{"conversationCode":"440-038","tapeNumber":440,"conversationNumber":38,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-440-038","startDateTime":"1973-05-24T17:36:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-05-24T17:38:00.000Z","startDate":"24-May-1973","startTime":"1:36 PM","endDate":"24-May-1973","endTime":"1:38 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Scott, Hugh;","description":"On May 24, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Hugh Scott met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:36 pm to 1:38 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 440-038 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":"Abuse of Governmental Power Release","aogpSegment":"Segment 0","lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 440-38\n\nDate: May 24, 1973\nTime: 1:36 pm - 1:38 pm\nLocation: Old Executive Office Building\n\nThe President talked with Hugh Scott.\n\n[See Conversation No. 39-4]","filename":["440-038.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Scott, Hugh"],"prevCode":"440-037","nextCode":"440-039","transcript":[{"start":0.44,"end":12.97,"text":"John, I thought you should know that Ziegler and all of our fellows here thought you were never so great as you were yesterday."},{"start":13.15,"end":18.18,"text":"And I'm very grateful."},{"start":18.38,"end":22.44,"text":"And I'm most grateful."},{"start":32.31,"end":36.62,"text":"Now, let's stick to what you read."},{"start":36.64,"end":51.42,"text":"You say that's one thing we can't say, that without secrecy and secret diplomacy, we wouldn't have had the Chinese, we wouldn't have had the Soviet limitation, and the POW would still be in Vietnam, in North Vietnam."},{"start":51.58,"end":60.97,"text":"And therefore, it is a great, you know, it's a great irony when"},{"start":61.98,"end":71.72,"text":"to steal the secrets and publish them, and then, though, to try to protect the national security so that we can conduct negotiations for peace."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Senate Minority Leader Hugh Scott discuss Scott’s recent public performance, with Nixon expressing strong approval of his messaging. The conversation centers on the necessity of secret diplomacy, with Nixon framing the protection of classified information as essential to the success of foreign policy initiatives like opening relations with China, arms limitation with the Soviets, and the return of POWs from Vietnam. Nixon emphasizes the irony of critics undermining national security while the administration attempts to secure long-term peace through confidential negotiations.","topics":["Secret diplomacy","National security","Hugh Scott","Vietnam POWs","Foreign policy","Public relations"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T20:18:50.556Z"},"topicSlugs":["secret-diplomacy","national-security","hugh-scott","vietnam-pows","foreign-policy","public-relations"],"audioDurationSec":84,"audioFiles":[{"file":"440-038.mp3","bytes":2680832,"durationSec":83.67,"bitrate":256334,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:04.739Z","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/440-038.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/440-038","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/440/conversation-440-038","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}