{"conversationCode":"441-002","tapeNumber":441,"conversationNumber":2,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-441-002","startDateTime":"1973-06-04T12:53:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-06-04T13:05:00.000Z","startDate":"4-Jun-1973","startTime":"8:53 AM","endDate":"4-Jun-1973","endTime":"9:05 AM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Haig, Alexander M., Jr.; Bull, Stephen B.;","description":"On June 4, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon, Alexander M. Haig, Jr., and Stephen B. Bull met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 8:53 am to 9:05 am. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 441-002 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":"Abuse of Governmental Power Release","aogpSegment":"Segment 0","lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 441-2\n\nDate: June 4, 1973\nTime: 8:53 - 9:05 am\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President met with Alexander M. Haig.\n\n     Economic paper\n          -Length\n          -Herbert Stein\n               -Haig’s recommendation\n\n     Watergate\n          -John W. Dean, III\n                -Files\n                       -Combinations\n                       -J. Fred Buzhardt’s examination\n                -Conversation with Buzhardt, June 2, 1973\n                       -Personal papers\n                -Possible allegations\n          -White House tapes\n                -President’s possible review of conversations with Dean\n          -White House response\n                -Dean’s materials\n                -President’s possible meeting with Buzhardt and Haig\n          -Dean\n\f                                             -2-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM\n\n                                                             Conversation No. 441-2 (cont’d)\n\n                -Meetings with President\n                      -President’s motives\n           -White House tapes\n                -H. R. (“Bob”) Haldeman\n                -Secret Service\n                -Haldeman’s review\n                -Stephen B. Bull\n\nHaig talked with the White House operator and then Bull at an unknown time between 8:53 am\nand 9:05 am.\n\n[Conversation No. 441-2A]\n\n[Begin telephone conversation]\n\n[See Conversation No. 39-55]\n\n[End telephone conversation]\n\n     White House tapes\n          -Haldeman’s review\n          -Location of President’s review\n          -Secret Service\n\n     Watergate\n          -Dean’s files\n                -Buzhardt’s forthcoming examination\n                -Combinations\n          -Dean\n                -March 21, 1973 meeting with President\n          -Status\n          -A press conference\n\nHaig left at 9:05 am\n\f                                                -3-\n\n                   NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND MUSEUM","filename":["441-002.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Haig, Alexander M., Jr.","Bull, Stephen B."],"prevCode":"441-001","nextCode":"441-003","transcript":[{"start":0.59,"end":1.13,"text":"Come in now."},{"start":1.93,"end":4.27,"text":"I'm reading the economic paper."},{"start":4.29,"end":4.71,"text":"You're right."},{"start":6,"end":8.3,"text":"God, it gets on and on and on and on."},{"start":8.32,"end":12.12,"text":"It's just a... Stein's paper's the best paper."},{"start":12.14,"end":14.11,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":14.59,"end":15.87,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":15.89,"end":19.37,"text":"We've got... We had a little problem I bet it solved."},{"start":20.56,"end":24.94,"text":"A combination of their health and these states, but I've got them all coming in."},{"start":25.98,"end":50.64,"text":"and bazaar is going to do this job now being on saturday asked bazaar to go through this file and get his personal divorce papers and i can't get out right so we're pushing now i think the best thing that we could do most productive"},{"start":51.97,"end":56.08,"text":"In the first place, I want you to know that we're over the hump on this stuff here."},{"start":56.1,"end":56.88,"text":"We're going to kill people."},{"start":57.28,"end":57.98,"text":"We can do it."},{"start":59.84,"end":62.44,"text":"And we have no reason... Well, he can kill us."},{"start":62.46,"end":64.33,"text":"Well, three weeks ago, he could."},{"start":64.35,"end":65.47,"text":"He can't do it today."},{"start":65.57,"end":66.91,"text":"People are over this."},{"start":67.89,"end":69.33,"text":"And that's true on the Hill."},{"start":69.35,"end":72.18,"text":"I don't give a damn what he charges."},{"start":72.2,"end":74.86,"text":"Well, some of them think it's true, you see."},{"start":74.88,"end":76.34,"text":"I don't know what they are."},{"start":76.48,"end":78,"text":"I'll report it myself."},{"start":78.02,"end":78.66,"text":"I don't want..."},{"start":78.68,"end":79.78,"text":"Here's what I recommend."},{"start":79.8,"end":80.33,"text":"All right."},{"start":80.96,"end":87.77,"text":"I think you should get these tapes replayed for you alone."},{"start":87.89,"end":91.5,"text":"And take notes of your discussions with me."},{"start":93.32,"end":95.74,"text":"And they're replayed just for you alone."},{"start":95.76,"end":99.43,"text":"And each of them, take notes so you know what advantage is."},{"start":99.75,"end":102.97,"text":"No, that, you mean my, my personal views?"},{"start":103.78,"end":105.84,"text":"Take your personal discussions with me."},{"start":105.86,"end":107.68,"text":"Just you and no one else."},{"start":107.84,"end":110.25,"text":"Then we have a problem with that."},{"start":110.55,"end":111.75,"text":"I want to know what he has."},{"start":113.97,"end":118.42,"text":"Well, the trouble is, we'll try to find out."},{"start":118.74,"end":120.26,"text":"I don't think the son of a bitch can."},{"start":121.6,"end":124.59,"text":"But you've got to know what he's specifically going to charge."},{"start":125.09,"end":137.36,"text":"And then you can sit down with Bazaar, with your notes, and give Bazaar whatever you want, so that we can strategize wiping the son of a bitch out, and structure the kind of a"},{"start":137.87,"end":142.86,"text":"That way I think you're"},{"start":143.62,"end":155.53,"text":"The uncertainty is at least a background, which is bound to be, you know, I guess we all have a moment of, you don't know what the hell, you know, what you say to give a moment of, you know, what an impressive business."},{"start":155.55,"end":156.88,"text":"Well, it's not just that."},{"start":156.94,"end":160.72,"text":"It's the fact that somebody rushes in, and I say this, and I go this."},{"start":161.36,"end":162.98,"text":"I don't, I think it's all right."},{"start":163.08,"end":166.27,"text":"I don't say, I get it over there, but it doesn't make a damn."},{"start":166.29,"end":167.85,"text":"I know my mother's right."},{"start":167.87,"end":168.41,"text":"That's right."},{"start":168.43,"end":171.65,"text":"It doesn't make a damn whether it is a business, but she knows specifically."},{"start":172.02,"end":174.47,"text":"What the key points are."},{"start":174.65,"end":180.27,"text":"And this should be totally in your... Yeah, where are the tapes?"},{"start":181.03,"end":182.28,"text":"How can I do that?"},{"start":182.3,"end":182.64,"text":"Uh, I don't know."},{"start":182.66,"end":183.34,"text":"I can set it up."},{"start":183.36,"end":187.08,"text":"I don't know what Bob has either."},{"start":187.26,"end":187.32,"text":"Oh!"},{"start":187.34,"end":189.11,"text":"They're here in the, uh, secret service room."},{"start":189.13,"end":191.89,"text":"I think they're going to do this instead of me, so it's strictly you."},{"start":192.55,"end":194.39,"text":"All right, let me get at it right away, can I?"},{"start":194.41,"end":196.94,"text":"Yes, sir."},{"start":196.96,"end":197.36,"text":"Okay."},{"start":198,"end":199.98,"text":"Yes."},{"start":200,"end":200.86,"text":"Yes, uh..."},{"start":202.55,"end":203.15,"text":"Okay."},{"start":204.47,"end":206.1,"text":"He's there on the phone."},{"start":206.12,"end":209.73,"text":"And there's a place where Bob is for one."},{"start":210.5,"end":214.45,"text":"Get the... See the..."},{"start":216.77,"end":239.39,"text":"Thank you."},{"start":239.64,"end":256.38,"text":"If Bob were in a place where he was listening, it may have been in their office or it may have been in their office office there or something like that."},{"start":256.97,"end":276.83,"text":"well you can do a good job right back"},{"start":277.03,"end":294.24,"text":"But Dean has, as soon as he gets, you see on the trailer right now, they say, we're getting, we're getting the combination, we're standing in line, all this crowd is breathing."},{"start":294.26,"end":294.38,"text":"Right."},{"start":294.4,"end":295.34,"text":"We know they're ready to start."},{"start":295.4,"end":295.5,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":295.52,"end":297,"text":"I told you, you know what I mean?"},{"start":297.02,"end":304.29,"text":"I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't,"},{"start":305.6,"end":333.54,"text":"i know three weeks ago i think they saved"},{"start":336.74,"end":358.83,"text":"both probably sucked into that probably um"},{"start":369.41,"end":382.83,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":386.27,"end":408.41,"text":"I don't know."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Alexander Haig met to strategize a defense against John Dean’s potential allegations by securing and auditing White House materials. Haig recommended that the President personally review relevant White House tapes to determine exactly what information Dean might possess and how to counteract his claims. The discussion also addressed the physical security of Dean’s files, with plans for J. Fred Buzhardt to examine the materials and retrieve personal papers.","topics":["Watergate","John Dean","White House tapes","Alexander Haig","J. Fred Buzhardt","Presidential strategy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T20:21:31.937Z"},"topicSlugs":["watergate","john-dean","white-house-tapes","alexander-haig","j-fred-buzhardt","presidential-strategy"],"audioDurationSec":417,"audioFiles":[{"file":"441-002.mp3","bytes":13333348,"durationSec":416.61,"bitrate":256032,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:04.739Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:41.147Z","transcriptGapSeconds":115,"transcriptGapShare":0.27,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/441-002.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/441-002","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/441/conversation-441-002","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}