Conversation 441-035

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I don't believe so, it's urgent.

We're working hard on a number of problems.

the most present at this point.

Going over, we take forward his attorney.

We should know some of the problems of it.

I wouldn't testify so much, although we want to do that again.

And he was very well prepared.

He was very well prepared for these things.

About time.

We're just not anxious to get any of this material on the record.

It's more than we have to until Steve gets on the phone with us.

And we do not want to give away all the other stuff on the record.

We absolutely have to give Dean the ability to position himself to it.

He goes into testify so much that we were discussing the various tactical approaches to keep this stuff.

More is going to be interviewed by the community staff tomorrow morning.

We already got a week's delay.

They might not, Mr. President.

I don't know.

Prosecutors, I've heard this from somebody that uh, not, not, not the hiring board, but the server, are not too keen on being in the office.

I don't know what you do.

He personally told me that.

I called him and said, man, y'all are not in this program.

I don't know how he knows these things.

He said the attorneys are on his attorney.

He's training my cousin, so, is he?

And sometimes I get one attorney to talk to somebody that I can't talk to.

It's a fact that they can

He's told so many stories and none of them have been any good.

He's told different stories?

Well, it puts different shades on it.

All he has done is stay very general to this point.

He has not made a full statement, any of them, even to this day.

Period.

He's an innuendo in general, but he has never been willing to get into detail with it, even off the record, you know.

That's that.

He's looking for immunity before he does something.

Now, I'm advised by Jack Miller, who knows the shape of it very well, who represents the...

And Jack talked to him last night.

He tells me that, um, I asked him if he could find out precisely what the situation was.

He tells me that they're, they're very burned and he will not testify at all unless he has an immunity.

I don't know if he's, uh, he's got an immunity that's excusable.

But the cops made a motion that I was very willing to agree before Judge Dorito.

asking the judge to put conditions on the use of that immunity for both McGruder and Bigg.

That the Senate committee would have to do an executive session without radio or TV for McGruder and Bigg.

And a follow-back decision is to do an open session with no radio or TV.

Well, all this means to us is, I don't think you'll be able to prevail with that.

it will be appealed so these

the decision on his immunity will be later rather than earlier.

And I think it's much higher advantage as soon as possible to get this man on the oath that he's ever gonna be there.

Now I doubt he's gonna testify.

That's the word that Jack Miller used.

He doesn't get transactional immunity.

His lawyer says right now that he will not testify.

That's such a strange job to do in the second hand.

But who's going to get it in the second hand?

Cogs.

Only Cogs.

Cogs.

Not at this point in time.

Not now.

He will be in time.

But he will not give it to him now because this would make it easy for him to go testify in the Senate hearings.

And he's afraid that will follow up his other prosecution.

Because of the problems, there's a very tight legal problems involved here.

The court won't even let him.

I think eventually, if he is convinced that he can give damaging evidence against you, yes.

Because there's no question in my mind that what really lags in cops' minds is to get you.

I'm convinced of that.

What we're working on now is a practical approach.

As a matter of fact, if we can handle it now.

Well, I think I am the only answer.

We've got hard enough.

We've got to get more.

And I think Henry Peterson's testimony is going to be good.

I'm going to try to see Henry tomorrow and sit down with him.

He asked you about what I said.

I think I recollect what I said.

I may have used the word taper.

What I meant is that I should tell you that I do, on occasion, write.

And at that point in time, I was hungry, right?

But on the other hand, I was children at that time.

Those are my, and that's what I meant to say, that I, and my memory's pretty good, but it's not for, not for 60 days, but for 24 hours.

I'll probably have to come back because I wasn't expecting to talk to you.

So, Bob Coleman said in his deposition.

Is that out now?

Yes.

That on the 15th of April, there was someone he talked to by phone.

And at that point, they told you one of the

It's the first time that you've found out that something happened.

And I've got notes down there.

I'm sorry I didn't get them, but that is one we will want to see if you have a recollection of.

There's something happened the first time that you can see.

He's probably wrong about that because what he may be talking about is that

that break-in, because I told you that Dean told me about that break-in in March.

Yes.

But also... Well, it wasn't the break-in.

It was... Did you read the little memo that he gave you that night?

Yes.

Did you notice he said he learned it in the middle of March?

Yes.

I don't know what the hell that...

I didn't find it in the middle of March.

I wasn't talking to him then.

So Dean must have... or they must have found it out themselves in the middle of March.

What do you think happened there?

I don't know.

I don't think he had set the compass at that point, but I think... What do you think he told them?

I don't think they told them.

They probably had passed the word at that time.

Right.

And they had found it out.

But Dean told me, I think around 1730, something in that period, he didn't start to tell anything to that search until about then.

But that didn't bring any value to me.

Was there something that he told you on the 23rd that he had to tell you?

23rd?

No, I didn't tell him on the conversation.

I didn't see him on the conversation.

Did he tell you on the conversation?

No.

No, I didn't tell him on the conversation.

I didn't tell him on the conversation.

You see, I saw him the two days, when you call him, he just came.

And I called him twice on the 22nd, and he just came.

And I don't know that he come to him, that Dean come to him that day.

What is it?

You're tricking my mind.

I'll have to go back and get my notes.

We have no records of those calls at all.

I make a number of notes, and I do not think it's urgent.

I do not think we'll get into it for some little time.

So we won't really have to know.

Where are we?

We've got to go to one of Bob's deposits.

Bob talked about one of my deposits, too.

he talked to him on the phone and talked to you about what to say at some point

he remembered i i said that for the first time on the 21st is being ever called money after the first time uh now and then told about the differences but and i think in that conversation i said you will know however that that's not in the stuff that he gave to him

But on the other hand, I talked to Peterson.

And I talked to Peterson.

I remember, I don't have notes in my car.

I didn't make much until he made them.

You know, I did, like I probably do right now today.

But I did remember that on one occasion I mentioned to him that Dean had told me in the 21st about Pittman.

And Peterson said, yes, my friend Pittman.

You know, I'm just sure he's here.

He apparently knows Pittman.

He doesn't know what's going to happen on that.

But I think that's the first time he ever heard this from me.

So this was after the 15th.

After the 15th?

Yeah.

But you see, again, if somebody were to ask me, you know, why didn't I rush right over and tell them, one of these computers, they told me I was hungry.

I was beating myself.

I recall now what it was.

The fact that Pat Gray, at some point, Bob said in his deposition, if you are to tell Pat Gray, and that Pat Gray told you this was the wrong, it was wrong.

10 days before the knife, before it came out and covered, that Pat had destroyed Doc.

I heard from my parents and said it is out of Vegas.

It was called Pat Gray and I found out for the first time that day.

That was the 15th.

That was on the 15th.

That Pat had destroyed Doc.

Yes, sir.

You see, I should, I mean, here's the sequence.

Well, I'm sure I'm okay.

That's a jerk who came over here and fired Peter.

i guess they figured it well and i said well i'm god's wife and they gave me that piece of picture that's all they did

When you read that piece of paper, that isn't enough to have them resign, you know what I mean?

That was my opinion.

I said that, and Peterson made a comment, I reported to him, he said, well, it's very well to do with the land, but not all of the prison.

So they should resign because everything you do is a question.

I see the light on the back end.

They've been in the service for four and a half years, and they've kept them to me before I have more evidence.

They're clear, so that was that.

Then, after that, what do you think that means?

And that's why the next day, and that's when I do the recitation.

So, to do it again.

But I saw a whole lot of early ones, too.

I went over the whole thing then.

And then, it was then that Burleigh was called, Pat Gray on the phone.

Because, if you notice, that memorandum indicates that Henry Peterson had called for it.

Gray said that he had not handed it out.

So, earlier, when he saw that, he was shocked, and he knew it was him.

He said, he's just a handmaid, and then he found out every day.

He called Pat Gray and said, Pat, do you remember those documents?

And Pat said, yeah, but I didn't, I didn't get it.

He said, do you have them?

Where are they?

And Pat said, I destroyed them.

I remember earlier, like, why?

He said, well, I wrote my career.

That's the story.

And only the next day did Gray finally come around the fuse and the fuse would go to him.

Or the next day or so, it did then.

See, I passed this on to the fuse and then Gray said, yes, I did.

He refreshed his memory.

You see, Gray looks terrible.

This is terrible.

Well, that looks very bad.

But let me tell you, Ivan Peterson, let me tell you.

And when you talk to him, I think he's honorable.

I think he got sucked in by Dean.

Dean, as I've said, made this very brilliant punch, very good punch, and I was like, sometime late March, if he wasn't on the first move back, and it was pretty diffused.

He said, he's a really good soldier.

Well, I thought, well,

That's fine.

I didn't.

Again, it's a question of his looking at it one way and my looking at it another way.

But I suppose Dean, in a curious way, might say that I assume that I knew what he did.

I think he did.

I don't think so.

I doubt it.

He was a...

You see, all through this period, and I don't know about all of them, but believe me, I kept asking

Can we get the whole story out?

Don't cover up.

Let's get the whole story out.

Is that why it comes through?

It comes through very often here, even in some of the draft documents we looked at here.

There were all kinds of motions.

All of them had some motions.

He had some motions to Dean saying, we want to get this whole thing out.

Come up with conversations to that.

Well, there's one document.

Dean wrote a statement and said, in his memo to Bob Holland, he said, here it is, as you know, I have great doubts about coming out with the story.

Dean used to say that the Great Mark Vikings got over.

He said that nobody will believe it.

He gave several reasons for not doing it.

But we always came back to it.

Because what troubled me about it all through there

I wanted to get rid of it.

But that's why I wasn't taking the cover.

He never mentioned the money side.

That's what he was worried about, I'm sure.

I may have told him earlier.

That didn't actually testify about this to the 25th or the 26th.

And that he had destroyed the documents in which John's denomination was withdrawn.

Now, we may have to face the question of why the denomination was not withdrawn as soon as we can find that out.

Now Houston, do we need to talk to Bob and John about this and maybe

explore the reasons why not.

You ought to have a reason of why.

It was just the fact that I was so burdened down with what the heck to do about it.

I never thought about it.

I guess, too, he also, one of the other things was to find out why he destroyed them, what was in them.

Had he read them?

I didn't know.

See, I didn't, I didn't really get a hint.

I, I frankly left it pretty much to Peter to find out, and Clanky, they both were, you have to rely on them.

That's what I would recommend.

Well, that would have been a job for Peter, because he was in the Department of Sanctuary.

That's where he was working.

Yes, and for Peter's sake.

They didn't come in and say, well, we ought to draw the nomination.

In fact, I had probably drawn it before then, I'm not sure.

But there wasn't any reason just to hold it on for that period.

There was no reason not to draw the nomination.

I didn't just think you got to say that.

At that point.

Just say we were checking the backs.

Right.

At that point, besides which, I think you had somebody here that was after that statement.

I'm sure I've been before that statement.

The first statement was one of these statements that, uh, was quite strange, I think, well before the nomination was withdrawn.

the word was passed that the White House was not really interested in the, you know... Oh, no, no, no, no.

No, I'm telling you why it wasn't the White House.

I didn't agree with the procedure on that.

What it was was that we wanted to get in a graceful way to get out.

That was it.

We weren't going to fire him.

And so what we did was to say that we tried to work it out.

We worked it out so that the committee...

So the Eastwood would vote him out.

and then withdraw.

You see, there was something to that involved.

You got my point?

Yes.

I'm sure that that's what it was.

In fact, we started on withdrawing immediately.

We must have started immediately, but you know, it took time.

I remember there was consultation with the committee there, which I didn't understand, but I didn't tell them to do it.

Tell them that somebody did, because I got the word from a couple of senators

That they had gotten the word that the mountain...

The procedure...

I don't know.

It takes time to throw it out there.

We didn't want to ruin the poor man, you know, on the basis of this.

And also, we wanted to get the facts of why he started the accident.

I still don't know.

I still don't know what's in it.

Who knows?

I don't know what's in that stuff.

Did anybody... That's a theme I doubt anybody does at this point except for... Come on.

Bill.

How about feeling?

I don't believe so.

I don't know the word.

Yes, yes, you did.

You did a very responsible job.

I finally looked into this.

And John Dean was fine about it.

He did a tremendous amount of work.

beginning around the first part of 1972.

And that's how this was my experience, because when Johnson County got out of the routine business that we had among council about that time and more and more, I dealt with Fred Field.

And the committee has indicated that they don't think there's any problem.

and the prosecutor to have asked them, you know.

But we want to move him out of the bridge.

If there is, we want to move him out, but I think at the same time, you don't want to go around with a purge.

You don't want to go around with a purge thing because they might be witnesses.

That's right.

He may have just been touched by a tangential...

Then, you know, looking at the gray out there, the culprits, they're gray.

I mean, after all the tape earnings that he had directed the FBI, he didn't order them to destroy them.

Gray had that in practice up there.

I would assume that the camera thought he was going to destroy the guns.

Would you?

I'm like, I don't know.

I'm a great case of cases down the road.

What about, what about, what about this?

Not this thing.

It's over that compounded IPT thing.

IPT.

Yes, sir.

It's over these records.

It's a little bit on best going.

It's a little bit on IPT.

And it's the kind of thing that will be in a normal environment.

No problem.

John was in the middle.

Who?

John Dickens.

Again.

I don't really know.

The substance of it, I don't know.

Whatever all these documents are, were mostly furnished or being furnished by ITT to the committee.

They were ITT records.

These are not going to come out in the future?

Yes, sir.

They're going to come out this year.

Let me tell you the character of the documents as nearly as we can determine.

They were mostly these.

The second is that I can keep writing to each other trying to impress them how much influence and contact they had.

You know, the kind of document that is.

I've talked to so-and-so in the administration, named some pictures.

He's a leader of the SEC or someplace like that.

Most of it is very well exaggerated, they're trying to do.

Why would he write to those writers?

Because it mentioned a lot of administration figures, apparently.

And he was having trouble with justice.

He said, look, we can't just out of a clear blue sky tell you to send those records over here.

They said, we can't just tell you to send those records over here because you haven't said a thing about that, perhaps being a criminal matter at all.

So you have to forward them to us on your own volition.

This is Erickson.

That's what Erickson was saying.

He was saying it to Casey.

Casey was saying, no, you requested it.

But they were not talking to each other directly, primarily.

They were primarily, Casey was going to Dean and saying, look, you get justice to ask for this thing.

Erickson was going to Dean saying, look, reason with Casey.

We can't just ask for him for no reason.

He must give us a reason to ask for him, write us a letter, tell us something before we can ask for him.

Well, as the transaction went, apparently Casey says that Dean told him that Justice Department asked for him.

But he sent a forwarding letter, and Erickson still did not say that he ever asked for them.

He said they were sent over here with a forwarding letter.

And he sent them directly to the criminal division to be examined.

But you've got a bad conflict of testimony there.

It's apparent, I think, that Casey was contacted by somebody now, or somebody else in the administration.

I don't know who.

And it's a normal type of thing of somebody expressing an interest.

But in the present atmosphere, it's weird.

They're going after Casey.

You know, they've got Brad Cooper's suggestions for those.

And there was just enough Casey involvement there that this addition of the I.D.

people in Staggers is pursuing very hard.

The story of today's newspapers are the convicting testimony.

there's another there's another problem here mr president the committee is not really aware of it yet but they're surely going to come across it and look at the records they have they have a large number of records they've gotten one way or the other and it appears that case's testimony has moved the time point in relation to commission

And I'm told by Ralph Erickson that they probably haven't really examined it yet, but they have records that will demonstrate aviation.

Now, we have, I'm just beginning to dig in this, to try to get a feel for this before it goes off.

Notice it's something else than the antitrust kits.

So it's one we've been trying to get ahead of.

Again, I don't say it's inevitable, but there's a problem.

There is a problem.

We are trying to get on top of that because it has an impact across the boat.

So we're looking to try to see where it is.

And see how this thing flies.

Should be where it is.

Men talk to Casey.

I'm going to go back now.

I know who Casey is.

He's a top-notch man.

He's a great guy.

He was a great director.

I'm good at it.

You see, Joe, he had the best knowledge over there.

He had a stupid stack.

I remember he had me on a couple of them, Dr. Phil.

So he'd understand what the problem was.

He'd understand.

He could grasp it by hand.

The staff did not always have enough.

Unless we had the present act of spirit, it would be absolutely enough.

These things happen all the time.

It wouldn't be given a second time.

It wouldn't make any of these things happen.

And it's just the present act of spirit.

Well, don't cave in to it.

I'm telling you this.

Nobody else.

I can say the real case now.

I just want you to know what it is.

I don't know what's in the document.

And that's what I need to talk to good cases to see if it is very important for the document.

Obviously something in those documents.

Ralph Erickson doesn't know what it is.

But there is one box of discretion.

Well, they had a trust with McLaren.

That, I think, pretty well done, pretty well done.

At the head of the deli, we were in that with the Heineken.

But we were in it perfectly legitimately, not on the basis of IGT, but on the basis of that McLaren.

I, uh, spoke to, uh, Prime Minister Mikkel about it.

McLaren was going beyond

There is some problem with the prospectus and the issue and the question of

active sleep of the information will tell me more about it.

It's just that I can't think of any more information.

Now, on the period of getting back to him, I think he's a down-to-earth little guy.

I think he was very, as I told you, he had told me on one occasion that he was going to try to write me a book.

And I wish I had, there was a time issue.

I thought I should come to him and come to the door.

So he must have felt it, feeling the disability.

So, too, he talked about that.

Well, I wish he had.

Did he just try to be a ball player?

He was trying to, you know, get an election going, you know.

I'm trying to bet he saw the situation.

He didn't want to go further than he had to, you know.

That's right.

And we all... And also, nobody really knew that it was going to work, you know.

That's right.

And you talk about, uh, you even take Sloan's case.

Well, all of us in our election period, all of us do not own troubles to break them.

I'll be honest with you, I cut a deal with Senator McClellan and his council on the social service project in one of the maddest cases you've ever seen.

And he worked very well with us.

We've got the whole situation right now.

the procedures and all that, but we worked very hard to make sure that some of the people who went to the meeting, the Republicans, didn't make a big headline splash of it.

So it's a normal art you use, and I'm sure that's what Henry was doing.

Well, you see, when you can, you can imagine the shock.

But anyone that's the Attorney General can refuse and they're not home or let go.

So, I said, well, I'm going to do it.

From then, from the 30th, I just do that.

Trying to work it out, but they do go.

And I do it.

If I need to do it, I pray that I talk to them and do it.

And I do it often.

No, the Friday before the 30th.

Remember I told you yesterday that he told me that we don't need him anymore.

Did Henry or John Dean take him the first time?

That was on April 6th.

That's the first time he was seen.

He may have told me.

If he may have told, I just don't know, but he didn't see, I didn't see Dean, or I didn't talk to Dean, as long as I didn't have Dean.

That's why I asked if, you know, was it Henry, because it was obvious Dean didn't catch him at that time.

I don't know, he didn't come.

I didn't, I wasn't, I didn't catch him.

Now, I wonder if he just, yeah, I don't know whether, by that time, earlier, I got the investigation.

and it may have been told earlier, but he told me, we have early proofs of that.

I don't think he did, or he wouldn't have been surprised by that, I guess.

But he probably was in six to eight moments.

There was all kinds of surprises behind that.

We did earlier than that.

Was he surprised by that?

I don't really know who he found out the first time.

And he's not sure himself, so he doesn't really remember.

But I didn't know what happened.

Now, I don't think anybody told the doctor.

You see, I, for a minute, from the 15th of April on, except for my fellow call from David, our friend, uh,

to Peterson about laying out the national children on the hunt.

Whatever context you might have.

You know, at the time we sent the papers out to the judge.

Then that was the next time I saw Peterson.

And I saw Peterson again.

Incidentally, we now have placed down the logs.

that the doctor will be left.

For some reason, he didn't ask for the law in January, February 17th.

So he really doesn't know that he only saw you from the point, you know, one point seven to one point eight.

He may have probably thought I was probably out of line.

He didn't remember when he saw you.

Well, when he started talking to you, that might be why they got back in January.

Oh, I think he would have.

Well, it was probably deliberate, but he does not have the laws for that period.

But now you've given those laws to him.

He hasn't really given them to him yet.

You see, Dash has not made up his mind what it is he really wants to know.

He just has to defer anything to today's hearings.

And he talked to us.

He didn't know where he was going.

He told me.

So...

We're letting him ask.

Cox has asked horribly, but he said, before you do it, I'll send you a written request.

So we're kind of going to wait on the written request.

We're considering going back and telling him, look, we're going to give you this.

We're not going to withhold it from you.

But you get seen somehow on the oath before we give it to you.

It just doesn't count if it doesn't represent the class.

But when we bring him into the light, we think it's only fair that somewhere he is being of the oath.

And we're wrestling with this one now, whether to approach cops that way.

But we're going to have to reach a decision.

And tactfully, it may be a good move to just tell him, you've got to get being of the oath.

And then we'll get it to him.

That's the only fair way to approach it.

But otherwise, he'll show that to me and be moved.

When he does get under oath, he'll adjust his testimony in court and do his credibility.

Where can Betsy be changing his story as soon as it's on purpose?

We don't think it's fair.

I have a bad idea, Mr. Saylor.

You've got him under oath.

I think we may talk to Dash in that place.

I think we can talk to Dash and Thompson.

Otherwise, the way they're leaking everything to the press, they'd leave it all to the press, and the dean would have immediately his defensive phrase, he'd know exactly what they want.

That's what we want.

We want to be very careful how we handle this, so we don't give the dean an advantage.

We hate this stuff.

You know, as I told you, as I told you, the, uh, looking back, you've got to be recalled.

I was glad I could tell you this.

Oh, my gosh.

Oh, here.

Oh, you're a yellow man.

.

As you know, we've been asked, Kerry Warren has been asked by the press what records were available, whether tapes, whether notes, whether documents to show the complaint.

We wrote Kerry an answer this morning and said that it would not be appropriate to discuss this form.

what information or what evidence is available or what the sheriff's office needs.

And that's what we can do.

Now, I think it's to our advantage to not to tell cops or DAJ or any place that we get into public what is or is not available, you might worry about it, until Dean gets on the phone because Dean doesn't know.

He might suspect the stakes of everything in here.

If he does, fine.

But it's obvious he doesn't know for sure anything.

But he knows very well, Greg.

I'll tell you this, though.

Every girl when they're calling him, he knows they're full notes.

They've got notes.

Because they made it right now.

And then his friends know he has them.

He is extremely worried about the fact that they called him an election candidate.

How do you know?

Because it's counseled so to tell the truth.

That's the only way I know that he gets out of prison.

He knows that Bob and John are going to be out to demolish you.

He's most worried about the technology.

Most worried?

He is most worried about the technology.

But you know, his memory was pretty good, and he didn't make an awful lot of notes, but he does jot down when he gets telephone calls.

He did.

He kept the drafts of documents you were talking about at that time.

you know, the question of executive privilege.

And while he didn't make any notes on them here, he has a good memory of what the Sunday Night of Washington got papers that they had prepared in advance.

Mostly Dean had prepared, and he has most of them that he had made notes on before he came into the meeting.

So he does have a pretty good recollection.

I'm going to go back and put this file to refresh it.

He has a pretty good time with us.

Why is the dean worried about this?

Because of the... You have a debriefing committee.

Oh, yes, sir.

He hasn't been up, but we've been hired.

But you didn't.

I let Schaefer...

He's a great guy.

I let Schaefer go on his testimony this morning.

And I listened.

I mean, I did.

Schaefer.

Jack Miller, who's his attorney.

I've known Jack a long time.

Oh, yeah.

Jack went through his...

scenario with Moore, and I sat and listened, and Jack and I discussed it before it happened, so, you know.

Well, doesn't Moore bear out a money point that I kept asking for?

Can't we get that story out?

Does he bear that out?

I don't know.

Very strong on that.

Did Moore say that there were definitely discussions?

No.

He says that, you see, Dean had told him between the 15th and the 21st

During that period, Dean kind of invited me, and he said, I may be involved in some kind of activity.

And the board said, well, you're just counsel.

How could you do that?

He said, well, you should know.

He told, at some point he told me,

For more detail with you, this is really important.

A day or two before that meeting on the 20th, you've got a bit more work to do.

The day before the meeting on the 20th, you had one on the 20th.

This is the one that set Moore off.

On about the 19th, Moore and I had a meeting at the end of the 20th.

He had told Moore privately that we don't want to go around with a purge thing because they might be witnesses to that.

That's right.

He may have just been touched by a tangential.

Dan, you know, looking at the gray out there, the comfort there is great.

I mean, after all, it's the earth that he has for today.

Yeah.

Dan, you don't look directly at the FBI.

He didn't order a strike.

Gray had that in practice, I said.

I presented Gray out there.

He said, Comfort, Larry Gray.

That's a murder.

The camera's on you, son.

Try it again, sir.

Would you?

My daughter makes excuses.

I'm afraid to take those cases down the front.

Oh, God.

I'm sorry.

I mean, after all, take her in.

What about, what about, what do you mean?

Not this thing.

The double-deck compounded IPP thing.

Oh.

IPP?

Yes, sir.

They sold her to the FBI.

The FBI didn't order her to destroy it.

I'm going to break those cases down the ground.

Oh, God.

What about this one?

Not this one.

It's over that compounded IPT thing.

IPT, yes, sir.

It's over these records in the Justice Department.

It's a little bit on BESCO and it's a little bit on IPT.

And it's the kind of thing that will be in a normal environment, no problems.

Who?

John Dickens.

Again.

You see?

whatever all these documents are, were mostly furnished or being furnished by ITT to the committee.

They were ITT records.

These are not going to come out in the future.

Yes, sir.

They're going to come out, this is sure to be the case.

Now, let me tell you the character of the documents as nearly as we can determine.

They were mostly these executives in ITMQ writing to each other trying to impress them how much influence and contact they had.

You know, the kind of document that is.

I've talked to so-and-so and he's going to tell you to make something.

He's a leader of the SEC or someplace like that.

Most of it is very well exaggerated they're trying to do.

Why would he want to go to Russia?

Because it mentions a lot of the administration figures, apparently we'll move to the Justice Department.

It's a little bit on Vesco, and it's a little bit on ITT.

And it's the kind of thing that will be in a normal environment, no problem.

I've talked to my guy here, and we testified yesterday, Ralph Harris.

And, well, it is best to minimize the conflict.

Who wrote it?

Well, this is the whole dispute.

Who's doing the document?

I only know about that.

Who?

John Dickens.

Again.

You see, Casey New was doing some very sensitive things with these records.

He was afraid Stagger was going to ask for the records.

He's already broken them down.

Now, whatever all these documents are, were mostly furnished or being furnished by ITT to the committee.

They were IPT records.

These are not going to come out in the future.

Yes, they're going to come out.

This is true.

Let me tell you the character of the documents as far as we can determine.

They were mostly these techniques and I can keep writing to each other to impress them how much influence and contact they had.

You know what kind of document that is.

I've talked to so-and-so in the United States, maybe something in the New York, the SEC, someplace like that.

Most of it is fairly well-exaggerated.

They're trying to do it.

Why do you think it goes wrong?

Because it mentions a lot of the non-structural figures, apparently.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then... And then...

He was having trouble with justice.

He said, look, we can't just out of a pure blue sky tell you to send those records over here.

They said, we can't just tell you to send those records over here.

They said, we can't just tell you to send those records over here because you haven't said a thing about that.

They said, we can't just tell you.

So you have to forward them to us on your own volition.

Because there is nothing good.

You just send those records over here because you haven't said a thing.

That's what Arizona said.

So you were saying it to Casey.

Casey was saying, no, you requested it.

But they were not talking to each other about that rash being a criminal matter.

They were primarily, Casey was going to be and saying, so you have to,

Look, you don't have justice.

You don't have to ask for it.

You don't have to do it on your own volition.

Eric was going to be saying, look, the reason was because there is a case.

That's what Eric was saying.

He was saying, too, we can't just ask for it for no reason.

You must do a case.

gave us a reason to ask for them.

Casey was saying, no, you request it.

But they were not talking to each other directly.

Write us a letter, tell us something before we can ask for it.

They were primarily Casey was going to be and saying, well, as the transaction went, look, you get justice.

Apparently, Casey says that to ask for this thing, that

Erickson was going to Dean.

Dean told him that Justice Department asked for him.

And look, reason with Jason.

We can't just ask for him.

He sent a forwarding letter and Erickson still denies it for no reason.

You must give us a reason to ask for them.

Write us a letter.

Tell us something that they will send over to you with an authority letter.

And you send them directly to the criminal division to be examined.

Or we can ask for them.

Well, as the transaction went, you've got a bad conflict of testimony there.

It's apparently, I think,

Casey says that Dean told him that Casey was contacted by somebody in the Justice Department or somebody else.

Asked for him.

I don't know who.

And it's an awful type of thing of somebody pressing in.

But in the present, he sent a forwarding letter.

And Eric's cleared.

There's still denies that he ever had one after Casey.

You know, they got Brad Cook for them.

He said they were sent over here with a 14-minute warning letter.

And he sent a message to those and directed them to the criminal division.

And they were exiled.

Just enough case involvement there that this edition of what you've got a bad conflict of testimony people and the status of the testimony is there.

It's apparent.

It's very hard.

The story of today's newspapers of the conflict in testimony.

I think that Casey was contacted by him.

I wonder if somebody can help.

I don't know who.

There's another problem.

It's a normal type of person.

And it appears that there were just enough cases

The case is testing involvement there, and I'm warning you that this addition of the I.D.

people has moved the time point.

The case is pursuing very hard in relation to commissioning this meeting.

The story of today's newspaper is of a convict and a testimony.

All right.

And I'm talking...

i wonder there's another there's another problem committee is not really aware of

Now, we have, I'm just beginning to come across, digging this with the records they have.

They try to get a, they come in for this before it goes off the desk.

They have a large number of records.

They've got to be able to prosecute that one way or the other.

Notice it's something else.

And it appears that the case is testimony of the prosecution.

I believe that an action started against them in relation to commissioning this by being sent up.

And I'm told, so it's one by Ralph Erickson, but they probably have only been trying to get a complete examination yet, but they hit on it.

We are trying to get on top of that because it hasn't been back across the boat.

I'm just beginning to dig in this to try to get a little bit of this before it goes off.

That's where it is.

Thank you.

He's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a,

There is a problem.

We are on top of that because it's awful.

It has been across the board.

The staff does not always have it.

No, they don't.

A lot of people don't know where it is.

It would be bad if you had this thing.

There's a lot of people who are in the case.

It wouldn't make any use of our KC.

And just the present time, I'm going to go back and see it.

I know it wouldn't be.

He's a, he's a tough one.

Don't, don't tell me what to do.

But, oh, I'm great at what I do.

I'm telling you this.

I know.

Nobody else.

I know.

You're pretty correct.

I'm good at it.

You see, Gerald, I mean, he said he's still chasing it.

He had, he had the best knowledge of it.

They had a stupid staff.

I just want you to know that.

Do you remember Pete?

Yeah, I had a couple of them.

Yeah, I was reading the floor.

I was talking to Bill.

Bill, you got this one.

There's a problem with this staff, what?

I don't know what he's buying.

His staff does not always have it.

Unless we had the present act of spirit, it would be absolutely nothing.

It wouldn't make any of these things happen.

And it's just the present act of spirit.

Well, I'm telling you this.

I know.

Nobody else.

I know.

I can't say there's a real case now.

I just want you to know there's a case now.

I don't know what they've done.

And that's what I need to talk to those cases.

And that's what I need to talk to those cases to see if it is what it is.

Obviously, something has been done.

Dr. Harris has been done.

That there is one way to be a constant of discretion.

That there is one box of... Well, they had, I trust, the... Well, they had, I trust, the...

Right.

I did very well.

That's very well done.

Right?

I did... At the head of the delegate... We did very well.

That's very well done.

At the head of the delegate...

We were in person on the basis of IGT.

And I told the gentleman, it's not on the basis of IGT.

My parents, I spoke to them through Facebook, and I told them, my parents, my parents, my parents, my parents was going beyond

A whole general policy that we set up, you know, Donald John earlier was an attorney.

I always thought that he addressed the issues.

He gave them to the day it was up to be.

I, uh, spoke to, uh, Brian Neeson-Mickle about it in my letter.

He said, uh, at one point, I had just been still formed a special attorney to represent the rest of the House.

It was the order that made me, you know, I was on the TV.

There is some problem with the prospectus and the and the question of at one point I adjusted so far.

There is some problem with that.

I'm curious of getting back to him.

The question of the

No, I'm here to try to get on with that.

I think I'll get to that in a minute.

So he might almost have felt the feelings of this little guy.

I, uh, I think he wanted to tell you, he had told me.

You talked to me about that the other night as well.

I wish you had.

I wish I had.

What do you think happened there with Jim?

Did he just go over and try to be a ball player?

He was trying to, you know.

So he must have felt it.

He was talking about that.

Well, I wish he had.

Did he just try to get involved with it?

He was confident.

And the election's gone.

He did not choose to go further than he had to.

That's right.

He did not choose to go further than he had to.

And it's also difficult.

Nobody really knew that it's difficult.

And you talk about, you have to even take slow and special measures.

And you talk about, you even take slow and special measures.

That's what I'm doing.

Well, all of us in our election period, all of us do not own troubles to break them.

I rock with all of them.

Honestly, I cut a deal with Senator McClellan.

All of us.

All of us are doing not only troubles to break down, but I'll be honest with you, I cut a deal worth of those ones I'm doing.

Some of our people use a total surplus profit.

It's one of the maddest cases you've ever seen.

uh... uh...

And he worked very well with them.

No problem.

So on the procedures and all that, we work very hard to make sure that some of the people in Latin America, some of the people in Latin America know what the Republicans did, like if they get to it, know what the Republicans did, like if they get on, splash up.

They're not going to splash up.

It's a normal thing.

Free.

I'm trying to work it out that they do go.

Thank you.

trying to work it out that he told me that we don't need to do it anymore.

Thank you.

He may have told me anything.

but I just don't see him anymore.

I didn't see Dean, or I didn't talk to Dean, unless I didn't .

I wasn't .

Now, I wonder if he does, I don't know whether, but that time earlier .

He may have told me.

And he may have told, I just don't know, but he said, see, I didn't see Dean, or I didn't talk to Dean, as long as I didn't see anything.

That's why I asked if, you know, was it Henry, because of the zombies Dean didn't catch.

He had that phone number.

He didn't come.

I didn't, I wasn't, I didn't catch him.

Now, I wonder if he just, yeah, I don't know whether, by that time, earlier in this investigation,

They may have hit him so early, but he didn't call me.

He said, can we have early response today?

He said, I don't think he did.

Or we would have been surprised by that, I guess.

But he probably would have been surprised by that, I guess.

I don't really know who found out the 39 days.

And he's not cheering himself, so he doesn't really remember.

So I didn't know what I mean.

Now, I don't think anybody tells the doctor.

Is he hiding from you from the 15th of April on?

So I didn't know what I mean.

Now, I don't think anybody tells the doctor.

Is he hiding from you?

Yeah, from the 15th of April on.

That's why Michael will call some day or two.

I'm trying to find out.

I'm thinking about laying out the name.

I'm trying to find out.

Peterson, about laying out the name.

What other context do I have?

you know, the time we sent the papers out to the judge, well, you know, the time we sent the papers out to the judge, well, that was, that was 4-31, that was 4-31, that was 3-6.

Then, then after the next time, I saw 3-6.

Then, then after the next time, I saw 2-6.

Then I saw 2-6.

That's about all.

That means I'm going to be 11.

I'm going to be 11.

So he really doesn't know that he's on the Saudi personal plane.

Well, he will probably deliver it, but he does not have the laws.

So, well, that's a serious matter.

But aren't you guilty why they got that in January?

He hasn't really given them to me.

Dash has not made up his mind.

He will probably deliver it, but he does not have the laws.

Yeah.

and he said that he just had to defer everything to today's hearings.

He said, no worries.

But now he's only given us a lot of news.

He hasn't really given us anything.

So he dashed the concrete of his mind, what he really wanted to know, and he said he just had to defer everything to today's hearings.

He said, no worries.

He told me this.

So...

We're letting him ask.

So we're kind of going way onward.

We're going back and telling you, look, you know, we're going to give you this.

We're not going to withhold it from you.

But we're considering going back and telling you, look, you know, we're going to give you this.

But you get seen somehow on the oath before we give it to you.

It just tells you not to withhold it from you.

But

You get Dean Campbell and some of the representative clients before we furnish him information.

Now on the oath before we give it to you.

You think it's only fair that some of the representative clients before we furnish him where he is, Dean, on the oath.

We're writing him with this information.

You think it's now whether or not it's only fair that somewhere he is, Dean, on the oath.

We're rising with this one now, but we're going to approach tops that way, but we're going to have to reach the season.

We're going to have to reach the season, and tactfully, it may be a good move.

If you've got tactfully, it may be a good move.

If you've got 15 on the O's, and then we get a season on the O's, and then we get a season.

That's the only fair way to approach it.

By the rise, by the rise, by the rise, he'll show that to me, and be the rise, he'll show that to me, you know.

When he does get on the oath, when he does get on the oath, he'll adjust his testimony, he'll adjust his testimony, he'll adjust his testimony, he'll adjust his testimony, he'll adjust his testimony, he'll adjust his testimony, he'll adjust his testimony,

We don't think it's fair.

Otherwise, they have that idea, Mr. Saylor, that when you lay a hundred old persons, you lay a hundred old people, you're leaking everything to the press.

If you did it all to the press, the dean would have an opinion in his defense.

Otherwise, they have leaking everything to the press.

That's what Boren wants.

We want to be very careful how we handle this.

We want to be very careful how we handle this, so we don't give Dean an advantage.

You can't do stuff.

You know, as I tell you, I told you that, uh, we'll be back.

You know, as I tell you, I told you,

We'll be back.

Oh, my gosh.

.

As you know, we've been asked, Jerry Warren has been asked by the press what records were available for the page, for the notes, for the documents to show the place to be.

We wrote Jerry an answer this morning and said that it would not be appropriate

As you know, we've been asked, Sherry Warren has been asked by the press for records for a label.

We wrote Carrie an answer this morning and said that it would not be appropriate to discuss that this fall.

What information or what evidence is available of what the shower company is?

And that's what we can do this fall.

What information or what evidence is available of what the shower company is?

And that's what we can do this fall.

I think it's to our advantage not to tell cops or bad guys or others about any place.

I think it's to be getting the public to our interest what is or is not available.

My word, until Dean gets advantage, do not tell cops on the open because Dean doesn't want us or bad guys or any place to be getting the public

He knows very well, correct?

I'll put it this way.

He might suspect the stater bird when they're hauling them in.

He noticed everything in here.

If he were to pull notes, they'd got notes.

The way he does, time.

He didn't break them in his presence.

But he knows the lines.

If I ever made a note, he didn't.

But if he, if it's obvious he doesn't know for sure, he's going to need to worry about it.

But he didn't have to call them in.

But he knows very well, Greg, I'll put it this way, that every girl when they're home, he knows they're there.

Because it's counseling, so he tells the captain.

So they made it right after, and then his friends.

He is extremely worried about the fact that they called him an election candidate.

How do you know?

Because his counsel is so telepathic.

That's the only way I know that he's getting out of it.

He's exactly what I told you.

He knows that Bob and John are going to be out to demolish.

The government is most worried about the new coalition.

Most worried.

He did.

He does jot down when he gets off the telephone.

He kept, he did the drafts of, he kept the drafts of documents you were talking about at that time.

You know, the questions that you provided at that time.

You know, while he isn't making any notes on them here, he has a good memory of questions that you provided.

While he isn't making any notes on them here,

He hasn't watched it, but he's got papers that they had prepared in advance.

He doesn't have a pretty good recollection.

We're going to go back to this file for a break.

He had a pretty good time with most of them that he had made notes of before he came in to the meeting.

Why is it being worried about it?

Because of the... You have to be reaching.

He does have a pretty good recollection.

Go back.

He has a pretty good time with them.

Why is it being worried about it?

Because of the... You have to be reaching.

Yes, sir.

He hadn't been up, but we had high hopes for Judah.

He changed for a great job.

I read, he said, I read Shakespeare.

I read for a great book.

I was on the second one.

And I listened.

Jack went through his four, and I sat with him.

This is a video with Jack and I.

Well, doesn't Moore bear out money?

I get to ask you first.

Can't we get that story out?

I don't know.

That was very strong.

Did Moore say that we were never going to be just getting funds?

No.

He said that we were never going to be just getting that.

You see, Dean had told me funds.

No, he says that, you see, Dean had between the 15th and the 21st.

15th and the 21st.

During that period, Dean, during that period, Dean, Dean kind of invited, Dean kind of invited Dean, and he said,

I may be involved in some of these things.

And, oh, you're just counseling.

And, boy, how could you do that?

He said, well, you shouldn't know.

He said, well, you're just counseling.

How could you do that?

He said, well, he told, at some point he told you, before he should know, he told, he told you, this is good, at some point he told you, before he told you,

A day or two before that meeting on the 20th.

The day before the meeting on the 20th.

The day before the meeting on the 20th, that he had a clean office, that you had one on the 20th, that he had a clean office, that you had one on the 20th, that you had one on the 20th, on about the 19th, on about the 19th, on about the 19th, on about the 19th, we had told, Mark and I had a meeting at the end of the 20th,

He had told me a prophecy.

He said, what in heaven's form?

He said, oh, it's about a thing on the Selkirk case, and you don't need to know it.

It'll all come out sometime.

And he wasn't telling you.

Well, when they had the meeting on the 20th, you had the meeting, Dixiel, that.

He knew for sure he could just have a conversation with me.

was talking a very different line to you than he was animating from old.

So when they went out of the office, he said, John, I don't know what you're doing here, but it's clear to me that the president does not know all that's going on here.

And you're not serving him well, nor yourself, not ever.

You've got to tell the president all you know about this.

And Dean said he would think about it.

He said he would think about it.

And he asked to see you the next morning.

Then he picked up the phone and called Dick Moore.

And he told me, he said, well, Dick, the president called.

And I told him I wanted to see him at 10 o'clock in the morning.

I wanted to see him.

And he said, come in at 10 o'clock.

And I've made up my mind.

I'm going to tell it all.

He didn't, but this indicates clearly he had to dig more than he had in WC with that point in time.

Let me tell you, Dean had told me something about the Ellsberg break-in before the 20th version, but he hadn't told me about the Bittman hunt, the Bittman black hunt, is that right?

I wonder what the victim was going to say about that.

He probably would have denied it.

He's got his mind.

He almost passed me, but there's a certain deep, deep fire he possibly got.

And I had, you know, a chance to see him.

I was wondering.

But my, my concern about the nation, the security of it, is whether I may have said, as I said, I know, I know, on the 21st, we can approve a darn thing, you know what I mean?

Uh, the, uh, empowerment will bear that off.

Empowerment, come on.

Because I got over that with him afterwards, I mean, for the, for the reason.

But, at that point, anyway,

The question is whether or not, on the 22nd, after, on the 22nd, I recall that, the day in court, wrote the letter to the judge.

It was the 22nd, the 23rd, the 22nd.

I'm not sure on that, but I think it was the 22nd.

May have been the 22nd.

Yeah, it had to be the 22nd.

I don't know.

Whether I might or might not be, I don't believe there's ever any discussion about that.

Whether or not Hunt was going to fall.

Well.

I was investigating that.

I had probably, when you get to the 21st, I really knew that after the 21st, we don't worry about them.

Even if I had said to somebody else, somebody else saw it or somebody, I would try and find out what the heck was going on.

The 23rd was on the front.

23rd.

The 21st was on the wings.

22nd was on the third.

23rd was on the front.

And I'll have to check to see whether you're sure you're on the right month here, and I'm sure you're 26, 26, and 8, 1, 2, 7, 3.

I don't think so.

It was the 22nd or the 23rd, I believe it was the 23rd, your telephone conversation.

And I, as I recall, the last personal conversation was the 21st.

The 22nd.

I believe you came back in on the 22nd with... Oh, the 21st.

You came back in on the 22nd with Bob, John, and David.

That's correct.

Then I called in and they were the 23rd.

Well, you called in first here.

Here, on the 22nd.

Well, I think those calls, what they were about was that he was being harassed because something had been said about him or something.

And I said, we're at Camp David.

You know, they'd go in the house and they'd do the writing piece.

And I called him after he got to camp today.

That's the way we've been doing this stuff.

He told me on the first call, I was going to Camp David.

And he went straight on and he called me back.

I think that was on Friday or something.

I'm not sure if he stayed in court or not.

Incidentally, trying to put together a trial of the amount of events.

So we can see on each day, we can parallel from the newspaper accounts what happened outside.

But I understand what happened here.

.

I think I told you the closer you want to be to someone, the closer you want to be to someone

so that they could have .

Well, Colson was actually on the road himself, but he never served at that.

Right, it wasn't me.

We changed the .

You're right.

One other thing I remember, I kept it.

I said it to him a lot of the time.

I said, why don't you write a letter under oath to the committee?

He's entered the event personally.

If you know that, that letter, that letter on the 20th, uh, print, was a letter under oath.

That's what, yes, that was basically, I finally got him to do that on the 20th.

And the 21st, I guess it was obvious by the 21st what he had said on the oath, and the letter was just not true.

I don't know.

I haven't read that statement.

That's a good job.

Well, I think as far as it goes, it was very good.

I think one of the most interesting...

But he can't say, let me say, I do know this too, because this is one thing I was interested in.

And he said over and over again, and that was a shame.

And Sloan was a, he told me one day that Sloan was scared.

For poor reasons of my understanding.

And Ritter gave me a message that he got on the floor.

And you know, I should have probably gathered at that time that Sloan was scared to do it.

But maybe that evolved.

But on the other hand,

i was assuming all the time that they weren't and they were just didn't like the dean was trying to get my computer getting dragged in here's his job

But again, it was a, on that one, it told me about the crime.

I checked the phone.

I said, no, you didn't have to.

uh...

And there was nothing to do about it.

And Bob would turn that over to them.

He didn't turn that over to them.

I asked him for all the things they could turn over to him.

What did why he turn that over to them?

Well, the route concluder says that a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one never knew, a hard one

And that, but I mean, it's a, if the question ever comes up to me as to whether I ever saw him in the garbage, I was too busy, right?

But I mean, if all of us saw him, he never would have brought any of us back, right?

But what I'm saying is that this is what McCruder was saying on the tape.

And they were really, he'd be calling up, you know, because they thought he had started to, I don't know, what was the first thing?

And he was denied.

He said, I wouldn't say it, because at this point, I'm convinced the only thing for me to do is tell the truth.

I said, anything at all, and not to report it to one of the officials, one of his test and prosecutors.

And he said, I wouldn't say it, because I'm convinced I should.

I'm going to say the truth.

And the truth is that Hockleman didn't know.

The president didn't know.

He kept saying to me,

No one in the White House was involved with these people.

I remember one occasion I said, no, not her, not Dean.

He said, no.

But he said, it's God.

Maybe he saw the truth.

That's what he heard.

He was praying.

He said, everything else is in my hands.

The poor guy thought he was doing what he liked, you know, and he just got in too deep.

But he should have, that might have invited him some way.

And then I said, look, uh, and he eventually did it on the front porch, but then I told him, the governor said, why didn't you tell him how to come up with the whole thing?

I was not going to tell him that.

He didn't.

He didn't tell him that.

I said, well, the third group didn't.

I said, hey, I'm a man.

He didn't tell me.

I said, I'm sorry.

He was 17.

He said, no one in the violence, except an enemy computer, possibly strong.

He said, absolutely no one.

No, no, no.

That was based on his conversation with Liddy.

He asked Liddy, right afterwards, if he had a conversation with him.

He said, no one in the violence involved, except possibly strong.

We will also start work tomorrow with the committee.

All staff will see to what we can do on the question from the cross-examination to explore it.

I do not think that Dean will be testifying this week.

He doesn't know enough about it yet that we even know what he's doing.

He said, I could report to you in full detail, but not in writing.

That was a funny, that was, but that's what he said to me.

Oh boy.

That's too bad.

Yes, what do you mean?

There's a different attitude.

You know, your appointment yesterday made a big impression on me.

What do you mean?

Laird and Haig's retirement.

On Haig's part, he chose a great deal of confidence.

And Larry said, you know, he said, they know.

Mr. President, I wouldn't have done that.

Well, absolutely.

And it would be a rocky road for a while, but when it all came up, you'd be

We have only, we have only this, this one clinker in the conversation.

Which is it?

No, it is a clinker because I did raise questions.

I can't get them out.

I said, how much would it cost over four years?

But then we, then I said, no, we can't go there.

and I just recovered to a certain extent, I'll have to go back there.

God, in my statement, said it again, and that statement, which is probably true.

So, I, that one is the problem.

Sure.

But it's not an insurmountable problem at all.

That's not a big problem.

The only guy that I'm not involved with.

I don't know.

What there is a better...

a better feeling and a better attitude that i can essentially give a debate among people you know people would have been helpful for sure and uh everybody's loosened up a little bit

Right after the prison, the shit will still fly around, but I don't think it's going to stick.

If it gets kind of expressed, believe me, the kid was reduced to a little today.

He'll be a little stronger.

He'll be strong.

I don't believe you.

Can't you have a strong woman?

I'm going to sit with Casey just in case I can't.

He's already tested.

Yeah.

And I could say that he's never injured, but I mean...

Well, I'm going to talk to them to see what can be done.

The case of, they didn't get any favors in the case.

That's right.

In fact, they had a trust case.

They got a terrible case.

All right.

I'm sure very strongly about that, Mr. President.

They went far too far with their trust.

And they've got one guest out of D.M.

now.

That's right.

Raising the devil without faith.

That's right.

They're doing another one with IBM right now.

That was the idea.

Let's just stay miles and miles away from it.

I think that's probably the best.

Some of the departments have to.

Am I getting into the RPG thing on that occasion?

He said, because they, at that time, were violating.

He said, what we've been doing with IEP had to do with their policy that we would all agree around the cabinet.

I said, I'm very worried I'm not going to do that anymore.

That was the one that went around.

Yeah, that was the one that went around.

Do you really think that the point that Dean is making, that they will give him energy?

They will give him useful energy.

Every day.

If you take that.

His attorney says not.

He should.

His attorney says not.

Now, there's always a possibility it's right down to the wire.

He's been sent beyond a shadow of a doubt that he will get nothing out.

that we will go ahead and testify in an attempt to foul up any substance from the lay of basis or poisoning in future prosecutions.

Probably in that case, it would take on the credit, I think.

I don't think he would have less incentive at that point, except to, I think he would actually have less incentive then.

His incentive on taking you on was the first time, but this is not through Mattis.

I think he hopes that he'll feel.

He shouldn't.

But I think it's because he is trying to stretch it as far as possible to induce the prosecutor to make a transaction.

But if he gets a transaction, then won't the prosecutor force him to get the criminal?

He was right, unfortunately, but at that point, once he gives it, before Dean gives his testimony under oath, Dean's going to have a different incentive, no matter what the prosecutor says, because he doesn't want to go to jail for perjury.

Yeah.

That's why I don't want to let him know what evidence exists, all right, until he goes under oath, because I would like for him to worry about it, rather than on perjury oath.

You've got to remember the only people that can get him on perjury are third parties.

I can't deal with it.

We can't deal with it, Mr. President.

I haven't got a thing that I can give him.

I know, but I don't want him to know that.

Sure.

You may want him to think that I have a case that he might turn over.

Yes, sir.

It would blow me a bit.

I would never say anything about that.

No.

There are many people that think there's such a possibility.

You know, people outside, the attorneys and all.

Some of them have suggested it to me.

I didn't discourage it.

I didn't say, you know, I don't know.

Maybe that's a possibility.

I've known her as the attorney for Rich, for Rich and Moe.

Is he good?

Yes, very good, very good man.

And he has a contract.

He's one of the few Republicans who served in the Department of Justice in the Kennedy administration.

And yet, he's a very good Republican and a very good lawyer.

And Jack, of course, was talking to James Rogers.

I suspect that this possibility was discussed with them.

We, at their instance, and Jake's instance, you know, Jake or I, we brought it up.

Now, there's every indication they're worried about this.

I see no reason to take this concern off their backs.

I wouldn't mislead them.

But I don't want to say anything that will relieve their concern.

I just don't think we have to make, we should do, hold back as far as we can.

That's the point, then you wouldn't have all of America to say anything more.

They already, none of them, they were just covered in air.

That was it.

They did not testify in conversation.

No, sir.

They haven't testified about anything.

And they did that on the grounds that the suit only went, or it claimed damages through the action of the 17th.

And therefore, it was irrelevant.

Yeah.

So, I talked a long time to Frank Strickland.

And one thing we agreed on is that we'll give you... No, let me ask you this.

They can cry.

But haven't they testified that in these kinds of situations, you're not supposed to know what you do, don't you?

The grand jury has one jury that you can do, beginning to work the jury box.

No, they haven't.

I mean, despite what Cox says.

Cox thinks he can.

But Silver has never, to his credit, he has never, as nearly as I can tell, tried to emphasize evidence which would implicate you before the grand jury.

and neither have the other prosecutors.

It's hard to find out.

We pick up as we go along.

How long?

About three weeks.

get into this drama and forget the way you get what you get.

Probably you can see that my problem is the reason my notes are so bright on Terry and the recollections are so unclear.

He said, I have that whole world of mine in my mind.

You know, you just can't read today.

If I was living on this thing, I could remember it.

But it's maybe just as well.

It's as well.

I don't have it as well.

Well, I think we've got a pretty good team on the couch right now, and we're trying to score every pass.

Listen, there's only one thing we can do this week, and that is score 5,000.

I don't want to get hurt, I don't want, I don't want to get hurt, but that lovable guy, you know, Pat, Pat, Pat, Pat, Pat, Pat, Pat, Pat, Pat, Pat, Pat,

Now, that would make him guilty.

I'm sure if he not invested in you, the money was to be used for a medical purpose, and he was part of the conspiracy.

That would be his motive.

I mean, that's a question.

That's a question.

I didn't know he was brought in, but it's not a question.

You've got to go through Vesco first.

You've just got to go through Vesco.

You're going to have to go through Cargill, Brown, Fletcher, Fort Vesco, another one.

But I'll probably unlist it, because it's best to buy it.

But we'll grant you it in time.

It's not repeated.

You mean it's going to be indelible perjury?

But then wouldn't you have to be testifying?

Indelible perjury, or what we use to put self-intervention on.

Is that the number?

What is it?

Why would you do that?

Is there a chance to get off?

Do you know, sir?

I, you know, you run up on people out, but then there's a lot of stuff on the clock.

And we just have a problem with our floorboards out there.

Because we had a fellow that was a former preacher, he was chairman of the parole board, and he wanted everybody to confess and repent before they got paroled.

They were all convicted and they think they're innocent.

Well, I had a number of clients that I knew very well were guilty.

But there were a couple of friends who had a wife and small children.

They felt that regardless of what happened to them, I don't know, discussing whether or not they took a plea, because they've gotten to someone like a son in some cases.

I don't want to go into detail.

I've had a Detroit son for about five years.

If he would have pleaded, pleaded, it would have gone wrong.

And he said, no, I wasn't affected by it either.

He said, I want to maintain my innocence throughout.

He said, you know, that's the only thing my wife and children have to hang on to.

He said, I've done enough for them.

He said, they'll probably think I killed them.

But he said, I expect they'll be able to hold their heads up a little better.

If I always maintain how I've been doing.

If he doesn't, he makes a lie.

Well, this fellow just took me out of use.

He said, when he could have gotten the parole.

He said, absolutely.

I will not say I'm guilty.

I'll serve out the term.

What do you visualize having to make sure that you're convicted?

Yes.

I have to look at it that way.

Unless?

Unless the trials are filed up, and I think on the Watergate thing, there's a good chance the trials will be filed up, but I think there's less chance on Vesta.

On Vesta, do you think later we got enough?

I'm afraid so.

I think it'll be a long, difficult course to go.

There's a lot of trials, problems to deal with.

Well represented.

We all do now.

And Brown is a former attorney general in the United States.

Lincoln was a former attorney general in the United States.

I don't know.

You know, you know, yeah.

Poor John always got it early.

Yeah.

He was very patient.

I don't want to meet you.

I will check on the tapestry and see what I can do about that.

I don't want to send him.

They haven't shown any interest

I was saying to the committee, they haven't shown any interest.

How do you know what comes next?

How do you know, because we kind of checked on them, because we kind of checked on them, what is there on the D-Link that we need to get around?

They haven't shown any interest.

How do you know what is there on the D-Link that we need to get around?

But we can kind of have them put on there.

It could be like, you know, at the funeral place, you know, probably quiet and dry and what comes, we kind of check on what is there and I'd be like, we can kind of have them put on there.

But it's part of the job.

It could be like, you know, at the funeral place, you know, at the funeral place, you know,

Well, if you do, you might let me know.

Okay.

He raised money for the poor.

He was totally aware of the place in which he was under the bed.

He was never doing anything wrong.

I know we did.

I just, I mean, I know a man he's told me I've ever talked to him about it.

I know he did.

Brown, the finest thing is, Jordan, if you can't drill the screw, don't drill it.

Brown, the finest thing is, Jordan, if you can't drill the screw, don't drill it all along now, because it might trigger an error.

I don't want to use this.

Cut me further this way.

Don't drill it all along now, because it might trigger an error.

I don't want to use this.

Cut me further this way.

To find out the cause... To find out the cause... To find out the cause... To find out the cause...

You may be, frankly, whether I anticipate increasing.

Whether I anticipate increasing.

I would think so.

Whether I anticipate increasing.

I would think so.

If it comes up.

I would think so.

If it comes up.

I wouldn't ask.

I wouldn't ask about his name.

But we'll see if we can, without ever, see if we can, without ever, see if we can, without ever mention his name.

I'll see what I can find out about mentioning his name.

I'll see what I can find out about who they're getting into again.

Mention his name.

I'll see what I can find out about who they're getting into again.

What they're getting into again.

And Dean might evolve.

Good.

Yeah.

This thing.

One stick.

This thing.

One stick.

I'm facing most people that you did.

Most people that you probably did.

Most people think you probably already covered it up.

And we are, and I'm proud of the name that we have on the business of this country.

And I'm proud of the name that we have on the business of this country.

And I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and I accept, and

But we, we have a huge, uh, President's Council association involved, next equation here, where, we have a huge association here, where, uh, President's Council association involved, never put the question down.

Uh, President's Council network is one of the dual partners, both involved, never put the, never talked about the question.

John Mitchell, one of the law partners, never had a problem with prevention, though, back in the day.

He was John's admirer.

Never mention the letter.

Never, never.

And that's it.

The fact that they have to prove the response of money.

You've got to know the truth.

Nobody will ever believe it.

You've got to deal with it because you know how it works.

Never, never.

And that's it.

You've got to know the truth.

You've got to deal with it because you know how it works.

John Mitchell was one of the law partners and both of them never talked to me about the president.

John Earth and Bob Holman never mentioned the fact that they had to produce a responsive money for the president.

Never, never, never.

And that's easy.

You've got to do it.

You've got to do it because you know how it works.

Okay, next one.

Good point.

Media-free.

What's the media-free?

The impression.

.

We've been damaged.

Incredible.

We've been damaged with this.

Incredible.

We've been damaged with this.

We can't go.

.

You know, we've got a lot of, we've got a lot of witnesses, so, you know, we've got a lot of witnesses, so.

We've got a lot of witnesses, so.

and silver and silver and silver

Why do I fight?

and part of the conspiracy and part of the conspiracy and part of the conspiracy and part of the conspiracy and part of the conspiracy and part of the conspiracy and part of the conspiracy and part of the conspiracy and part of the conspiracy and part of the conspiracy and part of the conspiracy and part of the conspiracy

They're methodically building a case that did not really investigate the case as thoroughly

as thoroughly as the other one should.

And they're going to try to show that a couple of them, and they're going to try to show, and they're going to try to show, I doubt that a couple of them, I doubt they're going to make it out, but they're going to make it out, I doubt they're going to make it out from this marriage, but they're going to make it out from this marriage,

Huh?

... ... ... ... ... ...

You raised two birds, you've got to clean up.

You've got to put a stake in place.

You've got to clean up.

You've got to put a stake in place.

I want to know what it is.

You've got the vehicle stand up on.

Have you kept any names on it?

You would think, you would think, in a sentence, in a sentence, if I had problems, if I had problems, if I had problems, if I had problems,

Do I trust you?

Would you agree?

No?

Why are you risking?

Dean White.

Is that a doubt?

There's another

I don't think, I don't think Ray, Ray, Ray delivered to the train company.

Delivered to the train company.

I don't know.

And, uh, and, uh, and, uh,

My conversation with him indicated that he should have, indicated that he should have, indicated that he should have, indicated that he should have, indicated that he should have, indicated that he should have,

um is

Well, he had his orders.

I don't think anybody...

I don't think anybody found him in New York City.

I don't think Dean had a cold.

Right over there.

Well, I don't think Greg would raise that as a president.

The president, the only, all the press he takes from official green is being noticed.

During the investigation, although, during the investigation,

I don't know how much I can believe that

I don't know, without knowing how much, and without being pushed too much, how that felt in my mind, would have found, I can believe that that's a terrible thought, and without being pushed too much, and going beyond that, would have found, going beyond that,

going into areas that might expose, you know what I mean?

I think that's what we're doing.

Going beyond it, we're going, I don't, going out of the main motivation basically was to protect on, going into areas that might expose the biopsies, the biopsies, you know what I'm saying?

I don't think so.

He had to know.

The main motivation to protect John Mason, I would say, was to protect the White House.

The White House knew.

Dean knew McGirt was not involved.

He had to know.

He was there.

I think Dean was motivated throughout this thing.

Because he had former clergy.

So therefore, he had no conviction.

I think that was the whole thing for him throughout his life, was to protect John Mason.

I believe that.

Being new to McCurdy, and how they get past him, somewhat restraining the investigation, it was excellent.

Because he was there with his former clergy.

So therefore, he had no conviction.

I don't know that he did.

What would you have done?

I think that was the whole thing, Frank, to us.

And I think it, it happened.

I don't know.

I'm not, I'm not somewhat convinced I wasn't in that position.

Yeah.

I don't know.

It was also, I don't know.

I don't understand it.

I don't know the answer to that.

It's so easy to speak about this.

It's terrible.

I did.

I don't know.

There's still some.

I don't know.

It's so easy to speak about this terrible fire, but I just don't deliberately try to destroy it for me.

There's still some, you know, for me, I think he might have been dragging it in somewhere.

I don't know.

Covering up, I don't know.

It's really important, but...

You just don't deliberately try to destroy it.

I mean, I think he might have been dragging it in some way.

The only thing he did from the picture we got green is his being known.

Although, during the investigation in the 70s, I don't know if it was in the 70s, but it was in the 70s.

I don't know how much, how Pat felt about me.

I can believe that Pat, without being pushing too much, would have found a terrible father.

And going beyond that, we're going beyond, going into areas that might expose them.

I don't think Dean's motivation basically was to protect the White House.

The White House he knew was not involved.

I think Dean was motivation throughout this thing.

Because he had to know.

He had to know.

It was a protect job mission.

I believe so.

Being new to McGirtterville, he had to know.

Because he was there with the Department of Courtship.

So, therefore, he didn't mention it.

I think that was the whole thing for him throughout.

And I think if, if passed, somewhat restraining the investigation, it was also on the part of the foundation.

I don't know that he did.

I don't know.

I'm not telling them that I wasn't in that position.

Yeah.

We're talking about, you've gone hard.

I've got to understand these things.

I don't, it's so easy, this speech has been terrible.

There's still some, I don't mean, I don't mean covering up, I don't mean, but...

You just don't deliberately try to destroy it.

I mean, I think he might have been dragging it in somewhere.

You really...

It was a very difficult time.

I can see that I made up my own reason to leave.

It was a very difficult time.

I can see that I made up my own reason to leave.

Yeah, you know, I... Yeah, you know, I...

I was pushed to the wall.

I'm like, find me a better disabled leader.

Yeah, you know, I...

I was pushed to the wall.

I got a terrible panic wall.

I'm like, find me a better disabled leader.

I got a terrible panic emergency.

I got the emergency.

I got a terrible...

I was gotten to get out of a panic emergency.

And that's what I, I would hope I did that, Mr. President.

I was, got to get out of it.

Got to get out of it.

And that's what I, I would, Mr. President.

And that's what I, I would hope I did that, Mr. President.

And I would hope I did that, Mr. President.

But it would be very difficult, but it would be very difficult to do in a man that you work for.

To do in a man that you work for.

Well, it could be one of the things that you couldn't bring yourself to.

You well know.

To do in a man that you work for.

Well, it could be one of the things that you couldn't bring yourself to.

It could be one of the things that you couldn't bring yourself to.

You well know.

It's only because of the client that this is going to happen.

in terms of influence, federalism, and the rest.

This is what the Clintons communicate.

Influence, federalism, and the rest.

This is not what the Clintons communicate.

You know, we merely are.

We merely are.

We just don't allow it.

White House, the Earth, and the Rector's Street.

White House, I know.

The Earth and the Rector's Street, I know.

I know, but it never talks to me about the Antichrist.

I know, but it never talks to me about the Antichrist the whole time.

But here we have the whole time.

Here we are.

I work on the hill.

I knew Bobby Baker very well.

He tried to hire me for it.

I knew Bobby Baker very well.

He tried to put me in public relations.

He tried to hire me for it.

uh my wife

I've seen this, so I know.

I've seen this, so I know

We'll have to work within that room.

You can be sure it's another.

Your name, or a year's system.

Or a year's system.

Everybody is going to be sold.

So straight arrow on this stuff.

We're probably doing it to some people.

So straight arrow on this stuff.

We're probably doing it to some people.

I worry very much about people.

I worry very much about people really not being able to do their jobs.

I worry very much about people

I'm really not being able to do this.

I have reluctance to talk to people.

I'm out of health.

It's the reluctance.

It's the reluctance that bothers me.

I have reluctance to talk to people.

I'm out of health.

Everybody wants to follow up with vaccines.

We had nominees coming to follow up with vaccines.

We had nominees out of the test, coming through the test, out of the test.

There's a reluctance to follow up with people that weren't vaccinated.

You know, everybody wants to know about it.

People that weren't confessed and flinched, you know, they want to go on the telecom, they want to confess and flinch, you know, they want to go on the telecom committee, and I got on speed, I got on speed when I was 19, when I was 18, when I was, we had nominees, and I knew the best about them, and I had people that weren't confessed and flinched, you know, they want to go on the telecom committee, and I got on speed when I was 19, and all those sorts of things.

What's up

there is no no requirement there is no no

There is no no requirement.

You're satisfied.

Conduct.

There's no necessity for that.

You can see the reaction.

And I find times that I've seen people that now

Hasn't been taking the time to talk to these people who have legitimate business with the government.

What do you think is going to be the weekend?

Yes, sir.

I'm hoping still for Henry to have something.

I'm hoping still for Henry to have news that will...

I have some news that will...

I'm hoping still for Henry to have some news that will... Oh, Henry the Leaser.

Yes, I'm hoping Henry will... Oh, Henry the Leaser.

Yes, I'm hoping Henry will... No, but I haven't heard of the enemy one.

Come on, come on.

It's their Saturday Sunday read.

They already had a Saturday Sunday.

That's a good day right for that.

No, but I haven't heard of the enemy one.

Come on, come on.

It's their Saturday Sunday read.

Respect this week.

I suspect this week will be more of a recap.

they may come out with a story they may come out with a story

You can see him riding off the wall.

Of the wall.

Rumors of additional burglaries.

I expect somebody's going to put together a story on this at some point.

Additional burglaries?

Yes.

Well, they won't know by whom, and I don't think they're going to let go.

Yes.

Well, they won't know by whom, and I don't think they're going to let go.

I think they're going to let go.

I think they're coming from the lake somewhere.

You think they're right?

That's what I'm saying.

I don't believe the word.

I don't think they're right.

That's what I'm saying.

I don't believe they're working.

They are going around.

have been asked questions today.

Some of the witnesses, and the term has been used in the presence of the women, and I don't know what they're talking about, have been asked questions and determined that we have been able to find out... Where is it?

Do you think there is one?

I don't believe so.

In the presence of the women, and I don't know what they're talking about, we have been able to find out... Where is it?

I don't believe.

I think we must go.

But we must know most of these things now.

I don't believe so.

I don't believe.

I think we must go.

But if they run out of other things, I suspect this is a type of.

But we must know most of these things now.

Hopefully so.

But they won't run.

We've had straw stages, places we've broken into.

If they run out of other things, I suspect this is a type of thing they will run.

Somebody else now, one of the...

Straws are just broken into wind.

Straws, the... We've had straws, they just...

The place was broken into... We've had... Yeah, but recently...

I was going to say, last summer in Texas, this home was somebody else now, one of the...

Straws are just broken into wind.

Straws, the...

I'm broken into wind.

My guys were a youth that didn't pay any attention to Sprouse or anything like that.

Yeah, but recently, he said last summer he broke into my doctor's office twice.

Shore said that his house was broken.

In Texas, his home was broken.

My guys were a good...

you know people are coming up say on the wheelchair somebody broke into the youth they didn't pay any attention they broke into my doctor's office throughout their house nothing was ever missing they said their place was destroyed so he was fancy so running away from people the new york shore said that his house

i'm sure sometimes somebody's going to sit down and try to come around you know people are coming up say on the wheelchair somebody broke into their house nothing was ever like uh first you know we'll sit down and try to put it together we covered that i think we've got that in the cover

We can anticipate that at some point we'll see another speculation story.

They may come out with a story one day or another.

Incidentally, they have tried very hard.

You can see them writing off the walls.

They haven't gotten any of it so far.

They've done a huge deal of rumors of additional burglars.

I expect somebody's going to put this together.

And I'm sure at some time somebody's going to sit down and try to find out, like, first, you know, we'll sit down and try to put this together.

So we're going to use it at some point.

Additional burglars.

You mean by a lot of burglars?

I don't think they're going to try to lay on the farm.

I think they're going to try to lay somewhere on the dust.

They really think there's something there, so we keep going and asking questions.

And, uh, incidentally, they have, they have tried very hard.

That's what I, I don't know.

I don't believe the word.

I don't think it's getting absolutely right.

They're straight-throwing.

Everybody was doing it.

I don't think they did any work like that.

we could never have the level of a single standard or trying to investigate these two.

Obviously, we've been working.

I kept asking early on.

That's what other people have all wanted.

I don't believe they weren't.

I don't believe they didn't.

They'll be working hard on this fellow when things start to review.

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to talk to them.

They are going around the world.

They really think that he's getting in trouble.

They have a song about someone doing something.

They come in and ask a question.

We haven't got anybody to investigate any of them.

Some of the witnesses have been asked

I don't believe so.

I think we must go.

We must know most of these things now.

If they run out of other things, I suspect this is the type of thing they would want.

We've had trials, seizures.

I think what would give me greater pleasure is if Chuck Colson, when he started out, he was spoken into.

We've had somebody else now, one of the rosters is getting in color.

We have some, like someone in the color broken in the wind, draws the, draws where the thing is, the chairman.

You know, just a little few things to wrap around.

I think they were doing a good job recently.

I was going to say, last summer in Texas, his home was probably burned.

And we all know that the sun is there yet.

Right.

Thank you.

They aren't real sure if somebody broke into their house.

Nothing was ever missing.

They took their papers with them.

So, people's fancies are running away from them.

And, I'm sure that sometimes somebody's gonna sit down and try to find her.

Like, Hirsch will sit down and try to put it together with each other.

So, we anticipate that at some point we'll see another speculation story.

Incidentally, they have, they have tried very hard on the investigation.

They've done abuse to the only couple.

Of all the ones, Brady and Brady and Dean.

And, and Trotman's.

And it just moves on and on.

They really think there's something there, so they keep going and asking questions.

And, uh, we're getting absolutely nothing.

Very straight forward.

We could never have developed a single standard for going in and trying to investigate the deaths of other people too.

violence in our convention than in New York and Los Angeles.

I wish our people had been more sustainable.

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than Chuck Colson when he started asking if he was getting him.

Tell us.

Have a song about someone getting him.

Tell us.

You know, just a few things to wrap around.

I think they were doing this together way first.

And we all know that the son is there to get him.

There is why we haven't got anybody to admit to you.

Good luck.

Thank you.