Conversation 044-019

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Mr. President, Prime Minister Trudeau.

Yes.

Hello.

Mr. President.

Mr. Prime Minister.

I'm just following up on our conversation of Thursday.

We took a decision last night, and what we decided really was to postpone any decision to withdraw.

We feel that...

We don't feel too effective now, but we don't want to rock the boat.

We think that by staying another couple of months and not mentioning any withdrawal at this time, that things might improve, and hopefully we'll find ourselves more useful.

But by the end of May, we could...

and take another look at i hope that well i'm i'm most grateful and let me say that uh met with listen you and i were talking this morning and looking at the facts and we can't be too sanguine about it it is

Of course, encouraging that they have come through now on the complete release of all the POWs.

All of our forces will be out.

And the number of incidents continues to go down.

I mean, there's still incidents, but what I mean is that it's moving in a direction that is somewhat more positive.

Although I will be very candid with you, nobody can be sure.

really counts here is whether the North Vietnamese determine in their own minds they want to have, you know, try to turn toward building up their own economy and so forth and pay the price, which means quit fooling around other places, or whether they want to continue the war.

And that's something that if they move in that direction, then I wouldn't ask you to stay on.

Right.

Well, I think all we can do is wait a while.

Certainly all our reports now, both military and people from our side, are that we're really performing a hopeless job and there's some pressure to pull out.

But I think that by...

by just saying, well, look, we don't want to scuttle the transes, even if they're very, very slim.

Let's take a couple of months to look at it.

Another thing that I think I should tell you, too, the symbolism of your not moving now, I think, is very important.

It will not just have a crushing effect.

And if you take in a couple of months, the air will be clear.

And if it's clear then...

say thank you very much, but we'll have to find some other way to force the agreement.

And we understand that, but I think right now the symbolism of your

delaying it is going to be extremely helpful, and I am very grateful.

Oh, I'm glad, because the other option would have been to give three months' notice now, and it would have sort of said, well, the thing is not working.

That's right, and we're going to get out, and so forth.

No, I think that doing this is a very statesman-like thing, and I'm most grateful.

Oh, good.

Well, I hope things will improve for everybody concerned, but if they don't, we'll consult again.

Let me say that I know that your interests are the same, or you know whether...

During the years of this long, difficult war, we've all had different ideas as to how to get it over.

But now that we've at least got it tamped down to this point, we can try to play as constructive a role as we can in bringing an uneasy peace to the area.

We should play it.

If it won't work, why we won't play it?

I think that's the strongest argument, Mr. President.

Canadian public opinion has been pretty critical.

Oh, I know.

We've always said we should end it by negotiation.

Now that you have negotiated, I think we sort of owe it to ourselves to be consistent.

Let's give the negotiations a chance, and that's really what we're doing.

Let me say, just speaking in another part, I know this is not...

that it's not going to be helpful to you politically, it'll hurt you politically, but whatever is that for.

But on the other hand, looking at Canada and its place and role in the world, I think it's recognizing the chances of its working may not look as good now if it does,

I mean, you can take, I think, Canada playing a major role in something like this.

I think it's good for, if I may say so, for Canada to do it rather than to say, well, we'll check out and sit on the sidelines and let other people try.

That's quite true.

You're in a very important position here because you're the only country everybody wants in the deal.

And had we pulled out now on the thing really blown up, then they would have said it's kind of our fault.

Yeah, even though other factors would have blown it up anyway.

We have no, quite frankly, we have no better use for our troops at home now.

Marginal utility.

Anyhow, I'm glad that this at least will gain all of us some time.

Let's hope it will work better.

And we'll continue, as I told you, in confidence that we'll continue to work with our Chinese, the Russians, the DRV, and the South Vietnamese.

We'll play every role we can, and hoping that that may mean something about it.

We will remember your move here.

It's very important, and I'm very grateful.

Good.

We'll be announcing at my house at 2 o'clock, if that's good.

Good.

And you can...

I don't think I'll refer to this phone call.

I may refer to... No, you can if you like, unless you think it would be... Harper, you could just say you've informed me that I am grateful and... What I have said thus far is that, sure, the United States has to stay, but other countries have to come.

That's right.

It's better not to, not to.

Right.

And you were sensitive to that yourself to make it look as though you're really asking us for a great favor, then we'll be blamed for the wrong reasons.

Okay.

Whatever you want, though, you're welcome to say it or not, whatever.

Appreciate that.

Help or hurt, either way.

Thank you very much.