail.

How would you do it then?

Why don't you write it the way you think it ought to be?

I am trying to write this.

I think we want to be very careful with this section.

I'd like to work over this section a little bit more.

all right and see if we can't get it back to the level that we feel is consistent with the rest of the state yeah i think you're right i think around this but like the record yet first i don't think we ought to put that to be perfectly frank with you i didn't think we ought to put anything i've been involved in a break in the office you see my money yeah what i really think is that uh

But you don't want to say that I did direct Attorney John Peterson to pursue every issue involving Watergate, but to confine the management of Watergate, and to stay out of national security.

I think we should have said that.

Say that.

Yeah.

But then I think we could leave out the $100,000 investigation, but that would make sense.

You'd leave that out?

Yes.

And that might embarrass him.

I'd leave that out.

All right, leave it out.

Subsequently, on April 25th, I did what you could do.

I mean, I just got it.

All right.

I didn't comment on it.

I heard you do, but I didn't know how to read a version of that either.

I read it.

I've got lots of testimonies for strangers.

I think that's about enough.

The worst problem is the business of value.

getting into the actual break-in.

Yes.

And it went until, until you sent it out there.

Well, actually, actually, it wasn't totally confirmed until that meeting.

Until the attorney general walks in and tells me, look, the picture and all this stuff.

Well, I guess it was, I don't know, I didn't have to be honest about it.

Earlier, it would have been a break-in.

So I had to know it from him.

But on the other hand, the point is that the attorney general, I mean, put it this way, I knew that the Justice Department knew it.

And I figured that, God damn it, if it should be sent there, they'd send it out.

But I don't think we should get into it.

And I think it puts Henry on the spot there, too, because he asked the question, has the court had anything?

I said no.

So that shows that I must know something about it, too.

And I'll be right.

And I also think it's a little thinner there.

I think it's better.

I think we need to get it to greater levels of detail again.

And we're going to take the little heat on this, and we're going to take the fire.

This is the main thing that we've got to get out there.

Right.

And then the case is dropped.

Right.

We don't have too much of a problem on this, because they run this stuff.

In the context of this thing, this is not going to be a major problem.

Sure.

It's not going to be a matriarchal message or something.

But they've already said that.

They've already said.

You've already put that in the paper.

Yeah.

All right.

It's already written in the paper.

Right.

And there were a couple of other officers.

Right.

We're back on track on that.

That's right.

That's what you're saying.

It was really add to it.

That's right.

All right.

And the source was delayed for 10 days.

We weren't trying to kill the kid.

We're legally, you know.

And if the question ever comes up again, I can go over and let you go to the woods.

Ross, I just made it on the line, though.

He should have had no impact on the case.

Whatever.

Not whatever.

That's right.

You see, they should have made the fight there that we struck out.

When Ross did the fight that we struck out, it should have been made legally without them.

We had no impact on the case.

Because there were no evidence acquired.

You didn't have any evidence.

That's what there was no evidence.

That's what Ray Peterson told me on the phone that night.

He said, no, it's not Bill.

It's not Bill.

They just left there and we delayed it and saved it.

Delayed it 10 days.

I didn't finish it, though.

Delayed it 10 days.

I said, stay out of national security.

That's all.

And then they said, there's nothing over there.

All right.

I buy your thing.

And I think reviewers don't have no problem with that.

I think you probably have less problem with this than with the other.

Because if you put it in and you were talking about the break-in and the rest,

And as a matter of fact, it was a more general conversation, too, that I recall.

I wouldn't go any further than that.

Oh, incidentally, one problem that you ought to check on, I guess you've been told to do it, you know, there's one place where we've got the whole presidential privilege is presidential papers.

Right.

I think MRM is maybe more manly than me, you know, in the office.

And that is the oral testimony that they're saying they want.

But any memorandum has got to be able to get a stand-by color because I can't have these committees going through these papers, you know.

It's got to vary from people to people.

Now, you've got all of them.

You've got to run them.

The question is, of course.

I don't know.

I mean, I assume you probably have a good sense.

If I don't post it in front of you this time, they won't.

How can you do it?

You just tell him that.

I'll ask his lawyer.

What about it?

Yeah, documents.

You can say that.

What we want to say, I don't want them about documents.

I do, but Chuck and Heather, I'm talking about all the documents.

Anything where Chuck has a conversation with them, I talk with them about it.

Or Chuck's in the room, and I'll take care of it, and so forth.

That kind of conversation, under our rules, those with memoranda are mine.

They belong to the same conversation with the president.

That's what I'm saying.

Well, you've got to be telling that to them.

But don't you, but you're concerned.

I remember when you had the hearing.

The crisis two weeks ago where he fell home and had taken something out.

That's right.

It might have had to do with the law.

That rusted the crates.

Well, what about Colson on that?

That's what I'm asking you.

He has not indicated.

He hasn't.

Oh, shit.

What?

I've had lots of conversations with him.

I know he's had conversations with him.

I think he's made a number.

He may have made a number.

I'll check with his counsel.

But if he's done anything to his counsel, you can't say anything.

I think we should get to him because of this thing that comes out.

I think we should get his counsel and tell him anyway.

Do you understand?

Yes.

You have to prove that.

I have not told his counsel.

But I'll tell his counsel.

Makes sense to me.

Yes, sir.

Although I think you're right.

I think this would probably be right.

That's right.

Is that what you're saying?

What do you say?

You say he doesn't have to.

I'm sure.

I'm over here.

He's probably destroyed.

Yeah.

I don't ask him anything as he's destroying his thing.

Um, but, you know, I'll get into that.

Just his nose, regarding his conversation with Lee, that must be in the White House.

That's all it was.

Those are president.

They're supposed to be here.

That's all that's been ruled.

But Henry, for example, I've got that in him.

Henry Kissinger's got stuff, I'm sure, out of his house that he should have in here, too.

But you know, Johnson was a bad one that evening.

Everybody knew real good about reading their notes.

Well, I was talking to the trustee counsel about that tonight.

Now, we're... we will have a problem on... on the notes that they have of other conversations.

I'm certainly talking to other people.

I've learned with other people.

I understand.

You've got to stand clear and not take responsibility for what they say to other people, even if they use your name.

I mean, that's got to be the question.

The conduit thing, in other words.

You can't buy the conduit period because anybody doesn't say to it.

It gives us a color of authenticity.

to the use of your language.

I see.

With you.

Seems to have you in, in your state that way.

That they were in fact speaking to you.

I don't know if we have to say that.

When you talk to both, is anybody starting to start checking the bottom?

Yes, John, about the, the meat of this thing.

I would like to read the whole thing now.

I don't know why.

Everybody agrees the whole thing wants to edit the record.

How is that?

But what do you know what they want to edit?

I would get the items.

Yes.

You know the items that they can get?

Yes, sir.

So John needs to know about the nations.

They need to know the nations.

Yes, sir.

And they need to know about the prisoners.

Yes, sir.

Have you sort of prepared them for the fact that we're going to do the privilege thing?

Yes, sir.

How do they feel about it?

I haven't really got a response yet.

They're thinking about it.

I don't know.

Well, let me say about the conversation, because, you know, we are discussing the legal nature.

Well, I don't think we can discuss crime, but if we were discussing matters of law, I think they should testify about it.

They should.

I guess the problems are there.

I think

I don't want to ruin my conversation with Bob, and I have talked to Bob.

From my conversation with Bob, he says he has no problem with his conversation.

And he could put in perspective, even his notes, he wouldn't have a problem with them, but he said he could never communicate all that with them.

Is that all out there?

Yes, sir.

So, from that, I'll return it.

Well, you know, the neighbors themselves, we're going to have a, it's going to be a good disc cutter, but let me tell you the truth.

Kind of a battle.

We just fight it day by day.

The ball wants to average a little better than 500.

Well, I think it's better when we start getting out front.

You're right.

In fact, we're making a switch.

Yes, sir.

I think it's imperative that you get out front.

We've got all these things.

No, I don't know.

I don't know.

We've covered everything.

Because I've learned for the first time that maybe the dean office might have had a bunch of black flashers.

I didn't know that.

But we have.

We've constructed.

I have gone back and checked this.

Well, I've talked to Bob Martin.

I've talked to a bunch of Welsh, and I've talked to a few Englishmen.

They are investigating, right?

They are investigating everybody that worked in Marty's office.

That's because of Dean's testimony?

Yes, sir.

And I really think, my own conclusion is they're going to fire us.

That's why we have the SPS laws.

That's right.

But I think the best thing here, though, is to lay out all this stuff.

And not be defensive about it.

The National Security Investigations and all the rest of it are on the line.

That's too bad.

We're damn sorry about that.

But we have them and we stand up for them.

Don't you agree?

Yes, sir.

The other one I saw, I mean, some paper comes out like that study, but, you know, that one of the things in the box, a reason for us to be defensive about that kind of thing.

I don't know.

Uh, we'll see if we can.

We'll see if we can.

And, uh, we could be defensive about it.

In the face of the crisis, the Pentagon papers and all that sort of stuff, we were good in stuff, but after a time, it was all before us.

Nothing happened.

One of the reasons the Pentagon in Brazil would have a massive effect on all of us around here, one of the reasons it probably had only, uh, well, an effect on the country, it was like this, this, wasn't this history.

And you realize that this,

Do you understand?

Yes.

We've got that document with the policy paper with everything.

It's history.

All right.

So, what about the facts?

The facts?

The facts don't come up.

Thank you.