{"conversationCode":"442-021","tapeNumber":442,"conversationNumber":21,"identifier":"37-wht-conversation-442-021","startDateTime":"1973-06-04T17:29:00.000Z","endDateTime":"1973-06-04T17:36:00.000Z","startDate":"4-Jun-1973","startTime":"1:29 PM","endDate":"4-Jun-1973","endTime":"1:36 PM","dateCertainty":"certain","timeCertainty":"certain","participants":"Nixon, Richard M. (President); Ziegler, Ronald L.;","description":"On June 4, 1973, President Richard M. Nixon and Ronald L. Ziegler met in the President's office in the Old Executive Office Building from 1:29 pm to 1:36 pm. The Old Executive Office Building taping system captured this recording, which is known as Conversation 442-021 of the White House Tapes.","locationCode":"EOB","recordingDevice":"Old Executive Office Building","latitudeEstimated":38.897567,"longitudeEstimated":-77.039147,"chronCode":"5.5","chronRelease":"Fifth Chronological Release: Part V","chronReleaseDate":"21-Aug-2013","aogpRelease":null,"aogpSegment":null,"lastModified":"2015-07-27T17:04:10.235Z","findingAid":"Conversation No. 442-021\n\nDate: June 4, 1973\nTime: 1:29 pm - 1:36 pm\nLocation: Executive Office Building\n\nThe President talked with Ronald L. Ziegler.\n\n       Richard Nixon Presidential Library and Museum, NARA Online Public Access Catalog Identifier: 597542\n\n[A transcript of the following portion of this conversation was initially prepared for the\nWatergate Special Prosecution Force (WSPF) and can be found in Record Group (RG) 460, Box\n172, “Transcript Prepared by the Impeachment Inquiry Staff for the House Judiciary\nCommittee…,” pages 34-37, 39 (.pdf pages 38-41, 43). The Nixon Presidential Materials Staff\nreviewed the transcript and made changes as necessary. This transcript has been reviewed under\nthe provisions of the Presidential Recordings and Materials Preservation Act of 1974 (PRMPA).\nThe National Archives does not guarantee its accuracy.]\n\n[See also Conversation No. 039-071]\n\n[Begin transcribed portion]\n\n[End transcribed portion]","filename":["442-021.mp3"],"tapeStart":"","tapeEnd":"","participantsList":["Nixon, Richard M. (President)","Ziegler, Ronald L."],"prevCode":"442-020","nextCode":"442-022","transcript":[{"start":0.35,"end":26.25,"text":"So, you're surviving today?"},{"start":26.27,"end":26.37,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":26.39,"end":26.77,"text":"You did great, man."},{"start":26.79,"end":26.89,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":26.91,"end":27.01,"text":"Good."},{"start":27.03,"end":27.13,"text":"Good."},{"start":27.15,"end":28.31,"text":"But then my office said that the men were pissed about it."},{"start":28.33,"end":28.43,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":28.45,"end":28.55,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":32.62,"end":55.42,"text":"Don't you have the list of the times that I saw you and so forth, how you did it?"},{"start":55.44,"end":57.24,"text":"Well, could you, would you mind taking a minute to state these, uh, these dates of change?"},{"start":57.26,"end":57.86,"text":"What happened in this quarter?"},{"start":57.88,"end":59.6,"text":"Uh, you know, the times that I saw this clock, I mean, are you sure you did it, Steve?"},{"start":61.95,"end":86.62,"text":"so that he doesn't have to go, I just don't see that we have to call out all of them, because I know he's got the job, he's got the risk, he's got the goddamn income, which is pretty much it."},{"start":86.64,"end":88.14,"text":"I've been just reconstructing my own O2 for like, maybe two or three years."},{"start":88.16,"end":89.76,"text":"And, uh, I can tell that there is absolutely no use in getting more electrolute."},{"start":89.78,"end":91.04,"text":"The first one was actually my own sucker, and now it's my baby."},{"start":92,"end":104.56,"text":"There was one in the 27th century, one in the 27th, one in the 28th, and two in the first."},{"start":104.58,"end":105.59,"text":"Absolutely nothing on federal, absolutely nothing."},{"start":107.09,"end":119.91,"text":"I mean, I don't know what the hell he's talking about."},{"start":119.93,"end":120.69,"text":"Maybe I haven't gotten into the March."},{"start":120.71,"end":122.75,"text":"You get the March 31st, that's the first time that he's seen me."},{"start":122.77,"end":124.17,"text":"I don't know about that, but he may have something in there."},{"start":124.19,"end":125.04,"text":"It was about Executive President Pat Gray."},{"start":125.06,"end":125.48,"text":"You know what I mean?"},{"start":125.5,"end":125.94,"text":"I think that was mine."},{"start":125.92,"end":149.22,"text":"trying to get some information on the buggy in my plane and checking the FBI leaks, which felt leaking, and he was doing that."},{"start":149.25,"end":150.49,"text":"I had a long conversation about judges and so forth and so on."},{"start":150.51,"end":151.27,"text":"But you know, a lot of stuff got done."},{"start":151.29,"end":152.99,"text":"So we're in the march."},{"start":152.97,"end":170.67,"text":"There's absolutely nothing we can't worry about in February."},{"start":173.54,"end":173.94,"text":"Nothing until March."},{"start":173.96,"end":176.82,"text":"If it's in March, I think we're pretty much on three-foot division."},{"start":176.84,"end":182.47,"text":"You know, he may have raised, for example, he may have raised the possibility that he might have talked about pulling 350 before the 21st."},{"start":182.49,"end":182.59,"text":"Yeah."},{"start":182.84,"end":205.17,"text":"Well, I don't know."},{"start":205.19,"end":205.65,"text":"I don't think he could."},{"start":205.67,"end":207.09,"text":"But he didn't say, but he didn't indicate that it was a great decision."},{"start":207.11,"end":208.02,"text":"But let me say, it was in the month of March."},{"start":208.04,"end":208.68,"text":"I don't know what that means."},{"start":208.7,"end":209.2,"text":"It's an entire statement."},{"start":209.22,"end":210.04,"text":"It's like a verse that says, we're right."},{"start":210.06,"end":210.82,"text":"It's the first time he ever said that."},{"start":212.69,"end":242.19,"text":"But I don't know what the hell they're always talking about."},{"start":244.52,"end":247.61,"text":"You should go."},{"start":247.63,"end":252.31,"text":"I have a good report."},{"start":252.33,"end":252.89,"text":"It's a very good idea."},{"start":252.91,"end":253.87,"text":"Good change of pace."},{"start":253.89,"end":254.56,"text":"Why don't we get you back?"},{"start":254.58,"end":255.22,"text":"You stay there while he's there."},{"start":263.25,"end":288.83,"text":"I think we have a pretty certain portfolio of teams out of that."},{"start":288.85,"end":289.27,"text":"That's a tough story."},{"start":289.29,"end":290.71,"text":"But, you know, we, you know, the president of that service is doing it."},{"start":290.73,"end":291.74,"text":"So, you know, that is my, the rest is my position."},{"start":293.57,"end":311.51,"text":"Okay, share that list with them."}],"aiSummary":{"text":"President Nixon and Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler met to discuss the preparation of a timeline concerning past meetings and activities, specifically focusing on potential interactions involving L. Patrick Gray. They reviewed internal records to determine the validity of claims regarding sensitive issues, including FBI leaks and presidential conversations. The primary objective was to establish a defensive narrative by narrowing the scope of relevant events to the month of March, effectively dismissing potential concerns from preceding months.","topics":["L. Patrick Gray","Watergate","FBI leaks","Timeline reconstruction","Public relations strategy"],"generatedAt":"2026-04-06T20:26:35.454Z"},"topicSlugs":["l-patrick-gray","watergate","fbi-leaks","timeline-reconstruction","public-relations-strategy"],"audioDurationSec":319,"audioFiles":[{"file":"442-021.mp3","bytes":10199040,"durationSec":318.57,"bitrate":256117,"missing":false}],"audioIsShared":false,"audioProbedAt":"2026-09-18T02:20:04.739Z","findingAidSource":"nixonlibrary.gov subject log (2024-05), reslice-v2","findingAidUpdatedAt":"2026-09-18T08:43:41.360Z","transcriptGapSeconds":185,"transcriptGapShare":0.58,"transcriptQuality":"incomplete","audio":["https://nixon.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/audio/442-021.mp3"],"url":"https://www.easynixon.org/tapes/442-021","nixonLibraryUrl":"https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/white-house-tapes/442/conversation-442-021","license":"Public domain (U.S. Government work). AI-generated fields (transcript, aiSummary) are provided as-is without warranty."}